IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-02-17
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03:12:04 <supermop_home> for some reason it's taking me like 30 min to download nrt road hog from the forums
03:12:23 <supermop_home> everything else for any other site is no problem
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08:55:49 <andythenorth> integer maths :|
09:00:50 <andythenorth> there must be a way to consolidate this sum?
09:00:51 <andythenorth> 100 / 8 * 6 / 8 * 4
09:01:07 <andythenorth> where 100, 6 and 4 are vars, and the 8s are constant
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09:07:52 <__ln__> a mathematician would argue it's not a sum
09:11:36 <andythenorth> @ calc 100 * 6 * 4 / 64
09:45:11 <V453000> never do meth andythenorth
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11:43:55 * Wolf01 requires more know-how and assistance to make that "CanBuildInfrastructureOnSteroids" function :(
11:48:13 <Wolf01> No, fix ScenarioEditor for NRT
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11:49:36 <Wolf01> Is actually impossible to build trams in SE
11:50:07 <Wolf01> Also the current function doesn't work well with road/railtypes
11:51:55 <Wolf01> I looked at what do I need to make a function as frosch suggested, but I'm not satisfied with the format
11:52:46 <Wolf01> Too many arguments, might need new support structures
11:53:38 <Wolf01> I would make 4 distinct functions, one for each one of the 3 use cases and a common one which does the actual check
11:57:13 <andythenorth> this is for checking availability of [xxx]type?
11:58:06 <Wolf01> To be used in GUI, SE, GameScripts
12:01:58 <peter1138> i guess the SE was designed to plonk scenery, industries and towns down
12:02:02 <peter1138> not build infrastructure
12:03:01 <Wolf01> But it inherited the build tram limitation from normal game
12:04:07 <Wolf01> If I remove that, you can build tramways also if there are no vehicles available for that
12:22:38 <andythenorth> can SE build railways?
12:22:57 <andythenorth> ok, so it can’t build tramways
12:23:06 <Wolf01> They are company exclusive, while tramways not
12:23:12 <andythenorth> it shouldn’t build canals either
12:23:26 <andythenorth> roads are a special case, because they’re a dependency for towns
12:23:34 <Wolf01> You should be able anything which supports "owner none"
12:23:45 <andythenorth> that is a valid argument yes
12:23:58 <andythenorth> but I think it’s easier to prevent building infrastructure except default ROAD
12:24:03 <andythenorth> complexity is bad
12:24:16 <andythenorth> it’s hard to solve, hard to test, and makes code harder to work on
12:24:21 <andythenorth> also it’s demotivating usually :)
12:24:57 <andythenorth> imho canals should be removed from SE also
12:24:57 <Wolf01> Nah, it should be consistent with the game, the problem are the current functions which do checks on company and remove the feature from SE with hardcoded "if (game_mode == GM_EDITOR) go f**k yourself"
12:26:03 <Wolf01> Meybe in future we could be able to generate big cities with a tramway ring, which could be used by the players
12:27:42 * andythenorth is maybe the wrong audience
12:27:51 <andythenorth> I have almost never used a scenario
12:28:08 <Wolf01> I made some scenarios in the past
12:30:31 <andythenorth> I think trams in SE is marginal value, compared to say….improved water features :)
12:30:41 <andythenorth> or fixing the station window :P
12:35:35 <andythenorth> eh, failing station refit is failing :(
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14:55:23 * andythenorth hating maths today
14:55:28 <andythenorth> normally maths is ‘fine'
14:55:53 <andythenorth> it’s like 3 hours so far, just trying to refactor current code
15:00:46 <andythenorth> this is code to remove the remainder in the production cb
15:00:47 <andythenorth> STORE_PERM(LOAD_PERM(var_leftover_cargo_1) % (MAX_SUM_PROD_RATIO / LOAD_TEMP(num_output_cargos)), var_leftover_cargo_1)
15:01:00 <andythenorth> I know why it’s there, but I don’t know why it works
15:01:10 <andythenorth> which makes refactoring it impossible :|
15:01:27 <andythenorth> MAX_SUM_PROD_RATIO is 8
15:01:45 <andythenorth> but I don’t know why it would need to % 8 or % 4 depending on number of output cargos
15:02:13 * andythenorth didn’t write this code
15:04:52 <Wolf01> I think is to not output an insane amount of cargo, like 10t iron -> 10t steel + 10t slag but 5t steel and 5t slag
15:05:39 <andythenorth> the modulus part is to deal with integer maths stuff
15:05:47 <andythenorth> can’t output 33.75t for example
15:06:01 <andythenorth> which can lead to input being ‘wasted'
15:06:15 <andythenorth> a player noticed it and filed a bug report, so we patched it :)
15:07:03 <Wolf01> That's because everyone expects a 1:1 or 2:1:1
15:07:27 <andythenorth> but why % 4 if there are two cargos?
