IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-02-05
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14:11:33 <Alberth> north is quick like the wind
14:12:05 <Alberth> fortunately that also means he'll return
14:12:28 <V453000> I need to update pillow
14:13:28 <V453000> might need python 3.6.0 I guess
14:15:16 <Alberth> never heard of .whl files
14:15:43 <Alberth> likely you need the python version that the pillow was build against
14:16:02 <Alberth> newest isn't terribly relevant, in most cases
14:16:04 <V453000> I read something about using pip to get it
14:17:31 <Alberth> Pip entry lists the command to get pip, it seems
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14:28:04 <V453000> nice I got it to work :>
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15:29:02 <V453000> finally wrote my 32bpp->8bpp converter
15:29:53 <V453000> ... the script isn't final but it basically works
15:30:10 <V453000> the problem now is that for example brix bridges have 53 megapixels
15:30:47 <andythenorth> you can use multiprocessing pool if there are multiple images
15:30:59 <andythenorth> 1 image per worker
15:31:05 <V453000> well here the problem is 1 image XD
15:31:22 <andythenorth> python won’t be fast for massive images
15:31:25 <V453000> I plan a couple more features and flexibilities
15:31:30 <andythenorth> dunno if ImageMagick is faster, but eh
15:31:36 <V453000> is there a way to run python on gpu?
15:31:57 <andythenorth> there’s some PyCUDA thing
15:32:28 <V453000> got a titan x at work
15:32:37 <V453000> 980Ti at home isn't bad either
15:32:51 <andythenorth> probably only speeds up certain kind of python ops, is my guess
15:33:20 <andythenorth> _if_ I made an OpenTTD fork, and used it to start deleting things
15:33:21 <V453000> idk will try eventually
15:33:24 <andythenorth> what would I delete?
15:34:23 <V453000> eh all of those 3 have some use
15:34:28 <andythenorth> everything has some use :)
15:44:03 <V453000> hm half an hour and I have 20M pixels done
15:44:21 <frosch123> andythenorth: remove cargodist, presignals, timetables, flat maps, town growth and ais. then check what is left for anyone to play with
15:44:26 <V453000> alpha should be automatically skipped
15:44:44 <V453000> frosch is forgetting PBS
15:44:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: I can’t tell how serious you are :P
15:45:19 <frosch123> V453000: no, i was trying to piss off all interest groups equally, so i had to remove presignals and keep pbs
15:45:27 <andythenorth> someone gave me the idea recently that 4x zoom and 32bpp might have been a misstep :)
15:45:55 <andythenorth> fragmenting the add-ons == less community?
15:45:55 <V453000> well it's shit but it doesn't mean it needs removing
15:46:08 <V453000> well, forking openttd = less community? :P
15:46:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: everyone is happy about 2x zoom, once 4k screens become the standard everyone will think the same about 4x
15:46:17 <andythenorth> I never even tried simutrans because the paks are so confusing
15:46:24 <V453000> implementing 32bpp incompatible with previous attempts = less community? :P
15:46:26 <frosch123> 4x is just a bit ahead of the time
15:46:44 <andythenorth> V453000: maybe that yes ^^
15:47:05 <V453000> the screen resolutions are probably only going to increase
15:47:18 <V453000> most ridiculous part is that smaller devices seem to have higher resolution
15:47:34 <andythenorth> I had some chat with pl*netmaker on forum pm
15:47:42 <andythenorth> I am curious why there are 5 of us left contributing
15:47:51 <andythenorth> like, what keeps us motivated? o_O
15:47:52 <frosch123> the first 4k devices i saw were 4" smartphones
15:47:57 <V453000> you mean it should be less or more? :D
15:48:21 <V453000> I probably haven't seen a 4k phone yet but I don't follow phones much
15:49:40 <V453000> andythenorth: idk, I always return to openttd stuff mainly because it taught me so much until now, that I always see more potential
15:49:46 <V453000> and I haven't been mistaken so far
15:49:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: imho the trick has always been to find intersections between your own interests and other's interests
15:50:00 <V453000> apart from that, dreams need to be completed
15:50:36 <andythenorth> I never get bored because I’m playing a metagame against myself
15:50:45 <andythenorth> and I’m a massive narcissist
15:51:01 <andythenorth> i.e. I always see what I got wrong, and have to beat my mistakes
15:53:21 <andythenorth> V453000: you do same eh :P
15:53:51 <V453000> struggling with finding time lately, but yeah
15:54:11 <andythenorth> getting things wrong in DLC is fine
15:54:18 <andythenorth> leave the old one on bananas, new grfid, move on
