IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-12-29
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02:27:18 <lorran78> how to use custom_tags in my nml?
02:27:46 <lorran78> name: string(STR_GRF_NAME) i use it but can't define it somewhere
02:35:24 <FLHerne_> lorran78: english.lng ?
03:36:11 <lorran78> i found after asking :p
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14:23:48 <Wolf01> Let's see if ottd blows up
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14:36:03 <Wolf01> How do I get a town size?
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14:53:47 <Wolf01> Not sure if best with 0 or 1 radii
14:54:23 <Wolf01> t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0] = mass * 15 - 40;
14:54:23 <Wolf01> t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[1] = mass * 9 - 15;
14:56:01 <Wolf01> Btw, it's easy to espose to get country roads
14:57:24 <peter1139> what makes that a country road?
14:58:07 <Wolf01> Any town, not one in particular
14:59:14 <Wolf01> I tried to do it the same way it's used to draw the tree ring in the cities
15:10:18 <_dp_> tz0 is also affected by funding
15:34:23 <Wolf01> So, it seem I now understand how stations in town influence town growth
15:38:21 <Alberth> one less mystery to solve by playing :(
15:38:54 <Wolf01> I always used 3 roadstops, but code says 5 is the best one
15:39:16 <Alberth> oh, coop claims 4, iirc
15:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know the number 5
15:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of 4
15:40:01 <Wolf01> Also, there isn't anything about passengers/mail transported, only ticks between load/unload
15:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, any cargo suffices
15:40:27 <Alberth> pax is just plentiful available :)
15:40:35 <Wolf01> So you can even leave your bus to "load if available"
15:41:47 <Alberth> won't make much difference, 2nd round, it's available anyway :)
15:41:50 <Wolf01> Arctic and tropic are a bit different, there's also the food goal
15:42:33 <Alberth> yep, quite tricky to serve desert cities well
15:43:37 <Alberth> don't think I ever bothered doing arctic cities
15:43:46 <Alberth> too many good industry chains :)
15:44:00 <Wolf01> No clue if is possible to make towns growth in zones, like commercial around stations which provide goods, houses around stations which move pax
15:44:49 <Alberth> "grow" is just building road, house, or replace house, isn't it?
15:45:25 <Alberth> so it depends on how it picks a new house
15:45:32 <Wolf01> I often find that commercial buildings move away from the place they started in small towns
15:45:47 <Wolf01> And try to cram into center of the town
15:46:07 <Wolf01> Leaving my unload station in suburbs not accepting goods anymore
15:46:15 <Alberth> houses have a zone, or a prefered zone or so?
15:47:04 <Alberth> city evolution leaves much to be desired :p
15:47:59 <Alberth> on the other hand, it's not a city simulation
15:49:17 <Wolf01> No, but placing (most of) all the commercial buildings in the other side of a city would provide a new piece of the puzzle to think about
15:49:30 <Wolf01> As it's now, any place in a big town is valid
15:57:59 <Alberth> lots of low hanging fruit there, is my guess
16:04:29 <Wolf01> I should get a leash to not be let free to roam in the code
16:06:09 <_dp_> It picks random house that's allowed in that zone and fits the spot (if > 1x1)
16:07:18 <_dp_> so there isn't much player can affect here
16:07:35 <_dp_> only mb blocking some tiles to not get 2x2 warehouses
16:10:12 <_dp_> well, I guess, funding and reserving kinda counts too
16:12:13 <Wolf01> At least until $someone patches the code
16:27:40 <_dp_> at this state I somewhat feel like doing patches for openttd is just a waste of time
16:27:49 <_dp_> No one is going to merge them anyway
16:33:28 <peter1139> free the oppressive regime of the devs!
16:33:44 <Wolf01> Was goint to write that... just fork the game or do a patchpack
16:36:10 <peter1139> Wolf01, how's the new version going?
16:36:12 <_dp_> noone will play that fork
16:37:12 <Wolf01> I'm trying to figure out how to import photoshop in ottd
16:37:26 <_dp_> because of mp incompatibility, and for sp there are plenty of patchpacks already
16:37:33 <peter1139> I'm trying to figure how to do a ttd-like game with no client state
16:38:43 <Alberth> big video wall attached to the server
16:38:44 <peter1139> By "trying to" I mean, just thought about wondering if it's possible.