15:07:31 <andythenorth> why not just % 8?
15:08:05 <Wolf01> Heh, math is not my friend
15:08:17 <andythenorth> me neither today
15:08:24 <andythenorth> specifically integer maths I struggle with
15:09:30 <andythenorth> it’s not accurate anyway, it will leave too much cargo behind
15:09:46 <andythenorth> this needs Eddi :(
15:17:41 <andythenorth> also the maths doesn’t work
15:17:59 <andythenorth> @calc 72 * 8 * 2 / 64
15:18:03 <andythenorth> game gives me 21
15:24:03 <andythenorth> @calc 75 * 8 * 2 / 64
15:29:05 <andythenorth> what’s the minimum amount that can be produced? o_O
15:41:29 <andythenorth> @calc 144 * 2 * 8 / 64
15:41:37 <andythenorth> I get 32 or 38 :P
15:44:00 <supermop> because tram isn't always going to be tram
15:44:29 <supermop> there could be various non-ROAD road or tram types that might be valuable to scenario editor
15:44:58 <supermop> my bridge sprites are wrong
15:49:47 <andythenorth> I have new maths that should resolve the same as the old maths
15:49:51 <andythenorth> but it doesn’t :x
15:51:41 <supermop> why is bridge showing the regular underlays in the correct position, instead of the bridge surface sprites?
15:52:22 <andythenorth> mismatched template?
15:53:30 <supermop> grey bit is part of the bridge surface, but in wrong place
15:53:43 <supermop> but why is the cobble there at all
15:54:19 <andythenorth> paste your code?
15:54:24 <andythenorth> (or start a repo ;) )
15:55:42 <supermop> thats the spritesheet
15:56:47 <andythenorth> ground_tile( 10, 288)?
15:57:34 <andythenorth> hmm that looks ok
15:57:44 <supermop> should i call it something else?
15:57:55 <andythenorth> paste all your code?
15:59:48 <supermop> ignore the truck at the bottom dont need it
16:06:21 <andythenorth> supermop: whatever you’re doing, RH doesn’t do it :)
16:08:20 <supermop> 'cobblestone pavement construction' or 'cobblestone driveway construction'?
16:09:28 <supermop> release docklands ->create steam tram harbor ->create quaint steam tram screenshots
16:09:30 <andythenorth> cobble road? o_O
16:10:01 <supermop> andythenorth: want to differentiate it from an actual cobblestone street or road
16:10:10 <andythenorth> not sure why RH works
16:10:33 <supermop> rh reuses regular sprites, not bridge sprites
16:10:38 <andythenorth> your underlay fills the whole tile?
16:11:00 <supermop> but i dont want the underlay on the bridge at all
16:11:16 <andythenorth> RH copies from nml example, which reuses the underlay
16:11:49 <andythenorth> but you already split it :o
16:13:49 <andythenorth> supermop: try removing ‘underlay’ from the graphics block and recompile
16:14:12 <supermop> just for the bridge wording?
16:15:10 <andythenorth> line 85 or so in the paste
16:15:18 <andythenorth> underlay: cobble_road_underlay;
16:15:37 <andythenorth> I suspect that underlay is always drawn, and has to fit to standard bridge dimensions
16:20:40 <supermop> tram is going to need that though
16:21:19 <supermop> unless tram can have two overlays
16:23:57 <supermop> commenting out underlay makes the roads all look like normal roads
16:25:03 <peter1138> hmm, what's a nice bug tracker with git integration?
16:26:37 <supermop> can i just disable bridges for a roadtype instead?
16:27:43 <supermop> tbh do not need these types to have bridges as they are just freight yard decoration
16:27:58 <andythenorth> peter1138: github?
