IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-11-26
⏴ go to previous day
00:18:43 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC
00:27:51 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
00:27:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
01:29:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
01:34:00 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
01:34:19 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
02:10:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
02:53:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
02:57:31 *** techmagus has joined #openttd
02:57:31 *** behalebabo has joined #openttd
02:57:31 *** CompuDesktop has joined #openttd
02:57:31 *** umgeher has joined #openttd
02:57:31 *** Sirenia has joined #openttd
02:57:31 *** fiatjaf has joined #openttd
02:57:31 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd
02:57:31 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd
03:01:51 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
03:01:51 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** Taylor- has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** greeter has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** innocenat has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** davidstrauss has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** Warrigal has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** Extrems has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd
03:03:41 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd
03:05:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v orudge
03:05:38 *** LongyanG has joined #openttd
03:53:58 *** Jinassi has joined #openttd
06:08:10 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd
06:26:37 <Flygon> Is there a chart that shows pax. loading speeds for non-Metro EMUs?
06:27:01 <Flygon> I'm interested on if the Red Rattlers do actually unload/reload as fast as Metro EMUs, given they're almost entirely doors
06:36:39 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
06:37:57 <sim-al2> Pretty narrow doors though
06:39:31 <Flygon_> Yeah, but half the EMU is still doors :U
06:39:40 <Flygon_> Sliding Door sets had a similiar quirk
06:39:56 <Flygon_> (They're both rebuilds of carriage-only stock, only door types differentiated them)
06:40:17 <Flygon_> (Hence, everyone just called them both Red Rattlers. Electronically and mechanically the same thing)
06:40:32 <sim-al2> Don't forget that the guard or station staff might have to close doors left open
06:40:49 <Flygon_> Trust me, they didn't give a crap :D
06:41:02 <Flygon_> VERY common for Swing Door sets to run around with their doors left open
06:41:25 <sim-al2> Wouldn't the doors hit if two trains with doors open passed each other?
06:41:32 <Flygon_> ...this did, incidentally, result in door removals caused by the doors hidding a tunnel wall
06:41:38 <Flygon_> Nah, the loading gauge wasn't that tight
06:41:44 <sim-al2> I don't know how generous the metropolitan loading gauge is
06:41:57 <Flygon_> Keep in mind, when they converted a fair few of the Swing Door sets, some were 40 years old
06:42:01 <sim-al2> lol losing doors is still kinda bad
06:42:11 <sim-al2> Might make a big mess
06:42:15 <Flygon_> They had 40 years to think about if they really REALLY wanted to convert them all to sliding doors :D
06:42:29 <Flygon_> Well, it certainly made the EMUs/Steam Hauled units look like they had gaps in the teeth
06:42:34 <Flygon_> OH&S simply didn't exist
06:43:18 <Flygon_> Keep in mind, we were like, the Southern Hemisphere's busiest railway from the 1860s through to... 1960sish (?)
06:43:42 <Flygon_> VR clearly saw the benefit in having more doors than a rich person's house
06:43:44 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
06:44:21 <Flygon> Though, the EMUs they got in the 1950s had only three (quite wide) doors, so presumably some revised math came in around then
06:44:24 <sim-al2> Seems to be quite similar to UK practice, where suburban EMUs had a similar deisgn going
06:44:28 <Flygon> Keep in mind, more doors = Less pax capacity
06:44:36 <Flygon> Yeah, well, we were a British colony :P
06:45:06 <Flygon> Our technological evolution was basically "Clone British stock, then see what cool shit the Germans and Americans are doing and clone that too"
06:45:46 <sim-al2> I suppose it's a viable design for high level platforms, probably explains why the UK stuck with it long after the Europeans moved to more familar designs
06:46:52 <sim-al2> Hell I think BR still had some compartment-type EMUs running in the mid 80's
06:47:01 <Flygon> Yeah. We went with high-level platforms since the 1850s
06:47:08 <Flygon> Or - As soon as we laid the first track, really.
06:49:18 <Flygon> "Near South Yarra. It was arranged for the special to parallel the Harris suburban train as far as Caulfield so that fans could photograph and film the special on the way. I stayed on the special and photographed the Harris. Considering that there are preserved Swing-door trains and no preserved Harris trains, it was fortunate."
06:51:17 <Flygon> But, yeah. 3 (wide) doors on Harrises, but better pax capacity. It was the design Melbourne used ever since (Including on X'traps... I still wish 2CC set had a toggle for X'traps to be both Chilean and Australian :B), except for the Siemens.
06:51:39 <Flygon> But the Siemens was enough of a shitstorm for them to be blacklisted from Government-related Railway projects >_>
06:52:28 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
06:52:29 <Flygon> There was enough space between the tracks that the doors, swinging out, could never really hit another train
06:52:47 <user_8475> sun is not doing allah is doing
06:52:54 <user_8475> moon is not doing allah is doing
06:53:00 <Flygon> Oh, for fucks sake. Not another bot.
06:53:02 <user_8475> stars are not doing allah is doing
06:53:10 <user_8475> planets are not doing allah is doing
06:53:12 <Flygon> Paging planetmaker Rubidium Terkhen orudge
06:53:13 <sim-al2> Does this happen a lot?
06:53:18 <user_8475> galaxies are not doing allah is doing
06:53:27 <user_8475> oceans are not doing allah is doing
06:53:34 <user_8475> mountains are not doing allah is doing
06:53:41 <user_8475> trees are not doing allah is doing
06:53:49 <user_8475> mom is not doing allah is doing
06:53:55 <user_8475> dad is not doing allah is doing
06:53:55 <Flygon> sim-al2: Enough so that it's become kinda blase
06:54:02 <user_8475> boss is not doing allah is doing
06:54:09 <user_8475> job is not doing allah is doing
06:54:13 <sim-al2> Hmm that picture makes the swing-door trains look pretty narrow actually
06:54:15 <user_8475> dollar is not doing allah is doing
06:54:21 <user_8475> degree is not doing allah is doing
06:54:25 <sim-al2> Also my boss is totally doing
06:54:31 <user_8475> medicine is not doing allah is doing
06:54:38 <Flygon> sim-al2: Yeah. VR were quite conservative when they tried.
06:54:40 <user_8475> customers are not doing allah is doing
06:54:53 <user_8475> you can not get a job without the permission of allah
06:55:14 <Flygon> This same sort of thing results in things like "Heavy Harry" managing to look gigantically imposing, while being not too much bigger than the biggest of British locomotives.
