IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-09-30
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13:44:09 <Wolf01> Shit Trenitalia, on strike again
14:48:52 <sim-al2> Wait how much of Trenitalia?
14:58:09 <Wolf01> I expect them to file for bankruptcy soon or later, so smaller private companies could really take over
14:59:24 <sim-al2> I've heard that they've been fairly bad compared to the regional companies
15:00:43 <goodger> related: first great western still can't tell me whether they're running trains on the 27th of december
15:01:13 <goodger> is it just that they haven't worked it out for themselves yet, or is it part of some passive-aggressive plot to extract extra money from me?
15:01:28 <Wolf01> They are feeding a spiral where they provide a low quality service and less passengers use trains, so they will provide even lower quality service in response because they don't want to spend money
15:01:39 <sim-al2> As in, actively trying to dump freight traffic for various weird reason, as well as poor passenger service
15:01:56 <sim-al2> Supposedly the road lobby is very strong in Italy
15:03:00 <Wolf01> Also now they are planning to cut out yearly/monthly subscriptions on rapid trains, so you will be forced to purchase tickets every day
15:04:09 <Wolf01> They stated that "those subscriptions don't make enough revenue"
15:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that kind of spiral is very common in capitalism, unfortunately
15:05:20 <sim-al2> It's like they;re trying to recreate the 50's and 60's in the US
15:05:43 <Wolf01> I hope for overground metro... they are already building some new stations in my area, but the problem is still that we are using the old ERTMS system, which is like block signals of Transport Tycoon, and doesn't allow many trains on the lines
15:06:03 <sim-al2> Just keep cutting until it's basically impossible to actually use trains for normal journies
15:06:30 <Wolf01> They planned to switch to ERTMS level 3 in 10 years
15:08:28 <sim-al2> Is there actually a level 3 implementation yet?
15:09:21 <Wolf01> They started using it last year in Europe
15:10:05 <Wolf01> Seem that Sweden railways was experimenting it since 2012
15:10:35 <sim-al2> Moving block is one thing for metro trains with consistent and strong braking performace
15:10:52 <sim-al2> Freight trains can be a whole other beast entirely
15:14:28 <sim-al2> Oh, it looks like the Swedish implementations are for rural lines that perviously had little in the way of safety systems at all, and relies on different equipment
15:15:25 <sim-al2> It uses the ETCS 3 standards, but the usage is different, no moving blocks for example
15:22:53 <Wolf01> The UK one is really easier to understand
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15:42:34 <sim-al2> Italy's is a lot like some of the old US speed signaling, but it looks like they kept adding stuff (so not unlike the US either)
15:42:59 <sim-al2> The track code system is also based on American equipment
16:23:54 <Wolf01> Reboot.. I hope to be able to return
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16:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> ... famous last words :p
16:39:18 <Wolf01> The reboot is always a critical action with my system, shotdown and manual startup works, but startup after reboot always fail badly
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18:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that sounds like a hardware/driver problem, some device doesn't reset properly on "soft" reboot
18:15:32 <Wolf01> I can't anymore save and exit because the pc wouldn't boot up again if I don't remove the ram
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19:45:54 <Wolf01> V453000, nice new rails, are you layering them to resolve the sleepers over rail problem?
19:46:33 <V453000> yes, they work with 4 layers
19:46:41 <V453000> I will describe it in detail in about 2 weeks
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19:47:48 <Wolf01> TBH I didn't understood well the problem which will be fixed not having the prites flipped
19:48:02 <V453000> if you have them flipped they must look flat - top down view
19:48:10 <V453000> now they are rendered at 45 deg so you see their bottom parts
19:48:54 <NekoMaster> I wonder if someone can help me with my NML problem, another random problem >_>
19:48:59 <Wolf01> Old flat graphics will still be there, right?
19:49:14 <Wolf01> Because my tablet wouldn't handle the new graphics
19:49:30 <V453000> wait you are mixing it up
19:49:44 <V453000> factorio will always have normal resolution of sprites, and high resolution as an option
19:50:21 <Wolf01> I already have problems with smoke with that pc
19:50:31 <Wolf01> Had to deactivate it :P
19:51:00 <V453000> it will need a little more vram than previously since we don't flip it yes
19:51:03 <V453000> but it isn't that much
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19:52:07 <NekoMaster> is the master of cats
19:52:20 <NekoMaster> too bad i'm not a master of NML
19:53:41 <andythenorth> is / valid in comments?
