IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-12-30
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00:00:21 <supermop> i would mostly recommend it to live in rather than visit, but there are lots to do around there as well
00:00:49 <supermop> san juan islands olympic peninsula, etc
00:01:18 <supermop> cool architecture and shops in the city
00:01:37 <supermop> lot of my friends from high school and university live there now
00:01:50 <supermop> as well as some of my wife's cousins
00:03:56 <supermop> if you are going to be in Washington State anyway i'd definitely recommend visiting
00:05:23 <__ln__> i'm in a stage of finding out ideas where to go next, while the timeframe for implementing such trips is probably a few years in the future at least
00:08:22 <__ln__> Washington is one of the 42 states i have not been to yet
00:12:49 <supermop> well might as well go
00:13:24 <supermop> but depending on where you are coming from i would try to incorporate other stuff in washington besides just seattle
00:14:19 <supermop> when i was a kid we occasionally took ~2 wk trips to visit my aunt in oregon, where we would drive from oregon to washington
00:15:28 <supermop> including both time in cities like portland and seattle, as well as lots of time in the mountains, high desert, temperate rainforest, coast etc
00:16:14 <supermop> if you have not spent much time in the northwest, that's the type of trip i would suggest
00:17:38 <supermop> i suggest to do it in sumer when it is not raining
00:17:58 <supermop> where will you be flying in from?
00:18:20 <supermop> lorran78: he might actually be asleep
00:19:19 <supermop> how long will you be in the US
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00:20:07 <__ln__> well, since i don't have a concrete plan yet, can't say for sure, but ~2 weeks could be realistic.
00:23:22 <Wolf01> So, I forked ottd... to make my one with supreme 3d graphics, blackjack and hookers
00:24:00 <Wolf01> Just kidding... I'm doing a "backup" of my patches
00:27:35 <__ln__> speaking of sleeping, gotta do that too, now
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01:37:45 <Flygon_> <Wolf01> So, I forked ottd... to make my one with supreme 3d graphics, blackjack and hookers
01:37:50 <Flygon_> The PS1 version already exists
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01:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: seriously, if those were not enough words to help you find the wikipage with almost the exact title, i can't help you.
01:42:56 <lorran78> oh it's almost the title?
01:43:04 <lorran78> i search for this strange lol
01:54:14 <lorran78> this : GRFID overrides for engines (11) Allows you to provide a list of 'source' and 'target' GRFIDs to let vehicles in the source GRF override those in the target GRF, when dynamic engines is enabled. Each entry is 8 bytes, containing two GRFIDs. Multiple entries can be used, and different GRFs can be set to override the same 'target' GRF, but only the last instance of a 'source' GRF is active. GRFIDs that are not prese
01:54:57 <lorran78> but i am not sure it's answer to my question if all are reset if override ?
02:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's not reset
02:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing in your grf says "reset this vehicle"
02:07:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you just change this one value
02:08:31 <Eddi|zuHause> (note the limitation that you can only replace the graphics block as a whole, not individual parts of it. but you don't have a graphics block, so this is not a concern)
02:25:09 <lorran78> my english is not so good so i am trying to understand the GRFID i know it's in header.pnml generally and i thought that is i set the same GRFID in my GRF it would work :/
02:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you need your GRFID and the GRFID of the grf you want to override
02:31:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (actually, you can leave out your GRFID)
02:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and in the game your grf must be below the one you override
02:46:59 <lorran78> i thing i understand i try :)
02:48:03 <lorran78> and if i want to override 2 grf i had ; between?
02:49:36 <_dp_> lorran78, no idea, mb try doing second after first
02:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a new override block for each override
02:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, you can't override two grfs simultaneously
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11:58:34 <andythenorth> would need a hack of trams/RVs
11:58:50 <andythenorth> specify which level they’re on, for pathfinding
11:59:06 <andythenorth> just an integer, if the integers don’t match they’re blind to each other
11:59:16 <andythenorth> but there are 50 problems with ‘above ground’ vehicles
11:59:26 <andythenorth> tunnels, catenary, bridges...