06:55:17 <user_8475> you can not get married without the permission of allah
06:55:33 <sim-al2> Ok mr bot is getting annoying now
06:55:40 <user_8475> nobody can get angry at you without the permission of allah
06:55:44 <Flygon> (Harry's tiny compared to some American locos. But 4.5k horsepower still isn't much to scoff at. They packed a lot of shit into a relatively tight loading gauge)
06:56:11 <Flygon> (Was also VR's first loco to use three cylinders... VR really really wanted to keep maintainence costs down on any loco)
06:56:17 <Flygon> Well, that was anti-climactic
06:56:21 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
06:56:26 <user_8475> light is not doing allah is doing
06:56:32 <user_8475> fan is not doing allah is doing
06:56:41 <user_8475> businessess are not doing allah is doing
06:56:48 <user_8475> america is not doing allah is doing
06:56:52 <Flygon> I mean, I'd spam a lot of weird furry porn into it's inbox with /query, but that's probably against some sort of OFTC policy
06:56:59 <user_8475> fire can not burn without the permission of allah
06:57:05 <sim-al2> Also this is some really terrible philosphical interpretation
06:57:27 <Flygon> I'm not sure anyone mods are actually on
06:57:38 <user_8475> knife can not cut without the permission of allah
06:57:46 <sim-al2> I have a suspicion that nobody actually checks the bot's PMs anyway
06:57:57 <Flygon> And I have no idea if we're allowed to drag network opers into this, given this's ambiguously either a bot, or a teenager :U
06:58:12 <Flygon> Yeah, but the idea is to DDoS the bot into disconnecting with weird porn :U
06:58:23 <Flygon> Like, weird, not disgusting.
06:58:32 <sim-al2> Well I think that the bot can safely be considered spam
06:58:46 <Flygon> True, but it's still channel spam.
06:58:58 <Flygon> Urgh, I don't know enough about OFTC's internal beaurocracy.
06:59:18 <user_8475> rulers are not doing allah is doing
06:59:22 <Flygon> Like, this other network I'm on, the rules are EXPLICITLY clear that opers don't interfere with individual channel's affairs
06:59:25 <user_8475> governments are not doing allah is doing
06:59:43 <Flygon> But there is provisions to handle spambots, or in this case, a guy that's clearly reading the chatroom text :U
07:00:22 <user_8475> sleep is not doing allah is doing
07:00:28 <user_8475> hunger is not doing allah is doing
07:00:32 <Flygon> (They're traditonally Blue-Yellow)
07:00:39 <sim-al2> Speaking of sleep I need to do that soon
07:00:59 <sim-al2> tbh I think the green and gold looks nice
07:01:04 <Flygon> Oh jeeze, I just nearly crashed my client using /list
07:01:09 <Flygon> I forgot how big OFTC is
07:01:20 <Flygon> sim-al2: Yeah, but it's still an odd colour if you're use to Royal Blue :D
07:01:32 <user_8475> food does not take away the hunger allah takes takes away the hunger
07:01:50 <Flygon> You'll need to copypasta that URL
07:02:22 <user_8475> water does not take away the thirst allah takes away the thirst
07:02:30 <user_8475> seeing is not doing allah is doing
07:02:38 <user_8475> hearing is not doing allah is doing
07:02:44 <user_8475> seasons are not doing allah is doing
07:02:50 <user_8475> weather is not doing allah is doing
07:02:58 <user_8475> humans are not doing allah is doing
07:02:59 <Flygon> Dafuk, he's on about Weather now?
07:03:06 <user_8475> animals are not doing allah is doing
07:03:14 <Flygon> Everyone knows the Weather's caused by British conversation.
07:03:47 <user_8475> the best amongst you is he who learns the quran and teaches it
07:04:20 <Flygon> It looks like a log of cheese
07:04:41 <sim-al2> Looks like some kind of maintainence paint scheme
07:04:55 <Flygon> It was used to grease the rails
07:05:06 <user_8475> one letter read from book of allah amounts to one good deed and allah multiplies one good deed ten times
07:05:18 <sim-al2> Kinda funny that almost every railway uses a similar shade of yellow for MoW stuff
07:05:43 <user_8475> hearts get rusted as does iron with water to remove rust from heart recitation of quran and rememberance of death
07:05:45 <sim-al2> Well I guess modern equipment isn't necessairly so, but still
07:05:52 <Flygon> Modern equipment here is...
07:05:54 <user_8475> heart is likened to a mirror
07:06:11 <user_8475> when a person commits one sin a black dot sustains the heart
07:06:43 <sim-al2> I've seen the small self-propelled stuff that use they during heavy maintainence in orange paint a lot
07:07:05 <sim-al2> But yeah a lot of track machinery is yellow
07:07:08 <user_8475> to accept islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except allah and muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
07:07:20 <Flygon> The EMU is a Harris unit, seriously.
07:07:33 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
07:07:34 <sim-al2> Inspection unit I assume?
07:07:35 <Flygon> It was converted to non-self propelled running
07:07:45 <Flygon> Then re-converted to electric running between locos
07:08:33 <Flygon> Not that it doesn't look it :P
07:08:42 <sim-al2> Yeah I figured that with the dome on the roof and decidely non-standard pantographs, but you never know
07:08:53 <sim-al2> wow that's rather interesting
07:09:11 <Flygon> Well, Harris Pantos haven't been made in 60 years. Gotta give-em a break for improvising. :P
07:09:23 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
07:09:50 <sim-al2> Yes random bot I'm going to click on your sketchy links
07:10:23 <user_8475> allah created the sky without any pillars
07:11:29 <user_8475> allah makes the sun rise from the east and allah makes the sun set in the west
07:11:51 <sim-al2> I assume the new cab and (partial) body rework is for crew comfort
07:12:06 <Flygon> And the OFTC website is cryptic as to who to PM
07:12:09 <sim-al2> You can see the orginal portion at the top and rear
07:12:24 <Flygon> Yeah, I can see what you mean :D
07:12:40 <user_8475> allah makes the day into the night and allah makes the night into the day
07:13:15 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
07:13:50 <kode54> I was already on this network anyway
07:14:02 <kode54> figured I'd help report the mess, but it looks like the idiot has gone
07:14:32 <Flygon> But he's gone mysteriously silent. Maybe your aura shut him up. :U
07:14:54 <Flygon> Until he resumes again.
07:15:13 <Flygon> sim-al2: They look kinda like Hippos
07:15:19 <sim-al2> Hmmm I see that in some photos the Harris units had only a driver-side window while some others have windows on both sides
07:15:44 <Flygon> Yeah, iirc, the later ones got two Windows due to drivers kinda sorta wanting them.