19:53:49 * andythenorth wonders if it’s tripping up an escape
19:54:02 <drac_boy> just curious about this but .. I know ttdx was 1950 .. ttdxp was 1920 .. but how early does ottd let you start at again btw?
19:54:07 <andythenorth> nvm, I was looking at the wrong line
19:54:11 <andythenorth> drac_boy: guess?
19:54:54 <NekoMaster> NML Is complaning that "template" is an unexpected token and fails to compile >_>
19:55:04 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: where’s the actual code (rather than a screenshot of the code)
19:55:15 <andythenorth> paste it in the forums, or pastebin.com
19:55:17 <NekoMaster> its on my hard disk, in my dropbox
19:55:24 <NekoMaster> I could just link to the file directly
19:55:58 <NekoMaster> I believe in OpenTTD you can start as early as 1600
19:56:00 <andythenorth> drac_boy: you don’t have ottd installed where you ar?
19:56:19 <NekoMaster> my template.pnml file
19:56:58 <NekoMaster> This stuff worked the other day and now it doesnt work
19:56:58 <Alberth> oh, hi, I just replied
19:57:30 <Alberth> open the nml file, find the line in that file by searchiing for something unique like your comment in line 70
19:57:50 <Alberth> likely the construct before is messed up
19:58:05 <NekoMaster> Well its complaining that at Line 73 theres an unexpected token
19:58:15 <andythenorth> misssing } on L69
19:58:47 <andythenorth> no, you’re just not in the habit of knowing how to do this stuff
19:58:52 <andythenorth> nobody got born knowing
19:59:04 <NekoMaster> Well it is true that I'm still new to coding
19:59:17 <Alberth> yes, "template" can only belong to top-level definitions, and a missing } prevents you from reaching top -level :)
19:59:35 <Alberth> np, it happened to all of us
19:59:44 <Alberth> with various brackets :p
20:00:22 <NekoMaster> Now im having another problem >_>
20:00:35 * andythenorth gets told off by Jenkins many days for writing <div> instead of </div>
20:00:47 <andythenorth> which the browser will usually parse fine, but fails the validator
20:00:54 <NekoMaster> VehicleID.pnml, line 7 : Syntax error , unexpectedt token "item"
20:01:06 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: paste or link
20:01:28 <NekoMaster> [Knmlc ERROR: "src/vehicleID.pnml", line 7: Syntax error, unexpected token "item"
20:01:28 <NekoMaster> Included from: "NARS_ADDON_SET.pnml", line 13
20:01:28 <NekoMaster> make: *** [NARS_ADDON_SET.grf] Error 1
20:01:28 <NekoMaster> cp: cannot stat `D:\\USERS\\MATTHEW\\~DROPBOX~\\Dropbox\\~ OpenTTD Projects ~\\NARS_ADDON\\NARS_ADDON_SET.tar': No such file or directory
20:02:44 <andythenorth> have you got the compiled nml file?
20:02:54 <andythenorth> that one might be an error in preceeding include file
20:03:26 <NekoMaster> yeah theres the NARS_ADDON_SET.nml
20:03:39 <NekoMaster> I tried deleting it but that didn't change anything
20:04:15 <andythenorth> generate it again and paste it into the pastebin above
20:04:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you play on last night? o_O
20:05:50 <andythenorth> L256 another missing }
20:06:02 <andythenorth> should be on L257
20:06:10 <NekoMaster> how do I fix that?
20:06:17 <andythenorth> template_L6B is borked
20:06:47 <andythenorth> in templates.pnml
20:07:01 <andythenorth> there are two choices here
20:07:14 <andythenorth> oops, hit enter there :P
20:07:28 <andythenorth> 1. get a text editor that warns about missing brackets, many do
20:07:38 <andythenorth> 2. and/or write code like this
20:07:53 <andythenorth> item(stuff) {more stuff}
20:08:00 <NekoMaster> Im using notepad++
20:08:09 <NekoMaster> i like that its simple and easy to use
20:08:28 <andythenorth> same issue comes up with things like “”
20:08:45 <andythenorth> so lots of people do the brackets, quotes etc, then put the content in
20:08:52 <NekoMaster> yay my code compiled!
