IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-11-20
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00:00:24 <FLHerne> (also, NewGRFs can make it different, but that caveat goes for most things)
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01:58:23 <supermop__> ii wonder if there is enough Al in slag to be worth refining
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02:11:22 <ERRM> Hola a todos...¿Alguien que entienda español por aquí, que me pueda ayudar, por favor?
02:15:09 <ERRM> Al fin alguien que entiende mi idioma. Disculpa, hermanazo. Tengo un problema con OpenTTD
02:16:39 <ERRM> Verás... recientemente, actualicé de la versión DEMASIADO ARCAICA 0.5.3 RC-1 a la nueva versión 1.6.1. Y he instalado el Open SFX correspondiente a esta versión...
02:17:08 <ERRM> Pero el programa tiene problemas para guardar las partidas y para bajar contenidos.
02:17:43 <Jinassi> ¿Se puede hacer una nueva instalación? ¿Qué sistema operativo tiene?
02:19:50 <ERRM> Escuche, también tengo instalado el programa TeamViewer, por si necesita operar mi sistema de manera remota.
02:20:47 <Jinassi> Mi español no es tan bueno para operar un sistema en tu idioma: P
02:21:51 <ERRM> Pero más o menos, qué crees tú podría ser el problema. Si gustas, te mando una instantánea o screenshot del juego para mostrarte cómo luce...
02:22:31 <Jinassi> En los documentos, busque una carpeta denominada OpenTTD. Cambie el nombre de OpenTTD.cfg a OpenTTD-antiguo. Ejecute el juego y se reconstruirá, pruebe a descargar contenido de nuevo.
02:24:21 <Jinassi> Usted va a cambiar el nombre de la misma para la custodia, por lo que todavía se puede utilizar más tarde. La reconstrucción de ese archivo restablecerá el juego y podrás volver a descargarlo.
02:25:32 <ERRM> Hice los cambios y ahora suena la música de intro (antes no lo hacía). Veré si puedo guardar el juego.
02:27:17 <ERRM> Puede descargar contenido, pero sigue el problema de que no quiere guardar.
02:28:51 <Jinassi> ¿No puedes guardar el juego o el contenido?
02:29:40 <ERRM> El juego. Es decir, genero una nueva partida. Intento guardar y me aparece un cuadro rojo que me informa que no puede guardar en el archivo.
02:30:06 <Jinassi> Una vez que los descargas, para sonidos, música o gráficos, tienes que configurarlos en opciones.
02:30:45 <Jinassi> ¿Eso es todo lo que dice?
02:32:21 <Jinassi> ¿Puedes descargar un archivo .zip desde el sitio web oficial, por favor? Descomprimirlo en el escritorio y ejecutarlo desde allí. Veamos lo que hace.
02:33:39 <ERRM> El Transport Tycoon DeLuxe original de 1994.
02:34:47 <ERRM> Sale un mensaje que me dice "Error guardando partida. No se puede escribir en el archivo"
02:35:27 <Jinassi> Entiendo. Esto ya no es Transport Tycoon. En el 2004 fue ingeniería inversa. Todavía tiene similitudes.
02:36:29 <ERRM> ¿Será el Windows 8.1 que, chico?
02:38:22 <ERRM> Fíjate que incluso descargué un mapa de alturas y lo carga perfectamente, pero igualito no me agarra el guardado.
02:39:57 <ERRM> Hace unos pocos años, yo actualicé esa misma versión 0.5.3 a otra un poc más avanzada (que se parece un poco en características a esta versión 1.6.1). Y no me dió problemas. Usaba entonces Windows XP SP3
02:43:13 <ERRM> Extraño, ciertamente. Obviamente, una versión más avanzada de este sistema operativo debería correr este juego sin problemas. Es más, hasta Windows 7 debería agarrarlo.
02:43:49 <Jinassi> ¿Fue OpenTTD o una actualización para Transport Tycoon o TDDpatch? Este es el resultado de todos ellos. Puede intentar ejecutar el programa en modo de compatibilidad para Windows XP o intentar descargar el programa más reciente estable de www.openttd.org.