07:16:04 <kode54> the ident is another valid IP
07:16:25 <Flygon> Every time he's /quit and rejoined, it's been the same hostmask.
07:16:39 <kode54> 109.201.131.48 is the ident
07:16:51 <Flygon> I'm beginning to suspect the bot just ran out of stuff to spam
07:17:26 <kode54> either it's the originator, or this guy is bouncing multiple times
07:18:33 <sim-al2> Dropped a .org.za web link
07:19:08 <kode54> last I recall, they were linking to Quran reference sites
07:19:11 <sim-al2> That only begs further questions
07:19:30 <sim-al2> I think, not really planning to click on them without precautions
07:20:29 <sim-al2> Although it could defintely have a genset in there
07:20:41 <Flygon> I wonder why they'd have it non-powered
07:20:46 <Flygon> Sensitivity of the equipment?
07:21:24 <sim-al2> Oh whoops it is powered
07:22:21 <Flygon> btw, it would seem Red Rattlers in the 2CC-set have near-Metro-like speeds in unloading/reloading
07:22:43 <Flygon> It seems the set designers took into account the amount of doorage
07:23:02 <sim-al2> Although 2cc also has the RENFE high-speed trains with metro-like loading speed, so maybe take it with a grain of salt
07:23:06 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
07:23:36 <Flygon> The ones that look like a duck?
07:24:01 <Flygon> Though, the RENFE HST may've been a bug
07:24:14 <sim-al2> Err not the duck ones, the regional 250 km/h ones
07:24:25 <Flygon> Wait, got a unit type ID for me?
07:24:30 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
07:24:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
07:24:31 <sim-al2> I can't remember the class name right now, but it loads incredibly quickly
07:24:34 <Flygon> Also, I wonder if they're using that-
07:24:54 <kode54> that ip is someone's kiwiirc server
07:25:00 <kode54> and the ident is the ip address they're connected from
07:25:00 <Flygon> While user_8475's quiet as fuck atm, he's actually an Allah-bot
07:25:07 <Flygon> HE would not shut up for 45 minutes
07:25:13 <Flygon> I couldn't get a hold of any oper's
07:25:18 <kode54> feel free to report them both to their respective ISPs
07:25:26 <Flygon> And kode54's been biopsying the shit out of this
07:25:42 <kode54> I wouldn't call it much effort
07:25:47 <kode54> just whois on two ip addresses
07:25:53 <Flygon> I know you can't quite trust me until he restarts his babbling, but I'm gonna have to ask for a good /kickban when he does. @_@
07:26:00 <kode54> and recognizing that 8 digit hex ident as an ip address
07:26:21 <sim-al2> Even though the real thing was one narrow-ish door per car
07:26:33 <kode54> and now that recent quit, since it managed to stay connected long enough to advertise its default quit message
07:26:46 <Alberth> I think you have very wrong ideas about me
07:27:01 <Flygon> Oh, yeah, that's definitely not suppose to load fadt
07:29:37 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
07:33:20 <Flygon> That RENFE is definitely not suppose to load that fast
07:33:21 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
07:33:32 <Flygon> Alberth: You're the first ANYONE with the power to do something to be able to help x.x
07:37:59 <user_8475> allah gives life and allah gives death
07:38:09 <Flygon> Annnd there he fucking goes
07:38:14 <user_8475> all creation are useless,worthless,hopeless
07:38:20 <Flygon> Alberth: But... you got the OP powers @_@
07:38:41 <user_8475> allah is the doer of each and everything
07:38:59 <user_8475> when allah wants us to stand we stand
07:39:10 <user_8475> when allah wants us to sit we sit
07:39:22 <Alberth> yeah, but so little clue what to type :(
07:39:38 <kode54> okay, I don't know what to think about that
07:39:46 *** user_8475 has joined #openttd
07:39:55 <user_8475> i am not doing allah is doing
07:40:01 <user_8475> you are not doing allah is doing
07:40:10 <user_8475> atom bomb is not doing allah is doing
07:40:11 <Flygon> Alberth: We'll record the user data
07:40:11 <kode54> you can /mode #openttd +b *!6dc98930@107.161.19.109
07:40:18 <user_8475> rice is not doing allah is doing
07:40:30 <Flygon> Do what kode54 typed @_@
07:40:31 <kode54> and /kick #openttd user_8475 bye
07:40:37 <user_8475> all creation get together can not create one grain of rice
07:40:40 *** Alberth sets mode: +b *!6dc98930@107.161.19.109
07:41:18 <kode54> why are you an op if you don't know common IRC management commands?
07:41:28 *** user_8475 was kicked by Alberth (bye)
07:41:52 <sim-al2> wow that bot was really getting around
07:42:07 <Flygon> Thank you, a tonne, kode54 >_<
07:42:09 <kode54> that will keep that particular user out
07:42:16 <kode54> no telling if that IP will do other idents
07:42:25 <kode54> in case this idiot has other shells they can connect through
07:42:40 <sim-al2> In a bunch of debian channels, mingw channels, and https-everywhere
07:42:57 <kode54> I'll see about reporting that combination of ips to their owners
07:43:23 <kode54> kiwiirc owner will probably want to ban whoever that is, if they care about their server
07:46:47 <Flygon> We do need to work on getting additional staff. Allahbots keep popping up around this time.
07:47:09 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:50:18 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
07:50:33 <user_9484> all humans get together can not stop rain
07:50:48 <user_9484> all humans get together can not make anybody hungry
07:50:56 <Flygon> Paging kode54, Alberth
07:51:05 <user_9484> all humans get together can not move sun one second up or down
07:51:14 <user_9484> we can not count the hair on our head
07:51:17 <Flygon> This may be a good time to teach Alberth just HOW the specific ban method was come up with.