15:54:25 <andythenorth> or change it, same grfid, piss some people off
15:54:37 <andythenorth> but OpenTTD has no room for people to fail eh :P
15:54:45 <andythenorth> and no way to reverse mistakes
15:55:03 <andythenorth> reading between the lines of what pm said, it’s quite overwhelming being a maintainer
15:55:12 <andythenorth> and there’s no upside, no thanks, not much positive feedback
15:55:40 <V453000> kind of to be expected tbh
15:55:45 <andythenorth> unstable, immature software is much more fun to work on
15:55:52 <V453000> it's tough and hard, but people don't have the direct contact with you
15:56:23 <V453000> for example when I make newgrfs, there is always someone at coop who will like it
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15:56:42 <V453000> it's not like I am making the newgrfs for anybody else really :)
15:57:13 <andythenorth> I am mostly making for myself
15:57:30 <andythenorth> but can’t ignore the upside of nice feedback e
15:57:35 <Alberth> I think most authors do that :)
15:58:18 <V453000> for me it's that coop basically follows my ideas so it's for me=coop
15:58:50 <frosch123> V found someone to do his hobby for him, without pay
15:59:37 <Alberth> first peak preview at all the marvellous V graphics :)
16:00:53 <frosch123> Alberth: 5 years ago i only knew V for drinking beer, then somehow he started making grfs, and now he works as an artist
16:01:46 <V453000> also you just made me realize it's been 6-7 years since I started working on nuts
16:02:20 <V453000> hopefully pc won't catch on fire XD 30Mpix done
16:03:06 <frosch123> oh, i think it's 10 years since i started reading into nfo spec, and writing forum pms to dalestan; who then (correctly) flamed me for not asking support questions on public
16:03:23 <andythenorth> oh he did that to you too :)
16:03:26 <andythenorth> we should compare the flame
16:03:35 <andythenorth> it was a fairly unique style
16:03:37 <frosch123> i don't flame people when they send support questions via pm or email, i just ignore them
16:04:00 <andythenorth> I found being flamed quite encouraging
16:04:52 <frosch123> why do i have 4 pages of pms on forums? i do not remember writing them
16:05:12 <andythenorth> I have ridiculous number :P
16:05:44 <andythenorth> I sent 65 pages of pms :o
16:05:50 <andythenorth> that is more wtf than I expected
16:06:03 <Alberth> there is this "delete" feature :p
16:07:39 <frosch123> Alberth: that's lying
16:08:51 <frosch123> like when people argued on the forums: when there are no active ttdp devs, we should reset the bug tracker, so people can start fresh
16:09:17 <Alberth> rediscover all the open bugs :p
16:10:14 <Alberth> do like Fedora, close all bugs of a release after its EOL (2 years)
16:15:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: so you are close to the limit of 2000 pms?
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16:17:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: yes I had to delete some recently
16:18:08 <andythenorth> maybe that’s where the Dalestan flame went :)
16:18:40 <andythenorth> some of the flyspray bugs are just noise now
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16:18:53 <andythenorth> I started reading them and commenting on ones I thought were closable
16:18:59 <andythenorth> …then I got bored :P
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16:21:21 <andythenorth> dropped my laptop
16:21:26 <andythenorth> just checking it works :P
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18:37:33 <V453000> can you send me a non-diff thing pls? :)
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18:40:27 <Alberth> don't paste it over your old version
18:40:36 <Alberth> I hacked some stuff to get it running
18:40:45 <V453000> just need to see, a factorio human is also helping me optimize :D
18:41:17 <Alberth> bit of C code would do wonders :p
18:41:30 <V453000> thanks :) let's see how far can I push it
18:41:43 <V453000> very interested to see how much difference will also the PyCUDA do
18:42:07 <Alberth> if it works, it should be day vs night :)
18:42:37 <Alberth> never programmed a GPU for doing calculations
18:42:47 <Alberth> not sure how that would work
18:42:52 <V453000> is pretty much what I'm thinking
18:43:57 <Alberth> I guess you could run the minimization algorithm for each palette value in parallel, pretty much instantly getting the winner
18:44:46 <Alberth> but is higher OpenGL wizardry than my capabilities :)
18:47:15 <V453000> I have 2 rooms of programmers next to me every day
18:47:39 <V453000> but thank you so much, I'll try to read it and attempt understanding
18:49:41 <Alberth> ok, otherwise, just ask
18:54:27 <Alberth> why don't you make a palette image immediately btw?
