IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-11-19
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01:13:19 <goodger> do angry birds qualify as a cargo
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01:47:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a slingshot vehicle type in this game
01:50:28 <NGC3982> Not even a gravity one?
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02:18:26 <goodger> I ask because iirc it's finland's top export
02:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that used to be nokia phones
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04:30:00 <supermop__> this beliner weisse is the sourest weiss ive ever had
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08:50:49 <Alberth> found nice arctic cargoes?
08:52:21 <andythenorth> I am 85% done maybe
08:52:28 <andythenorth> I don’t like the furniture factory much
08:52:47 <andythenorth> (for gameplay - I like the sprites just fine :) )
08:53:32 <andythenorth> only one source of goods also
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08:55:17 <Alberth> oh, you ship the paper out
08:56:53 <andythenorth> paper coils are visually nice
08:57:30 <Alberth> indeed, just like steel coils :)
08:57:58 <Alberth> baseset has printing works for goods
08:58:51 <Alberth> but general store has already 3 sources, maybe this is enough?
08:59:21 <andythenorth> there’s room for one more cargo if it’s useful
08:59:26 * andythenorth considered furniture
09:00:02 <Alberth> bakery could be, but that'd be food too
09:01:27 <andythenorth> fish -> fertiliser is legit
09:01:33 <andythenorth> but quite a lot of fertiliser already :)
09:02:20 <Alberth> at the end of the day, grain and fish can only go to food, probably
09:02:43 <Alberth> yeah, you don't need more exotic fertilizer/chemicals, imho
09:03:12 <Alberth> you seem to be lacking another goods source
09:03:43 <Alberth> although I am not sure if that's really a problem
09:04:06 <Alberth> having a more food-centric economy may be nice too
09:05:53 <andythenorth> the tropic basic one is quite heavy on food
09:09:48 <Alberth> ah, having two is a bit too much :)
09:10:54 <andythenorth> there is lots of potential for mineral cargos
09:11:07 <andythenorth> gold, silver, uranium, copper, cobalt, etc
09:11:19 <andythenorth> but I don’t think they add anything here
09:11:57 <Alberth> maybe a simple oil chain? (oilwell -> refinery -> goods)
09:12:26 <Alberth> although it is so standard :(
09:12:39 <andythenorth> that’s why I’m not so keen
09:13:36 <Alberth> maybe use methane gas? (cooking/heating)
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09:15:04 <Alberth> wood preservation sounds like goods :)
09:15:59 <andythenorth> methane gas would be a legit input to the fertiliser plant also
09:16:05 <andythenorth> but gas goes by pipeline? o_O
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09:28:24 <Alberth> hmm, right, that would not work :)
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09:38:17 <andythenorth> we need a new transport type for pipes :)
09:41:04 <andythenorth> I think it was done already
09:41:14 <andythenorth> but we called it ‘factorio’
09:41:40 <andythenorth> “pipes don’t fit the TTD game model” said all those people now addicted to factorio :P
09:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause> who ever said that?
09:42:13 <andythenorth> nobody I’m trolling :)
09:42:44 <Alberth> I may have said that, but then again, I am not addicted to factorio :p
09:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the general consensus on pipes always was "$someone should do it, but properly"
09:46:21 <Alberth> always nice if a patch queue messes itself up :p
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10:30:13 <andythenorth_> Maybe all cargos could begin with P
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11:57:59 <Alberth> can we have tram in the scenario editor?
12:04:53 <andythenorth> peat -> power station, no integration with other chains
12:04:58 <andythenorth> not very interesting eh :P
12:08:16 <Alberth> I really like that you added coal to the steel factories, it's so much more interesting to do anything with coal
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12:13:16 <andythenorth> wood -> tar kiln -> medicine factory
12:20:56 <andythenorth> probably quite low quantities :)
12:21:09 <andythenorth> there’s no need to add more to this economy, I just find the furniture chain boring :P
12:33:10 <Alberth> ah, I like all wood related chains fun to play :)
12:39:53 <andythenorth> for realism, I should split wood (for sawing) and pulwood (for mashing)
12:40:00 <andythenorth> but eh, it doesn’t add anything afaict
12:40:27 <andythenorth> pulp wood can go by hopper car and such
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14:36:30 <andythenorth> need a name for economy with big vehicles chain in it
14:37:03 <andythenorth> ‘inspired by’ Ruhr / Rhine in Europe, Great Lakes in USA / Canada
14:37:12 <andythenorth> lots of metal bashing
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14:43:43 <andythenorth> RUBBER HITS THE ROAD
14:44:35 <andythenorth> PEDAL TO THE METAL
14:45:01 <andythenorth> EVERYTHING IS BETTER IN CAPS
14:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause> call it BAD FEATURE
14:55:07 <andythenorth> bit militaristic, rolling thunder
14:55:18 <andythenorth> being the name of the US bombing campaign in Vietnam :P
14:57:20 <andythenorth> name of a Bruce Springsteen song I bought last week :P
14:58:31 <Alberth> likely used already indeed :)
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17:25:06 <Jinassi> Good evening, I'm a bit rusty regarding comandeering a server. What do I have to do to (re)start a server with new config values? Already tried with "reload_cfg" no luck.
18:06:15 <Sylf> Jinassi, stop the server, THEN edit the config, then start the server again.
18:08:10 <V453000> Sylf: 0.1.5 on bananas <3
18:09:08 <Sylf> I forgot to update the changelog. Bleh.
18:18:47 <Jinassi> Sometning so blatantly obvious, that I tell other people to do, when fiddling config, yet I fail miserably at my own doing. Thank you @Sylf!
