IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-02-18
⏴ go to previous day
00:01:41 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
02:30:06 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
02:55:21 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
04:09:04 *** supermop has joined #openttd
04:23:07 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
04:35:21 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd
05:14:39 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
06:55:19 *** supermop has joined #openttd
08:13:33 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:15:10 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
08:50:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:51:03 <snadge> im about to dive into the code, and am looking for documnetation.. but how does the music engine work? is that a built in soft synth?
08:51:18 <snadge> im kinda hoping to override the output midi device
08:53:22 <snadge> LOL figured it out.. just used coolsoft midi mapper to change the default output device
08:53:48 <snadge> so now its the original score being played via a roland sc-880 ;)
08:54:07 <snadge> into sennheiser studio headphones
09:11:24 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> snadge: my first attempt would be the os/xxx_m.cpp files
09:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly they moved into some subdirectories in the past 10 years...
09:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> snadge: anyway, there should be an "extmidi" driver, which you can use to override via the command line
09:45:51 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd
10:04:33 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
10:04:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
10:05:02 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd
10:18:46 <andythenorth> bags won’t look like bags at TTD scale, they’ll look like blobs
10:21:30 *** skapazzo has joined #openttd
10:22:50 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
10:25:16 <Alberth> platforms don't have enough room for proper piles, imho
10:25:47 <Alberth> I prefer stacks, gives more variation
10:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make whole stacks of bags
10:38:35 <Alberth> :o steel finishing plant, how nice
10:39:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: probably I should
10:40:07 <andythenorth> I need sacks for cargos like wool also
10:40:12 <andythenorth> and same sprites would work
10:40:28 <andythenorth> recolouring the bulk cargo would be easier :)
10:45:58 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1037
10:45:59 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
10:46:14 <Alberth> you're clustering the quarries?
10:47:02 <andythenorth> I am +/-0 to clustering
10:47:09 <andythenorth> but players seem to like it :|
10:47:49 <Alberth> it avoids evenly distribution across the entire map, somewhat
10:48:13 <Alberth> instead you get a few points with heaps of sand and stones
10:48:24 <Alberth> moooaaar trainz needed :)
10:56:02 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
10:58:18 <andythenorth> ha, bulk cement doesn’t show up on concrete CHIPS tiles :)
11:01:32 <andythenorth> maybe I should split tyres from vehicle parts
11:01:41 <andythenorth> then they could be shown as cargo….
11:07:08 <Alberth> perhaps you're missing a "must supply all input cargoes" boolean parameter, for "hard cargo" players :p
11:08:03 <Alberth> or produce more if the balance is more even :p
11:08:31 <andythenorth> sadly, the strings are all broken :)
11:08:44 <andythenorth> fixing them is both a code problem and a design problem :)
11:09:04 <andythenorth> that parameter might be a valid one
11:09:31 <andythenorth> “Require all input cargos: never | some industries only | always”
11:10:16 <andythenorth> for the industry text, ‘delivered within last three months’ is too long
11:11:30 <andythenorth> ✓ would probably be sufficient :P
11:11:57 <andythenorth> or two lists: Delivered / Required
11:12:23 <andythenorth> the ‘three months’ is redundant detail? o_O
11:12:49 <Alberth> delivered last quarter
11:13:06 * andythenorth thinks strip it right down
11:14:07 <Alberth> ha, also have a parameter "process in equal quantities"
11:15:08 <Alberth> and produce more, to tease people into playing it :p
11:15:58 * andythenorth wonders if the ratios are just over-thinking it
11:16:05 <andythenorth> but 3 into 8 doesn’t go neatly :)
11:16:56 <Alberth> you need something to steer the player in delivering the "right" cargoes
11:18:05 <Alberth> balancing input would open a new way of playing
11:18:21 <Alberth> although you then also need somewhat stock-piling-ish
11:18:40 <Alberth> but less rigid than ecs
11:19:33 <andythenorth> I think the old display of the ratios guided ‘right’ cargos?
11:19:46 <andythenorth> not sure the new text is better
11:19:54 <Alberth> for me it did, generally
11:20:03 <andythenorth> I only started the new text to reduce translation maintenance
11:20:31 <Alberth> you could do "needed", "recommended", and "accepted" or so
11:20:45 <andythenorth> hmm, if I revert to old, it will be a big manual merge :D
11:21:13 <Alberth> this is why branches can be useful :p
11:22:47 <Alberth> the displayed string is just wrong thus?
11:23:02 <andythenorth> the ‘not producing’ is wrong
11:23:11 <andythenorth> the ‘required’ / ‘delivered’ are accurate
11:24:48 <Alberth> seems that way indeed
11:25:38 <andythenorth> ‘Current efficient: zero’ also wrong
11:33:19 <andythenorth> use the PIPE grf :)
11:33:50 <andythenorth> PIPE should be redone as NRT, and Wolf01 should finish the ‘no crossings’ patch that we said wasn’t needed :)
11:34:02 <andythenorth> ‘no crossings’ would be useful for a PIPE hack on NRT
11:34:09 <Wolf01> The patch *is* finished
11:35:32 <andythenorth> Alberth: you’re using the Dutch translation in FIRS?