07:51:21 <user_9484> we can not count the rain drops
07:51:33 <user_9484> we can not count the particles of sand
07:51:41 <user_9484> medicine has no power to cure
07:51:43 <Flygon> btw, this same user's in a fucktonne of channels already
07:51:50 <Flygon> We should probably try and get an OPER in
07:51:55 <user_9484> two people take same medicine one passes away and one does not
07:52:02 <user_9484> degree has no power to give job
07:52:13 <user_9484> many people have degrees but do not have jobs
07:52:21 <user_9484> sustenance does not depend on effort
07:52:24 <Alberth> yep, it won't do much good
07:52:37 <Flygon> I mean, it'll shut it up in #openttd, at the very least
07:52:43 <user_9484> one person is working very much but is earning very less
07:52:52 <Alberth> a /ignore works too :p
07:52:56 <user_9484> other person is working very less but is earning very much
07:53:22 <Flygon> They said that about School bullies, and it never got to the root cause of the problem :U
07:53:44 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
07:54:28 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
07:56:09 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
07:58:30 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
07:59:25 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
08:06:39 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
08:12:49 <kode54> same kiwi server, different remote ip
08:16:50 <kode54> another nforce.com user
08:17:21 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
08:22:51 <Alberth> maybe irc is just a bad idea :p
08:23:37 <Elec_A> Hello, May I ask someone please tell me, which file contains the main function of openttd? I am search the files but I cannot find it.
08:26:40 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
08:27:07 <Elec_A> depend.cpp, endian_check.cpp and G5_detector.cpp contain "int main" but none of them are the main function of the program.
08:28:36 <Elec_A> I think I found it. it is in openttd.cpp
08:29:45 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
08:34:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:40:21 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
08:41:32 *** user_9484 has joined #openttd
08:41:47 *** ConductCat has joined #openttd
08:42:25 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:45:25 <Alberth> Elec_A: there is src/os/* the main entry point for each type of OS, which then points to openttd.cpp
08:46:12 <Alberth> not sure how useful that is though, it will take ages of searching before finding the low level stuff, that way
08:47:57 <Elec_A> Alberth: Thank you. I'm just interested in studying the code. I'm not going to put my whole time on it. I thought maybe it would be a good programming exercise.
08:48:23 <Alberth> andythenorth: it's useful for BB :)
08:49:08 <andythenorth> if the graph had been available when I was designing Extreme, it would have come out very differently :)
08:49:19 <Alberth> Elec_A: it may be more useful to study a particular area, openttd.cpp does a lot of high level stuff, calling other high level stuff, it's very easy to get completely lost there
08:49:24 <andythenorth> ‘designing’ is th wrong word even :P
08:49:40 <Alberth> "throwing together" works :p
08:50:29 <Alberth> I think it was a good strategy though, you could concentrate on making sprites,and getting the code generation up
08:51:30 <Elec_A> Alberth: So how can you add stuff to this game when you don't have overall understanding of the code? you know what I mean? Imagine you are going to add another window to the game, don't you need to write the code of that window in a way that it works optimally with other areas?
08:52:07 <andythenorth> optimally is the wrong quality measure there
08:52:32 <Alberth> Elec_A: I know, working in openttd code since 2007, haven't studied 1/2 of it yet :p
08:52:45 <andythenorth> openttd is quite similar to working on a big web app
08:53:03 <andythenorth> lots of it is quite boxed off, independent, and there’s no sense of a single purpose or vision
08:53:13 <Elec_A> Alberth: wow, So don't you think you have reduced the efficiency of the code? :)
08:53:14 <andythenorth> other aspects tangle their way through everything
08:53:37 <andythenorth> the primary efficiency goal is probably avoiding network desyncs
08:53:39 <Elec_A> andythenorth: oh got it.
08:53:51 <andythenorth> and then making it easy to delete / change / code review
08:54:03 <andythenorth> my included patches count is about 2
08:54:07 <andythenorth> and one of those is sprites
08:54:15 <Alberth> well, you typicially look at some other windows to get some ideas how it looks. Then you study the area whatever you want to display or control from the window, then start experimenting
08:54:57 <Alberth> Elec_A: at 300,000+ lines of code, nobody knows every detail
08:55:15 <Elec_A> andythenorth: you know when I write a code and when I want to add some new features, I see that If I redo a major part of the code, it would run faster.
08:55:18 <Alberth> so as andy says, you work in sub-areas
08:55:39 <andythenorth> (scroll to picture)
08:56:08 <Elec_A> Alberth: I see. what a great reference is that! Thank you !
08:56:15 <Elec_A> I mean andythenorth :)
08:56:22 <Elec_A> andythenorth: Thats a great reference.
08:57:10 <andythenorth> I don’t think it’s a fair representation of a lot of the code :)
08:57:27 <Alberth> and yeah, we might have a sub-optimal piece of code, in fact, I am quite sure of that. Rewriting it is no option though
08:58:20 <Alberth> at best, you find these things, and locally improve
08:58:20 <Elec_A> Alberth: Oh, thank you, so we cannot say that openttd is 100% optimal
08:58:39 <Alberth> I don't think you can say that either for any of your programs
08:59:08 <Alberth> it would mean you have verified the solution against all other possible solutions, and found no better one
08:59:34 <Alberth> since "all other possible solutions" is infinitely large, that would take a while
09:00:12 <andythenorth> openttd is ‘optimal’ in that it is one of the most successful open source games
09:00:12 <Alberth> oh, did I mention the program runs at a multitude of CPUs and operating systems?
09:01:05 <Alberth> and motherboards, disk speeds, memory speeds, etc etc
09:01:26 <Elec_A> Alberth: Actually, when I'm talking about being optimal, What comes into my mind is some optimizations in loops and memory consumption. So instead of going through a large loop, using a parralel loop is optimization in my point of view, or reducing the number of generated classes to avoid memory leakages is what I meant.
09:02:15 <Alberth> oh, not doing obviously stupid stuff :)
09:02:30 <Alberth> for as far as possible
09:02:30 <Elec_A> andythenorth: I agree with that. I love this opensource game :)
09:03:16 <Elec_A> Alberth: Oh, Ok. very motivating to learn what's going on in behind the scenes :) (I mean source code)
09:03:47 <Alberth> but clarity in code comes first, compilers tend to be fairly smart in doing smaller optimizations
09:04:21 <Alberth> Elec_A: partly yeah, it also spoils the game, as you know what the code does exactly, rather than guessing its intelligence :p
09:05:20 <Alberth> contributors come and leave, and the next person must be able to pick up and make the next step, at all times
09:05:47 <Elec_A> Alberth: from a discussion, I remember that, A friend told me try to write your code in Python and just convert those part that needs optimization to C++. Do you agree with that? Why openttd is not in Python ?
09:06:35 <Elec_A> Python is much more readable :
09:07:09 <Alberth> ever tried writing and maintaining a Python program for several years with say 30,000 lines?
09:07:16 <andythenorth> python would likely be much slower, is one reason
09:07:40 * andythenorth cannot back that with objective facts
09:07:51 <Elec_A> Alberth: Nope. Your questioning tone explains everything :)
09:08:04 <Elec_A> andythenorth: Ok. got it.