16:40:14 <Alberth> it would only remove the initial load of a savegame upon connecting, wouldn't it?
16:41:51 <Wolf01> You only send commands to server which does all, and you see the result of the server execution
16:42:05 <peter1139> good for laggy connections then
16:42:22 <_dp_> as if ttd is any good on laggy connection :p
16:42:57 <Alberth> Wolf01: that already happens, in a MP, the server is the authority on performing commands
16:43:07 <Wolf01> _dp_, a bit polemic today?
16:43:10 <Alberth> it just sends commands back instead of pictures
16:43:56 <Wolf01> But there's client state
16:44:14 <Wolf01> If you remove client state you need to use more bandwidth
16:44:37 <Alberth> yep, send a video stream
16:45:21 <Alberth> google YT server might work :p
16:45:23 <Wolf01> Or at least commands to recreate the output
16:45:43 <Alberth> ^ but that happens now
16:46:09 <Alberth> oh, like drawing commands
16:46:30 <Alberth> having a lot of images available for local rendering is not state?
16:46:50 <Wolf01> Nah, they are resources
16:48:42 <Alberth> split the grid in bigger sized blocks, and send how to render an entire block if a client looks at it
16:49:21 <Alberth> so each client gets a number of blocks
16:49:54 <Alberth> at the same time server only needs to handle each block once
16:51:50 <Alberth> could this work for a GPU?
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17:38:13 <supermop> i wonder to what extent good functionalist design in game graphics, that makes a game so satisfying and timeless visually,
17:38:26 <supermop> actually hurts our engagement with it
17:39:07 <supermop> if a game is just about moving tiles to connect lines, it's a pretty puzzle,
17:40:03 <supermop> if the lines look like cartoon railways, or a dungeon maze, etc, it moves from puzzle to game, and our mind builds a little narrative
17:40:49 <Alberth> likely that's different from person to person
17:41:20 <Alberth> if you grow up now, you only see pseudo-realistic 3d stuff
17:41:38 <Alberth> abstract lines just look weird
17:42:39 <supermop> professional chess players all seem to play with the standard, sort of abstract pieces,
17:43:09 <supermop> but i wonder if casual players have more fun plaing with pieces that look like figurines of knights and soldiers
17:44:25 <Alberth> proffesional chess players build a whole world in their head
17:45:20 <supermop> Alberth: when i was gowing up in the 80s, we had this game:
17:45:38 <supermop> but the original version, from 1968 was like this:
17:45:46 <Alberth> however, I do think that game quality wins from whatever graphics you use
17:47:03 <Alberth> it's about first impression, I think
17:47:18 <Alberth> a deep game cannot be appreciated at a shelf
17:47:21 <supermop> so when ravensburger bought the rights from galt, they made a decision to move it from abstract in graphics and name, to a cartoonish world based on things from real life
17:48:27 <supermop> Alberth: yes, but when the game is also for children, something they can identify immediately probably is more engaging than pure gameplay unconnected to real world
17:48:44 <V453000> The original graphics are imo so great because they are believable, and extremely high quality pixel art
17:48:47 <supermop> because at first glance, they can't know if the game itself will be fun
17:49:21 <supermop> but they can guess that building little roads and railways sounds fun, even if the gameplay is bad
17:49:42 <V453000> Cough competition games cough
17:49:57 <supermop> where as plain lines looks forbidding, like something for boring adults,
17:50:41 <supermop> maybe it is fun to play, but the kid assumes they will have to spend boring time learning the rules without anything stimulating their imagination
17:50:58 <V453000> We should have rails look like cubes with pathfinder penalty numbers on them
17:51:38 <V453000> That is the case with everybody supermop, we are all kids in this :) ofc for children it applies a bit more
17:52:18 <supermop> V453000: but an adult might buy an abstract version of a game they may already be familiar with
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17:52:23 <andythenorth> suggestions thread is suggesty
17:52:27 <supermop> the market could be a bit different
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17:52:50 <supermop> maybe i want a classy chess set on my table instead of plastic simpsons chess
17:53:00 <Alberth> supermop: I wouldm't bet on that too much :)
17:53:12 <supermop> Alberth: not all adults
17:53:28 <V453000> Well, I basically totally agree, which is why I am trying to make BRIX v0.0.1 as good as I can, the first impression is key
17:53:32 <Alberth> andythenorth: you expected anything else than a suggestion thread in all possible directions?