11:59:28 <Wolf01> Also an offset for graphics
11:59:40 <Wolf01> Must be drawn over overlay
11:59:45 <andythenorth> you’ve seen elevated monorail?
12:06:52 <andythenorth> we would need more active developers if that was ever to happen :)
12:07:09 <Alberth> ie a map with several levels above each other
12:08:33 <Alberth> so far, I am stuck in how to store the tile data at all
12:10:46 * andythenorth would have no idea :)
12:10:58 <andythenorth> but presumably this just eats a lot more RAM?
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12:11:18 <andythenorth> how many levels are really needed?
12:11:27 <andythenorth> it can’t be arbitrarily extensible
12:11:40 <Alberth> if you split tracks from the ground, it would save memory
12:12:10 <Alberth> there are many ground tiles, but they don't all need all the bits of train tracks
12:12:15 <andythenorth> strikes me that only 3 levels are needed
12:12:23 <andythenorth> sub-surface, surface, above-surface
12:12:24 <Alberth> in fact, most of them re just empty, or have a few trees
12:12:42 <peter1139> but sub-surface tunnels
12:12:53 <andythenorth> I don’t actually like the idea, it would need a rework of transparency / gui tools to hide/show layers
12:13:09 <peter1139> it would need more than a rework of the game
12:13:17 <andythenorth> but eh, it’s a fun game to try and figure it out
12:13:38 * andythenorth never played lomo, it’s not pretty
12:13:51 <peter1139> i had a... special version once.
12:14:04 <peter1139> building was annoying
12:14:12 <peter1139> a bit like stock ttd i suppose.
12:14:55 <Alberth> or rather, like building a rollercoaster
12:15:28 <peter1139> that was annoying too
12:18:07 <Alberth> andy: yes, it was solved in RCT
12:23:23 <andythenorth> presumably RCT allowed multiple coaster track heights on same tile?
12:23:30 <andythenorth> otherwise loops etc wouldn’t work?
12:24:08 <peter1139> i guess. maybe not different types though.
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12:29:08 <andythenorth> is multiple map levels actually more fun? o_O
12:32:28 <Alberth> yes, you can have the same coaster passing the same tile several times. Other coasters work too
12:33:01 <Alberth> more fun depends on having loopings in our tracks, wouldn't it :D
12:34:26 <Alberth> basically you can build layers of transport then
12:35:16 <Alberth> a local train layer, a passing through layer, and a bus layer all on top of each other
12:35:37 <Alberth> useful in crowded cities, as we found out in RL :)
12:36:57 <Alberth> bridges and tunnels is our current limited form of layers
12:37:28 <Alberth> but you can't have a junction on a bridge
12:40:29 <michi_cc> Splitting tracks from ground is already done (except making the tile struct smaller afterwards).
12:40:57 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> tunnels, catenary, bridges... <-- the current "solution" to catenaries is to suppress drawing them when a bridge above is too low
12:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and obviously, elevated tracks won't be able to have tunnels, they have to transition to ground first
12:42:13 <andythenorth> how does FIRS cause an infinite loop in ottd?
12:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make a backtrace?
12:42:45 <andythenorth> there are no loops in nfo
12:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: infinite loops are definitely an openttd bug, not a firs bug
12:44:45 <andythenorth> I haven’t tried a repro
12:44:51 <andythenorth> no idea which FIRS
13:01:53 <Alberth> michi_cc: how do you store map tiles?
13:02:34 <Alberth> but to answer your question: it's not impossible, but not high on my list
13:05:14 <michi_cc> It's basically the RCT way (there's a web page somewhere). Instead of a 2D array like now it is an array containing an array for each map Y line. Each line has one or more Tile structs per TileIndex.
13:05:49 <michi_cc> A cache maps TileIndex -> Tile* for speed.
