IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-11-12
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01:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so weird, an industry that once was just inside my catchment area is now just outside my catchment area...
01:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and ships have a one-cargo-hold problem if used as "trunk" line
01:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> can only carry one type of cargo at a time
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04:39:43 <supermop_> well forgot to have dinner tonight
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09:11:33 <andythenorth> making an Arctic Basic economy is not very interesting :P
09:13:40 <V453000> andythenorth how would one go about a snake script which converts 32bpp to 8bpp?
09:14:00 <andythenorth> the actual sprites?
09:14:00 <V453000> I am guessing I would first take the rgb values of the indexes, create RGB ranges to filter
09:14:16 <andythenorth> sounds like a proper way to do it
09:14:25 <andythenorth> blunt way is to assign a palette to an RGB image
09:14:30 <andythenorth> forced conversion
09:14:39 <V453000> well photoshop already does that and it's shit
09:14:54 <V453000> in places where alpha isn't 0 or 1
09:15:14 <andythenorth> it will likely be always shit, unless your 32bpp palette is limited also
09:15:26 <V453000> but it won't look downright broken
09:15:32 <andythenorth> unlikely you’ll write a better algorithm than adobe
09:15:45 <V453000> no but I will handle the alpha
09:16:04 <V453000> see, in places where it's not fully opaque I could just make the base colour use a different shade in the palette
09:16:09 <andythenorth> what is that even :P
09:16:29 <V453000> it's a conversion made by taking the PNG with alpha, putting blue under it, converting to palette
09:16:43 <V453000> so the places where the shadow is half-transparent, it instead takes dark blue instead of alpha ... obviously
09:16:58 <V453000> with white it isn't much better
09:17:01 <V453000> or with any other colour
09:17:10 <andythenorth> doesn’t the 8bpp palette have some alpha colours?
09:17:17 <andythenorth> some stations use them?
09:17:25 <V453000> that's defined in the code
09:17:52 * andythenorth has never even tried to do that
09:18:16 <andythenorth> anyway, you want to detect all pixels with alpha < 1
09:18:17 <V453000> me neither but I am pretty confident it is done that way
09:18:26 <andythenorth> and then replace them all with blue
09:18:30 <V453000> well I will detect all with alpha >50 and <50
09:18:53 <V453000> under 50 will get removed, over 50 will get darkened shade of the base colour, and set alpha to 1
09:18:55 <V453000> or something like that
09:19:12 <andythenorth> I am about to go offline
09:19:37 <andythenorth> but PIL masks are usually just black and white
09:19:42 <andythenorth> but you can make one on demand
09:19:48 <andythenorth> Road Hog does it to mask cargo
09:21:05 <andythenorth> the lambda is converting pink to black
09:21:28 <V453000> vehicle_cargo_rows_image.putpalette(DOS_PALETTE) this line is important for me :)
09:21:31 <andythenorth> you just need a bigger range of values to check, and you need to check in the alpha layer, not the single palette image
09:21:59 <andythenorth> .point() I think replaces pixels point-for-point
09:22:21 <V453000> I have a function f or that already
09:22:27 <V453000> setpixel I think it is
09:22:40 <andythenorth> they have varying speeds, you need the fastest ultimately
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11:01:38 <andythenorth> V453000: range replacement I do shitloads of
11:01:45 <andythenorth> for recolouring cargos and stuff
11:02:48 <andythenorth> find colour: replace with colour
11:03:46 <andythenorth> that’s a dict comprehension, the result is a dict with 8 values in
11:15:22 <Alberth> to compensate, leave 2 seconds earlier
11:20:14 <Alberth> V453000: if you have a 32bpp sprite, a 8 bit palette, and a definition of 'closest', it should be quite trivial
11:22:54 <Alberth> or rather a notion of "distance" between 32bpp colour and a 8bpp colour
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11:33:38 <andythenorth> python doesn’t need ; chars :P
11:33:41 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
11:34:18 * andythenorth has 91 ‘legacy’ spritesheets and 49 ‘current’
11:34:33 <andythenorth> what I need is 140 ‘current’
11:35:24 <Alberth> maybe you're converting in the wrong direction? :p
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12:58:38 <andythenorth> ‘legacy’ can’t fit 10/8 vehicles on
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13:36:12 <V453000> I just realized it isn't so straight forward to be able to tell if colours are actually similar in RGB
13:41:40 <Wolf01> A topic I followed to know how to use colours in development suggested to use the Lab colour space
13:42:59 <Wolf01> Mainly for blend modes
13:43:52 <V453000> is this even valid somehow?