16:28:01 <andythenorth> oh you said ‘nice'
16:28:36 <andythenorth> jira is paid for and divides opinion sharply
16:29:23 * andythenorth would likely just use github, cos, free and minimal set up
16:30:12 <peter1138> yeah this is for private internal projects though
16:30:45 <peter1138> redmine looks possible
16:30:51 <peter1138> i'm sure i used to have one
16:30:55 <andythenorth> better if someone else hosts it :P
16:31:01 <peter1138> must've lost it over the years
16:37:44 <supermop> lying awake last night pondering possible pro/cons/ways to make interesting trolley trucks in late game
16:40:30 <andythenorth> why does FIRS fuck around trying to calculate remainder cargos? :)
16:40:48 <andythenorth> @calc floor(100 * 6) / 8
16:41:02 <andythenorth> @calc floor(100 * 3) / 8
16:41:19 <andythenorth> @calc floor(100 * 3 / 8)
16:41:32 <andythenorth> it’s 0.5t ‘wasted'
16:42:27 <andythenorth> iirc, for very small delivery amounts, nothing gets produced below a certain minimum
16:42:33 <andythenorth> but docs don’t tell me what the minimum is
16:43:08 <andythenorth> bloody integer division
16:51:41 <andythenorth> can’t see anything in IndustryProductionCallback that would require output >= 8
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16:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> i'm sure i used to have one <-- are you sure you didn't mean you had a patch for one? :p
16:57:57 <andythenorth> the intent is to compensate for ‘wasted’ input cargo due to integer division, but eh
16:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it stores the remainder for future use
17:00:52 <andythenorth> does the maths add up?
17:01:37 <andythenorth> I know what the grf code is doing, but I can’t follow the maths
17:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure what the var_ratio_cargo_X do
17:01:54 <andythenorth> it would be, for example 8
17:02:20 <andythenorth> @calc 100 / 8 / 2 * 3
17:02:29 <andythenorth> so the remainder would be 0.75
17:02:50 <andythenorth> @calc 100 % (8 * 2)
17:03:28 <andythenorth> there seems to be no connection between the calculated remainder, and the actual remainder
17:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so the maths is roughly as follows: 100/8/2 is equal to 100/(8*2). in the lines above you take the whole part of that division
17:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> in the lines below you take the remainder of that division
17:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure what the *3 does
17:04:27 <andythenorth> the 2 is the number of produced cargos
17:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so you put 100/(8*2) into the production, and 100%(8*2) is the new leftover
17:05:06 <andythenorth> the 3 is the proportion of cargo supplied:delivered, as 8:3
17:05:30 <Alberth> b * (a/b) + (a%b) = a
17:06:07 <Alberth> where a/b rounds down
17:06:19 <Alberth> (or more likely, towards 0
17:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so the / rounds the 6.25 towards 6
17:06:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and the % is for not throwing away the .25
17:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm no closer to understanding what the *3 does
17:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> my best guess is that the 100/(8*2) is the amount of input cargo you use, and the *3 is just for the output cargo, so not relevant for storing the remainder
17:08:51 <andythenorth> @calc 100 / 8 * 2
17:09:00 <andythenorth> @calc 100 / (8 * 2)
17:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> 100 divided by (8*2) is 6 with remainder 4
17:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> in the upper lines you process the 6, and in the lower lines you carry over the 4
17:10:05 <andythenorth> oh it’s like primary school maths?
17:10:21 <andythenorth> I never managed to do long division
17:10:35 <andythenorth> 30 years later, it shows up again
17:10:44 <andythenorth> I could never carry the remainder, makes no sense
17:10:50 <supermop> i got caught up on a GRE question about long division some how
17:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> what's "long" about the division?
17:11:28 <supermop> there i was at like 24 years old looking at math i hadnt done since i was 10
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17:11:50 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: the length of my lamentations upon being faced with it
17:11:54 * LordAro , the maths undergrad, looks pointedly at you all
17:12:17 <LordAro> that said, i miss actual numbers sometimes
17:12:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you can happily do a maths degree without ever having to do a division :p
17:12:45 <LordAro> i go through some lectures where the only numerical digit i see is the '1' at the bottom of a summation :p
17:13:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how do you divide 100 by 16 without long division?