09:08:20 <Alberth> it has no compile-time checking of types, so it may take years before some edge case happens, and it blows up due to a undefined variable or so
09:08:27 <andythenorth> I have no benchmarks, but I run a company that almost exclusively writes python web apps
09:09:00 <andythenorth> I don’t think python is where you’d start for cross-platform performance of a mid-sized game with multiplayer, on a very wide range of hardware
09:09:03 <Alberth> also, origin of openttd is from assembly language, at a time that Python barely existed
09:09:36 <Elec_A> I'm hearing mind blowing stuff, thank you guys.
09:10:37 <Alberth> but for smaller size programs and limited number of operating systems, Python approach does make sense
09:11:06 <Alberth> but eg Windows is already a major challenge, no Python installed by default, no C/C++ compiler
09:11:23 <Alberth> just getting your optimized program to run is a major hassle
09:13:21 <Alberth> running low level computations in python is a bad idea
09:14:08 <Alberth> ie "mandelbrot" is not a friendly Python program :)
09:14:24 <Elec_A> andythenorth: I've seen this benchmark before, the thing is that when they say Python it is a pure Python code. The point I was making was to profile a python code and convert the most time consuming part to C++. but according to what you both said before it does not really worth it.
09:14:26 <Alberth> Python is good at glueing libraries together
09:14:58 <Elec_A> Alberth: I like that glueing stuff. I agree.
09:15:32 <Alberth> Elec_A: it is, if you move the main mandelbrot function to C, and call it from Python, you get near the C speed
09:15:47 <Alberth> that's what Python is designed for
09:16:48 <Alberth> ie, move the 10% code that does 90% of the computation time to C, and write the other 90% of the code in nice Python
09:17:59 <Alberth> although I typically don't care for speed, as long as it's < 8 hours
09:18:28 <Elec_A> Alberth: but the fact that python does not really compile the code to find the compile-time errors is a major drawback.
09:18:36 <Alberth> it's hard to make speed improvements such that dev-time + waiting-time is optimized
09:19:12 <Elec_A> That completely makes sense based on what I learned here.
09:19:47 <Alberth> Elec_A: yep, if you want to see that yourself, come to the corsix-th project, 40,000 lines lua, no documentation, no compile time checking, loads of bugs with deep causes :p
09:20:16 <Elec_A> Alberth: Haha, :) I really had a great time discussing with you. I need to go, its late at night here :) its almost 3:30am :)
09:46:04 *** BluesInTheNet has joined #openttd
10:13:03 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd
10:13:03 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest24
10:13:03 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi
11:12:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:15:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:30:10 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd
11:44:55 <andythenorth> such FIRS research
11:45:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
11:45:42 <Wolf01> We put on another lego black market in the restaurant's parking lot yesterday evening :P
11:45:57 <Wolf01> I finally have the whole mixel series
11:46:18 <andythenorth> those ball joints always seem like they should be useful
11:46:21 <andythenorth> but never are somehow :)
11:47:34 <Wolf01> I make mechs, they are useful :P But mixels stay mixels
11:48:19 <andythenorth> so steel making needs limestone (into the blast furnace) and lime (quicklime / calcinated dolomite)
11:48:36 <andythenorth> is lime bulk, liquid, covered? or what?
11:48:55 <andythenorth> ‘lime’ in english is pretty generic, it covers a wide range of industrial products derived from limestone
11:49:01 <andythenorth> google is not my friend today
11:49:09 <Alberth> 'what' seems a nice option
11:49:20 <Wolf01> Usually bulk, could be covered too, at least of what I have seen on tv
11:51:05 <andythenorth> I actually have a half-finished build of that type of wagon, from 20 years ago :P
11:51:10 <Alberth> usually a bit larger, but yep :)
11:51:33 <Alberth> scratchhalfbuild, thus
11:53:33 <andythenorth> can’t find any evidence of it being transported as liquid
11:53:33 <Alberth> "tanker" is not always a ship, apparently :)
12:27:27 <andythenorth> ‘lime’ or ‘quicklime'
12:37:22 <Alberth> unless you have more than 1 lime kind, prefixes don't add much, do they?
12:37:54 <Alberth> and quick lime immediately raises the question of what slow lime would be :p
12:42:42 <andythenorth> ‘lime’ in some places is just crushed stone, applied to farm fields
12:43:03 <andythenorth> ‘quicklime’ has been through a lime kiln, and is a caustic chemical
12:43:09 <andythenorth> but both are called ‘lime’ in common use :P
12:49:58 <Alberth> as long as no confusion is possible :)
12:52:30 <andythenorth> ach LIME cargo label is taken for limestone
12:56:22 <Rubidium> andythenorth: 'CaO '
13:13:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
13:42:08 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
14:00:53 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
14:15:18 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
14:31:17 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
14:39:25 * andythenorth adds a coke oven
14:39:29 <andythenorth> dunno about that though
14:39:45 <andythenorth> steel chain is getting bonkers long, to get any final cargo out
14:41:56 <Alberth> keeping players busy :)
15:00:24 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
15:17:36 <andythenorth> needs some basics, like a source of food :)
15:18:22 <frosch123> i like the copper chain
15:21:08 <andythenorth> I am not sure where to go with this next
15:21:24 <andythenorth> it’s quite easy to split apart the steel production even further and more detailed
15:21:28 <frosch123> total number of industries seems ok
15:21:33 <andythenorth> or add more vectors to the final product
15:21:34 <frosch123> you just need to clean up the cargos
15:21:39 <andythenorth> e.g. electrical components etc
15:21:43 <frosch123> remove the cargos with no source or destination
15:21:48 <frosch123> and add the missnig cargos
15:22:01 <frosch123> like, make the port produce engsup instead of copper
15:23:00 <frosch123> maybe also replace glass with aluminium
15:23:13 <frosch123> that appears more steelish to me
15:24:49 <frosch123> you could also try to make it focus on vehicles
15:24:57 <frosch123> and add rubber imports
15:25:28 *** maciozo has joined #openttd
15:25:33 <frosch123> hmm, na, better idea: rename vehicles to rail vehicles :p
15:25:50 <frosch123> cars are stupid, better make a train production chain
15:26:43 <frosch123> chemicals + copper + plastics -> electronics ?