17:53:45 <supermop> but some adults may have concerns of design etc that kids would not
17:53:51 <V453000> There is no reason why play with RAWR, it has more pixels but just looks shit
17:53:58 <Alberth> only for things they know, I think
17:54:00 <supermop> kids just want to have fun and use imagination
17:54:30 <V453000> What I am also trying to achieve is that the objects in the game look toyish, not serious realismish
17:54:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: it’s kind of doing what I was hoping
17:54:48 <andythenorth> somewhere in there, someone will have a good idea
17:54:48 <supermop> i think minimetro works even though it is so minimal, because it is minimal in a particular way that is world building
17:55:01 <andythenorth> or will realise why lots of the ideas aren’t useful
17:55:11 <andythenorth> V453000: new BRIX = winning
17:55:27 <V453000> Moar to come, wacoming like mad
17:55:30 <supermop> by making the graphics in the style of a metro map, you create the narative that you are struggling to run a subway in a busy city
17:55:49 <supermop> moreso that one cartoon train on one cartoon railway would
17:55:57 <supermop> V453000: also i agress
17:56:00 <Alberth> yes, graphics and story should match :p
17:56:11 <supermop> graphics for brix look great
17:56:45 <andythenorth> V453000: will you also fork FIRS and make BRIX style sprites? o_O
17:56:48 <V453000> Just needs the final polish, which is a lot of chanes but yeah
17:57:12 <supermop> andythenorth: hopefully it means 4-10 road grfs for different tastes, maybe half are stupid, half are fun, and then people figure out how they want to play with NRT
17:57:27 <V453000> If I ever manage to make BRIX replace all game sprites, I will make my ultimate winning train set
17:58:01 <supermop> andythenorth: i am struggling with skuemorphism
18:00:36 <supermop> V453000: making graphic language ape real world prototypes
18:00:55 <supermop> like the old instagram logo that looked like an old polaroid camera
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18:20:48 <Jiri> I am trying to get working these new 32 bit Zbase graffics
18:21:15 <Jiri> the loading screen everything is fine but when i open new game some items are old graffics.
18:21:43 <Jiri> like airports and roads. these are not yet made or what?
18:22:44 <Alberth> these games use NewGRFs ?
18:23:23 <Alberth> if they do, they likely do not have 32bit graphics, and then OpenTTD falls back onto the 8bit graphics that they do provide
18:24:16 <Alberth> OpenGFX and Zbase can't be used at the same time, as you can have only one baseset at a time
18:24:32 <Alberth> maybe you mean the various opengfx+... NewGRFs ?
18:25:14 <Jiri> look the picture maybe that will clarify the situation
18:25:42 <Alberth> airport and iron ore mine are fine, the city looks like crap :p
18:25:43 <Jiri> but like loading screen all the roads and airport are importet to 32 bit graffics
18:26:19 <Alberth> if you want 32bit everywhere, don't play with newgrfs that do not have 32bit graphics
18:26:30 <Alberth> loading screen has no newgrfs at all
18:29:14 <Alberth> you're likely confused by opengfx+industries and opengfx+airports
18:29:58 <Alberth> they are 8bit newgrfs, but use default (8 bit) graphics, so it looks like it's part of the baseset, but they are not
18:30:29 <Jiri> i just wanted that the game look little bit better.
18:30:59 <Alberth> start a game without those two newgrfs, and see if that solves your problem
18:31:46 <Alberth> I don't know, do you need more vehicles?
18:31:56 <Alberth> I never played with eGRVTS
18:33:08 <Jiri> i don't want new vehicles but nice looking roads
18:33:26 <Jiri> please explain me how i will have 32 bit roads
18:34:47 <Jiri> i think i got it now, i have to donwload abase set
18:35:19 <Alberth> zbase has 32bit roads
18:35:54 <Alberth> buit don't load newgrfs that are not 32bit
18:37:27 <Jiri> then why i don't see these 32 bit roads?