11:35:44 <Wolf01> I had the idea to add a "no bridges" flag too (to disable $roadtype bridges, not bridges over $roadtype") some time ago, and I think it would come handy to supermop
11:36:08 <Wolf01> *bridges AND tunnels, that is
11:38:53 <Alberth> andythenorth: oh, sorry, no I don't, I use dutch town names only
11:39:05 <andythenorth> is stripped to just ‘required'
11:39:10 <andythenorth> should be savegame safe
11:39:53 <Alberth> you're tempting me to break the newgrf-update rule eh? :)
11:40:07 <andythenorth> just don’t post your bug report in the forum when it breaks :P
11:40:29 <andythenorth> I probably get about 99% success rate on newgrf updates
11:40:43 <andythenorth> and 1 in 100 will crash openttd, or unrecoverably destroy my game
11:40:58 <Alberth> yeah, but you know exactly what you changed :)
11:41:14 <andythenorth> so this industry window text remains pretty unsatisfactory
11:41:44 <andythenorth> it repeats the required cargos, and is generally hard to understand
11:46:45 <andythenorth> I’ve wanted the ‘needed’ / ‘delivered’ text for years
11:47:08 <andythenorth> to see quickly whether cargos are getting delivered frequently
11:47:22 <andythenorth> but it’s confusing unless you really understand FIRS
11:47:36 <andythenorth> does ‘delivered’ mean you can’t deliver more?
11:47:42 <andythenorth> does the industry have ‘enough’?
11:47:51 <andythenorth> maybe it has closed the stockpile? etc
11:51:33 * andythenorth wondering if we have any glyphs that could be made red / green
11:51:42 <andythenorth> it’s just a guide, not an instruction
11:51:57 <andythenorth> it’s like the red/green in the vehicle list for profit
11:52:32 <andythenorth> the ‘required: [cargos]’ is also repeating the ‘cargo waiting to be processed'
11:52:33 <Alberth> red/green is horrible for people that are colour blind
11:52:55 <andythenorth> ideal would be two different glyphs
11:53:04 <andythenorth> presumably I could extend openttd base font?
11:53:53 <Alberth> I wonder how script pages do that
11:58:38 * andythenorth patches nml to test
11:58:59 <Alberth> I got those from openttd source, and not from nml, iirc
11:59:26 <Alberth> but some were dropped, as they were not useful, iirc
11:59:37 <andythenorth> maybe newgrf docs are outdated
12:01:40 <Alberth> src/table/strgen_tables.h has a checkmark, but no cross, it seems
12:01:55 <andythenorth> newgrf docs say “X mark"
12:02:08 <Alberth> euhm, it's just below the check mark :p
12:02:18 <andythenorth> I didn’t see it until the 3rd time I looked :P
12:02:20 <Alberth> I should try reading :p
12:04:26 <Alberth> just keep the text, write 2 lines of text about in the do-not-readme, and you're done :)
12:05:07 <andythenorth> it has become a project now :)
12:19:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: bit ugly, but…more sense? ^
12:24:28 <Alberth> would work, what does "Required:" mean
12:24:42 <andythenorth> I am trying to simplify further
12:24:48 * andythenorth waits for compile
12:26:26 <Alberth> "(ok)" would be a textual alternative
12:27:09 <Alberth> "Recently delivered:" instead of "Required:" ?
12:27:23 <Alberth> or "Delivered in last three months:"
12:27:50 <Alberth> do you have optional cargoes?
12:28:37 <andythenorth> too much detail imho
12:29:05 <Alberth> those do not count in gung-ho etc, I guess
12:31:48 <Alberth> I wonder if that really needs a list of 3 lines, but fair enough
12:32:48 <andythenorth> well I can’t control the ‘cargo waiting to be processed’ text :)
12:32:57 <andythenorth> which is pointless here
12:34:06 <Alberth> .. within three moinths: Iron Ore ✔ Coke ✔ Stone (lacking)"
12:34:27 <andythenorth> I’ll patch nml and see what the x looks like
12:34:49 <Alberth> yeah, I know about the stupid text
12:36:05 <andythenorth> stupid text is fixable :)
12:36:17 <andythenorth> just one of those too-many things that it’s hoped frosch will do :)
12:37:09 <Alberth> yeah, but so far the text is still winning :p
12:37:22 <andythenorth> I am going to start patching more things :P
12:37:39 <andythenorth> but not while so many newgrfs are in unreleasable state
12:39:12 <andythenorth> with 2 cargos (and this industry has some extra info text)
12:44:45 <Alberth> "Produces stuff." isn't terribly relevant
12:45:18 <Alberth> add it to the documentation :)
12:45:38 <andythenorth> x is large font for some reason :P
12:46:53 <Alberth> this may also be the reason why checkmark and cross were dropped
12:46:55 <andythenorth> can’t use {small} in this window
12:47:05 <andythenorth> there’s no way to reset back to normal
12:47:31 <andythenorth> was it frosch who wanted to replace all string handling with some text framework? o_O
12:47:45 <Alberth> I would not be surprised
12:48:32 <Alberth> zuu perhaps, he tried to make clickable town names and so on
12:48:46 <Alberth> maybe that even works
12:48:57 <andythenorth> it does in some places
12:58:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: you think I should drop the ‘extra info’ text that some industries have?
