IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-10-26
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01:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the facebook what?
02:05:14 <goodger> isn't facebook still mostly written in PHP and javascript
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05:43:04 <Hilton> Hello. I'd like to ask a question... when servicing a city, do you get better results from a single train station with bus/lorry stations combined into it (one single large station coverage area encompassing the whole town), or by having individual bus/lorry stops and having actual buses running around town? For the latter, is it better to have some buses with Transfer orders to the train...
05:46:49 <Hilton> I can see that I see to get much better ratings with buses running around to separate stations, but it also seems like the income is worse. Is that right?
05:56:25 <Sylf> What's your definition of "better results" in this case?
05:57:10 <Sylf> Income, town rating, town growth, station rating, game score, other?
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05:58:29 <Hilton> Income. I have a good idea on how it affects most of the rest.
05:59:50 <Sylf> Then, it's probably easiest to have some kind of local transport, taking pax and mail from all parts of town to single train station
06:00:05 <Sylf> then let the train do long distance transport
06:00:39 <Hilton> By way of transfers, not regular cargo runs, right?
06:00:41 <Sylf> assuming you're not using infrastructure maintenance cost feature
06:00:56 <Sylf> it depends on the cargo dist setting
06:01:10 <Sylf> with cargo dist, using transfer order actually doesn't make sense
06:01:40 <Sylf> without cargo dist, use transfer order when unloading local transport vehicles
06:03:20 <Hilton> What's the default? Other than some purely visual items and realistic acceleration, most of my settings are 1.6.1 default
06:16:40 <Sylf> not sure. probably without cargo dist
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06:24:04 <Hilton> Distribution Mode for all cargo types is set to Manual
06:24:09 <Hilton> no automatic distribution
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13:02:28 <Wolf01> Since I already demontrated that I'm incredibly stupid, how do I convert a flag to its bit position?
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13:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a "find first bit" macro somewhere
13:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> src/core/bitmath_func.hpp:uint8 FindFirstBit(uint32 x);
13:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that
13:11:14 <Wolf01> I have some memories of log2(value) or something like that
13:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but log is an extremely expensive operation
13:11:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also, floating point.
13:12:33 <Wolf01> Ok, that function is a good approximation, could I borrow it?
13:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a single bit set, you just right-shift until the value is zero
13:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and count the steps
13:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's GPL. the usual rules apply
13:14:11 <Wolf01> Usually I take stuff from public domain only (stackoverflow snippets if they don't have a license)
13:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you know what you're looking for you might find other sources with similar functions that don't have GPL...
13:16:10 <Wolf01> Or maybe I could just do it in another way
13:16:25 <Wolf01> Instead of using a normal array I use a dictionary
13:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> well that is pretty much what i said
13:17:45 <Wolf01> Thanks asie, it will be really useful in future
13:18:40 <Wolf01> Also thanks Eddi to point me towards the implementation, so I can search better :)
13:19:08 <Wolf01> (I expected a "GetBitPos()")
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14:54:09 <Milek7> why store multiple flags packed in one byte?
14:55:19 <goodger> it was somewhat less cheap in 1993
14:56:27 <Milek7> yes, but i guess that Wolf01 is writing something new
14:58:28 <Wolf01> Memory is cheap but writing type = A | B | C instead of type[] = {A, B, C} is cleaner, specially when you have to write a 300 chars long line
15:06:07 <Milek7> what are you trying to do? what flags are stored in type?
15:07:00 <_dp_> well then, why not {"A", "B", "C"} it is more flexible and doesn't pollute global namespace ;)
15:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the most stupid argument i have ever heard...