15:27:12 <frosch123> (oh, there is already rubber)
15:27:19 <andythenorth> there is a tyre plant
15:27:38 <frosch123> maybe remove liquids terminal/oil/rubber? not related to trains
15:27:39 <andythenorth> I was getting a bit carried away with charcoal and iron and stuff at the input end
15:27:51 <andythenorth> I think vehicles are more interesting end maybe
15:27:58 <frosch123> i think the iron/charcoal part is fine
15:28:00 <andythenorth> or split out chemicals, but that’s all tankers
15:28:01 <Wolf01> copper->copper plates->coils + iron->iron plates -> electronics
15:28:28 <andythenorth> electronics can go in a japan/china economy
15:28:37 <Wolf01> electronics + plastic -> better electronics
15:28:44 <andythenorth> I have about 4 more economies in mind, then it’s ‘done'
15:29:08 <frosch123> ok, so you want to build old cars without electronics :)
15:29:27 <andythenorth> I thought about basic electrical machines factory
15:30:18 <andythenorth> I could also split out vehicles
15:30:29 <andythenorth> bodies + drivetrain + parts = vehicles
15:31:14 <andythenorth> the main thing now is to find cargos that look interesting as loads
15:32:09 <frosch123> the standard steel mill add-ons would be roller mills and pipe mills
15:32:16 <frosch123> but no idea how to continue from there :)
15:32:21 <andythenorth> pipe mill = building materials
15:32:28 <andythenorth> roller = plate -> shipyard, etc
15:32:43 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
15:34:15 <Wolf01> Is NRT? I finished to play with lego today, I need to order more parts to continue
15:37:22 <andythenorth> give or take children wanting to build great ball chain contraptions
15:38:07 <Wolf01> Give them some of the 2015-16 sets and make one module with each one
15:39:38 <andythenorth> they ‘make’ things by searching youtube and saying ‘make me this’ :P
15:39:44 <andythenorth> and GBC needs a lot of tuning
15:49:44 <andythenorth> I would never think of these mechanisms
15:54:20 <andythenorth> is it time for NRT vehicle stuff yet?
15:54:24 <andythenorth> or are we still drawing?
15:54:38 <andythenorth> frosch123: do we need road-depot ground tiles? o_O
15:54:46 <Wolf01> We are still arguing on how NRT should be done
15:55:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: we already have them?
15:55:27 <frosch123> though they look like a rail depot :)
15:55:31 * andythenorth hasn’t drawn any
15:56:07 <frosch123> i am adding level crossings now
15:56:11 <Wolf01> I think we finally decided for 15 types, but not sure
15:56:20 <frosch123> i think i can also draw tram crossing without road
15:56:36 <frosch123> thus m7 6..7 should be freed
15:56:37 <andythenorth> frosch123: you can, I have a patch for that from years ago :)
15:56:51 <frosch123> do you have a screenshot?
15:59:19 <Wolf01> Maglev crossing is ugly AF
15:59:19 <andythenorth> I abandoned it because it got a ’meh’ response, didn’t look like it would get included and maglev looks stupid also
15:59:20 <frosch123> yep, looks like i would draw them now
16:00:00 <frosch123> hmm, actually not sure
16:00:06 <frosch123> maybe they would look different
16:00:26 <frosch123> not sure what is underlay/overlay for maglev
16:01:31 <frosch123> anyway, maglev/monorail-tram-crossing does not look more stupid than the maglev/monorail-road-crossing :)
16:03:29 <andythenorth> file it under ‘maglev is ugly’
16:03:37 <andythenorth> ban crossings on maglev :P
16:04:01 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
16:04:50 <Rubidium> actually the junctions of monorail and maglev are ugly as well
16:05:08 * andythenorth considers doing a maglev set
16:05:17 <Rubidium> though in theory I could imagine providing different sprites for the junctions based on the path reservation through it
16:05:52 <Rubidium> would even help normal rail switches in zoom-in level maximum
16:06:29 <frosch123> i think newrailtypes already provide that
16:06:39 <Rubidium> i.e. based on the path reservation one tongue is open and the other closed (or
16:06:46 <frosch123> they have custom level crossing graphics, and they can check the reservation stage
16:06:54 <Rubidium> whatever it's called in proper English)
16:07:24 <Rubidium> if that's the case, based on the reservation you could draw a different sprite
16:07:54 <Rubidium> i.e. with reservation draw the maglev, without it draw the tram/road as if the maglev is dropped below the road surface
16:08:41 <andythenorth> that would look better
16:20:13 <Wolf01> Yup, they look really cool
16:23:46 <andythenorth> bit heavy to my eye
16:23:54 <andythenorth> not clear if they’re steel or concrete, or whatever
16:24:02 <Wolf01> ROADSUBTYPE_END = 14, or better as 0xE?
16:24:35 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
16:27:17 <andythenorth> Steeltown economy does not have alcohol
16:27:21 <andythenorth> that’s not standard
16:28:02 <Wolf01> Mmmh, no, it should be 15 not 14
16:29:08 <Wolf01> I hope it won't confuse with INVALID_ROADSUBTYPE
16:29:13 <Alberth> inclusive or exclusive boundary? otherwise, you may want to name it *LAST
16:29:49 <Alberth> yeah, I guessed as much from the previous sentence :)
16:29:53 <Wolf01> Is used to initialize arrays
16:34:40 <Wolf01> andythenorth, how to reintegrate a branch? I think it's better to work directly on road-and-tram-types and just use local branches if needed
16:35:29 <Wolf01> Ok, then I simply won't use anymore the "wolf" branch
16:36:58 <andythenorth> yeah just merge your stuff into road-and-tram-types
16:37:13 <Wolf01> frosch123, already did that some days ago
16:37:16 <andythenorth> I’d only use a feature branch if we hit a stable point, and start something new, like vehicle routing
16:37:26 <andythenorth> then we have a stable candidate, and unstable feature branch
16:44:55 <Wolf01> Ok, we could delete some branches then, wolf, dev, gui...
16:45:40 <Wolf01> Good, much clean now :P
16:47:30 <Wolf01> Is it possible to delete a forked repository too?
16:47:47 <andythenorth> probably in github
16:47:59 <andythenorth> you’re the owner so only you can do it probably
16:48:10 <Wolf01> There's a delete in "danger zone"
16:48:11 <andythenorth> it’s hard to keep git branches deleted btw :P
16:48:27 <andythenorth> they tend to come back from the dead
16:50:20 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
16:53:47 <Wolf01> Ok, at least now removing the roadstop it restores normal road
16:53:55 <Wolf01> I need to restore the right road type
17:04:24 *** maciozo has joined #openttd
17:07:03 <andythenorth> tyres, drivetrain components, windscreens, bodies, electrical parts, trim parts
17:07:10 <andythenorth> 6 into 3 don’t go :P
17:09:27 <Alberth> tires + drive train + bodies merge ?
