IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-10-01
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00:15:35 <lambwich> does anyone know if it's possible to apply patches on osx 10.9? i've been trying but encountering some issues, i think it might be my machine.
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01:00:17 <Samu> glx, about the privileged instruction "A "privileged instruction" is a CPU instruction that is only allowed to execute when the processor is in KERNEL (and/or maybe Executive, Supervisor) Mode."
01:02:18 <Samu> was there a I/O in here? if (!v->Tick()) {
01:05:55 <Samu> trying to read a hardware register with an I/O instruction. hmm :(
01:06:07 <Samu> i dunno, seems like it's AGP aperture memory
01:07:45 <Samu> windows indicate 0 MB reserved for hardware
01:08:17 <Samu> but i know the bios has set 64 MB of AGP aperture memory. I just have no idea how windows 7 does this agp mem management
01:08:44 <Samu> apparently, not that good.
01:11:00 <Samu> well, thx anyway for the help
01:15:38 <Samu> i also read stuff about bad compiler optimization flags or whatever.
01:27:22 <Samu> 0xc000001d - application failed to initialize properly
01:30:26 <Samu> that build gives me the 0xc000001d - application failed to initialize properly error. google search tells me "certain AMD cpus do not have the required SSE blabla", I find this in most of tech support forums for other programs
01:31:12 <Samu> openttd_vs140.vcxproj must be using SSE2 instructions
01:31:45 <Samu> do youknow what's the cause glx?
01:32:30 <Samu> you're the windows expert :o
01:32:47 <Samu> or visual studio perhaps?
01:32:52 <glx> the cause is probably some memory corruption and not related to openttd
01:33:16 <Samu> oh, i'm on another matter
01:33:38 <Samu> i posted a build on the forum, to bring to this computer, and i can't execute it
01:34:12 <Samu> everything points out to SSE2 instructions being required to execute it on this system, which this cpu doesn't support
01:34:54 <Samu> what's different from the build that are created on openttd.org and the ones created with visual studio?
01:36:36 <Samu> is there a way to create non-SSE2 builds with visual studio?
01:45:45 <glx> compile farm uses VS2010, and SSE2 is default since VS2012
01:51:41 <Samu> ah, thank you very much, that's what I missed
01:52:45 <Samu> also the reason openttd.org 1.6.1 still runs here
01:58:47 <Samu> i'm copy pasting this into the topic
02:06:42 <Fujk> anyone know how to use Modular Locomotive sheds? I can't find anything placeable in game
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09:23:15 <Alberth> it seems a bit strange to me, trams transporting freight, I am so used to trams for pax only :)
09:24:57 <andythenorth> it’s hardly common :)
09:28:28 <Alberth> trams are cheaper to run than regular trains, I guess
09:31:59 <andythenorth> they don’t need signals and so on
09:32:07 <andythenorth> so cheaper total cost of operation
09:33:31 <andythenorth> in America the street railways were sometimes the connection between railroad and factory
09:33:49 <andythenorth> normal wagons, hauled by tram engines for some last miles
09:34:56 * andythenorth train nerd today
09:36:27 * andythenorth -> kids football
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10:27:06 <Flygon> Alberth: Visit Melbourne, pre-80s :)
10:27:17 <Flygon> We use to have freight trams dedicated to transporting canines
10:27:36 <Flygon> Though, rather than Tram loading gauge locomotives
10:27:49 <Flygon> We ran single unit cars
10:29:48 <Alberth> /me steps in the time-travel machine
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10:36:51 <Rubidium> Alberth: you could go for a weekend to Melbourne; leave Friday around 21:30, return monday around 06:30. Then you got from 07:00 till 13:00 on Sunday in Melbourne ;)
10:38:30 <Alberth> not exactly pre-80s, unless Flygon means 2080 :)
10:38:54 <Rubidium> They must have a museum with pre-80s vehicles
10:38:55 <Flygon> We basically stopped running Freight Trams by the early 90s
10:42:12 <Rubidium> but for the ultimate weekend trip... go to Auckland. You need to leave on Friday at 17:30 and arrive on Monday around 10:00... but you will have travelled quite a large number of longitudes and latitudes