02:44:05 <ERRM> Entonces, si este problema sucede en Windows 8.1, ni me imagino lo que pasará si se corre em Windows 10
02:45:37 <Jinassi> Es cierto que OpenTTD más reciente no tiene problemas ejecutándose desde Windows XP a Windows 10. Para programas antiguos, tiene que usar el modo de compatibilidad.
02:45:49 <ERRM> Estoy actualizando de 0.5.3 Release Candidate Número Uno(RC-1) a 1.6.1.
02:47:23 <ERRM> Y te digo que la versión RC ya me cansa. No me canso de exprimir compañías. Pero no me gusta tener que poner estaciones de autobuses al final d euna calle ni que pueda usar el zoom...
02:47:23 <Jinassi> Sería mejor quitar las instalaciones anteriores e instalar las más recientes después. Guarde todo lo que quiera guardar y, a continuación, quite el antiguo.
02:48:34 <Jinassi> ¿Y sobre multijugador, lo has probado todavía? Hay un montón de gente jugando este juego en línea, todos los días!
02:49:37 <ERRM> Oye no... siempre he jugado solo. Es decir, contra la PC. Pero sería genial... Lo que pasa es que uso es internet de pendrive movistar.
02:50:58 <Jinassi> No hay problema, el juego sólo utiliza un ancho de banda muy pequeño. El archivo más grande es cuando usted está descargando el mapa para unirse.
02:53:08 <ERRM> Bueno. habrái que intentarlo. Pero primero debo resolver este problemita del guardado. Agradezco mucho la ayuda, Jinassi.
02:54:02 <ERRM> Ese juego lo he desinstalado, instalado, vuelto a instalar y nada. Pero bueno...
02:54:17 <ERRM> Vamos a ver. Mil gracias, Jinassi.
02:56:51 <Jinassi> ¿Ha eliminado o cambiado el nombre de OpenTTD.cfg en los documentos?
02:58:33 <Jinassi> voy a tener teamviewer
03:12:17 <ERRM> Así es. Pero de nada me vale. Los problemas continúan.
03:13:35 <Jinassi> Puedo tratar de ayudar remotamente, no puedo prometer nada.
03:14:42 <ERRM> Juego bien. Pero no puedo guardar. Ya cambié el nombre del archivo que me dijo, el openttd.dfg, que ahora se llama openttd-antiguo.cfg
03:15:03 <ERRM> Juego bien. Pero no puedo guardar. Ya cambié el nombre del archivo que me dijo, el openttd.cfg, que ahora se llama openttd-antiguo.cfg
03:15:25 <Jinassi> ¿El juego hizo uno nuevo?
03:16:08 <ERRM> Estoy jugando multijugador. Pero no hay nadie conectado. Cree una partida.
03:17:54 <ERRM> Por si desea meterse, acá le dejo los datos de mi teamviewer: 885 582 082 password es u175fa
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10:10:36 <andythenorth> somehow farm supplies don’t fit forests
10:12:07 <andythenorth> add ‘logging supplies’?
10:23:27 <Alberth> forests prefer no logging :p
10:23:53 <Alberth> maybe "farm" is the wrong word?
10:24:35 <Alberth> perhaps "agriculture" but it's too long, and perhaps spelled wrong :)
10:25:14 <andythenorth> I could remove the supplies mechanic from logging, but that’s….not justified :)
10:25:52 <andythenorth> many versions ago, forest needed engineering supplies
10:25:55 <andythenorth> but that was strange also
10:26:35 <Alberth> well, if you see how people move log from eg hills, it does involves engineering :)
10:26:50 <Alberth> but in general, yes, it's a bit strange as well.
10:27:14 <V453000> lately I have been getting a lot of repots that people who play with any of my 32bpp things get a lot of lag and shit
10:27:24 <V453000> some say that it only happens when they combine it with zbase
10:27:38 <V453000> WTF is that these people have some high end machines
10:27:46 <V453000> what could be the bottleneck?