13:03:23 <andythenorth> it’s only used at 13 out of 82 industries
13:03:30 <andythenorth> answer is probably self-evident :)
13:20:10 *** maciozo has joined #openttd
13:25:03 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
13:25:50 <Alberth> it's nice side-information, perhaps modellers like it
13:26:17 <Alberth> I typically just read the the accepted cargoes and often the ratios too
13:26:41 <andythenorth> I’ve deleted it, but kept the strings locally in case I reuse them in docs
13:26:50 <Alberth> for more experienced players, they can probably draw the cargo flow from their head
13:27:02 <andythenorth> even I can’t do that :)
13:27:09 <andythenorth> I have to use the cargo flow window a lot
13:27:50 <Alberth> yeah, the text is definitely useful, I think even the picture links you paste here would be fun to add
13:28:24 <Alberth> you play all economies, and your focus is not playing :p
13:29:34 <Alberth> if you play the one favourite economy every day, you know what to connect within a month :)
13:38:10 * andythenorth has deleted all the extra text
13:47:58 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
14:04:20 <andythenorth> bundles won’t build, because I patched nml
14:08:50 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> x is large font for some reason :P <- to catch more attention
14:10:18 * andythenorth trying to figure out where the glyphs come from :P
14:10:27 <andythenorth> scaling or drawing an x can’t be hard
14:12:21 <andythenorth> that thread is weird though
14:13:13 <Wolf01> I have a nasty problem with eb forum, I can't change pages on topics, it happen for you too?
14:14:49 <andythenorth> seems to be webkit
14:15:01 <andythenorth> I tried digging through the JS calls to find the problem
14:15:08 <andythenorth> but eh, I am not good at JS debugging
14:15:26 <Wolf01> I was, but now I forgot everything about js :P
14:15:27 <andythenorth> they claim it’s contention on the DB
14:15:32 <andythenorth> but I would be surprised by that
14:16:07 <Wolf01> I change page then hit F5, it works
14:16:25 <Wolf01> So I thing it's just shitty js
14:16:31 <andythenorth> it’s something in the fancy scroll-fade crap they applied
14:16:53 <andythenorth> _could_ be DB locks failing to clear, because they might have to lock if you’re editing a reply
14:16:58 <andythenorth> but that sounds like piss-poor design to me
14:17:00 <Wolf01> Also on edge is broken beyond help
14:17:18 <andythenorth> all my favourite forums except tt-forums have gone crap recently
14:17:31 <andythenorth> and it’s not just because I’m 39
14:17:55 <andythenorth> PHP-BB is just more reliable and has less shit
14:18:30 <Wolf01> People want only fancy things with glitter, then make loads of bug reports
14:19:01 <Wolf01> I still have a SMF 1.x
14:19:58 <Wolf01> Which works like a charm, after a fix for the config file which got emptied instead of a cache file
14:38:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd
14:58:28 <supermop> who wants some cobblestone stams?
14:58:54 <supermop> also current sv goal: Metal Valley
14:59:48 <supermop> well done enough I might set the version to 0.1.0 instead of just 0
15:12:41 <supermop> repo is a folder on my google drive
15:15:02 <supermop> hmm this computer has a new hog than nrt hog on it
15:15:48 <andythenorth> you need the NRT branch?
15:16:10 <supermop> no I have it here, it just doesn't show up to select for a new game
15:16:16 <supermop> need to delete 1.2.0
15:17:30 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:19:26 <frosch123> "What has happened to the airport in this game, i love this game but why you have changed the style of the airport.Plz tell me how to fix it because i want that international airport not this muddy airport. What to do." <- anyone interested in moving to first level support?
15:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: there is a hidden setting to show all grf versions, not just the newest
15:20:26 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: I vaugely recalled that but was faster to close game and delete grf than look it up
15:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> just open the console and type "list_settings grf"?
15:22:16 <andythenorth> frosch123: I’ll trade you that for supporting FIRS? o_O
15:22:34 <andythenorth> also where is that?
15:23:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: email
15:23:36 * andythenorth never checks email, so I would be no good there
15:27:51 <supermop> having trouble getting a map that makes the ideal quaint port for a screenshot
15:28:34 <Alberth> you can sculpture the land yourself :)
15:29:42 <andythenorth> supermop you know about ‘newgame’ in console?
15:30:00 <supermop> i no almost nothing about the console
15:30:11 <supermop> including how to spell know
15:35:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: Alberth: we did not add any of the glyphs to nml/eints, because they do not scale with the font selection. there were opinions to remove them completely, like we removed the setxy stuff in the past
15:37:48 <andythenorth> I like the ticks, but I had to remove them to placate coop Jenkins
15:38:08 <andythenorth> the ticks are neater
15:39:19 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
15:39:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
15:39:22 *** Progman has joined #openttd
15:40:57 <andythenorth> cargo label for Vehicle Bodies?
15:41:03 <andythenorth> Vehicle Parts is VPTS
15:41:51 <frosch123> the plural S is silly :)
15:41:58 <andythenorth> also that will now break my savegame :)
15:45:48 * andythenorth has had 3-4 days of OpenTTD coding time :)
15:45:53 <andythenorth> it’s fun, when you get a run at it
15:46:01 <andythenorth> usually much interruptions
15:51:26 <Wolf01> I think I have some spare time today to work on that fantastic function for checking the availability of road/railtype
15:58:15 <Wolf01> First: frosch123 you asked for a function to be used in gui, commands, and scripts, should the scope be passed as parameter or I must figure it out?
16:00:03 <frosch123> what is the scope needed for?