10:42:40 <Rubidium> (probably the most you can manage in one weekend when departing from Amsterdam)
10:46:37 <Rubidium> Amsterdam -> China (4h transfer) -> Auckland (13h) -> San Francisco (3.5h transfer) -> Amsterdam
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11:14:50 <andythenorth> Wolf01: cogwheel NRT
11:15:04 <andythenorth> goes up hills with no slow down
11:17:27 <Wolf01> Let's do some NRT today
11:24:12 * andythenorth sees if that summons frosch
11:32:42 <V453000> whaaaaat doooo yooooouuuuuuuu reequuuuuuuuuuuireeee moortallll
11:32:47 <Wolf01> Committed a quick edit
11:34:22 <andythenorth> Wolf01: frosch might have a better suggestion, but I’d suggest we try to get a ‘normal’ road, where we can change the graphics, and vehicles can still drive on it
11:35:10 <Wolf01> Yes, I'm doing the structural part now, to prepare a base for loading the grf
11:35:40 <Wolf01> At the moment it just avoid to throw an error when loading it
11:35:44 <andythenorth> adding more types, and extended features (catenary etc) can come later :)
11:38:30 <Wolf01> Committed the biggest part, that spaghetti code which is "road types" with newgrf spec too
11:39:21 <andythenorth> I might merge that to my repo
11:41:33 * andythenorth exploring github
11:42:10 <Wolf01> Now... InitRoadTypes()
11:42:13 <andythenorth> pull requests are new to andythenorth
11:42:24 <andythenorth> usually merge branches in same repo :)
11:42:43 <Wolf01> I don't even know git, so I'm no help
11:43:29 <andythenorth> it’s just a matter of choosing right base and fork, but the direction is not obvious :P
11:45:45 <Wolf01> Ok, loading original roadtypes does not crash
11:48:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: is your gui branch merged into your dev branch?
11:48:58 <andythenorth> looks like it is
11:49:06 <Wolf01> No, there are some "in development" things related to gui
11:50:05 <Wolf01> For example, dev does not have separation between road and tram
11:50:32 <andythenorth> I was reading github wrong
11:50:35 <Wolf01> I should merge everything in trunk
11:50:46 <andythenorth> that’s why I can’t merge your dev to mine cleanly :)
11:56:53 <peter1138> i had a patch for roadtypes once
12:00:36 <andythenorth> didn’t you have 90% of it, then got stuck on a decision about something?
12:06:48 <Wolf01> Strange thing, really strange... _sorted_roadtypes -> 2, _sorted_roadtypes_size -> 0
12:07:32 <Wolf01> And it must increment that counter when it sorts the roadtypes
12:08:49 <Wolf01> Ok, it didn't load the label
12:12:57 <andythenorth> is the label there?
12:13:12 <Wolf01> The original RoadTypes should be there
12:13:23 <andythenorth> nml tests complain that some of the roadtable functions aren’t reached
12:13:29 <andythenorth> which I couldn’t figure out
12:13:33 <Wolf01> *should* mean that I missed something
12:15:47 <Wolf01> ResetRoadTypes() should copy from the original roadtypes table, which has the labels
12:17:47 <Wolf01> The worse thing is that I didn't ever call ResetRoadTypes() -.-'''
12:19:18 <Wolf01> \o/ victory, rebuilt the dropdown with the roadtypes definitions
12:21:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: are you familiar with nml compiler at all?
12:21:49 <Alberth> I refactored it to python3
12:22:05 <Alberth> so I have seen everything, but no idea about global structure :p
12:22:28 <Alberth> in particular too many actionXYZ that have absolutely no meaning to me
12:23:09 <Alberth> I should probably write a few newgrf extensions to get the idea
12:23:45 <andythenorth> I have added parser functions for roadtypes, cargo-culting the railtypes equivalents
12:23:48 <andythenorth> but they’re not reached
12:24:03 <andythenorth> I can’t find anything where the railtypes versions are called, so either I’m wrong, or there’s some magic
12:24:35 <andythenorth> parser.py is the file
12:25:06 <andythenorth> the roadtypes example grf does compile ok
12:25:59 <andythenorth> apologies for git :P
12:26:04 <andythenorth> there is no hg-hub
12:26:15 <Alberth> ah, I use it elsewhere too
12:26:33 <Alberth> it doesn't go well together with hg though, you get confused a lot
12:30:15 <Wolf01> I think we will need to split the vehicle pool, or at least filter it in future, having RVs and trams with multiple types will be a mess
12:30:50 <andythenorth> are helicopters and ‘normal’ planes split?
