IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-10-28
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02:08:31 <Ethereal_Shiver> I'm playing OpenTTD in class instead of paying attention
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03:18:56 <womble> It's called "doing homework for my logistics class"
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10:14:05 <Alberth> bit empty, for the amount of track :)
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10:15:48 <Alberth> why do you have such short platforms? wouldn't longer trains be more efficient here?
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15:56:01 <Ethereal_Whisper> I had a question about MSH's
15:56:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> So let's say that as usual the MSH is a 3-way T junction. You have traffic coming east and west and both turning to the north, towards the station
15:57:08 <Ethereal_Whisper> Is there any reason to prioritize traffic coming in from one direction when the two directions form the MSL?
15:58:27 <Ethereal_Whisper> So let's say that as usual the MSH is a 3-way T junction. You have traffic coming east and west and both turning to the north, towards the station
15:59:28 <Ethereal_Whisper> MSL entering station is eastbound, I have traffic coming in from the north and the south (well I will eventually, I'm in the planning stage of the network and designing this MSH
16:05:05 <Wolf01> I think you still keep doing the same errors
16:05:57 <Ethereal_Whisper> What did I do this time
16:06:13 <Wolf01> Read it as "overcomplicate junctions with priorities and too many trains"
16:06:36 <Wolf01> I don't get 50 trains in an entire game
16:06:45 <Wolf01> And still make huge profits
16:09:54 <Ethereal_Whisper> I think my record for number of trains in one game was about 1,200 on a 512x512 map
16:10:09 <Ethereal_Whisper> That was the first game I played where I learned how to build quad track mainlines
16:11:42 <Wolf01> I do that too, but only from the station up to the first junction when I have about half of trains on each line
16:16:58 <Wolf01> V453000, how do you download more than one mod?
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16:43:48 <supermop> i think i am now arguing on forums in support of baldy's boss instead of against
16:45:30 <supermop> even though i started as arguing against
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16:55:08 <supermop> how's it going Alberth ?
16:56:01 <Alberth> mostly needing some coffee now
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18:32:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> I love it when I accidentally place a backwards signal and my trains head down a random sideline
18:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause> is that better or worse than forgetting a random piece of electrification?
18:34:02 <Ethereal_Whisper> Tiny bit better I'd think... at least in my case, my trains will make it to their destination... eventually.
18:34:23 <Ethereal_Whisper> ;Although depending on circumstance, yours might too, they just might take a convoluted route
18:34:43 <Wolf01> And you never played with pipelines, you can't even see what kind of signal you placed
18:39:20 <supermop> easier to just not use signals with pipe
18:39:44 <supermop> and have relay points
18:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i still think these "pipes" made all the wrong choices...
18:40:23 <Wolf01> Yes, they need to be done with RoadTypes
18:40:37 <supermop> at least as just a standalone newgrf theey don't impinge on a future pipe working better
18:40:50 <supermop> Wolf01: pipes should be one way only
18:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> there are certainly two-way pipes
18:41:31 <supermop> and not based on a current waytype
18:41:55 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: not at the same time unless its two pipes
18:43:09 <supermop> one advantage of a pipe from oil well to terminal is you don't need an empty return pipe, the way you'd need to send empty tanker cars
18:43:40 <supermop> and if two points do need to send liquids in both directions, you should build two pipes
18:44:33 <Wolf01> Agreed, but there's no teleport in OTTD yet
18:45:16 <supermop> pipes, conveyors, bucketlines, logflumes, etc where cargo is carried continuously by the infrastructure should work in that way
18:51:01 <supermop> basically there is no existing mechanic in the game that would approximate it
18:54:54 <supermop> other than some kind of 'pump' in the form of a magic depot that constantly spawns units of carrying capacity at a certain rate, which behave like road vehicles with no orders, picking up cargo where it is waiting, dropping it where accepted, and blindly following the available path forward
18:56:13 <Wolf01> Buy vehicle, cost 1$ -> move $1 per day -> Sell, do this automagically between 2 depots and is done
18:56:39 <Wolf01> Using RoadTypes so cargo could pile up in the line
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18:57:07 <Wolf01> And vehicle can carry 1 unit of cargo
18:57:37 <Wolf01> In case of fluids, 1x100 litres barrel
19:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen the term "4X" all over the place lately, but nobody could explain to me what it means
19:08:49 <Wolf01> expand explore exwhatever...