20:08:58 <NekoMaster> now I can get back to adding more locomotives
20:09:09 <NekoMaster> i just did up the sprite sheets for some GE locomotives
20:09:20 <NekoMaster> Including my horribly modified GE P32-8BWH
20:09:40 <NekoMaster> but im glad its working now :)
20:09:43 <NekoMaster> thanks for your help Andy
20:09:58 <andythenorth> most of my compile failures are just syntax errors like that
20:10:28 <NekoMaster> Hmm, btw how would one add in proper flipping sprites?
20:10:39 <NekoMaster> that way small locomotives dont look derp
20:10:43 <andythenorth> there’s a feature for it
20:10:50 <andythenorth> or something else?
20:10:57 <NekoMaster> Yeah, I have flipping enabled on my locomotives
20:11:04 <NekoMaster> considering this is all american stuff
20:11:43 <Wolf01> <V453000> it will need a little more vram than previously since we don't flip it yes <- eh, that it would kill my pc, I don't have enough vram
20:12:13 <V453000> well you can always reduce the graphics options further :P
20:12:13 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you play on last night? o_O <- yup, an hour or 2
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20:13:18 <Wolf01> V, I already have the min possible graphics options with current version :P
20:16:16 <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you keep a save locally? o_O
20:16:20 <andythenorth> I have a save from when I left
20:16:49 <Wolf01> Also my router disconnected again
20:17:55 <Wolf01> Btw, I think we could restart from there, as when I disconnected we only had 10 years left and just one factory
20:19:05 <andythenorth> I need to get my kids in bed and sort out dinner
20:19:11 <andythenorth> but I might play again tonight
20:19:18 <andythenorth> depends if anyone else joins :)
20:19:24 <andythenorth> we need about 5 people to win SV
20:19:34 <Wolf01> I don't know if I can, multiple updates running in my network
20:19:41 <andythenorth> tomorrow might be better?
20:20:42 <NekoMaster> Perhaps I should disable flipping on short locomotives until I can fix the gap issue with small locmotives
20:26:12 <andythenorth> what problem are you having?
20:28:56 <V453000> Wolf01: minimal or normal? :D
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20:33:07 <andythenorth> mystery of flipping will never be know
20:34:32 <Wolf01> andythenorth, do you have running restrictions too, like "train must have brake wagon"?
20:35:30 <Wolf01> V453000, minimal, I have an Intel integrated gpu
20:35:48 <Wolf01> It doesn't even show HD movie
20:41:52 <andythenorth> Wolf01: not in Iron Horse
20:41:56 <andythenorth> brake wagon is eye candy
20:44:49 <Wolf01> I found a strange thing with Pikka's UK train set, I can't run trains without the caboose and my friend which plays in coop can, if I send the train to a depot I can't run it again :P
20:48:42 <andythenorth> either he’s not set the length correctly, or he’s got the sprites on a sub-optimal bounding box, and is relying on offsets to move them back where they should be
20:49:30 <andythenorth> or he’s not handling depot view correctly
20:50:17 <andythenorth> eh, so the RH trams work then?
20:50:45 <andythenorth> based on the use in the MP games
20:54:18 <Alberth> I only used a few types, but they seemed nice
20:54:37 <Alberth> perhaps the game was a bit late for RH?
20:55:06 <Alberth> we had a lot of tramz iirc
20:55:19 <Alberth> or is that all the different cargoes?
20:55:33 <peter1138> Date: Sat Apr 11 18:46:01 2015 +0000
20:55:39 <peter1138> my checkout is a bit old...
20:58:04 <Alberth> don't think much happened
20:58:16 <andythenorth> and a few bug fixes
20:58:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: probably 3 or 4 of each type of tram in a game that late
20:58:54 <andythenorth> ‘pick the newest'
20:59:18 <Alberth> I went for fastest or largest or so :)
20:59:29 <peter1138> Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 289 commits, and can be fast-forwarded.
20:59:35 <peter1138> Yeah, 289 in over a year...