16:00:28 <Wolf01> Could be used to decide whether check on the company or not
16:00:40 <frosch123> i would pass the company as parameter
16:01:04 <frosch123> and not use _current_company, _local_company or other globals
16:03:32 *** Progman has joined #openttd
16:06:52 <andythenorth> and now the great FIRS Extreme rework begins :P
16:07:02 * andythenorth regrets this in advance
16:09:27 <frosch123> make a browser-based puzzle game
16:09:56 <frosch123> build an economy with <N cargos and <M industries
16:10:49 <Wolf01> IsCompanyBuildableVehicleType() <- there are any not buildable vehicle types?
16:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds a bit like that "design an airport" minigame from ages ago, for the newairports that never happened
16:11:09 <frosch123> Wolf01: disaster and effect
16:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: factory smoke, steam puffs, submarine, ufo, ...
16:20:56 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
16:22:43 <Wolf01> Mmmh, one thing I didn't consider, is it possible to disable a roadtype for a climate?
16:23:25 <Wolf01> There's a check in the dropdown build code "if (!HasBit(e->info.climates, _settings_game.game_creation.landscape)) continue;" but I don't know how effective it could be
16:24:38 <Wolf01> I copied it straight from rail_gui
16:24:57 <frosch123> that checks vehicle availability
16:25:49 <Wolf01> Yep, but it's for ROAD and TRAM, not for HAUL ELRD etc
16:27:40 <frosch123> that is just a line afterwards
16:27:46 <frosch123> first check basetype, then check subtype
16:32:09 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
16:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so wtf is up with my ISP lately...
16:33:02 <frosch123> they have trouble providing the cpu power required for filtering and logging
16:33:17 <frosch123> disable https and it may improve
16:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: NFO-wise you can check climate in an action6/7/9/D and skip the definiton of the roadtype. that's probably an if-block in NML
16:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: for the game that would mean the roadtype simply doesn't exist
16:36:47 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
16:36:47 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1049
16:36:47 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth
16:36:57 <Wolf01> I would like to move the loops outside the dropdown building code
16:38:35 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
16:39:06 <Wolf01> Where's better to place them? vechicle.cpp or road.cpp/rail.cpp?
16:39:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd
16:39:50 <frosch123> VehicleExistsForRoadType/RailType or something
16:40:01 <frosch123> possibly with a "now/somewhen" parameter
16:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a vehicle_cmd.cpp?
16:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly groundvehicle or something
16:41:13 <frosch123> yes, but there is no equivalent function for ships or aircraft, and even road/rail would take different parameters
16:41:43 <frosch123> and the other road/rail functions are also in road/rail.cpp or roadveh/train.cpp
16:49:53 <supermop> ok lets see some steam tram screenshots in this month's steam themed screenshot of the month topic
16:52:00 <andythenorth> supermop: I should merge docklands into CHIPS :)
16:52:40 <frosch123> Wolf01: only_existing=true does not consider vehicle introduction and date-based roadtype introduction
16:52:42 <supermop> worst practices andy
16:53:04 <supermop> soon there will be only one andy.grf
16:53:15 <supermop> with everything included
16:53:16 <frosch123> i think only_existing=true requires a companyid, since vehicle availability is based on companies or so
16:53:47 <andythenorth> seems to me the types you’ve added are a facet of stations :)
16:53:56 <andythenorth> stick em in the station grf :)
16:54:05 * andythenorth knows it’s wrong, but eh
16:54:09 <frosch123> "use ground sprite from neighbour tiles" :)
16:56:08 <supermop> next need to make log flumes as roadtype
16:56:23 <frosch123> anyway, finally some dirt road :)
16:57:12 <andythenorth> I should make heavy haul vehicles compatible with it
16:57:15 <andythenorth> but they sink in
16:57:33 <supermop> frosch123: I'm waiting to see if andrew350 is going to split arrs into asphalt/dirt/cobble
16:57:37 <frosch123> add a refit option for bigger tires
16:57:43 <supermop> if not I might do it myself
16:58:05 <supermop> next we need heqs and egrvts forks
16:58:24 <supermop> and trolley busses in ogfx+rvs
16:59:04 <supermop> more rvs = more people making road types
17:01:49 <andythenorth> what’s left for NRT? o_O
17:02:03 <frosch123> and what wolf is doing
17:05:57 *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:15:00 * andythenorth looks at nogo for railtypes
17:22:49 *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:25:56 <Wolf01> <frosch123> i think only_existing=true requires a companyid, since vehicle availability is based on companies or so <- something like this? HasBit(c->avail_roadtypes[rtid.basetype], rtid.subtype)
17:26:58 <Wolf01> But it's not really for the single vehicle, it is for the entire roadsubtype
17:27:19 <Wolf01> So at least one vehicle should exist for that, or should exist in future
17:35:28 <frosch123> i thought that is what "only_existing" was about
17:41:12 <Wolf01> I think you mean the second part, that one which does the actual job of filling the dropdown list
17:42:17 *** mescalito has joined #openttd
17:42:30 <Wolf01> I think I must add both loops in the function and then loop the result again in the places where is needed
17:43:09 <Wolf01> Loop or check for set bit
17:57:14 <andythenorth> ^ could make that weird pseudo-primary
17:57:28 <andythenorth> as Haber process makes fertiliser from air
17:58:06 <andythenorth> it could produce x / month without any input
18:09:06 <frosch123> i still do not understand what "only_existing" is supposed to do
18:10:02 <frosch123> you can replace the second loop with a single "&", right?