13:44:12 <V453000> since I am "just"comparing palette colours to some other colours, both electronic without screen shit?
13:45:10 <Wolf01> IDK, really, I still have troubles recolouring my game objects with a mask :P
13:49:14 <V453000> the problem is converting from 32bpp to 8bpp in general
13:51:38 <Wolf01> Lol, calculation in colour spaces use immaginary colours like complex numbers in math
14:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> imaginary numbers are fun
14:10:08 <V453000> for starters I will probably interpret RGB as cube and just compare the distances between points
14:11:00 <V453000> if that fails then maybe diving into this CIE bullfuck
14:13:34 <Alberth> my first simplistic attempt would be sum of differences in r,g, and b component, multiplied by the conversion factor used for greyscale conversion, as the latter is an indication how strong we perceive colour differences in a channel
14:14:04 <V453000> yes something like that
14:14:36 <Alberth> contrast, but for each colour component individually
14:19:17 <Alberth> maybe take the square, to make many small differences favourable against one big difference
14:19:47 <V453000> I think distance in cube is a good measure
14:20:22 <V453000> then I will just make some comparing function which sorts the distances "closest" to the index colours
14:20:29 <V453000> and list the RGB possibilities
14:20:32 <V453000> list will be long. :D
14:20:56 <V453000> I wonder how fast will the computer output the 16.7M values
14:22:25 <Alberth> just test every colour that you find against the 256 options
14:23:05 <V453000> wouldn't it be faster with pre-computed list? Assuming FUCKING LARGE spritesheets?
14:23:32 <V453000> bridges are 16384 x 3200 for example
14:23:54 <V453000> landscape 4864 x 8000
14:23:58 <Alberth> you don't want just Z1 for 8bpp?
14:24:18 <Alberth> normal zoom, as in original
14:24:49 <V453000> but still, whether pre-process or not sounds like it matters little in this scale, right?
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14:29:32 <V453000> Alberth: the general colour conversion is fine
14:29:38 <V453000> the issue is alpha, and having control over it
14:30:28 <Wolf01> Yup, it seem to suffer from the gif-ify effect
14:30:48 <Alberth> right, so why not just fix alpha then, and then apply photoshop, gimp, whatever?
14:31:17 <V453000> because I want the alpha to actually do something, like if the pixel is pure black, but half-transparent, I want the output pixel to be half-gray
14:31:20 <Alberth> Wolf01: 1/11th original size is not for free :)
14:31:28 <V453000> idk if it actually makes sense to do
14:32:03 <Alberth> ok, fix alpha + colour then (for the non-opaque pixels)
14:32:13 <Wolf01> Mmmh, it will be gray only with a white background
14:33:07 <V453000> fixing alpha + colour isn't really doable in any graphical program as far as I know
14:33:38 <Alberth> pretty simple in Pillow
14:34:00 <Alberth> and a whole lot simpler than colour conversion to 8bpp
14:34:19 <Alberth> although it can be fun to figure it how it works
14:49:09 <V453000> maybe defining x4 zoom 8bpp isn't a terrible idea either
14:55:10 <peter1138> we should've just stopped at 1x 8bpp :p
14:57:21 <V453000> it always looks better in the end anyway
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15:31:07 <Alberth> hmm, asking for the other end of a bridge while dealing with a tunnel, doesn't work :p
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15:36:02 <argoneus> good morning train friends
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16:28:48 <supermop_> trump thread has been bike-shedded
16:29:57 <supermop_> time to play with trains then
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18:38:40 <supermop_> V453000: nice asiastar
18:44:07 <V453000> it's far from finished but I will probably just plop down concepts of all trains now
18:44:13 <V453000> because I have sketches of all of them on paper
18:44:19 <V453000> and I can finalize them at some random points
19:10:54 <supermop_> andythenorth: 136knh gondola shows no cargo sprites for wood or paper in arctic basic
19:14:32 <andythenorth> actually, it’s irrelevant, IH gondolas only show a tarp or bulk, currently
19:14:37 <andythenorth> working on that currently
19:15:12 <supermop_> a full car does seem to show a tarp
19:15:36 <supermop_> anything less than 35 t shows empty gondola
19:16:33 <andythenorth> it’ll take a few days to get generated cargo working
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19:22:51 <Michaellaneous> I got a question about secondary track. I have 4 lanes each, two going in each direction.