12:31:54 <Wolf01> Filtering is preferred
12:31:59 <Alberth> railtype gets added at line 90
12:33:11 <Alberth> no, regular production rules
12:33:40 <andythenorth> interesting structures
12:33:52 <Alberth> the p_* functions are parser functions, and the doc string is the production rule
12:34:26 <Alberth> "main_block" is one of the long list alternatives
12:34:35 <andythenorth> no comp sci degree for andythenorth :P
12:35:04 <andythenorth> otoh, I did study chomsky a bit
12:35:16 <Alberth> oh, you're an expert :p
12:35:56 <Alberth> the scanner processes the text of the input file, and splits it into tokens
12:36:27 <Alberth> ie the token stuff in tokens.py
12:36:56 <Alberth> a token is called a terminal
12:37:04 <andythenorth> I did one course in philosophy of language, chomsky was 1 lecture :P
12:37:20 <Alberth> the parser builds a tree from terminals
12:37:47 <Alberth> where each level in the tree is a non-terminal, an intermediate node with a name like "main_block"
12:38:10 <Alberth> the production rules are descriptions of the sub-trees
12:39:14 <Alberth> this way the computer finds the same hierarchical structure you believe to exist in eg nml code
12:40:17 <Alberth> I graduated in compiler construction :p
12:40:55 <Alberth> expressions are easiest to understand probably
12:41:13 <Alberth> and there are plenty of toy calculator examples :p
12:41:32 <Alberth> eg at the PLY home page
12:41:46 <Alberth> in the documentation, used to explain how PLY works
12:42:32 <andythenorth> fundamentally, it’s substituting one set of known symbols for another?
12:42:43 <andythenorth> and there’s syntax validation
12:44:04 <Alberth> at the bottom level, the parser takes all production rules with only terminals, and matches one of them onto the first N terminals
12:44:42 <Alberth> with that match, it has created 1 level of the tree. It replaces the sequence of terminals with the matched non-terminal
12:45:12 <Alberth> then the game starts again, but now you get addition production rules that could match on the first non-terminal
12:45:18 <andythenorth> is this top-down parsing?
12:45:44 <Alberth> not necessarily, it depends on how smart the rule matcher is
12:46:17 <Wolf01> \o/ loaded and allocated the first NRT from grf
12:46:30 <Alberth> a stupid rule matcher is indeed top-down, where you always take the first terminal, and then decide which way to go
12:46:36 <Wolf01> No props at the moment, just the label
12:47:31 <Alberth> a smarter rule matcher can skip some stuff, and do eg bottom up parsing, with an algorithm like LALR(1)
12:47:57 <Alberth> a parse tree is literally the tree that I described
12:48:48 <Alberth> an abstract syntax tree is a reduced version of that, eg [ 1, 2, 3 ] becomes a list of 3 numbers, you don't need the [ ] , and while space
12:49:22 <Alberth> which is commonly know as AST
12:49:36 * andythenorth now understands something more about grfcodec
12:49:56 <Alberth> the p_* functions do the parse tree -> AST conversion
12:50:21 <Alberth> you can see them picking the terminals and non-terminals with interesting information only
12:50:47 <andythenorth> and once we have the tree, outputting to some other format is relatively trivial?
12:50:51 <andythenorth> it’s just printing :P
12:51:05 <Alberth> template stuff, just like you do
12:51:33 <Alberth> usually though, there is a check step, and perhaps a conversion step in-between
12:51:45 <Alberth> check step is usually the most effort
12:51:50 <Wolf01> Oh, now I understand what are braces used for in cases...