18:54:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27743 trunk/src/viewport_gui.cpp (2017-02-05 18:54:46 +0100 )
18:54:52 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6537]: Extra viewports did not center on the selected tile. (hackalittlebit)
18:55:04 <Alberth> "out image" is still a RGBA image
18:55:09 <V453000> Alberth: just didn't do it yet
18:55:35 <V453000> considering it easier, just a matter of if the 8bpp module works
18:55:45 <V453000> worst case scenario I can re-save it in photoshop
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19:24:06 <andythenorth> my screen no longer quite lines up with the base of my laptop :D
19:24:12 <andythenorth> it’s out by about 1mm
19:28:19 <V453000> Alberth: fuken programming :D. Cube says that the main optimization will be using a different function to load the image pixels
19:29:36 <andythenorth> PIL is particularly…special
19:30:09 <V453000> I heard many times from our programmers that PIL was old trash and pillow better
19:30:19 <andythenorth> there’s not a vast difference
19:30:28 <andythenorth> pillow is just better packaged, and builds reliably
19:30:33 <andythenorth> so installations don’t fail
19:30:49 <andythenorth> PIL was almost guaranteed to make a build fail :P
19:31:12 <V453000> well that alone sounds like a good improvement :D
19:31:36 <andythenorth> hmm, seems I use point() already :(
19:31:40 <andythenorth> can’t go any faster
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19:32:15 <andythenorth> graphics processing is about 11s for Sam :(
19:32:21 <andythenorth> super annoyingly slow
19:35:40 <andythenorth> I should find out what’s slow eh
19:35:54 <andythenorth> it’s only 2MB of images
19:36:58 <andythenorth> woah, Sam grf is 3MB :O
19:37:20 <andythenorth> and it contains only a fraction of the sprites :o
19:37:47 * andythenorth is clearly on a path to V453000 grf sizes
19:38:23 <andythenorth> all of Squid is 1.2MB
19:38:30 <andythenorth> cargo sprites eh :P
19:39:49 <Alberth> hope that pixels access works out
19:40:23 <Alberth> but a dedicated C program to convert 32bpp to a palette helps better, I think :p
19:40:43 <Alberth> it's probably not even much different from your code
19:40:48 <V453000> but I don't understand how does that work for shit
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19:50:24 <Alberth> if you can do it in one or two pillow calls, you're basically having a C implementation
19:50:37 <Alberth> all those routines are written in C, afaik
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21:22:34 <Wolf01> Imagine it with ottd windows
21:22:53 <Wolf01> 10 viewports, 5 toolbars
21:24:25 <__ln__> ottd doesn't even really support dualscreen yet
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21:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem with hololens is that you need to move your head and can't just move your eyes
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22:01:46 <Wolf01> Same with TrackIR, but people use it
22:03:06 <markasoftware> trackir you barely have to move your head though
22:03:15 <markasoftware> with hololons you have to move it 360 degrees
22:03:26 <markasoftware> trackir moves the view on screen more than your head turns
22:03:51 <Wolf01> I think TrackIR is customizable
22:04:50 <__ln__> only danish people can turn their head 360 degrees
22:09:25 <Snail> argh… I really wish my point had been taken more seriously
22:09:34 <Snail> this thing has incredibly complicated my code
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23:18:10 <V453000> Alberth" did you try to run the thing?
23:18:40 <V453000> the for z, (cr, cg, cb) in enumerate(p): seems to give me an error "ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 3)
23:25:41 <V453000> gonna try the pixel access objects tomorrow
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23:56:16 <abculatter_2> Hey, I'm having a problem with ECS not having all cargos and industries when installed?
23:56:50 <abculatter_2> Also, the latest linux Debian seems to point to version 1.5.3, not 1.6
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