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15:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> "hey, let's circumvent this feature where the compiler tells me when i made a typo"
15:09:19 <_dp_> well, it's more of a python way, there is no compiler xD
15:10:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you just use it as a seamlessly integrated compiler in the interpreter
15:10:55 <_dp_> whatever, any typos are runtime
15:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> still better than silently failing
15:12:40 <_dp_> you have tests and asserts for it not to be silent
15:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that's even better... "let's circumvent this builtin feature and reimplement it"
15:15:45 <SpComb> you wouldn't have an array of flags, that would be expensive to test for flags being set
15:16:18 <_dp_> there are no enums in python, though you can reimplement them the other way
15:16:56 <Wolf01> I'm not using python :)
15:18:50 <_dp_> Wolf01, to be honest, there is no need for enum type when you can just do ZERO, ONE, TWO = range(3)
15:20:21 <Wolf01> I use enums to avoid using a wrong value
15:21:21 <Wolf01> Because "Directions.UP" and "Side.UP" might have a different value, other than different meaning
15:26:00 <Wolf01> I could use constants as DIRECTION_UP and SIDE_UP, but they are both "int" and I could put any int value as function argument
15:28:11 <Wolf01> If I want to check if AllowedDirection(Directions d) returns true if the direction is UP or DOWN, I would use a flag, because hardcoded ifs are not the solution, and allowed_directions.Contain(d) is expensive
15:28:52 <Wolf01> So, if you have better arguments, then I'm here and I can read
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15:58:05 <Wolf01> I need a level editor...
16:19:25 <argoneus> good afternoon train friends
16:22:43 <supermop___> i generally like my levels the way they come from the factory, but editing one to have the bubble at 30 degrees would be nice
16:23:20 <Wolf01> I need to make the levels first, my factory is empty XD
16:23:33 <Eddi|zuHause> new LevelFactory()
16:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> LevelFactory.getLevel()
16:24:41 <Wolf01> If the levels folder is empty, it can't load anything
16:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> 1. collect underpants
16:33:58 <Wolf01> 4. like what you have done
16:43:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that's way more steps, no wonder it doesn't work...
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19:16:32 <argoneus> Shpuld: why is eurobeat such a good genre
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19:24:05 <Alberth> too late, it's broadcasted over the entire Internet already
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20:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the participle of "cast" is "cast", no "-ed"
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20:54:46 <frosch123> is "cast" related to "cat"?
21:00:15 <Alberth> it's a cat with an additional letter?
21:01:04 <V453000> I thought rails for openttd were hell
21:01:12 <V453000> until I started working on high resolution factorio rails
21:01:21 <V453000> in openttd many of the problems are simply unsolvable
21:01:26 <V453000> in factorio it's much more complex
21:01:44 <V453000> because you actually have to solve them :D
21:01:56 <V453000> also moar resolution = more hell
21:02:36 <frosch123> is f also only sprite-sorting? or does it use some z buffer?
21:03:23 <frosch123> so you need sprites for all junction combinations :p
21:03:30 <V453000> well that's the problem
21:03:37 <V453000> there are NO junction combinations :D
21:03:48 <V453000> all tracks are drawn exactly the same way in ALL cases
21:03:56 <V453000> so they need to tile in all imaginable combinations
21:04:30 <V453000> it's 100 sprites in high, and 100 sprites in low resolution anyway XD
21:04:31 <frosch123> i guess your best try is to convince them to add a z buffer then :p
21:04:48 <V453000> (each tile consists of 4 layers so it's like 24 or something tiles)
21:05:02 <V453000> nah I actually solved pretty much all of it now
21:05:11 <Alkel_U3> you can blur that and get away with it in lowres, in one of the last hi-res FFF it looked like a decent clusterfuck of sleepers
21:05:27 <V453000> there are a few unsolvable things which I am just trying to solve visually to minimize their visibility
21:05:30 <frosch123> i can only play f in low res anyway :)
21:05:32 <V453000> but it's going well :)
21:05:38 <V453000> frosch123: time for a new gpu :P
21:05:41 <Alkel_U3> I'm really curious what it will look like
21:05:51 <V453000> but I'm reworking the lowres as well
21:05:57 <V453000> so the system will be there, just not as many pixels :P
21:06:16 <frosch123> considered that, but it was kind of rude that f managed to lock up the whole computer by running out of gpu memory or something
21:06:49 <V453000> you should see what blender does when it runs out of vram
21:07:15 <V453000> [freezes the pc for several minutes completely, shuts down monitors, crashes blender]
21:09:41 <andythenorth> today I ISO 27001
21:10:05 <V453000> don't think I want to know what that ISO means
21:10:17 <frosch123> V453000: you need it to get public money
21:10:34 <andythenorth> also child #1 has been vomiting all day
21:10:47 <andythenorth> and the nanny vomited so child #2 was also here all afternoon
21:10:58 <frosch123> the dog of a coworker was vomiting at the office yesterday all day
21:10:58 <andythenorth> wife just got hom
21:11:34 <V453000> wife is at cinema for the first time after a long time, am home with #1
21:11:46 <andythenorth> won’t be making #2 that way
21:12:05 <andythenorth> baby monitor TV?