12:52:22 <andythenorth> turns out I wrote parsers, years ago, by accident, with no theory
12:52:47 <Alberth> haha, I invented them too :)
12:53:20 <andythenorth> mine would have been string splits, then scanning
12:53:46 <andythenorth> but then we got xml support in flash, and everything was ok
12:54:02 <Alberth> simplest is top-down parsing, where you go from left to right
12:54:22 <Alberth> trouble is that sometimes your language is more complicated than what top-down can handle
12:54:33 <Alberth> and there you start making hacks :p
12:54:50 <andythenorth> hacks never scale
12:55:25 <Alberth> non-hacky php is 0 size? :p
12:55:36 <andythenorth> the PHP inventor is quite interesting, he’s approximately about my standard at actual programming :P
12:55:51 <andythenorth> and doesn’t care
12:57:07 <Alberth> improving at programming does take time and effort, so maybe he has other priorities
12:57:27 <Alberth> what scares me more is that a zillion people use the language even today
12:57:37 <andythenorth> nah, actually he’s a proper programmer, I am being rude :)
12:58:35 <Wolf01> Btw andy, would it be possible to have a newgrf with something more useful than speed limit and acceleration model props?
12:58:47 <Alberth> tbh I wouldn't be surprised if someone could pull that off, the php language isn't very well designed
12:58:50 <Wolf01> Maybe an alternate build menu name
12:59:00 <Wolf01> Just to see if it works
12:59:44 <Alberth> but a proper design is not the primary problem of most people, clearly :p
12:59:53 <andythenorth> Wolf01: in the NRT, right? Not vehicles? (just checking)
13:00:54 <andythenorth> Wolf01: do you have a way to build and run nmlc?
13:01:06 <andythenorth> otherwise you are dependent on me uploading a grf somewhere :P
13:01:16 <andythenorth> ‘nml-as-a-web-service’ is needed
13:01:33 <Wolf01> Lets start doing something with PHP
13:02:07 <andythenorth> Wolf01: give me 5-10 mins, I’ll figure out what’s needed
13:02:18 <andythenorth> I never wrote a railtype grf, and I am copying from there, so need to read spec
13:04:25 <Wolf01> One between 0x09 and 0x0B should be enough to show a change
13:05:39 <Wolf01> At least if it tries to change one of the base road types
13:06:11 <Wolf01> Because if it adds a new one, I'm not seeing it
13:09:18 <andythenorth> I haven’t decompiled that with grfcodec to check the properties are set
13:09:22 <andythenorth> but it compiles ok
13:09:30 <andythenorth> should set the name
13:13:04 <andythenorth> someone should make tramz
13:15:27 <Wolf01> Ok, it loads but no change
13:16:23 <Wolf01> Because it says that it what is loaded
13:18:25 <Wolf01> I don't think I have a way to check that at the moment
13:21:08 <Wolf01> case 0x1B: // Name of roadtype (overridden by prop 09 for grf ver < 8) <- also
13:25:22 <Wolf01> I committed the current work, I'll try to merge all the branches in trunk now, so you could be able to pull
13:39:26 <Wolf01> I'll retry in some hours, github doesn't love me
13:39:58 <Wolf01> If you want to try with grfs just clone locally my dev branch
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14:20:20 <andythenorth> Wolf01: back - was afk :)
14:23:03 <Wolf01> But I load all the props, so if you want to give a try with different grf stuff you can use my dev branch
14:25:29 <andythenorth> ok I’ll get a clone shortly
14:25:37 <andythenorth> and make a stronger example grf
14:26:21 <Wolf01> Currently I think only menu/toolbar strings are handled
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14:29:17 <andythenorth> Wolf01: we could raise the game, and another type :P
14:34:39 * Wolf01 looks to eat something
14:45:34 <andythenorth> we should make some frog vehicles and a frog road
14:52:48 <frosch123> yay, another fff about f taking over bugs from ottd :p
14:54:46 <andythenorth> especially the geometry stuff for trains
14:55:21 <frosch123> as it is distorted in various directions :)
14:55:24 <NGC3982> I'm really starting to love Factorio.