10:27:58 <Alberth> high end as in new video cards?
10:28:06 <andythenorth> every time I upgrade my computer, OpenTTD performance gets worse
10:28:08 <Alberth> where the entire GPU is not used at all?
10:29:05 <Alberth> moving around the screen isn't as smooth as it used to be, but I run a development build. I think it's the switch to 32bpp that is the default now
10:29:27 <andythenorth> V453000 any details on what kind of lag it is?
10:30:03 <andythenorth> also how does palette cycle animation work with 32bpp? Is it same?
10:30:22 <V453000> idk they say like 2fps when they zoom out
10:30:25 <Alberth> without palette? nah, won't work :p
10:30:33 <V453000> high end as in processors
10:30:41 <Rubidium> V453000: sound to me like the railways in the UK. In the past your drive from London to the north in say 2 hours, but they increased the performance of that route... so now you can get there in 2:15 (but every 15 minutes instead of every 2 hours)
10:31:04 <Alberth> it's the bandwidth of the CPU-GPU likely
10:31:26 <V453000> but it makes me consider adding 8bpp x4 sprites
10:31:50 <andythenorth> ask them if they have ‘full animation’ on, and if turning it off helps
10:32:13 <Alberth> modern PCs have big fast GPUs on their video card to render stuff
10:32:25 <Alberth> modern games all use it
10:32:50 <Alberth> OpenTTD still renders everything with the CPU, and then sends all images to the GPU to display
10:33:08 <Alberth> so OpenTTD needs lots of speed in the transfer to the GPU
10:33:30 <andythenorth> $somebody told me that some of the palette cycling relies on hardware transforms that were dropped
10:33:32 <andythenorth> about 3 years ago
10:33:38 <Rubidium> the main problems are: a) higher resolution; increase sides by factor 2, you have 4 times as much pixels to draw. b) less optimisations for simple blitting, even Windows itself is starting to use 3D techniques to just draw an image. c) as a result old style techniques are not to be used anymore (thus lesser optimised)
10:33:55 <V453000> well yeah but i6700k doesn't sound like a bad cpu
10:34:01 <Alberth> while modern games typically upload one time to the GPU, and then do all rendering at the GPU
10:34:15 <Alberth> no need for big lanes between CPU and GPU
10:34:28 <Alberth> which is also what manufacturers design for
10:34:38 <Rubidium> like in the past your video was completely blitted from the CPU to the GPU, now they just send the compressed video to the GPU which decodes, scales and draws it
10:34:57 <Rubidium> so again, the simple blitting is not needed anymore because what needs to be done fast is done fast
10:34:57 <andythenorth> V453000 THAT IS A TERRIBLE CPU, IT DATES FROM AUGUST 2016, IT’S TOTALLY OUTDATED!!!
10:35:06 <andythenorth> V453000: IT’S NOT “PRO"
10:35:33 <Rubidium> after all, a 2CV is a much better car
10:35:53 <V453000> so, is there anything I can tell people to help them ? :D
10:36:03 <V453000> other than "you are fucked" ?
10:36:05 <andythenorth> try turning off full animation, see what happens
10:36:11 <andythenorth> it’s at least just a toggle
10:36:21 <andythenorth> it works for me, but I am running 8bpp with 32bpp blitter
10:36:33 <andythenorth> with ‘full animation’ on, the game is unplayable for me
10:36:54 <V453000> I never had that issue
10:37:07 <Alberth> andy is willing to swap computers, I am sure :p
10:37:26 <V453000> but that's the thing ... it "just works" for me
10:37:40 <andythenorth> V453000: you don’t have a ‘pro’ operating system :P
10:38:24 <V453000> does that mean osx fucks something for you?
10:38:34 <Rubidium> in any case, the main (graphics) performance issues OpenTTD has are due to the 1990s design and the fact that we need to remain compatible with that in some way or another
10:38:49 <Rubidium> otherwise you're just playing something like p1sim
10:39:02 <V453000> colleague at work was getting a new mouse last week ... Oh I like this mouse ... does it support mac? Ok time to choose another mouse, ...