18:37:39 <Jiri> i still don't understand
18:37:50 <Alberth> have you tried a game without any newgrf ?
18:37:58 <Alberth> ie only zbase baseset
18:37:59 <Jiri> do i have to delete these newgrfs
18:38:05 <supermop> Jiri: you have a newgrf that adds 8 bit road graphics
18:38:16 <Alberth> no, just deactivate them
18:38:21 <supermop> no just do not load them in a game
18:38:40 <Jiri> thanks guys i got i working now
18:38:42 <supermop> in your picture it looks like you have UK roads
18:38:51 <supermop> which has 8 bit graphics
18:38:57 <Jiri> i tried to "upgrade" them
18:39:04 <supermop> andythenorth: et al, are things at a point yet where someone, possibly even myself, can make a NRT road grf?
18:39:45 <Alberth> Jiri: lots of artists are not here any more, or don't do 32bit
18:39:46 <supermop> i have sprites for melbourne inspired roads sitting on a hdd
18:40:15 <Jiri> but why not default use the zbase.
18:40:26 <Jiri> if you donwload the game today
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18:40:36 <supermop> Jiri: most people do not like zbase
18:40:41 <supermop> they think it is ugly
18:41:03 <supermop> notice how all of the buildings look flat and dead
18:43:03 <supermop> zephyris made zbase as a test to try to make a 32bit base set, because at that time there were no other complete sets that used 32bit
18:44:02 <Alberth> left column is a lot like what zbase is now
18:44:23 <Alberth> right column is infinitely better
18:45:19 <Alberth> 8bit graphics are much closer to the right column, so many people prefer that over the left column
18:45:20 <supermop> zbase is just basic example of 32bit, it is not finished with texture like the right column
18:46:30 <supermop> also, the original game is from 1994 - and the 8 bit graphics capture the spirit of that time, which many people enjoy
18:48:30 <Jiri> i think everyone how now a days downlaod this game has played in their childhood
18:48:59 <Jiri> but the orginal 94 game is totally different allready. so many good changes has happened since that
18:50:08 <supermop> Jiri: yes, but not many artists enjoy making 32bit graphics, so there are very few of them
18:51:07 <andythenorth> supermop: you could make an NRT grf, if you can install the nml fork
18:51:12 <andythenorth> not sure that’s trivial on windows
18:51:21 <LordAro> also, zbase baseset is *massive* download
18:51:42 <LordAro> isn't it 400MB or so?
18:51:47 <supermop> if you use basic 3d model and basic rendering, you end up with huge file size, but still dead look
18:52:03 <Jiri> well rawr and yeti both are about the same
18:52:18 <supermop> so you need to use professional technique to make better graphics
18:52:40 <LordAro> even so, it's a far cry from the ~10MB download for the game itself
18:52:51 <supermop> Jiri: V453000 is a professional graphic artist with professional rendering software and experience
18:53:43 <peter1139> zbase is not very pleasant.
18:53:53 <supermop> most artists for openttd do not have that experience
18:54:20 <LordAro> still not fixed those ACTIONs, i see :)
18:54:45 <supermop> even i am a professional architect who uses professional software, and I do not have the experience to do production like V453000
18:55:21 <LordAro> there definitely used to be more 32bpp artists
18:55:36 <peter1139> so why does openttd's cursor disappear in windows?
18:55:37 <LordAro> i tried to organise them all, once upon a time
18:56:32 <LordAro> iirc, several of them got scared off when some licencing snaffu happened
18:57:05 <supermop> andythenorth: can i just put together sprite sheet and try to write some code and give to someone to compile?
18:58:25 <Jiri> thanks guys i will no test different types graffics but yeti and rawr look nice
18:58:40 <supermop> Wolf01: do your country roads have the ability to use different decorations?
18:59:03 <supermop> ie can sidewalk/tree/lamp graphics vary by road type?
18:59:54 <Wolf01> Roadtypes define all, you should be able to define a different subset of graphics to use outside towns, no other changes like speed limits, only graphics
19:01:35 <supermop> can towns build only the default roadtype?