15:02:08 <V453000> frosch123: that's the least of an issue XD
15:05:12 <V453000> the worst thing in factorio is probably the way how the rail metal part collides in junctions
15:05:23 <V453000> in openttd it is similar, maybe even worse
15:05:30 <V453000> in factorio it can at least be helped by separating it into layers
15:05:34 <V453000> in openttd you are fucked
15:05:52 <V453000> still doesn't look like real tracks with holes for "the other direction" but hm
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15:08:26 <Alberth> openttd was designed at 32 pixels
15:09:27 <V453000> the system is what matters, not resolution though :P
15:09:36 <V453000> the high resolution / rendered stuff makes shit apparent
15:11:31 <Wolf01> Good, I'm less hungry now
15:11:37 <NGC3982> What i don't like is Steam being confused on how to take screenshots of it.
15:12:50 <V453000> never took screenshots through steam
15:21:25 <andythenorth> Wolf01: what next?
15:22:02 <Wolf01> Trying to make it set the catenary bit
15:22:21 <Wolf01> Powered vs unpowered light rail
15:23:17 <andythenorth> you want the test grf to set that also?
15:23:20 <andythenorth> or to have two types?
15:23:46 <NGC3982> V453000: It's normally easy to add non-Steam games to Steam. For me, it's usefull for screenshots.
15:23:59 <Wolf01> Also 2 types would be cool, but for now let's modify the base type
15:24:18 <Wolf01> I don't know if the game could handle a new type as is
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15:44:51 <Wolf01> Merge don't work with git, stuck at getting revision range
15:45:14 <Wolf01> I'll try to do that manually
15:45:32 <V453000> we use merge with git
15:45:53 <Wolf01> I'm not able to use git, so I'm using svn over git
15:45:57 <andythenorth> Wolf01: you merging the branches?
15:47:07 <andythenorth> I’ll clone your repo
15:47:10 <andythenorth> give me a couple of mins
15:47:21 <andythenorth> or you can merge through the github UI, but meh to that
15:49:00 <Wolf01> I tried with that, but I want more control
15:49:23 <andythenorth> I’ll probably break stuff, but it’s git, it will be fine :P
15:49:41 <Wolf01> Or we could just merge in yours
15:50:11 <Wolf01> But some things need to be changed as the 2 branches aren't compatible
15:50:19 <andythenorth> I don’t know how to merge from remote fork using git in shell
15:50:25 <andythenorth> cba to learn today
15:50:42 <andythenorth> just waiting for download of your repo
15:53:34 <Wolf01> Ok, with manual range it works
15:54:22 <andythenorth> what are the .vcxproj files?
15:54:51 <Wolf01> Rebuilt projects for visual studio
15:56:10 <andythenorth> 100% conflicts for all of those :)
15:56:22 <andythenorth> I will ignore them as I don’t know what to do with them
15:56:40 <andythenorth> so road_gui.cpp looks like it needs manual merge? Functions are different
15:57:15 <andythenorth> and road_gui.h is just a one line declaration needs changed / decided which to take
15:57:44 <Wolf01> The commit is failing :E
15:57:59 <Wolf01> It says I have to update first... I already done that
15:58:11 <Wolf01> Also that "File COPY operations are only supported in the same branch"
15:58:35 <andythenorth> I just did a straight branch merge dev <- gui
15:58:51 <andythenorth> git co dev, git merge gui
15:59:01 <andythenorth> then resolve the conflicts
16:00:18 <Wolf01> Oh... it seem that the commit is trying to copy an added file from the other branch
16:00:29 <Wolf01> Which isn't updated o_O
16:01:43 <Wolf01> I bet github is doing chinese tortures with the svn clone
16:02:29 <Wolf01> I can't even update the dev branch
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16:19:00 <Wolf01> I should try to define a good function for the tram widget, if no tram is loaded it should gray out and not assert on dropdown length
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16:24:56 <andythenorth> railtypes has similar for if there are no valid vehicles yet
16:25:08 <andythenorth> you have to scan the vehicle pool or something
16:25:20 <Wolf01> this->SetWidgetDisabledState(WID_TN_LTRAILS, !CanBuildVehicleInfrastructure(VEH_TRAM)); <- no effect, road and ltrail have the same key :(
16:25:58 <Wolf01> It must check for the e->info.misc_flags
16:26:28 <Wolf01> FOR_ALL_ENGINES_OF_TYPE(e, VEH_ROAD) { if (!HasBit(e->info.misc_flags, EF_ROAD_TRAM)) continue; }
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16:31:41 <Wolf01> What if I split VEH_ROAD and VEH_TRAM?