10:39:52 <Rubidium> only some bluetooth mouses support mac, right?
10:39:59 <Rubidium> the rest doesn't have USB-C connectors
10:40:16 <V453000> ah to say it properly
10:40:20 <V453000> he is using osx on a normal pc
10:40:36 <V453000> but the software for the mouse usually isn't there
10:46:33 <V453000> how could for example loading zbase AND BRIX together influence it?
10:46:45 <V453000> "just more 32bpp shit" ?
10:49:06 <andythenorth> V453000 if the mouse didn’t have CF card slot, it probably wasn’t pro
10:49:09 <andythenorth> that would be the problem
10:49:18 <andythenorth> Serious Mac Users Need Serious Slots
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12:49:29 <andythenorth> what can produce food, that isn’t a farm or fishing ground?
12:49:37 <andythenorth> maybe I can remove Farm Supplies from Arctic Basic
12:49:42 <andythenorth> which would be…different
12:53:09 <Alberth> extra-terrestial launching platforms
13:02:56 <andythenorth> hunting grounds?
13:13:59 <Alberth> I do hope you don't need a train for transport :p
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15:02:21 <andythenorth> Logging Supplies, Forest Supplies, or Lumberjack Supplies? o_O
15:02:34 * andythenorth is going to try it in a test game, what’s the best name?
15:02:38 <andythenorth> icon can be an axe :P
15:03:38 <andythenorth> I think it will make no sense in FIRS world TBH
15:04:00 <andythenorth> there are too many industries which should produce ENSP, FMSP and Forestry Supplies
15:04:04 <andythenorth> but only 2 outputs
15:06:17 <andythenorth> also, it’s a bit ‘swallowed a spider to catch the fly'
15:06:28 <andythenorth> the problem is that delivering fertiliser to a forest is weird
15:06:35 <andythenorth> I should solve that differently
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15:24:20 <andythenorth> hmm, Christmas Tree Farm industry?
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15:33:43 <andythenorth> ach, farms in arctic: yes / no?
15:34:04 <andythenorth> IRL is ’kind of’; there are farms but arctic regions import the grain they need
15:34:16 <andythenorth> can’t grow enough to be sufficient
15:53:50 <Alberth> likely farms above snow limit isn't a good idea in reality :)
16:01:54 <Jinassi> How would one limit them? Use the same mechanics as the tree placer? WHere they only grow in rain forests, aka on the lower greener levels?
16:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> how "arctic" are your arctics?
16:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if you think scandinavian countries, maybe try apple plantations instead of wheat farms
16:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause> trees may be a bit sturdier concerning longer stretches of cold and a narrow growth period
16:03:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and also sheep herding
16:05:16 <andythenorth> they are approximately, finland and more northern bits of canada
16:05:34 <andythenorth> Dan had a plan for a more southerly canadian economy, with apples :)
16:06:59 <andythenorth> how could forests be better?
16:07:10 <andythenorth> or to put it another way, why does the lumber mill mechanic suck so much?