17:10:54 <Alberth> or windscreens + electrical parts -> car doors?
17:10:56 <andythenorth> I can consolidate parts in a warehouse
17:11:07 <Alberth> not sure what trim parts are
17:11:46 <Alberth> ah, things and stuff :)
17:11:50 <andythenorth> but I don’t have textiles in this economy :)
17:12:03 <andythenorth> engine plant -> drivetrain components
17:12:05 <Alberth> it's all fake leather :p
17:12:36 <andythenorth> body plant -> vehicle bodies
17:12:38 <Alberth> you could make an "upgrade" factory to enhance the cars :)
17:13:01 <Alberth> better seats, bigger engine, etc
17:13:22 <andythenorth> I dunno, the vehicle chain might be getting too detailed :P
17:13:29 <andythenorth> it’s Steeltown not Motown
17:13:43 * andythenorth exploring different options this could have
17:14:03 <andythenorth> I kind of wanted to explore chemicals more
17:14:13 <andythenorth> or slag -> cement
17:14:34 <Alberth> but you have chemicals elsewhere too, iirc
17:14:58 <andythenorth> not in much detail
17:15:09 <andythenorth> the downside, it’s all just tanker trucks / wagons
17:15:17 <andythenorth> tankers -> more tankers
17:15:22 <andythenorth> in different colours
17:15:28 <Alberth> clearly it needs an open tanker
17:16:10 <Alberth> and sprinkling colours, like neon light green, yellow, orange
17:16:54 <Alberth> all these silly RL ideas :p
17:17:18 <Alberth> nah, that would be the magic potion industry chain
17:18:09 <Alberth> it only needs a glowing factory :p
17:19:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think you added additional sprites for your crossing back then
17:20:52 <frosch123> "with" looks better than "no" for everything but default roadf
17:21:39 <frosch123> maglev is hopeless :)
17:21:54 <frosch123> but newrailtypes should be fine
17:30:56 <Klanticus> hey guys, is there any way no name an order list?
17:31:08 *** lobstar has joined #openttd
17:31:30 <frosch123> no, you can only name vehicles and vehicle groups
17:31:45 <frosch123> usualy people name vehicle groups and put all vehicles with shared orders into a group
17:32:06 <Klanticus> would you accept a patch to allow that?
17:33:00 <frosch123> where would such a name be shown?
17:33:15 <frosch123> you cannot select order list anywhere, can you?
17:34:43 <Klanticus> I think it could be displayed inside the order list window, and on another window, showing all lists (by their name)
17:35:15 <frosch123> so it adds a another way to group vehicles other than vehicle groups
17:35:18 <Klanticus> ultimately i'd like to be able to display detailed information obout any order list
17:35:36 <frosch123> do you know about vehicle groups
17:35:45 <frosch123> you suggest something that is *very* similar to vehicle groups
17:36:01 <frosch123> there are various patches which create tons of information for vehicle groups
17:36:41 <Klanticus> the main problem with them is that you have to change them every time you add a new vehicle to a route
17:36:59 <Klanticus> if that wasn't the case, they'd be great
17:37:06 <frosch123> without thinking about the implications, i would think you rather want some setting like "automatically put vehicles with shared orders into new vehicle groups" or something
17:37:07 <Sylf> You just can't select the set of orders from a drop-down list currently - you have to find a vehicle with the exact order you want to copy, then clone the vehicle/orders
17:37:23 <Alberth> generalizing vehicle groups could be an alternative path
17:37:25 <frosch123> Klanticus: shared-cloning also copies the group
17:37:40 <Sylf> So, the only thing that's missing is the UI for list of unique orders - that's what it sounds like to me
17:37:45 <Klanticus> frosch123: really? That I didn't knew
17:38:33 <Klanticus> so it looks like a better way is to work on top of vehicle groups
17:38:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: I don’t remember drawing extra sprites, I wouldn’t have known how to add them to the game :)
17:38:59 <andythenorth> I think I did abuse the PBS overlay sprite though
17:39:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: i drew just those in the "with" screenshots
17:39:47 <frosch123> Klanticus: extending vehicle groups would make it less redunant/confusing imho
17:39:56 <Klanticus> but I still think they would be more useable if tied to an order list, somehow
17:40:10 <andythenorth> vehicle groups are more arbitrary than that
17:40:17 <andythenorth> although arguably that’s a weakness
17:40:39 <Klanticus> yeah.. there's no easy way to see how much profit I get from a route
17:41:18 <Klanticus> I could add that statistic to vehicle groups, but then the player would need to keep it always up to date
17:41:20 <Wolf01> andythenorth, enjoy your new roadstops
17:41:29 <frosch123> i would suggest a setting "put vehicles automatically in a new vehicle group, when sharing orders and the vehicles are not yet in a group"
17:41:52 <Wolf01> It still trigger an assert when removing the roadstops if you drag and drop an area without a roadstop inside
17:41:55 <frosch123> Klanticus: there are already patches for vehicle group statistics
17:42:00 <Wolf01> I''m not sure on what to do there
17:42:27 <frosch123> Wolf01: i just fixed RoadTypeIdentifiers::FromTile wrt that
17:42:37 <Klanticus> frosch123: looks like a good idea. Are those patches on flyspray?
17:42:47 <frosch123> all problems arise from using GetRoadBits instead of GetRoadTypes in various places
17:43:44 <Wolf01> But GetRoadTypes should be deprecated, or changed to extract them from roadbits+subtypes
17:45:54 <Klanticus> frosch123: thanks! As a matter of curiosity, any reason for not merging it in trunk?
17:46:48 <andythenorth> Wolf01: yay stops :)
17:47:00 <frosch123> personally i don't care about money and spreadsheets in ottd. no idea about other people's opinion
17:48:32 <frosch123> Wolf01: do not use roadbits, only subtypes
17:48:48 <frosch123> roadbits only exist for 1 of 5 tiletypes with road or something
17:52:23 <Wolf01> if (GetAnyRoadBits(t, ROADTYPE_TRAM) != ROAD_NONE) { -> GB(_m[t].m4, 0, 4) != INVALID_ROAD_SUBTYPE ??
17:53:17 <Wolf01> How would you do that?