16:33:35 <andythenorth> I wondered about that
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16:33:58 <andythenorth> dunno if it’s necessary though
16:34:16 <Wolf01> It would allow me to perform an additional check
16:40:31 <Wolf01> I think we could just use the classic gui for now, as the split needs more work to be bug-free
16:43:09 <andythenorth> keep the branches separate?
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16:43:39 <Wolf01> One is just for gui tampering, not newgrf and stuff
16:47:36 <Wolf01> Ok, don't ever consider to split VEH_ROAD and VEH_TRAM
16:50:48 <Wolf01> The problem is that trams seem to have been added in a hurry, or just to not copy/put conditions everywhere in the whole road handling
16:51:34 <Wolf01> Btw, I'll continue with catenary
17:03:50 <Wolf01> return HasBit(GetRoadTypeInfo(roadtype)->powered_roadtypes, RoadTypeToRoadTypes(roadtype)); ????
17:08:29 <andythenorth> trams added in a hurry <- that was the sense I got from reading tram code
17:08:42 <andythenorth> it’s very “just make it work” afaict :)
17:09:36 <Wolf01> I think I couldn't use powered roadtypes, or maybe I set those in the wrong way
17:09:59 <Wolf01> There should alway be catenary, also on roads with the current setting
17:15:17 <Wolf01> For rails, the catenary is a flag
17:18:32 <Wolf01> Ok, added catenary to tram
17:19:11 <Wolf01> Now I need a grf wich disables catenary, or I could disable it again and a grf could enable it
17:20:38 * Wolf01 goes to play with water
17:23:24 <Wolf01> andythenorth, committed if you vant to give it a try
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18:02:03 <andythenorth> hmm, need to extend nmlc some more
18:19:06 <Wolf01> Did you succeed on enabling catenary?
18:49:55 <andythenorth> will come back to it later though - just needs some functions added
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19:48:03 <andythenorth> needs moved to the nightly server
19:48:11 <andythenorth> I am cooking right now though :P
19:49:37 <supermop> i might get some pho
19:57:56 <andythenorth> does NRT get the ability to forbid level crossings as a newgrf property? Same as railtypes?
19:58:02 <andythenorth> might be a case for that?
20:01:36 <andythenorth> doesn’t show catenary in my build of ottd though
20:05:07 <andythenorth> nor is console printing that prop 0x10 bit 7 is set
20:05:12 <andythenorth> prints some other stuff ;)
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20:20:14 <NekoMaster> Well if its not one thing its another when I try to get things done myself... Its like the universe doesn't want me to mod OpenTTD
20:21:04 <andythenorth> this is programming
20:21:09 <andythenorth> it’s how it goes ;)
20:21:19 <NekoMaster> This time its not programing issues >_>
20:21:54 <NekoMaster> Now GIMP doesnt want to let me do anything, so I can't make new sprites or set up sprite sheets
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20:25:51 <NekoMaster> GIMP wont let me cut, paste, delete, or draw... and everything was working fine last night when I made a new sprite
20:26:51 <andythenorth> can’t help with gimp
20:27:05 <NekoMaster> I dunno any other image editor that has pallet support
20:27:11 <andythenorth> what happens if you open a completely new document?