18:10:27 <frosch123> available_roadsubtypes = known_roadtype & company->avail_roadtypes[rtid.basetype]
18:10:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:11:02 <andythenorth> why does FIRS have min_cargo_distr set to 5? o_O
18:11:03 <frosch123> but at the same time i Company::avail_roadtypes is already a subset of known_roadtype
18:11:09 * andythenorth has no recollection
18:11:17 <frosch123> so you could just return Company::avail_roadtypes directly
18:11:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's the default value?
18:11:37 <Wolf01> But it doesn't have future ones
18:13:11 <andythenorth> frosch123: is that definitely the default? Can’t figure out how to search for it in ottd src
18:13:20 <andythenorth> I can stop declaring it 72 times if it’s default :P
18:18:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: there is no "default", it's just "what most do"
18:18:51 <frosch123> i think forests have like 24 or so
18:20:12 <andythenorth> seems FIRS has mostly 5, sometimes 1 or 2
18:20:30 <andythenorth> probably some ancient reason
18:22:12 <frosch123> sometimes players get confused by high values
18:22:17 <frosch123> like the 30 of the forest
18:22:34 <frosch123> but in general i am unsure why that property exists in the first place :)
18:22:49 <andythenorth> the FIRS values might be an artefact of the automated conversion from nfo
18:52:06 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
18:55:46 <andythenorth> found a reproducible bug in adjacent station detection :)
18:57:32 <Snail> looks like I could compile OTTD with Sierra
18:57:54 <Snail> after using Tej’s patch (from the forums)
19:00:08 <andythenorth> ach the error window doesn’t open near my station
19:00:13 <andythenorth> so the screen record missed it
19:00:37 <andythenorth> it’s probably a feature
19:01:29 <andythenorth> adjacent check doesn’t apply when dragging from an existing tile
19:01:43 <andythenorth> actually quite neat, just never noticed it before
19:01:52 <Snail> andythenorth: nope… the executable file I created just crashed
19:02:06 <frosch123> Wolf01: if (e->company_avail != (CompanyMask)-1) continue; <- that line also needs the "any_date" check
19:02:12 <andythenorth> Snail: any message?
19:02:25 <Snail> looks like it wants libpng16
19:02:37 <Snail> but I need to keep 14, otherwise grfcodec crashes
19:03:08 <Snail> unless there’s a new version of grfcodec?
19:03:48 <Wolf01> "if (!any_date && e->company_avail != (CompanyMask)-1) continue;" ?
19:04:32 <andythenorth> Snail: I have libpng15 it seems
19:05:31 <Wolf01> Also, is it _date the right variable? I didn't seem to find any other suitable
19:06:06 <frosch123> according to AcceptEnginePreview, it is
19:08:59 <andythenorth> Snail: seems my macports has libpng16
19:09:08 <andythenorth> dunno which one is actually used by grfcodec
19:10:46 <michi_cc> Snail: You can pass --with-png=.... to the configure script to get it to use another version, but I don't know the pkg-config command to give (configure --help will show the arg format)
19:11:47 <Snail> michi_cc: I will try to reconfigure now
19:12:12 <Snail> andythenorth: just do “ port installed libpng "
19:12:17 <Snail> it will tell you which one is active
19:12:30 <andythenorth> libpng @1.6.21_0+universal (active)
19:13:07 <andythenorth> libpng15 looks like it’s Apple supplied
19:14:23 <andythenorth> but Security Update 2016-002 upgraded to libpng16, because <16 has a vuln
19:14:47 <andythenorth> and I have installed that, so eh
19:15:25 <Alberth> michi_cc: grfcodec has no configure script :)
19:18:08 <Wolf01> Ok, the dropdown seem to work like before
19:18:17 <Snail> andythenorth: and grfcodec works for you?
19:18:50 <andythenorth> I am digging through libpngs
19:19:01 <andythenorth> libpng15 looks like the remnants of a brew install
19:21:28 <Snail> now I activated libpng16
19:21:40 <Snail> and it crashed because libpng14 is missing...
19:21:48 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd
19:22:42 <Alberth> the joys of having exactly one png lib :p
19:23:32 <Snail> alright, I’ll search for a new version of grfcodec
19:26:55 <Wolf01> frosch123, I published the changes as "can-build-vehicle-infrastructure", the new function is used just in the dropdown code, but I'll change the other function too
19:27:28 <Wolf01> Also version in title now shows nice japanese chars :P
19:28:06 * Wolf01 -> shower -> dinner -> lego batman movie
19:31:01 <Wolf01> Meh... last (and only) projection for today: 19:40
19:31:29 <Wolf01> Still do the first 2 steps
19:32:49 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
19:37:24 <Alberth> hmm, not interested, apparently :p
19:40:14 <Alberth> frosch123: started hacking to get the default "cargo waiting" message from the industry gui https://paste.openttdcoop.org/po9hcsvsy is what I have now, as you can see in the no_waiting.png link, it now displays the default industry text. Maybe that should be removed too?
19:41:36 <Snail> andythenorth: it works :)
19:41:37 <Alberth> under the assumption that everybody has set that bit to 0, I think it's compatible with current newgrfs
19:42:08 <frosch123> why would you want to remove the other text?
19:42:30 <Alberth> give newgrf author a clean sheet to start with
19:42:53 <frosch123> then that should be done via the text callback, if the author already uses that one
19:42:54 <Alberth> eg andy has that list too together with other text
19:43:30 <Alberth> ah, good point, let me try to find that :)
19:44:28 <frosch123> but as always, ideas change on an hourly level :)
19:50:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:50:39 * andythenorth got disconnected :P
19:50:46 <andythenorth> really odd wifi performance here
19:51:56 <andythenorth> Snail: so it works? On Sierra?