19:01:51 <Wolf01> Or the one which replaces it
19:02:49 <supermop> so they cannot build dirt roads on edges of town and paved inside town - they can only build a road that looks like dirt outside and looks like paved inside
19:03:38 <Wolf01> If you make a roadtype like that, yes
19:03:49 <Wolf01> But I didn't try to replace the default one yet
19:04:03 <supermop> separate from ideas to make a grf with sprites i have already, i was thinking about the dirt/stone -> asphalt problem
19:04:04 <Alberth> and create all kinds of compatibility issues with vehicles entering or leaving? that sounds like a bad idea
19:04:42 <Wolf01> No Alberth, it's the same roadtype, only with different graphics
19:04:57 <supermop> currently road new grfs just fake it and you have to reload save after some date to go from old to new
19:05:13 <supermop> but what if you could set a property for town prefernce
19:05:26 <Alberth> Wolf01: I know, and I think that's a good decision, I am arguing against different road types
19:05:46 <Wolf01> You can already wall-in a city with HAUL
19:06:18 <supermop> so town prefers aphalt most, stone next, and dirt least
19:06:39 <supermop> but in year 0 only dirt exists
19:06:42 <Wolf01> supermop, there's no concept of asphalt, stone, dirt and never will be
19:07:02 <Wolf01> There's a concept of road/tramway and speed limit
19:07:21 <Wolf01> A town could prefer a roadtype with 50kmh speed limit or one with 70kmh
19:07:25 <supermop> a road grf could introduce three types of road with different speed limits that look like those
19:08:03 <supermop> and set them so that a town prefers to build the 'asphalt' one once it becomes available?
19:08:34 <supermop> iff a town has the choice to build from more than one type of road
19:09:50 <Wolf01> Will require too many changes right now, and it's out of the scope of NRT
19:09:50 <Alberth> or, what prevents it from just picking one all the time
19:10:09 <supermop> Alberth: set a value for each type that town prefers
19:10:29 <supermop> prefers modern road the most, but it is not available until modern times
19:10:35 <supermop> so it build the old road
19:10:47 <supermop> Alberth: i know, but was wondering if it could
19:10:53 <Alberth> unless your newgrf provides it
19:11:12 <Alberth> but there is still 1 roadtype today
19:11:32 <supermop> Alberth: so now town always builds 1 type
19:11:45 <Alberth> every town builds the same type
19:12:15 <supermop> but maybe a newgrf provides two types of roads, so all towns build type 1 until some date, then they build type 2
19:12:17 <Alberth> you can change graphics though, as far as I understand it
19:12:42 <Alberth> like I said, hello world of compatibility issues
19:13:01 <Alberth> but it's also not existing
19:13:39 <supermop> why does, say, increasing speed limit of town built roads in 1910, cause compatibility trouble?
19:14:00 <Alberth> who says you'd have to use compatible road types?
19:14:12 <Alberth> each road type is separate
19:14:40 <supermop> a newgrf author can make today a rail grf that no train can ever run on
19:15:08 <Alberth> and you want that in a city, where it changes without a player control?
19:15:18 <Alberth> how is that good game play?
19:15:43 <supermop> hows is that rail grf good? i just choose not to use a newgrf that was made in bad faith
19:16:10 <Alberth> I put rail down myself
19:16:17 <Alberth> it doesn't change by itself
19:16:43 <supermop> a road speed limit increasing by itself does not hurt the player
19:17:06 <Alberth> I am not saying there are no good examples
19:17:22 <supermop> if the grf provides a 2nd road type incompatible from the first, i choose not to play with that grf
19:17:24 <Alberth> I am saying there are also a lot of troublesome counter examples
19:18:01 <supermop> i can make a road grf that changes all road to bright flashing magenta in 1992
19:18:05 <supermop> but no one would use it
19:18:42 <Alberth> most people wouldn't even see it :p
19:19:01 <Alberth> in current openttd, at least
19:19:53 <supermop> i can also make a town grf that provides 0 population in every house available from 1990 onwards
19:20:17 <supermop> so without my control, all of my passenger stations become worthless
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27717 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2016-12-29 19:45:38 +0100 )
19:45:50 <DorpsGek> spanish: 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
19:58:47 <supermop> are bus stop graphics going to be per road grf, or by base set?
20:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think bus stops will change with this patch
20:06:04 <supermop> just wondering if i can change how they look on a per-type basis
20:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> not unless you want to implement newgrf road stations (including state machines)
20:16:41 <Rubidium> just have state machines for everything then ;)
20:16:49 <peter1139> doesn't make sense to make 2 ways to change them
20:18:17 <Rubidium> so you can have platforms on one side of the tile and the track on the other, or even a siding on one half of the tile with the main track on the other side
20:18:57 <Rubidium> all, ofcourse, including signals and arbitrary z-height changes
20:22:48 <peter1139> might as well wait for Wolf01's new version
20:27:51 <Wolf01> Sure, junctions in the middle of a station
20:35:51 <andythenorth> supermop: sorry I am afk for rest of day, can’t answer nml questions
20:36:37 <supermop> sorry to guy who is one tab before andy
20:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> why is athat even? is your tab not in alphabetical order?
20:57:41 <supermop> maybe i tabbed too much
21:01:21 <supermop> hmm what my little harbour needs is tramway on isr or chips style tiles
21:13:50 <supermop> i wonder, if a big heavy truck drives to an industry where all the ground is cobblestones, does the truck drive on the cobbles? or do they have some concrete path for it
21:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what does the cobble have to do with that?
21:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> for heavy trucks you want to have a sturdy underconstruction
21:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and concrete probably wears off quicker than cobbles
21:20:05 <supermop> if you had a road type that was a tile of cobblestones, you need some kind of visual marker to show where the RVs can actually drive
21:21:07 <supermop> if it was regular road graphics in the center and cobblestones at the tile edges, it would blend with the rest of the industry or harbour, but would look silly
21:21:19 <supermop> a tramway on cobblestone is easy
21:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand the problem
21:24:42 <supermop> lets say i want to make a road grf that adds a new road type: cobbled yard
21:25:06 <supermop> i want the road to look like a full tile of cobblestones, with no grass at the sides
21:25:49 <supermop> so i can build a fancy harbour or whatever and it looks like the trucks are driving around some industrial complex
21:26:34 <supermop> if the road is a full tile of stones, there is no way for the player to tell what road bits are there or connected
21:27:09 <supermop> if it was a full tile of concrete, maybe you paint some stripes on it, but that might look bad on cobblestone
21:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there are cobble roads with a different type of cobble where the wheels of a car would go... but i can't find a picture of that
21:30:52 <supermop> like maybe a darker stone there?
21:31:36 <supermop> maybe i could put some gutters at the 'road' edge
21:39:56 <supermop> i think having them under wheels bight make them look too much like tram tracks, but if i just do the outside edges, that should work
21:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> under the wheels should be darker
21:41:51 <supermop> hmm the isr gravel shows some of the groundtile through
21:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or make the whole lane out of the darker cobbles
21:42:03 <supermop> i wonder if that will be a problem
22:25:13 <lorran78> i managed to change introduction date from all type of original vehicules...
22:26:19 <lorran78> but i wanted now to make a grf with all vehicle without using opengfx+ but it seems it doesn't work
22:28:54 <DorpsGek> __ln__: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 21 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky...
22:29:08 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 4 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 12 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
22:29:13 <lorran78> i tried opengfx+ first in the list of grf and end
22:29:22 <lorran78> but same my vehicle are twice :/
22:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: you need the "override vehicles of other grf" feature, look it up on the wiki
22:36:32 <lorran78> it's a parameter i must add?
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23:48:20 <__ln__> anyone been to Seattle?
23:53:08 <Supercheese> yeah been a few times
23:53:12 <Supercheese> the monorail is reeeally short
23:53:22 <Supercheese> like, you almost might as well walk
23:53:48 <lorran78> eddi ? i can't find something about override
23:54:31 <lorran78> and i have a question when i override it override only the property i set or it's reset all properties and put only mine?
23:54:52 <__ln__> is it an interesting place to visit otherwise?
23:57:47 <__ln__> and is there something to see about boeing?
23:59:25 <supermop> __ln__: its a decent city
23:59:43 <supermop> there are plenty of good food and drink spots
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