21:12:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: you don’t _need_ 27001 to get public money
21:12:43 <andythenorth> but it’s a shitload more paperwork to fill in quite often, compared to just getting the ISO
21:13:10 <andythenorth> “oh you have ISO 27001” versus “here is our infosec compliance spreadsheet"
21:14:16 <frosch123> don't think any customer would know about the latter
21:18:14 <andythenorth> or their IT dept does
22:10:15 <andythenorth> or ‘devices will conform to a controlled configuration'
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23:44:58 <Wolf01> A. Use one timer with "reloadTime / level" (you start with 1, you can shot one projectile for each reload)
23:44:58 <Wolf01> B. Instance n-level timers and each projectile has it's own reloadTime (you can shot up to "level" projectiles at the same time but reload time stay the same)
23:45:53 <Wolf01> Which one would be better?
23:50:23 <andythenorth> see what gameplay demands
23:50:46 <andythenorth> I made maybe 30 or 40 commercial flash games
23:50:50 <Wolf01> A is already in place, and I think it's the original game behaviour
23:51:02 <andythenorth> I learnt when to do the minimum, and when to plan ahead for flexibility
23:51:08 <Wolf01> But I don't want to make the exact original game
23:51:36 <andythenorth> how many guns, just one?
23:51:45 <andythenorth> tanks have multiple weapon systems… ;)
23:51:49 <Wolf01> One, some tanks have 2
23:52:21 <Wolf01> I think that leveling up you just will be better at reloading
23:52:54 <Wolf01> But for 2 guns tanks you should be able to shot 2 times with 2 reloads
23:53:31 <andythenorth> you can’t reload until the projectile has landed / exploded?
23:53:38 <andythenorth> or it’s a fixed rate of fire?
23:54:00 <andythenorth> I’ve seen both in game mechanics, but the fixed rate of fire is usually better
23:54:09 <Wolf01> Yes you can, I started with the idea that you can't fire again until the first projectile exploded
23:54:25 <andythenorth> that is good if you’re prioritising accuracy, but otherwise it sucks
23:54:40 <andythenorth> a lot of 80s games did it, probably because they could only animate one projectile at once
23:54:42 <Wolf01> But I can't put 3 things which behave differently on the same mechanism
23:54:55 <andythenorth> what are your projectiles?
23:55:42 <Wolf01> Power up based, you start with a normal whell, then you upgrade to AP, HE, HEAP with different powerups
23:55:57 <Wolf01> AP do more damage to tanks, HE to walls
23:56:00 <andythenorth> how much does realism matter?
23:56:08 <Wolf01> It doesn't matter at all :D
23:56:19 <andythenorth> if you have wire guided weapons, it’s one at once :P
23:56:37 <andythenorth> fire and forget weapons, that’s down to fire rate of the gun / loader
23:56:53 <Wolf01> I'm planning to add unarmed tanks (APCs?) for objective missions
23:57:14 <Wolf01> And other unarmed tanks which have a time bomb
23:57:26 <andythenorth> do you have a ‘current projectile type’ concept in the code?
23:57:42 <andythenorth> so just give each type a fixed fire rate?
23:57:47 <Wolf01> I can switch it for debug purpose
23:57:50 <andythenorth> firing is key / mouse?
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23:58:27 <andythenorth> projectile type defines rate, in seconds or game ticks, lock out firing for that period
23:58:57 <andythenorth> what happens if you switch projectile in that period? :P
23:59:04 <andythenorth> always an edge case to consider :)
23:59:05 <Wolf01> Restarts reload from 0
23:59:19 <andythenorth> so you can fire straight away if you switch?
23:59:33 <andythenorth> or the opposite?
23:59:34 <Wolf01> No, you need to wait the game ticks again
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