19:52:26 <andythenorth> Alberth: that looks promising :)
19:52:34 <Snail> it did give me a zillion of warning messages, but the game seems to work fine
19:53:20 <Alberth> is there any large advantage to having an explicit handling of such a case rather than just give the author full freedom?
19:54:59 <andythenorth> it would suit my case to have full freedom
19:55:12 <andythenorth> means I’ll have to recreate the default ‘Production last month’ stuff
19:55:18 <andythenorth> and I might run out of text stack
19:57:24 <Alberth> and that doesn't happen with CB 37 then?
19:57:52 <andythenorth> dunno, haven’t tried, but less likely
19:58:08 * andythenorth has cb 37 docs open right now
19:58:21 <andythenorth> for the FIRS case, I could push ‘supplied’ or ‘not supplied’ with cb 37
19:58:38 <andythenorth> and if we could lose the sillly ‘cargo waiting to be processed’ text, then my case is met
19:58:54 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
19:59:21 <andythenorth> cargo subtypes make me twitch, they are a bad idea that has leaked into too many places :D
19:59:25 <andythenorth> but it would work
20:01:26 <andythenorth> Alberth: what’s the implementation? Pure hack?
20:02:00 <Alberth> I think it's clean, I use bit 17 of industry behavior, which is currently not used (in the code)
20:03:16 <Alberth> "suppress 'cargo to be processed' text" flag
20:03:29 <andythenorth> currently, the ‘waiting’ text appears if bit 1 or 2 are set in prop 21, which is assumptive
20:03:42 <andythenorth> it assumes only gradual processing :P
20:04:33 <Alberth> ok, we can call it the "not gradual processing display flag" :)
20:05:03 <andythenorth> oh that is your proposal
20:06:15 <Alberth> yep, and I use bit 18, thus :p
20:06:41 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
20:07:43 <frosch123> personally i consider the ecs method way better than firs
20:07:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: would the flag be an acceptable solution? Or would the cb be prefeable?
20:07:56 <andythenorth> yes, I am going to adopt cb 37
20:08:16 <andythenorth> I was slightly avoiding it because the ‘waiting to be processed’ text makes me sad :)
20:08:18 <frosch123> from a gui consistency view i would always put the input cargos to the top, with some cargo related info next to it
20:08:28 <frosch123> firs for some reason always does some wall of text at the bottom
20:08:49 <andythenorth> well the top is full of useless text :)
20:09:36 <andythenorth> and the repeating of two cargos at the end is obviously silly
20:09:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: i don't care about flag or callback. it just should be a solution that make sense, and does not break after 2 weeks
20:10:00 <frosch123> iirc you already broke the wall-of-text callback in the past when running out of textstack
20:10:16 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
20:10:18 <andythenorth> I had to redesign my text, is fine
20:10:26 <andythenorth> the thing about the flag, it’s adding more stuff to fix a design flaw, no?
20:10:45 <andythenorth> but I can’t think of any appropriate way to fix root cause
20:10:52 <frosch123> so, i stick to my opinion: the "supplies", "more required" message should be next to the cargo at the top
20:11:04 <frosch123> putting it into the wall of text is bad from a gui pov, and also bad from a coding pov
20:11:05 <andythenorth> I’m converted to that view
20:12:02 <Alberth> In ECS, the top 4 lines are the 'to be processed' lines, and "Production this month:" etc is added, right?
20:12:59 <andythenorth> Alberth: ‘to be processed’ and ‘production this month’ are both default
20:13:07 <frosch123> Alberth: "production this month" is standard, you also see that in the no_waiting screenshot
20:13:10 <andythenorth> ‘Animals:’ and ‘Remain:’ are added
20:13:23 <Alberth> ah, ok, I am there :)
20:13:45 <frosch123> ecs only has debug info at the bottom :)
20:13:57 <Alberth> it's not debug info :p
20:14:08 <frosch123> it always look to me as if :)
20:14:19 <Alberth> I reported it once as such, and it was explained it was vital information about the industry :p
20:15:10 <andythenorth> and then I made FIRS :P
20:15:21 <andythenorth> ECS is nice, but not for me :)
20:15:24 <andythenorth> I don’t have enough brain
20:15:57 <Alberth> I can see the advantage of a line for each cargo, the question is whether we should enforce that, imho
20:16:38 <frosch123> the wall of text makes stuff inconsistent, and is very limited wrt. amount of parameters
20:17:13 <Alberth> and so the simple patch explodes :p
20:17:49 <frosch123> Alberth: the funny thing is, i think, andy is happy if we just change the string "Cargo to be processed" to "Requires:"
20:18:15 <andythenorth> spurious ‘amount waiting’ values still there then :)
20:18:34 <Alberth> yeah, silly "0" values :)
20:18:48 <frosch123> and possibly the other lines to "Vehicle parts (0 crates waiting)"
20:18:49 <Alberth> maybe you should add stockpiling :p
20:19:01 <frosch123> with a cb flag to disable display of the "waiting" part (per cargo)