19:09:48 <Wolf01> "eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate"
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19:14:07 <frosch123> when a bug fix for station walking?
19:15:59 <Wolf01> Qhat does it need to fix?
19:16:23 <frosch123> i just quoted a mail, though i replaced a screenshot with a noun
19:16:56 <Wolf01> Answer: "it's by design"
19:17:10 <Wolf01> "You can even do it with less effort using ctrl"
19:18:14 <Wolf01> The catchement area maybe could be fixed, as now it's a huge exploit
19:20:19 <goodger> it happens every year, Wolf01
19:20:35 <goodger> twice if you move between hemispheres
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19:43:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (where "BAD" stands for "Broken As Designed")
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19:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: but that means you could avoid it entirely by that method
19:48:27 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: it does, but who wants to get hayfever twice?
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20:52:39 <andythenorth> so much ISO 27001
20:54:37 <andythenorth> are there pictures somewhere?
20:54:48 <andythenorth> I love the City fans
20:54:59 <andythenorth> they’re on a par with Apple fans
20:55:10 <andythenorth> ‘OMG, more police, Lego is dying’
20:55:18 <Wolf01> I got the Caterham and VW Beetle today
20:55:19 <andythenorth> ‘OMG, it’s just a laptop, Apple is dying'
20:55:54 <andythenorth> Wolf01: mash them together ;)
20:56:17 <Wolf01> I won't even open them... I still have the Mini MISB
20:56:28 <andythenorth> boring Eurobricks is boring today
20:57:26 <andythenorth> V453000: YOU MUST BUY SURFACE
20:57:31 <andythenorth> HAS BEEN DECLARED COOL
20:57:44 <andythenorth> DRAW ALL TRAINS IN SURFACE
20:58:16 <andythenorth> is that what V453000 looks like? :o
21:02:17 <Wolf01> andythenorth, new cargo, wind turbine blades?
21:02:34 <andythenorth> that was going to be a FIRS thing
21:02:38 <andythenorth> ‘build a wind farm'
21:05:24 <andythenorth> who has 32GB RAM?
21:05:35 <andythenorth> apparently it’s now pretty much mandatory
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21:07:46 * andythenorth reading mac forums, which are weird
21:08:06 <andythenorth> apparently lack of 32GB Macbook Pro means Apple is dead and the stock will now tank
21:08:35 <andythenorth> weird people who buy a computer in closed ecosystem, from a vendor who is known to be ruthless
21:08:38 <andythenorth> and then they whine about it
21:11:24 <frosch123> computers are dead :)
21:11:42 <andythenorth> have been forever
21:11:56 <frosch123> anyway, the "easy stats" are indeed the same when comparing 2010 and 2016
21:12:03 <Wolf01> Computers are dead until you need a new one
21:12:07 <frosch123> same number of cores, same amount of memory
21:12:38 <Alberth> you're not supposed to do more complex things nowadays
21:12:53 <frosch123> ssd are bigger, and multi-display is more common, but that's about it
21:16:32 * andythenorth wonders how people are still managing to need more than 16GB frequently
21:17:52 <andythenorth> could have been brutal :o
21:18:21 <Wolf01> Proven that Balrog's whip can't cut steel beams
21:18:55 <Wolf01> Can't cut Gandalf's leg too
21:18:56 <andythenorth> the number of times I have found that my computer is slow because it’s in swap….
21:19:15 <Wolf01> How the fuck do you even manage to swap with 16GB?
21:19:36 <andythenorth> maybe running multiple Windows VMs
21:19:39 <andythenorth> but not noticeably
21:19:43 <frosch123> i have that issue on an 8gb machine regulary :)
21:19:48 <andythenorth> plus…err SSD with SATA 3 or something
21:20:04 <Wolf01> I did... memory leak on my game 2 days ago, tried to allocate 40GB in 6 seconds
21:20:31 <andythenorth> numpty on forum complains “I have to restart my mac every 2-3 days because it’s out of memory”
21:20:38 <andythenorth> err, no, restart Firefox :P
21:20:49 <frosch123> though i never quite figured out the point of swapping
21:20:57 <frosch123> once the swapping starts the machine is useless
21:20:59 <andythenorth> as usual, reading the wrong forum causes andythenorth rant
21:21:59 <frosch123> andythenorth: that is definitely a reason to buy more memory
21:22:08 <frosch123> so it only runs out after 10 days
21:23:33 <frosch123> btw. what are apple updates like?