19:23:08 <Michaellaneous> The two middle lanes have a junction for a station, the outwards two are supposed for train to pass through.
19:23:32 <Michaellaneous> How can I direct the trains onto the correct track? i.e. the trains that need to go to the station to the middle two, and the ones that need to pass to the outer?
19:24:38 <Michaellaneous> Ohhh, waypoints.
19:24:43 <Michaellaneous> Sorry, should have looked at the wiki earlier!
19:28:42 <Alberth> if you add a junction close before the station, trains passing through will try to avoid the platform
19:29:10 <Michaellaneous> That would be a good idea!
19:29:14 <Michaellaneous> But I don't build that was sadly.
19:29:24 <Michaellaneous> I have one main highway for trains.
19:29:28 <Michaellaneous> And all the stations branch off that.
19:29:33 <Michaellaneous> I just...like it more that way.
19:30:12 <Michaellaneous> Recently god back into the OpenTTD fevern.
19:30:19 <Michaellaneous> And with FIRS on extreme it scratches that special itch.
19:31:16 <Alberth> distance stuff fixed already?
19:31:31 <Michaellaneous> What do you mean?
19:31:43 <Alberth> I had a few times where the industries to connect were ridiculously close to each other
19:32:19 <Alberth> they could have thrown the cargo over a tile themselves :p
19:32:30 <Michaellaneous> I am playing with normal industry density and I did not run into that problem.
19:32:52 <Michaellaneous> Actually, getting producting/manufacturing/consuming industries together in a chain is quite the challenge!
19:33:12 <Michaellaneous> Did you set FIRS to extreme or did you leave it on the default settings?
19:33:29 <Michaellaneous> Because extreme adds like 100% more industries and chains, so naturally they are much further apart.
19:33:38 <Alberth> I play FIRS extreme only with busy-bee
19:34:10 <Michaellaneous> Oh, does that set goals for cargo?
19:34:11 <Alberth> without that, I play a basic climate usually, with few industries
19:34:14 <Michaellaneous> Damn I gotta try that out.
19:34:32 <Alberth> yep it gives you small cargo goals to connect
19:34:49 <Alberth> "transport 25 tonne coal to power station"
19:35:02 <Alberth> "transport 3500 mail to blah town"
19:35:15 <Michaellaneous> Speaking of connecting, is there a way to easily connect stations together?
19:35:22 <Michaellaneous> I had that problem with a drydock and a trainstation.
19:35:29 <Michaellaneous> Had to delete the trainstation because it was 1 tile apart.
19:35:34 <Michaellaneous> And cargo did not get shared.
19:35:43 <Alberth> building against each other works
19:35:51 <glx> only build with ctrl I think
19:35:59 <glx> no way to link them later
19:36:12 <Alberth> other wise hold ctrl while building, and you get a window to select a station to connect from
19:36:44 <Alberth> it does need some setting to be enabled, so if it doesn't work, check station settings
19:37:01 <glx> the usual magic ctrl key ;)
19:39:09 <glx> and deleting a station to rebuild it can be a problem if the town hates you
19:40:32 <Michaellaneous> but that was an industry.
19:41:14 <glx> in this case you can build a road station linked to the train station
19:41:48 <Michaellaneous> Also, how do you space your block signals?
19:42:08 <Michaellaneous> I feel like 8 is way too narrow.
19:42:41 <Michaellaneous> Me too, but you know what I mean.
19:42:50 <Michaellaneous> On a perfectly straight track with no junctions.
19:43:06 <Alberth> 6 tiles or so, with 5 tile trains
19:43:31 <Michaellaneous> Ah, i use 8 tiles train.
19:43:42 <Alberth> but it's not fixed with me, I just play with whatever length it has, unless it's very short
19:44:32 <Alberth> I play with breakdowns enabled, so I need lots of space at the track anyway
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27680 trunk/src/lang/romanian.txt (2016-11-12 19:45:38 +0100 )
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> romanian: 1 change by kneekoo
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