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16:15:19 <andythenorth> requires tree planting
16:15:25 <andythenorth> and doesn’t move
16:15:33 <andythenorth> ha, moving industries :)
16:15:42 <andythenorth> that would keep you building routes
16:16:14 <Alberth> it's known as "he my industry closed!" :)
16:16:21 <Eddi|zuHause> lumber mill only works in tropic because it has increased tree growth speed
16:16:32 <andythenorth> ‘all the trees are gone, the lumber mill moved'
16:16:50 <Alberth> it works? I never got it to work reliably
16:17:03 <andythenorth> I tried it a few times, then ignored it
16:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i never actually tried
16:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but it definitely will work less well in temperate or arctic
16:17:26 <Alberth> ok, that explains why it works for you :p
16:18:19 * andythenorth wondering if forest is some special type of industry
16:18:42 <andythenorth> fishing grounds cannot be boosted, they’re unique primaries in FIRS
16:19:02 <andythenorth> forest is neither farm nor mine
16:19:30 <Alberth> time scale is different with forests
16:19:43 <Alberth> unless you got a reaaally big forest
16:20:12 <Alberth> in real time, at least
16:20:25 <andythenorth> I did consider *really big* forests
16:22:44 <andythenorth> forests are never big enough in my game
16:22:48 <andythenorth> they should be sprawling
16:22:52 <andythenorth> but that makes a mess on the map
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17:11:43 <V453000> andythenorth: if the industry doesn't have to be flat, having it BIG with somewhat random pattern could be pretty amazing actually
17:25:38 <V453000> it kind of even makes sense that a forest would need some big area
17:25:44 <V453000> but I guess that is the case for all industries :D
17:28:19 <Alberth> it doesn't really work in the game, unless you play a crazy size map
17:28:34 <Alberth> but then you get major problems in placement of the industries
17:30:52 <Alberth> we lack a proper negotiation about the ground surface between the industry and the game
17:32:15 <andythenorth> is proper problem
17:32:33 <andythenorth> big forest: looks weird if has gaps; but blocks routes if no gaps
17:32:53 <andythenorth> lumber mill is frustratingly close to a good idea, but sucks
17:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> for spread out industries like that we need some different approach than a rigid shape that is fixed for the entirety of the game
17:32:54 <Alberth> sort of cluster, like farms?
17:33:16 <andythenorth> if lumber mill just planted trees continuously, like farm fields
17:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause> like, if you have a farm, and it plants 90 field tiles around it, you can use 10% of them for something other than fields
17:33:30 <andythenorth> then I could put a sawmill in it :P
17:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could use 9 of the 90 field tiles to put like a station or roads through
17:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> (numbers up for debate)
17:35:24 <andythenorth> meanwhile, I could change the forest back to use engineering supplies, not farm supplies
17:35:34 <supermop__> if custom fields can't happen, why not have a hut that plants trees
17:35:35 * andythenorth considers just having one type of supplies :P
17:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody said you need to have the same sort of supplies for all economies
17:38:29 <andythenorth> a long time ago, it seemed weird to have wood go back to the forest to produce more wood
17:38:42 <andythenorth> so it was switched from ENSP to FMSP
17:38:59 <andythenorth> despite that coal -> more coal, via steel chain (and many other similar examples)
17:41:16 <andythenorth> dedicated ‘logging supplies’ seems all kinds of wrong
17:41:41 <supermop__> im telling you man : chainsaws
17:42:09 <andythenorth> ‘chainsaw supplies'
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18:00:12 <andythenorth> why are supplies?
18:02:15 <Alberth> excuse to get more cargo in the network?
18:02:53 <andythenorth> why not just deliver vehicles, fuel, building materials, spares, food, passengers?
18:03:27 <andythenorth> also fertiliser, seeds, explosives, machinery
18:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: usually the 3-input-limit for industries
18:07:35 <Alberth> it also adds a dynamic element to the industries
18:08:11 <Alberth> although I think most do it for the additional cargo they get
18:10:38 <andythenorth> hmm, if we had graphviz when I made this, I would never had released it :P file:///Users/andy/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build/docs/html/economies.html#extreme
18:11:59 <Alberth> ah, let people play :)
18:12:23 <Alberth> they like insanely big maps too :p
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18:13:49 <supermop_> ok my computer overheated and shut down running nothing but irc client
18:15:03 <andythenorth> and all your viruses
18:15:52 <supermop_> those virii are plenty benign an friendly
18:17:09 <supermop_> really need to get something new so i can work from home christmas to new years
18:17:37 <supermop_> otherwise my boss will make me come into the office
18:18:17 <andythenorth> instead of forest, I could do a log sort
18:20:37 <andythenorth> logs come in from the forest and are sorted for pulp / sawmill
18:20:50 <andythenorth> could accept engineering supplies
18:21:08 <andythenorth> works more like a junk yard, gathers from surrounding area, not extracting directly
18:21:15 <andythenorth> might suck, dunno :P
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18:33:26 <andythenorth> ach, what am I trying to solve?