20:27:19 <NekoMaster> Still the same thing
20:27:32 <andythenorth> if you were asking about photoshop, I would say you’d toggled a specific mode
20:27:35 <NekoMaster> Make a new image in GIMP, be it RGB or Indexed
20:27:43 <NekoMaster> I can't afford photoshop
20:27:43 <andythenorth> there are various modes in photoshop that have that behaviour
20:27:57 <andythenorth> my point is that gimp is a photoshop clone
20:28:02 <andythenorth> it might have a similar behaviour
20:28:15 <andythenorth> but usually they apply to each document, not the whole app
20:28:18 <NekoMaster> Though I don't remember doing anything special last night when I finished up
20:28:29 <andythenorth> usually triggered by pressing a key, like ‘q’ for quick mask or so
20:28:30 <NekoMaster> Also I dunno how to clear out all of gimps settings
20:30:38 <NekoMaster> ok well i just had to go into the preferances and reset the tool settings to defaults
20:30:43 <NekoMaster> and now I can cut and paste and edit
20:30:52 <andythenorth> you toggled some tool mode by accident
20:31:21 <NekoMaster> I wouldn't know either
20:31:32 <NekoMaster> then again my left hand has a tendancy to click/hit things randomly
20:31:37 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: the flipping thing
20:31:48 <andythenorth> how long are your sprites (in 8/8 units)?
20:31:50 <NekoMaster> Anyways I think I have it back to normal now
20:32:03 <NekoMaster> My sprites vary from 6/8 to 9/8 at hte moment
20:32:23 <andythenorth> and have you set the length appropriately in the vehicle props?
20:32:24 <NekoMaster> In other news, I dunno how to get a 9/8 sprite to work properly without clipping into things in front
20:32:34 <NekoMaster> NML will only let me set a max length of 8
20:32:45 <andythenorth> 8/8 is the maximum length
20:32:53 <NekoMaster> How is longer trains done?
20:32:56 <andythenorth> you have to break the vehicle into parts, like Iron Horse and CETS do it
20:33:03 <andythenorth> which has some…side effects
20:33:11 <NekoMaster> But NARS has some longer stuff thats not broken up
20:33:42 <andythenorth> must be multi-unit
20:33:45 <NekoMaster> I was thining that perhaps an invisable part could be added
20:33:53 <NekoMaster> but I dunno how to make an articulated vehicle yet
20:33:56 <andythenorth> yes, that’s how Iron Horse and CETs do it
20:34:05 <andythenorth> when I say ‘broken’ up, I don’t mean the sprites ;)
20:34:27 <andythenorth> so a 9/8 vehicle might be 2/8 + 5/8 + 2/8
20:34:33 <NekoMaster> I was thinking that my 9/8 Turbine sprite would have a 9/8 Sprite which will over hang (but code it as 8/8, and have a 1/8 invisable part in the end to space it out)
20:34:46 <andythenorth> if you add 1/8 you’ll have a nightmare with offsets
20:34:58 <andythenorth> you are better with 3 vehicles
20:35:08 <andythenorth> ask Eddi|zuHause for advice ;)
20:35:13 <NekoMaster> Then again, does making Articulated vehicles apply to Steam engines as well?
20:35:21 <NekoMaster> because I plan to add steamers eventually with tenders
20:35:28 <andythenorth> articulated is not hard
20:35:36 <frosch123> andythenorth: sure, but hardly important for a start :)
20:36:45 <NekoMaster> I imagine the articulated code can go into the same NML file with your vehicles?
20:36:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am at the point of the nml properties
20:36:49 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: iron-horse.nml
20:37:06 <NekoMaster> I like keeping my vehicle NML stuff in one file for each engine
20:37:27 <andythenorth> but for a steam engine with tender, your engine is at least 2 vehicles
20:37:36 <andythenorth> or more if you have a long one, or something weird like a garratt
20:37:57 <andythenorth> you can do the articulated sub-vehicles all in one file
20:38:00 <NekoMaster> The weirdest I'll have is a Mallet type AC6 Cab-Forward
20:38:26 <andythenorth> I don’t know if Iron Horse code is useful, but eh
20:38:29 <NekoMaster> Only problem is that I've only gotten this far after someone gave me some NML to work with
20:38:34 <andythenorth> quite impressed you’ve got this far, you should keep going
20:38:46 <andythenorth> many people don’t get this far
20:38:50 <NekoMaster> Sylf basically started the code for me, and I've just been recycling
20:39:13 <NekoMaster> If it wasn't for sylf I wouldn't have gotten this far
20:39:37 <andythenorth> you will learn skills from this, even if coding isn’t your thing
20:39:54 <NekoMaster> once I understand things I don't mind coding
20:40:04 <NekoMaster> my major issue is that its so hard to understand anything
20:40:54 <andythenorth> do you want to figure out the flipping thing, or is your focus on something else right now?