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20:06:16 * andythenorth plans heavy industry economy
20:06:22 <andythenorth> detailed metals chain
20:07:05 <andythenorth> iron ore + coke + limestone -> blast furnace -> pig iron
20:07:22 <andythenorth> pig iron + manganese + nickel -> steel mill -> metal
20:07:28 <Jinassi> For what industry set anythenorth?
20:07:33 <andythenorth> then vehicles and machines and stuff
20:08:01 <andythenorth> but do I do equal heavy chemicals chain? Or just ‘chemicals’ which go to lots of places
20:08:50 <andythenorth> probably just chemicals
20:09:32 <Jinassi> Have you changed cargo Id's lately?
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20:10:10 <andythenorth> the numeric IDs, or the labels?
20:15:16 <Jinassi> numeric, this was a while ago.
20:16:46 <andythenorth> they change per economy
20:16:59 <andythenorth> there’s no stability for the numeric IDs
20:21:48 <Alberth> long metal chain seems sufficient of a problem to construct, as a first shot at it :)
20:22:14 <Alberth> you can always improve by adding a long chemical chain :p
20:22:32 <andythenorth> I looked at it :)
20:22:41 <andythenorth> I think it’s fine, except I don’t understand how plastics are made
20:22:53 <andythenorth> generic ‘chemicals’ can go most places
20:23:05 <andythenorth> ‘plastics’ is also very generic, and maybe should be less so
20:23:26 <andythenorth> sometimes only having 2 industry outputs is 1 less than I’d want
20:23:38 <Alberth> doesn't really fit the chain, unless you add a car production chain :)
20:23:53 <andythenorth> car production + machines are at the top of the chain :)
20:24:08 <Alberth> cars needs loads of plastic :p
20:24:09 <andythenorth> I am trying to integrate some electrical production too, from copper mostly
20:24:26 <michi_cc> PP, PE, PVC, PU, PTFE, ABS, PLA, PS, POM, PMMA, PET, PI, PC and whatever else I've forgotten... ;p
20:24:37 <andythenorth> I have probably 5 slots left or so currently
20:24:42 <andythenorth> assuming farms aren’t needed :P
20:24:52 <andythenorth> or food comes direct from farms
20:25:02 <Alberth> nah, do them in some other economy :)
20:25:05 <andythenorth> michi_cc: yes it’s all just letters to me :)
20:25:20 <andythenorth> I have a blind spot about chemistry, not sure why
20:26:54 <andythenorth> ‘plastics’ is very broad
20:27:46 <michi_cc> PVC + copper -> cables, PE + dye -> clothing, PTFE + aluminium -> cookware :p
20:28:40 <BluesInTheNet> what about potatoes? ever thought about potatoes?
20:29:26 <andythenorth> there are all my thoughts about them
20:31:23 <andythenorth> I wondered about making an economy where all cargos begin with P
20:31:53 <andythenorth> Potatoes, Pyrite Ore, Paper, Passengers, Phosphate, Potash, Petrol
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20:38:16 <michi_cc> Oh, in case there are any chemistry nerds in this channel, I should have written PET + dye instead of PE + dye. I apologize for the inconvenience :)
20:40:25 <andythenorth> how does an electrical chain work?
20:40:32 <andythenorth> I have copper, nickel, generic ‘metal’
20:41:08 <andythenorth> I need at least ‘vehicle parts’ out of it, and maybe ‘goods’ or ‘manufacturing supplies’ or ‘electronics’
20:41:34 <andythenorth> or maybe ‘electrical parts'
20:44:44 <michi_cc> Silicon + copper + plastics -> electronics
20:45:45 <andythenorth> can I use (silica) sand as proxy for silicon?
20:45:52 <andythenorth> I have it already for glass-making
20:46:53 <BluesInTheNet> plastic pieces + plastic pieces -> slightly larger plastic pieces
20:49:11 <andythenorth> that’s denmark economy :P
20:52:17 <Alberth> 'slag' doesn't make money :p
20:52:33 <Alberth> would be nice if you could force player to handle it, though :p
20:52:41 <andythenorth> but it can be turned into cement
20:52:57 <andythenorth> I see a lot of ‘clinker’ cement trucks round here
20:53:11 <andythenorth> from steel mills
21:05:55 <michi_cc> andythenorth: silica sand is probably the most common source for silicon, but I'm not sure if it is pure enough for wafers. I doubt that matters though, an "electronics factory" is already such a huge simplification anyway.
21:06:15 <andythenorth> let’s assume it has a complete chip fab in it :)
21:10:15 <michi_cc> Even that's not enough :) More like silicon refinery (or however that is properly called) -> fabrication -> front end (chip) fab -> back end (packaging) fab
21:10:29 <michi_cc> s/fabrication/wafer fabrication/
21:14:46 <andythenorth> I’ll just put it in one big shed :)
21:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> sand->polycrystalline silicon->monocrystalline silicon->wafer->chip
21:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (and that's probably still vastly simplified)
21:18:19 <michi_cc> s/chip/processed wafer->die->bonded die->chip
21:18:51 <andythenorth> not very interesting sprites :)
21:22:08 <Alberth> last part probably suffices :p
21:23:22 <andythenorth> interesting shape
21:23:24 <Jinassi> andythenorth do you have or will you publish any test builds on bananas?
21:24:07 <andythenorth> they get compiled automatically
21:24:22 <andythenorth> but I can’t publish them to bananas, it makes a mess
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23:55:54 <BluesInTheNet> Do the cities grow forever?
23:56:51 <FLHerne> BluesInTheNet: There's a balancing point where the rate of growth and decay balance out
23:58:05 <FLHerne> You can make that basically infinite if you really want to, but natural cities tend to reach a limit <100k without silly hacks
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