21:00:24 <V453000> Wolf01: I will suggest a graphics mode which only uses 8 pixel colours instead of all atlases
21:00:49 <Alberth> 2. just black and white :)
21:01:18 * andythenorth considers a new ‘night mode’ base set
21:01:43 <Alberth> the current one is mostly unusable iirc
21:02:11 <Alberth> it's so dark, you can't even see what you're doing
21:03:03 <andythenorth> my kids play a dragon game that updates now and then with a new theme
21:03:11 <andythenorth> it’s just gone ‘night mode’ for autumn
21:03:21 <andythenorth> but it’s not that dark
21:03:37 <Alberth> hmm, they skipped toyland ground sprites :)
21:05:10 <Alberth> oh, might be opengfx+landscape instead
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21:10:01 <Wolf01> V453000, dows texture compression changes a lot? Should I enable or disable that?
21:10:31 <Wolf01> I take 4 minutes to launch the game
21:10:47 <Wolf01> No time to check every option
21:12:11 <Wolf01> But I found that the sprite resolution does not change the speed it run
21:12:42 <Wolf01> So I can have it set to normal
21:16:06 <Wolf01> I'm using the stable version there, maybe I should try with 0.14
21:23:07 <Wolf01> Nice... 0.14.12 looks really corrupt
21:24:49 <V453000> might want to consider upgrading your hardware tbh
21:25:04 <V453000> the requirements will likely not decrease when it comes to VRAM
21:25:09 <V453000> we don't even have all entities done yet
21:25:20 <Wolf01> Can't... it's an all-in-one pc
21:30:37 <V453000> sorry but what does all in one pc mean?
21:32:47 <V453000> well you can always throw it away and buy a replacement :P
21:33:08 <Alberth> the former yes, the latter may be a problem :p
21:33:21 <Wolf01> If you give me a job I could try to buy a surface 4 pro
21:33:48 <Wolf01> Btw, 0.14.12 is borked
21:34:51 <andythenorth> factorio hiring? o_O
21:34:56 * andythenorth could apply for a job
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21:36:46 <Wolf01> With 0.14.11, normal textures, everything else disabled it's running at 29-34 FPS
21:38:39 <V453000> andythenorth: sure do :) it's great
21:40:48 <andythenorth> or /me could start a games company
21:41:15 <Wolf01> Nice, will you start hiring?
21:41:26 <andythenorth> would need an idea, and some money :P
21:41:31 <andythenorth> best way to get money is to sell the gam
21:48:55 <Wolf01> I'm working at 2 games, 3 if I count OTTD, but that's not mine :P
21:49:21 <Wolf01> The first one is the third time I'm rewriting it from scratch
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22:44:19 <glx> getting required files :)
22:45:03 <glx> but if you have msvc it's easy to do it yourself
22:47:12 <glx> of course you also need the source files
22:53:53 <Samu> i dont have a way to do that on this system
22:54:51 <glx> anyway it's a very old cpu ;)
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23:04:12 <glx> getting the stmbols is slower than it used to be
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23:05:27 <glx> maybe because most of the files are not in my local cache
23:17:39 <Samu> does that mean, cpu is too old for instruction?
23:18:31 <glx> but something really weird happened
23:19:01 <glx> when executing if (!v->Tick()) {
23:19:45 <glx> maybe the pointer was broken before the call, but that should not happen
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23:22:14 <Samu> trrying to decipher what they say
23:23:30 <glx> the only thing I can imagine is something wrong happened to vehicle pool but I don't see how it's possible
23:30:55 <Samu> what's a "garbage code"?
23:31:08 <Samu> and why is it called garbage-...
23:31:30 <Samu> Ais run garbage code, right?
23:42:04 <glx> anyway I think it may also be a RAM chip failure
23:48:47 <Samu> hmm never really had memory issues with this system
23:52:08 <Samu> it uses a AGP video card, it uses aperture memory and the agp driver ain't that great
23:53:21 <Samu> usually when this system crashes, it's a BSOD crash, brings down windows with it
23:57:11 <Samu> RAM isn't the problem, maybe drivers are, as this video card belongs to that time when ATI drivers blew major time
23:57:36 <Samu> i have no solution for it
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