20:19:26 <frosch123> Alberth: i think andy actually has stockpiling, he just does not display it
20:19:50 <frosch123> sure, you have lots of "cargo delivered within 3 months", so you stockpile for 3 months
20:21:03 <Alberth> I once coded to take 1/16 of the cargo with a minimum of 1 (or 0 if there is no cargo at all) for yetis, and that had the nice effect that cargo is slowly provided at the output
20:22:26 <Alberth> it's also stockpiling, but it has no explicit maximum
20:22:57 <Alberth> although you can't throw 255 every production cycle at it either
20:24:02 <Alberth> hmm, should be 24K-ish, missing something there
20:44:52 <Alberth> "Do results 0800 to 0CFF make any sense?" <-- I think no, or at least not until a valid use case
20:48:04 *** supermop has joined #openttd
20:51:25 <supermop> not a bug, but a headache:
20:51:51 <supermop> I cannot convert town owned ROAD to ELRD
20:52:11 <supermop> so seems like trolley busses are going to be DOA
20:52:31 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
20:52:58 <frosch123> there is a TODO in the source about upgrading town roads :)
20:53:15 <andythenorth> results 0800 to 0CFF make sense if the header text (‘cargo waiting…’) can also be specified
20:53:24 <andythenorth> but otherwise it’s weirdly flexible
20:53:38 <andythenorth> author can provide anything, except it must follow the heading :P
20:54:51 <supermop> maybe nrt grf can specify in addition to a list of powered compatible types, types for which a conversion is a non-invasive upgrade
20:55:17 <Alberth> andythenorth: grfcodec paved the way for that :p
20:55:38 <supermop> specifically allow what to upgrade town owned roads to, so cannot grief by 'upgrading everything to a dirt road, or a road that disallows house growth
20:56:10 <frosch123> Alberth: isn't 800-cff just what andy wants? display no amount, but display "supplied"
20:56:43 <Alberth> I read it as "free text line for each cargo"
20:57:20 <frosch123> yeah, with some fine-print you can turn it into anything :)
20:57:21 <Alberth> so you can put down anything there
20:57:31 <andythenorth> I read it as any arbitrary string
20:57:36 <frosch123> wrt. the text at top, imho it should just say "requires" in all cases
20:58:16 <andythenorth> ‘Requires: 0 tonnes of grain’ ?
20:58:18 <Alberth> Requires: Steel (100 max) ?
20:59:06 <Alberth> not even sure if the industry has 100, or you must supply 100
21:00:42 <andythenorth> silly industry text :)
21:00:44 <Alberth> coding your own stockpile text is going to be tricky :p
21:03:20 <andythenorth> FIRS one looks good :)
21:06:44 <Alberth> remove the colon after "Requires"
21:07:41 <Alberth> what is D00-D3FF textref stack 100...105?
21:08:02 <Alberth> newgrf supplied string with newgrf supplied stacks?
21:10:37 <Alberth> 0800-0CFF is not completely free text I see now, you always print the cargo first. Alright, that could work
21:11:27 <Alberth> would take a lot of work to make a good looking different layout from that
21:13:09 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd
21:13:25 *** matt11235_ has joined #openttd
21:16:25 <frosch123> ok, who wants to code it?
21:17:30 <Alberth> unless you're bored :)
21:19:06 <frosch123> i was looking to a third breakfast
21:19:22 <frosch123> not sure whether it should be called dinner
21:19:29 <frosch123> but definitely not lunch
21:19:42 <LordAro> if it's with milk in a bowl, probably breakfast
21:20:14 <frosch123> it's not midnight snack yet
21:25:56 <andythenorth> breakfast is dinner in my house twice a week
21:26:01 <andythenorth> and I am definitely a grown up
21:28:12 <LordAro> i've had hardly any food in the house for days
21:28:21 <LordAro> need to go shopping..
21:28:30 <supermop> what should I do with roads now?
21:28:46 <andythenorth> play test them :)
21:28:53 <andythenorth> half of newgrf is playtesting
21:29:01 <andythenorth> half is posting here
21:29:07 <andythenorth> the actual coding is minimal
21:29:27 <supermop> need trolley trucks and dmu trams
21:31:27 <supermop> is heqs nml and gpl?
21:31:43 <frosch123> heqs is nfo, but gpl
21:31:59 <andythenorth> it’s a winning combo
21:32:05 <andythenorth> you now get to convert it to nml :)
21:33:05 <supermop> maybe ill look at ogfx+ or egrvts first
21:33:31 <frosch123> i think egrvts is nfo as well
21:34:27 <supermop> do you think a horse pulls a wagon faster on dirt or cobblestone?
21:34:48 <supermop> dirt seems more comfortable for the horse but harder for the wheels
21:35:01 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
21:35:07 <andythenorth> I have cobblestones outside my office, hard on wheels
21:35:44 <supermop> make it dependent on days since last rainfall
21:35:47 <frosch123> dirt is not hard on wheel, wheels are hard on dirt :p
21:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you missed the lesson in physics where they explained that forces always equally apply both ways
21:37:11 <andythenorth> you don’t fall through the floor because the floor pushes back
21:37:15 * andythenorth has a book about it
21:38:37 <frosch123> what if the floor only acts as multiplier for the centrigual forces?