13:06:00 * andythenorth wonders if there’s a way to have multiple routes from one pickup station with cdist
13:07:43 <andythenorth> is it true that industries only distribute cargo to 2 stations with highest ratings
13:08:06 <andythenorth> those are two different questions :P Two different solutions to same problem
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13:10:45 <Eddi|zuHause> 1) yes, but gets tricky with more than, say, 4 destinations, 2) yes
13:10:49 <Alberth> latter seems true-ish, I remember rewriting such code once
13:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> try having distribution hubs, so each station has fewer next hops
13:13:39 <andythenorth> I never understood the cdist pickup behaviour, I’ve talked to fonso about it a few times
13:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> say you have one source A and 9 destinations {1..9}, then try making 3 hubs {X,Y,Z} so you have 3 routes: A->X->{1,2,3}, A->Y->{4,5,6} and A->Z->{7,8,9}
13:14:37 <andythenorth> if I add a route to an existing pickup station, cdist (1) seems to take a very long time to recognise the new links and allocate cargo (2) always appears to distribute more cargo to the first established route, even though AIUI it should be a 50:50 split (distance effect is 0)
13:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> if distribution takes long, you might have too many disconnected networks
13:15:34 <andythenorth> whereas, I have routes where cargo arriving at a a station is split between accepting industry and another route (transfer)
13:15:46 <andythenorth> which works perfectly, and near-instantly after building the route
13:16:12 <Alberth> (1) is a startup effect. Existing cargo at a station is never rerouted unless you remove the route, and a new distribution is computed only once every soo many days
13:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if using full load, it helps sending one train empty on a roundtrip at the start
13:16:44 <andythenorth> is that true, or is it superstition and voodoo?
13:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause> something inbetween. theoretically cargodist should figure it out based on orders, but i've seen that fail occasionally
13:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> also, cargodist might fail on autorefit
13:19:12 <andythenorth> I use station refit to explicit cargo
13:19:25 <andythenorth> which does very occasionally fail to perform the refit
13:19:29 <andythenorth> but they’re not connect I think
13:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well, cargodist's order-prediction can only work on the vehicle's current refit, not on the future potential refits
13:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so it might fail to detect valid routes if no vehicle ever goes there
13:21:11 * andythenorth continues to build single-route pickup stations
13:21:26 <andythenorth> the limitation of 2 is just another gameplay feature eh?
13:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose it was meant for competitors
13:22:26 <andythenorth> it’s fine, it’s just another constraint
13:22:42 <andythenorth> more what bothers me is that I should probably try and prove if/why cdist isn’t working right
13:22:46 <andythenorth> otherwise it can’t be fixed :P
13:46:02 <andythenorth> are vehicle rosters a BAD FEATURE?
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14:17:01 <Alberth> creating the possibility to make distinct experiences in picking vehicles? not necessarily, imho
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15:51:03 <Arkhip> hi, who can tell me pass for nice_server (ver. 1.5.3)?
16:09:50 <Alberth> did you check the server page?
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17:59:38 <__ln__> what are the WW2-era japanese fighters doing in the same village with modern-day trucks?
18:00:46 <Wolf01> I think the author started by doing one thing and then end up doing a mashup of different green things
18:01:16 <__ln__> (although yeah, i like the pic)
18:02:13 <Wolf01> Long time ago I started doing a similar work (futuristic factory) but I abandoned it because I don't know how to do details
18:02:33 <Alberth> looks a bit very green indeed (or rather, dark), but nice otherwise
18:04:04 <Wolf01> I would do brown/dark red roofs to catch the eye and break the green tint
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18:22:16 <Wolf01> Uhm, I really think that tomorrow evening I'll be here
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19:30:19 <Wolf01> I hope to not have given some weird idea to V :P
19:33:41 <Lejving> dickbutt is an animal
19:33:55 <Wolf01> Totally in V's style also
19:37:16 <Arkhip> Alberth, all servers 1.5.3 with pass
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27718 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-12-30 19:45:38 +0100 )
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 25 changes by Absay
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21:16:16 <lorran78> is this normal that fist with opengfx+industries make bank industries which create and accept nothing.
21:19:31 <lorran78> it seems it depends which one if first but if fist if first then another industries create and accept nothing :(
21:32:35 <michi_cc> lorran78: In general combining multiple industry NewGRFs will not work, unless there where explicitly designed to do so.
21:39:58 <andythenorth> lorran78: is it the only grf in your test game?
21:40:10 <andythenorth> there might be some town sets that add banks
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