17:53:36 <frosch123> bool HasRoadTypeRoad(TileType tile) { return GetRoadSubtype(tile) == INVALID_ROADSUBTYPE; }
17:53:59 <frosch123> the subtype specifies whether there is any road
17:54:10 <frosch123> subtype exists for *all* roady tiles
17:54:58 <frosch123> it needs a savegame conversion to move m7 6..7 to m4
17:55:04 <Wolf01> But HasRoadTypeRoad uses RoadTypeIdentifiers, I'm creating the RoadTypeIdentifiers -> recursion
17:55:13 <frosch123> but after that m4 can give the information that m7 had
17:55:44 <Wolf01> I would change HasRoadTypeRoad to GB(_m[t].m4, 0, 4) != INVALID_ROAD_SUBTYPE
17:55:46 <frosch123> RoadTypeIdentifiers can directly read m4
17:55:52 <frosch123> it does not need to check any bits
18:00:16 <Wolf01> HasRoadTypeRoad/Tram(TileIndex t) are a bit weird and shouldn't use RoadTypeIdentifiers::FromTile() but instead check m4 imho
18:06:12 <frosch123> removing all usage of m7 and use m4 instead
18:06:30 <frosch123> RoadTypeIdentifiers::FromTile is very simple now
18:06:36 <frosch123> it does not need to check tiletypes or similar
18:06:56 <frosch123> because the INVALID is directly stored in m4
18:09:37 * andythenorth is getting too obsessed with vehicle chain :(
18:16:13 <Wolf01> Ok, this assers in GetRoadTypeInfo, somewhere the roadtype is 0xF
18:16:39 <frosch123> yes, that is my fault
18:16:44 <frosch123> i was about to patch that
18:17:04 <frosch123> i use GetRoadTypeInfo in all drawing functions, without checking the presence first
18:17:16 <frosch123> just wait until i am done with dinner, then i can fix that :)
18:18:03 <andythenorth> ‘paint’ is not an interesting cargo?
18:18:43 <andythenorth> it moves in crates or cans, and not in high volume
18:18:52 <andythenorth> might as well be chemicals or manufacturing supplies
18:19:00 <frosch123> "paint" gets very interesting very fast, if you transport it in open vans
18:19:11 <andythenorth> we don’t have particle generator
18:19:24 <andythenorth> could use extended vehicle effects though
18:19:34 <andythenorth> tyres are interesting visually? Or at least different?
18:25:12 <Wolf01> Because makyng them rolling was too easy?
18:31:38 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:37:49 <Wolf01> There's a similar thing next to my town
18:39:53 <FLHerne> andythenorth: UKRS2 (+)? has some vehicle wagons, they look rather good
18:40:26 <andythenorth> ‘just saying’ :)
18:40:27 <FLHerne> Ah, that would be why they look so good :D
19:00:42 <Alberth> andy, the vehicle factory should make those big mining trucks :)
19:02:53 <Wolf01> There's a strange overlay/underlay on everything with the changes to HasRoadTypeRoad/Tram, or do you see them too?
19:03:08 <frosch123> yes, that is missing savegame conversion
19:03:23 <frosch123> noone convers m7 to m4
19:03:39 <frosch123> so all tiles get road+tram subtype 0
19:16:19 <andythenorth> Alberth: that’s the Machine Shop :)
19:16:29 <andythenorth> file:///Users/andy/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build/docs/html/industries.html#machine_shop
19:16:43 <andythenorth> I should make a plugin for my irc client to stop doing that :P
20:06:22 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
20:46:53 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
20:47:18 <andythenorth> slag is being tested as marine fertiliser for seabeds that have become desert
20:47:24 <andythenorth> deliver it to fishing grounds :P
20:51:09 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
20:51:57 <frosch123> i don't think they dump it in hot state
21:08:29 <andythenorth> we could pretend? o_O
21:11:26 <frosch123> like at the end of your video?
21:11:34 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
21:18:21 *** maciozo_ has joined #openttd
21:20:46 <andythenorth> it could be a method of fishing?
21:21:32 *** maciozo_ is now known as maciozo
21:22:25 <tane> is there a way to get data out of openttd, e.g. cargo waiting by station etc?
21:27:32 <frosch123> there are gamescript, there is the admin port, there is source code
21:28:06 <frosch123> there are gamescripts talking via the admin port with the outside world
21:28:08 * andythenorth wonders if ‘slag’ cargo is going to produce childish reaction :P
21:28:34 <frosch123> it all depends on your preconditions, whether you can modify the source, or whether you require an unmodified binary
21:31:15 <tane> just trying to enhance my single player experience, so I can work on all of it, just trying to determine the work required and best way to access the data
21:32:44 <Wolf01> andythenorth, transport fever has slag cargo
21:33:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean everyone would read it as "slug"?
21:34:23 <andythenorth> ‘slag’ means something different in UK English :P
21:35:40 <andythenorth> Wolf01: are there any docs about TF cargos?
21:37:15 <Wolf01> "About 20 cargo types (six end products are required by towns)"
21:37:33 <andythenorth> that’s all I could find :)
21:38:30 <frosch123> it even has a "smithy forge"
21:38:38 <frosch123> is that a common name, or is that copied from firs? :p
21:39:00 <frosch123> Wolf01: ah, then the mod copied it from firs :)
21:39:09 <andythenorth> much of FIRS is copied from various Railroad Tycoon versions
21:39:22 <andythenorth> but that mod is basically FIRS in TF
21:39:38 <Wolf01> You can also have different byproducts based on what you deliver to a factory
21:39:59 <Wolf01> (cargo diagram at the end)
21:40:22 <frosch123> ok, the plain tf chain looks a lot like ttd temperate
21:40:29 <frosch123> i guess all standard :)
21:40:49 <Wolf01> Yes, the only difference is the construction materials plant
21:41:03 <frosch123> and the chemical plant
21:41:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: tf firs has "paint" :)
21:42:06 <frosch123> no idea what a "sport factory" is
21:42:56 <frosch123> oh, it even replicated the stupid bank valuables cycle
21:44:39 <frosch123> never mind, it's actually only a "suggestion" :p
21:45:00 <frosch123> and then many "does not work in tf due to X and Y bugs"
21:47:38 <andythenorth> so steel slag is sometimes left to cool and then ‘mined’
21:47:50 *** mescalito has joined #openttd
21:47:52 <andythenorth> I could just fill the FIRS quarry with fire cycle
21:54:55 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
21:57:57 <andythenorth> I’d have to recreate the fire cycle in frames though
21:58:04 <andythenorth> it doesn’t work any more for me
22:08:32 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd
22:08:32 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest65
22:08:32 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi
22:33:56 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
22:39:18 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
22:57:19 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
23:12:54 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd
23:12:54 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest67
23:12:54 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi
23:44:09 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