18:33:35 <andythenorth> having 19 cargos instead of 20 :|
18:45:29 <Alberth> add a supplies conversion industry :)
18:55:10 <andythenorth> that’s a port ;)
18:55:13 <andythenorth> or a supply yard
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20:00:14 <Wolf01> Not so much, people didn't expected to find lego in that fair
20:00:42 <Wolf01> A lot of people but not interested
20:02:22 <Wolf01> Also people only looked at star wars, train and city themes, MOCs like mine didn't get much attention
20:03:57 <Alberth> but more because of the theme than because it's lego, I guess
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20:40:37 <Wolf01> frosch123, I think we have to think again at some nrt implementation
20:41:19 <Wolf01> For example 0 mean no road and normal road
20:59:12 <frosch123> V453000: ottd picks different blitters by default depending on whether the baseset is 32bpp, or only some newgrf is 32bpp
20:59:22 <frosch123> so that may make a difference
21:00:35 <frosch123> Wolf01: can you give me some more context?
21:00:51 <frosch123> "no roadbits" means "no road" usually
21:01:29 <Wolf01> Yes, but the GetRoadBits asserts if used with stations or bridges
21:01:58 <V453000> and if BRIX was replacing ALL sprites, would that make a difference?
21:02:23 <Wolf01> Or we remove the assert and pray, or we don't deprecate the m7 7..6 bits which tell which roadtypes are in the tile
21:04:32 <Wolf01> Also m4 in stations is a bit... abused
21:04:50 <Wolf01> It's free for roads, but for rails stores the station graphics
21:05:37 <Wolf01> So if we use it for road, we wouldn't have different roadstops (only 1 for every roadtype)
21:06:08 <frosch123> they can try other blitters via "-b"
21:06:56 <frosch123> the idea was, that some blitters are faster for 32bpp but slower for 8bpp, so the decision is made based on the baseset, assuming it provides most of the graphics
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21:07:37 <frosch123> Wolf01: i think m4 for roadstops is fine
21:07:56 <V453000> but shouldn't that mean that with zbase it is faster?
21:08:38 <frosch123> V453000: yes, "should" :p but what does theory matter for single computers?
21:09:37 <V453000> so what results can we expect once BRIX is complete grf and not a baseset?
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21:12:06 <frosch123> Wolf01: for roadstops the map bits do not matter that much, since they have pool entries anyway
21:12:20 <frosch123> so custom roadstop graphics could always be done via the "RoadStop" struct
21:12:25 <frosch123> i would use m4 for roadtype
21:12:38 <frosch123> anyway, starting from thursday i should have some time for nrt :)
21:34:51 <andythenorth> so reindeer farm for arctic? o-O
21:34:57 <andythenorth> it’s a legit industry, if a bit niche
21:35:03 <V453000> im not drawing reindeer
21:35:19 <V453000> we can discuss slugdeer
21:35:20 <andythenorth> Siberia, Finland, Sweden, Canada all eat reindeer…
21:36:11 <Wolf01> They eat it in the same quantity we use to eat cows?
21:36:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: BOOM should have hazardous class, shouldn't it?
21:38:09 <andythenorth> apparently, according to forums
21:38:23 <andythenorth> if I was a vehicle set author, I’d probably want it, right?
21:38:28 <V453000> did you really make BOOM label?
21:38:31 <frosch123> i have not read forums :)
21:38:46 <andythenorth> should I make a vehicle set? o_O
21:38:48 <frosch123> V453000: it is loaded while burning
21:38:56 <frosch123> you need to deliver it fast
21:39:05 <V453000> and I thought java for coffee was weird
21:39:48 <andythenorth> so what is hazardous class good for then?
21:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nothing. nobody ever used it, it's a remnant from the silly "openttd+500" "specs" that somebody decided "maybe we keep it around, it doesn't sound as absurd as the rest"
21:42:14 <andythenorth> before my time :)
21:42:17 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: really, it is from that thing?