21:23:40 <andythenorth> OS ones? Or hardware?
21:23:51 <frosch123> are they like windows with at least one 1 reboot, sometimes 2, or even 3?
21:24:01 <andythenorth> they are very variable
21:24:03 <frosch123> or are they like linux, reboot only if kernel updates
21:24:13 <andythenorth> usually only reboot for kernel or similar
21:24:19 <andythenorth> but they can be sketchy
21:24:28 <andythenorth> I installed one on Tuesday that bricked my mac
21:24:47 <andythenorth> and that is not rare enough
21:25:14 <andythenorth> 7 hours faffing with backups
21:25:23 <frosch123> i thought that only happens with smartphones :)
21:26:22 * andythenorth wonders what the mac fans expected in a new laptop
21:26:25 <andythenorth> they all seem very sad
21:26:52 <andythenorth> power cord with emojis?
21:28:37 * andythenorth would have settled for (a) same or longer battery life, not shorter (b) no 20% price hike
21:28:53 <Wolf01> To not pay for standard features as accessories?
21:29:05 <Wolf01> Oh, my bad, that's Apple motto: less is more
21:29:52 <frosch123> do laptop batteries also burn regulary? or is that only a smartphone thing?
21:30:37 <frosch123> also, are tablets finally dead? or did someone find some use?
21:31:13 <Alberth> maybe it's a function where the chance increases as the laptop approaches smartphone size?
21:31:54 <frosch123> also do laptops still have cd drives?
21:32:00 <andythenorth> tablets are for entertaining children
21:32:16 <andythenorth> and for grandparents
21:32:39 <Wolf01> Children and people which don't need a pc to do the same things
21:32:41 <frosch123> can we have some outdoor tablet then?
21:33:18 <frosch123> Wolf01: i thought that's what a ps4 is for
21:33:19 <andythenorth> ipad is surprisingly robust
21:33:45 <andythenorth> we have one that’s been outside, on planes, by the pool, in bed, thrown down the stairs, dropped etc
21:34:00 <andythenorth> slept on, trodden on, fought over
21:35:39 <andythenorth> apparently if Jobs was still alive, the new Macbook would *definitely* have been two sheets of glass, both displays, but with a full keyboard with real clicky keys, every kind of port, 64GB, a desktop class GPU, 10 hour battery life and a 5K display
21:35:48 <andythenorth> for the same price as the previous model
21:36:46 <andythenorth> all “I’ve been using macs for 30 years and now I’m seriously considering switching” people
21:36:47 <frosch123> "every kind of port" is interesting, given that all of Jobs has always been "minimalism"
21:39:11 <frosch123> i think i read that some years ago
21:39:16 <frosch123> probably also from this chanel :)
21:39:36 <andythenorth> new mac charges via the thunderbolt port
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21:40:04 <andythenorth> in principle, you can no longer trust mains electricity
21:40:24 <andythenorth> proper tinfoil hat land
21:52:45 <frosch123> doesn't look like paintbrush
21:53:11 <andythenorth> I don’t think it will fit in my bag
21:53:30 <andythenorth> how much battery life?
21:53:44 <Wolf01> I don't think is battery powered
21:55:03 * andythenorth wonders why the mac people are comparing the price of it to macbooks
21:55:04 <frosch123> is it cloud powered? and does it transfer the rights of what you draw to ms?
21:55:40 <Wolf01> Win 10 does that already, no need for new hardware
21:55:44 <andythenorth> how long is the battery life on a cloud?
21:57:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: maybe they are comparing the keyboard of the two
21:58:10 <frosch123> i mean that surface thing does not look like it has an ESC key
21:59:10 <frosch123> though, given that we are back to one input device again, maybe we will regain a scroll lock :p
21:59:12 <Wolf01> Bluetooth keyboard, also you don't even need a keyboard with windows
21:59:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: innovation :)
21:59:50 <frosch123> Wolf01: windows is responsible for at least 3 completely useless keys
22:00:23 <Wolf01> Scroll lock, context menu and?