17:14:02 <supermop> i cant find an image macro of that particular simpsons line
17:14:25 <supermop> 100/16 is 6 and vis versa
17:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> x=100; y=0; while (x>0) { x-=16; y++; }
17:14:37 <andythenorth> yes, that is nicer
17:14:43 <supermop> was my rule of thumb for rmb while in china
17:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: beware of obiwans
17:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: anyway, for doing the division you can ask the giant calculator in front of you.
17:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need "long" division for that :p
17:16:31 <andythenorth> except in this case
17:16:46 <andythenorth> 1) I don’t understand the maths
17:17:02 <andythenorth> 2) OpenTTD doesn’t consistently produce the same output, so testing is hard
17:17:18 <andythenorth> deliver 72t, expecting 36t result
17:17:21 <andythenorth> sometimes I get 39t
17:17:32 <andythenorth> I’ve re-run the same test from saves
17:17:51 <andythenorth> I’ve run it about 50 times today
17:18:06 <andythenorth> usually it’s 36 though
17:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so you get 32t until the remainder builds up, then you get 39t once, and have to wait for the remainder to build up again
17:18:32 <andythenorth> not when I’ve deleted the remainder code :P
17:18:52 <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't know what you do
17:19:05 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe some other variable changes?
17:19:14 <andythenorth> the only explanation I can think of is vehicles arriving as the month changes
17:19:28 <andythenorth> or deliveries coinciding with periodic processing in some other way
17:19:42 <andythenorth> maybe cargo gets double-counted for a tick or something
17:22:06 <andythenorth> supermop: nice :)
17:22:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like i've seen that picture before
17:23:12 <andythenorth> I guess I’ll just leave the remainder code in place, untouched
17:23:35 <andythenorth> the spurious looking results are likely just due to gradually increasing remainder
17:23:45 <andythenorth> at least this changes nothing from existing FIRS
17:29:05 <supermop> has anyone other than andy complained about the behavior?
17:29:45 <supermop> just say you are simulating shift changes at the factory between amateurs and experienced crews
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17:33:38 <supermop> should there be any vehicles that can drive around on these pavements but not on regular roads and streets?
17:33:49 <supermop> like forklifts and container stackers?
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18:02:51 <Alberth> it's a matter of time before some vehicles can only drive on some of the available roads
18:03:21 <Alberth> otherwise NRT would be a whole lot simpler
18:04:20 <andythenorth> supermop_: the remainder code was in response to complaints :)
18:04:28 <andythenorth> complaints / valid bug reports
18:04:46 <andythenorth> and yes, ‘industrial traffic’ should be a thing
18:04:53 <andythenorth> maybe you could do HEQS 2?
18:05:09 <supermop_> if you want and its nml
18:06:33 <supermop_> and wondering if it should be 'new road vehicle' or 'new ... vehicle'
18:12:43 <andythenorth> RH has “New Heavy Haul Road Vehicles”
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18:14:04 <supermop_> andythenorth: thats fine, but currently chips pavement roads are just non-public driveways for regular road vehicles
18:14:16 <andythenorth> supermop_: such is design :)
18:14:25 <supermop_> so a cobblestone depot can build a regular bus
18:14:33 <andythenorth> “new road vehicle” then? o_O
18:14:40 <supermop_> thats what i have now
18:14:46 <andythenorth> combinatorial systems like this are notoriously hard to make sense with
18:14:55 <supermop_> but maybe it will be cool to change it
18:15:36 <supermop_> dual mode trucks - whats the interesting angle for late game ?
18:16:00 <supermop_> lower cost on wires? higher power?
18:16:24 <supermop_> mostly electric but can limp on diesel/battery?
18:17:47 <supermop_> the 'real' reasons of better air-quality/less noise in populated areas aren't really workable in game
18:19:10 <supermop_> frosch123: i have a bridge surface problem
18:19:33 <frosch123> your car dropped into water?
18:22:31 <supermop_> i don't want the cobbles on there
18:22:45 <frosch123> i think you added your "ground" sprites as "overlay" sprites
18:24:02 <frosch123> for road you usually do not add any overlay sprites
18:24:50 <supermop_> thats the whole code if it helps
18:25:49 <frosch123> "track_overlay" is always drawn
18:26:30 <frosch123> so, remove "track_overlay" from all roadtypes
18:26:49 <frosch123> overlay is for small things like tram rails on top of other roadtypes
18:26:57 <frosch123> the overlay never includes the walkway
18:42:52 <supermop_> ok fixed now except for one ramp offset
18:43:12 <supermop_> just need to fix level crossings then can ship
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18:46:49 <supermop_> now the southeast halftile is the drive in truckstop
18:49:39 <andythenorth> mostly FIRS secondary industry outputs 4:4 (where there are 2 cargos)
18:49:55 <andythenorth> some Steeltown industries, this is inappropriate
18:50:25 <andythenorth> the rest of FIRS, ‘byproducts’ aren’t really a feature
18:50:30 <andythenorth> whereas Steeltown they are
18:50:40 <andythenorth> so Coke Oven: 6:2 Coke:Sulphur?