21:38:57 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: now you have to complani that there are no centrigual forces, only centripedel or so
21:39:36 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
21:40:10 <supermop> the concern is, DIRT having lower speed than cobble for trucks, but higher speed for horses and Subaru imprezas
21:40:55 <andythenorth> edge cases are mostly known and calculated for, unless there is massive innovation
21:41:09 <andythenorth> whereas corner cases are combinatorial, and push beyond the parameters allowed for in the edge cases
21:43:28 <supermop> has the same Italian truck photo I posted the other day
21:43:35 <supermop> so that's where we all saw it before
21:44:47 * andythenorth actually watches an F video
21:45:09 <andythenorth> the waves of flying stuff looks cool
21:46:16 <supermop> I wonder if it is faster to find out from this guy inactive from december if his set is gpl
21:46:28 <supermop> or to just make my own trolleybi
22:00:34 <andythenorth> is not in the nml docs :)
22:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it was removed, afaik
22:01:24 <andythenorth> it’s used in FIRS, dunno what it does
22:01:50 * andythenorth is trying to remove warnings about broken translation langs
22:02:28 <andythenorth> “Discard next word from stack”
22:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause> {SKIP} is a parameter that is ignored, like when you have two strings "{A} {B} {C}" and "{A} {C}", you can pass both the same parameters A,B,C if you change the second one to "{A} {SKIP} {C}"
22:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> means you can reuse the same code to push the parameters to the stack
22:05:29 <andythenorth> it’s present in nml
22:05:34 <andythenorth> might just be missing from docs
22:05:41 * andythenorth can’t fix, can’t log in to wiki
22:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be under hidden/deprecated features
22:13:16 <andythenorth> wiki search turns up nothing
22:14:21 <frosch123> it was removed from ottd lang files, since it is pointless there
22:14:32 <frosch123> nfo/nml still need it, because of the text stack
22:16:41 * andythenorth wonders why it was missing from lots of FIRS lang translations
22:17:13 <frosch123> {SKIP} is pretty pointless in translation
22:17:24 <frosch123> possibly eints drops it from translations
22:17:29 <frosch123> and only allows it in base language
22:17:51 <andythenorth> well nml complains about mismatched control codes
22:18:07 * andythenorth will see whether all my fixes are removed by eints tomorrow
22:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, how can skip be "pointless" in translations? certainly the order of parameters matters
22:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and possibly translations need parameters that english doesn't need
22:46:47 <frosch123> translations use {3:STRING} {1:COMMA}
22:48:36 <frosch123> {SKIP} in translations is something that the compilers deals with, not the translator
22:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so translations leave them out, like {STRINGn}?
22:50:19 <frosch123> as, said, if you need to reorder parameters, {SKIP} is pointless
22:50:40 <frosch123> what would {3:STRING}{SKIP}{1:COMMA} mean?
22:51:14 <frosch123> {SKIP} defines register layout in the baselanguage, but it has no information in the translation
22:52:55 * andythenorth wonders why it’s used
22:53:17 <andythenorth> it’s in the primary supplies text
22:53:47 <frosch123> likely because you wanted to do STORE_TEMP(0x100, a), STORE_TEMP(0x101, b) instead of STORE_TEMP(0x100, a | (b << 16))
22:54:39 <frosch123> or you have different versions of strings which use different amount of parameters, but you want to keep the same code to fill them
22:54:59 <frosch123> like when you have strings for 3, 2 and 1 input cargos
22:55:10 <frosch123> and other information in the other registers
22:58:16 <andythenorth> so the skip would make sense there
22:58:26 <andythenorth> $someone wrote that for me :)
22:59:02 <frosch123> i guess the two parameters have the amount for enhanced and gungho
22:59:12 <frosch123> but the gungho text does not display the enhanced requirement
23:07:37 <supermop> can we have some streets named after engineers other than james watt?
23:07:53 <andythenorth> more station names are possible
23:07:57 <andythenorth> but only one per industry
23:08:19 <supermop> supp. yard gets it as well
23:08:29 <supermop> in addition to machine shop
23:09:08 <andythenorth> on my ‘todo’ list :)
23:09:16 <andythenorth> I am not inventing the names though
23:10:30 <frosch123> i guess station names are the other strings from the precious dcxx range
23:10:42 <andythenorth> ah, I might not add more then
23:10:43 <frosch123> so, more station names limit more cargos :p
23:11:11 <frosch123> someone need to increase those limis :)
23:12:32 <andythenorth> probably not in 2017
23:13:56 <andythenorth> speedyzapgaming is good value in forums
23:17:43 <frosch123> but then he ran out of ideas for ship types
23:24:56 <Wolf01> Meh... I'm really bored to do 10 times the same thing in fallout 4, not being able to save is a plague
23:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i still have to go through 20 years of EU4 endgame...
23:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the time just doesn't seem to move forward at all
23:29:32 <Wolf01> Eh, but I'm like "get up - find something to do outside camp - get killed - autoload last autosave"
23:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and i had 10 years of regency, where i couldn't attack anybody
23:32:32 <Wolf01> Fast travel is disabled, illness is enabled, need to find something to eat (and that something usually tries to kill you) and drink, sleep, console disabled so I can't cheat, enemies (and you too, but does not count) do more damage
23:33:54 <Wolf01> I really liked the survival mode in new vegas, this one is "let's see how much it takes to give up"
23:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like games from the 80s
23:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> liks, before they invented monkey island
23:35:48 <Wolf01> Also ammo now has weight, I can't carry anymore 100+ fusion cores and 50 fat boys :(
23:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never actually played fallout
23:37:05 <Wolf01> It's a good game if you like the genre (TES-like), totally different than the first 2 ones
23:37:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the genre
23:38:18 <Wolf01> Explore the fuck out of the world and make people angry with bad decisions, that is :P
continue to next day ⏵