22:00:29 <frosch123> that is 3 out of the top 5 completely useless keys
22:00:50 <frosch123> 2xwin, context, scroll lock, pause
22:00:57 * andythenorth wonders what these idiots actually want :)
22:01:05 <andythenorth> they don’t like tablets
22:01:08 <frosch123> "print screen" has a usecase as hotkey for launching a single program
22:01:29 <Wolf01> I even found a way to use scroll lock on MS softwares
22:01:31 <frosch123> (though it is kind of specific)
22:01:57 <Wolf01> Win+Pause takes screenshots now
22:02:47 <frosch123> oh, i forgot caps lock in the list
22:03:09 <frosch123> though maybe that one is more annoying than useless :p
22:03:19 <andythenorth> mine still has a little green light in it :)
22:03:39 <andythenorth> must be an actual LED under there
22:06:10 <andythenorth> I will have to get a USB escape key if I get the new mac
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22:07:51 <frosch123> you could map caps lock to esc
22:07:59 <frosch123> that may also make vi useful again
22:08:13 <frosch123> same keyboard layout as it was developed for
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22:08:58 <frosch123> yeah, that must be it. the new mac is for optimising vi usage
22:09:34 <andythenorth> for mac and surface users
22:10:01 <andythenorth> I have stumbled into a forum where “Apple is dead because they have stopped making monitors"
22:10:02 <Wolf01> You don't need the ESC key on windows
22:10:16 <andythenorth> what kind of numpty ever bought an Apple display :o
22:10:19 <Wolf01> I only use it to exit my game
22:10:52 <frosch123> andythenorth: for some time they were the only ones building 30 inch screens
22:11:04 <andythenorth> about 15 years ago :)
22:11:12 <andythenorth> when even windows users bought them
22:12:05 * andythenorth uses ESC all the time in OpenTTD, but can’t remember why
22:12:24 <frosch123> to deselct the curren tool
22:14:13 * andythenorth wonders if a £200 premium over old model is worth it for fingerprint ID
22:14:28 <andythenorth> I have to use a password with 44 bits of entropy…because infosec
22:14:40 <andythenorth> and I have to lock laptop if unattended, even briefly, anywhere
22:15:01 <andythenorth> I usually type it wrong, and I type it tens of times per day :P
22:17:31 <Wolf01> They should make 2 versions of ISO 27001, the lite one for companies which don't have governative secrets or manage users bank accounts or medical data, and the current one for where you need max security
22:18:26 <andythenorth> you can choose to not apply control
22:18:39 <andythenorth> you just have to have a risk profile
22:18:50 <andythenorth> dunno, there’s this standard in the UK called Cyber Essentials
22:18:58 <andythenorth> which is supposed to be like ISO 27001 Lite
22:19:03 <andythenorth> and is mosly terrible
22:22:53 <Wolf01> Sometimes security is strange, like with PPE, my mother does blood samples and need to use gloves. Usually you don't even get in contact with the person blood, but it might happen that the person moves and the needle slips, and YOU get punctured, gloves or not.
22:27:49 <andythenorth> can’t mitigate all risks :)
22:28:33 <andythenorth> probably can mitigate needlestick, with the right needles
22:31:47 <Wolf01> Nah, just sedate the patient so he can't move
22:38:10 <andythenorth> sedation is good
22:38:19 * andythenorth should go to bed
22:38:49 <Wolf01> But I'll go 3 hours later
22:40:33 * andythenorth learns about USB-C and USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt
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23:37:27 <Youbi> Hello! I’m trying to run openttd (built from nightly). But it claims that I miss a graphics set.
23:37:46 <Youbi> So I built OpenGFX, and put the resulting tar archive in my ~/.openttd/baseset dir
23:39:15 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
23:39:16 <Youbi> And now, when I run openttd, it still claims that I miss a graphics set, but before that, it tells me that there is :
23:39:18 <Youbi> No MD5 checksum specified for: ogfx1_base.grf
23:39:33 <Youbi> How can I specify the checksum for that file?
23:41:29 <Youbi> Should I build OpenGFX from it’s latest source revision?
23:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you didn't copy the .obg file
23:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause> or it didn't generate properly
23:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe try downloading the already-made file?
23:47:23 <Youbi> Eddi|zuHause: it works!
23:47:29 <Youbi> I tried the already-made file.
23:47:58 <Youbi> I was stupid, I thought that it wouldn’t run because I’m on a libmusl based system. But there is nothing to do with it.
23:48:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the .grf files are universal for all platforms
continue to next day ⏵