18:51:19 <andythenorth> realism would be about 7:1 or less
18:55:21 <Alberth> unless Sulphur is a sort of supplies, it becomes quite useless, I think
18:55:56 <andythenorth> there is a story behind that :P
18:56:06 <Alberth> maybe as multiplier in "if multiple cargos are delivered, production steps up"
18:56:11 <supermop_> i wonder why drive in stop suddenly showed up for just one of the half tiles, for only 3 of the roadtypes
18:56:35 <andythenorth> TL;DR sulphur was a nice hack to reduce dependence on chemicals for tyre plant
18:57:38 <andythenorth> longer, amount of coke produced is same (6t per 8t coal), but the ‘waste’ (2t per 8t coal) is used to make tyres, replacing generic ‘chemicals’
18:58:01 <Alberth> sounds fair enough :)
18:58:17 <andythenorth> it was a nice hack, but it means losing the neat 1:1 split that FIRS has always had where 2 cargos are produced at a secondary
18:58:49 <Alberth> you don't want to become too predictable :)
19:31:29 <andythenorth> Alberth: how is your Steeltown game? o_O
19:31:34 <andythenorth> and do you want a new one? :P
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19:33:09 <Alberth> I was wondering about that :)
19:33:45 <andythenorth> I haven’t fixed any sprites, but I think the chains are good now
19:34:06 <andythenorth> more changes are probably just pissing around with diminishing returns
19:34:12 <andythenorth> but needs second or third opinions :)
19:36:33 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
19:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> somebody stole the internet again
19:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> for like 5 minutes this time, not 5 hours
19:39:32 <Alberth> I was about to do something about 324t steel / month :p
19:39:48 <Alberth> also, chips are annoying at not showing cargo
19:45:33 <andythenorth> slag using fire cycle? :P
19:45:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27747 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2017-02-17 19:45:37 +0100 )
19:45:44 <DorpsGek> korean: 7 changes by telk5093
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19:49:14 <Alberth> would be nice if that was possible, slowly becoming black :)
19:49:31 <andythenorth> I am putting in some fire pixels
19:49:36 <andythenorth> but animating them is beyond me :)
19:49:41 <andythenorth> CHIPS is quite special code
19:49:57 <Alberth> pig iron too, I think
19:53:38 <Alberth> quicklime too, just tested
19:55:16 <andythenorth> generic metal can probably serve for pig iron
19:57:18 <andythenorth> hmm pig iron does not come in coils
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19:58:32 <Alberth> still need to touch about 1/3 of the map :)
20:01:40 <Alberth> let's try number 6275 :)
20:01:53 <andythenorth> quicklime seems to go in barrels
20:04:45 * andythenorth will be shocked if that isn’t savegame safe
20:08:07 <Alberth> game is less than 5 minutes old :p
20:08:44 <andythenorth> misses graphics for cement and soda ash cargos
20:09:04 <andythenorth> but those aren’t the main focus
20:10:45 <andythenorth> ha I should add explosives graphics :)
20:12:01 <andythenorth> sadly just crates
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20:21:27 <Alberth> mega explosive packs :)
20:21:38 <Alberth> container full of them
20:21:56 <Alberth> ugh, loooong bridge @ 32km/h
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22:01:14 <Alberth> looks like very good colour :)
22:01:31 <Alberth> or rather, unique colour :)
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22:07:17 <berndj> is "service all the things" an established game type?