21:42:40 <frosch123> i thought it was added with the uranium stuff, which was way before that
21:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure... but memory is not reliable across such times
21:42:48 <andythenorth> reindeer farm: disallow_desert=True,
21:43:01 * andythenorth is copy-pasting from dairy farm
21:43:12 <frosch123> no dates for reindeer?
21:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: certainly uranium was suggested earlier than that, but it wasn't included in the wiki like that
21:43:23 <andythenorth> not in this economy
21:43:34 <andythenorth> reindeer farm: allow above snowline? o_O
21:44:49 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: at some point we deleted stuff like "depleted uranium", which noone used
21:44:50 <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, i updated something, now steam doesn't start... and the solution that google gave me doesn't work
21:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, from what i can tell, the package maintainer either already applied that solution to the installation, or steam itself changed since then
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21:48:15 * andythenorth wonders what openttd+500 _was_
21:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> a bunch of forum posts by sirxavius. pretty much.
21:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, pretty much all of that stuff we deleted was from that openttd+500 thing
21:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> plus some andythenorth nonsense because he can't focus on anything :p
21:53:40 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the harzardous class already exists in the oldest version of the wiki 2007-02-19
21:53:58 <frosch123> ottd+500 is 2009-05-03
21:54:39 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe then only the ottd+500 cargos ever used it, or something
21:55:01 <andythenorth> where is the drama these days?
21:55:09 <andythenorth> we are lacking any primadonnas :(
21:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd is dying
21:55:30 <frosch123> does that make it better?
21:55:38 <andythenorth> I played it yesterday
21:56:34 <Wolf01> NRT will bring some new fresh air
21:57:08 <andythenorth> also, when I release new Arctic Basic, that’s like a whole new game :P
21:57:18 <andythenorth> or at least, it will cause someone some drama
21:57:28 <Wolf01> People play when they look at "Feature: xyz" in the changelog :P
22:01:52 <andythenorth> hmm, I’ll have to draw Rudolf for this reindeer farm
22:03:00 <Wolf01> Or better, just after xmas
22:03:47 <andythenorth> use the level crossing flashing red from the palette
22:05:26 <andythenorth> is it ridiculous for reindeer farm to produce goods?
22:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: so people who were like "thankfully this is over now" get additionally annoyed?
22:06:30 <Wolf01> No, that's a satisfaciotn, you'll eat it
22:07:03 <andythenorth> I doubt that there are trainloads of reindeer skin crossing finland daily
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22:10:58 * frosch123 is waiting for yeti with red noses
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22:12:27 <Jinassi> Could generalise it just with "game farm". A bit broader term and familiar all over the world.
22:13:41 <andythenorth> I have failed to get down to 19 cargos
22:15:16 <andythenorth> could drop grain, and import alcohol and food
22:16:15 <frosch123> oh, you replaced the old arctic, i thought you added another arctic
22:17:03 <andythenorth> I am moving the old arctic to ‘steeltown'
22:17:07 <andythenorth> or a better name
22:17:13 <andythenorth> and making it a bit bigger
22:17:14 <frosch123> if you want to remove an industry, drop the hotel imho
22:17:23 <andythenorth> industries I am actually 1 short :P
22:17:36 <frosch123> oh, right, you asked for a cargo...
22:17:42 <andythenorth> 19 cargos and 19 industries is the target :)
22:18:08 <frosch123> goods should go to reindeer farm
22:18:22 <andythenorth> for distribution
22:18:30 <andythenorth> only processed in November and December
22:19:58 <frosch123> i guess 18/20 is fine
22:20:15 <frosch123> it's same as tropic basic
22:20:22 <frosch123> so, maybe temperate basic is wrong :p
22:20:33 <andythenorth> plays nicely though :)
22:20:51 <andythenorth> I use it quite often
22:20:55 <andythenorth> no desire to change it
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22:24:26 <andythenorth> reindeer farm looks like a silly novelty
22:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> got steam working again by downgrading mesa
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22:32:58 <andythenorth> there is a valid industry, collecting sea logs
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