22:12:39 <berndj> i find i run out of cash and have to wait for some lines to make some money before i can build again, at an early-ish stage
22:12:44 <Alberth> thanks andy, will add it to the game tomorrow, not sure how much time I will have then
22:13:02 <berndj> later (assuming i don't go bankrupt) i can't keep up in click rate
22:13:14 <Alberth> yep, that's normal :)
22:13:49 <Alberth> you can use more expensive-to-run vehicles if you like to keep up clicking longer :)
22:15:20 <Alberth> some people aim for max money, personally, I lose interest in money as soon as I get more than I spend :)
22:16:23 <andythenorth> anyone want to tell me how long ships should be, based on a ‘proper’ dimetric projection of a circle?
22:23:15 <andythenorth> the – view blatantly exceeds a projected circle
22:23:26 <andythenorth> but the ratio I’m using is same as for trains, RVs
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22:44:49 <andythenorth> ship should be more like 86px
22:44:59 <andythenorth> which is about 1.33 * the 64 px length
22:45:17 <andythenorth> might be coincidence, might be trigonometry
22:48:53 <andythenorth> hmm trig says 74px
22:50:56 <andythenorth> @calc 2*(64/sqrt(3))
22:50:56 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 73.9008344563
22:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in the – view you should cut every 4th pixel to have better rotational scale
22:55:13 <andythenorth> based on the original baseset train ratio?
22:55:42 <andythenorth> original base set ships are bonkers, they get shorter in – view :P
22:57:05 <andythenorth> original base set ships are bonkers, they get shorter in – view :P
22:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc sqrt(3)*16
22:57:48 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 27.7128129211
22:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc sqrt(5)*16
22:58:18 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 35.77708764
22:59:40 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2.2360679775
23:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the "cutting every 4th pixel" is a result of making the diagonal of a square 1.5 times the side of the square (rounding from sqrt(2))
23:01:45 * andythenorth needs a picture :)
23:02:09 <andythenorth> but I get the principle
23:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> can't make pictures
23:03:04 <andythenorth> comes out at 86px I think
23:03:25 <andythenorth> for a vehicle that is 2 tiles (64px)
23:03:35 <andythenorth> 64px is measured along x axis though :P
23:03:47 <andythenorth> not longitudinally along the projection of the vehicle
23:05:04 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc sqrt(5)*1.5*32
23:05:04 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 107.33126292
23:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (445-275)/2
23:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (486-230)/2
23:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 128/sqrt(2)
23:12:09 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 90.5096679919
23:12:20 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 85.3333333333
23:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that's the value you're going for
23:13:23 <andythenorth> it’s almost exactly what I got from drawing an ellipse in photoshop
23:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the diagonal of a square of length 2 is 128px, so length 2 is 90px (for "exact" sqrt(2)) or 85 (for "rounded" sqrt(2))
23:13:58 * andythenorth can’t do long division, but paid attention in technical drawing geometry :P
23:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> somewhere inbetween those two values you should probably try to get your ship
23:15:06 <andythenorth> to confirm, this is for the – view length, measured on x axis
23:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> this also matches my "cut every 4th pixel" theorem
23:15:14 <andythenorth> [for avoidance of doubt]
23:15:39 <andythenorth> it fits an old rule I learnt for isometric triangles
23:15:57 <Wolf01> BTW, I live in the back garden of Venice :P
23:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, nobody actually lives IN venice. it's all tourists...
23:16:40 <andythenorth> @calc 64 * 1.333
23:16:40 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 85.312
23:17:00 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 85.3333333333
23:17:33 <andythenorth> it reduces to the same
23:17:37 <andythenorth> it’s all triangles
23:17:45 <andythenorth> ok, well that’s something
23:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> illuminati confirmed!
23:18:10 <andythenorth> it means either ships are quite short in – view (86px instead of 128px, big reduction)
23:18:17 <andythenorth> or I make them > 2 tiles long
23:19:57 <andythenorth> or I distort the true scale, as per the rest of the base set :P
23:21:31 <andythenorth> or I distort the true scale, as per the rest of the base set :)
23:21:54 * andythenorth has flappy connection
23:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it's fine, means we can read everything twice :p
23:24:02 <Wolf01> Oh, I thought it was my problem
23:27:26 <andythenorth> so with the correct lengths, the \ / views are even longer than Squid :)
23:27:48 <andythenorth> and the purpose of a new set was to shorten those lengths, as they look wrong in game :)
23:27:58 * andythenorth has drawn the ship to the new lenght
23:28:20 <andythenorth> it’s quite obviously rotationally correct
23:33:49 * andythenorth will sleep on it
23:33:50 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:40:41 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
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