20:41:19 <NekoMaster> Well it would be nice to figure out how to make my Westing House Bluegoose 9/8 sprite work properly
20:41:30 <NekoMaster> I'm not too worried about flipping for now
20:42:03 <andythenorth> learn how to make an articulated vehicle in that case?
20:42:10 <NekoMaster> that would be helpful
20:42:24 <NekoMaster> I'll need the knowledge for bigger things as well
20:42:34 <NekoMaster> Like the EP4 Little Joe and Great northern W1
20:42:38 <NekoMaster> both are bigger then 8/8
20:42:42 <andythenorth> L190 in iron-horse.nml shows you a switch that handles the articulated callback
20:43:09 <andythenorth> and L423 shows you where the callback is added to the graphics block
20:43:22 <andythenorth> the formatting in the file is horrible, that code is all generated, not written by hand
20:43:23 <NekoMaster> I opened up ironhorse.nml and I can't find l190
20:43:59 <andythenorth> does notepad tell you the line number you’re on?
20:44:02 <NekoMaster> yeah I searched up L190 and Notepad++ can't find it
20:44:06 <NekoMaster> or you mean Line 190?
20:44:27 <andythenorth> some editors have ‘jump to line #'
20:45:04 <NekoMaster> yeah, Notepad++ has "Go to..." and you can punch in the line number
20:45:52 <NekoMaster> For me to really understand how to get this working, it might be nice if I could have a copy of the Chaplins graphics and vehicle nmls
20:47:36 <andythenorth> actually Chaplin is a tank engine, and Iron Horse *always* uses 3 parts for every vehicle even if it’s not longer than 8/8
20:47:43 <andythenorth> because that’s easier to code
20:47:55 <NekoMaster> Are there any vehicles with multiple visable parts?
20:47:56 <andythenorth> but you should be able to figure out the articulated switch
20:48:08 <NekoMaster> also all the code is in python
20:48:24 <andythenorth> line 2403 - big bertha
20:49:00 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> doesn’t show catenary in my build of ottd though <-I think the flag is wrong, it loads "1" instead of "64"
20:49:25 <Wolf01> At least if I understand how this works
20:50:10 <Wolf01> But I can use another enum just for grf, maybe it's better
20:52:52 <Wolf01> Oh, I didn't merged the part where I used it to change even the GB() function, I can put any value... so 0
21:08:20 <NekoMaster> How would one code a railslug for OPenTTD?
21:08:38 <NekoMaster> make a no-powered engine that provides traction when connected to a diesel?
21:09:37 <andythenorth> complicated switches
21:09:40 <andythenorth> it could be done
21:09:51 <NekoMaster> Is there an easy way to do it?
21:10:12 <NekoMaster> can an attached car or engine copy the traction of the head end locomotive?
21:10:20 <Wolf01> There wasn't one in nars?
21:10:35 <NekoMaster> Slugs are demened superflouse
21:10:44 <andythenorth> you have to detect the ID of the neighbouring vehicle
21:10:52 <andythenorth> and then adjust the power
21:11:06 <andythenorth> you also need to check the grfid to make sure it’s same grf, not some totally other grf :P
21:11:27 <andythenorth> and if you want to allow it to connect to NARS 2 engines, you’d need to check a couple of grfids
21:11:41 <NekoMaster> i guess I should leave that for now until another time
21:12:01 <NekoMaster> im just going back to setting up sprite sheets... i have a headache now from trying to understand new code
21:14:05 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: leave the slug :)
21:14:15 <andythenorth> if you look in iron-horse.nml at cargo_sprinter_switch_graphics_0_1_check_preceding_vehicle_same_id
21:14:28 <andythenorth> you’ll find that there’s a lot of switches that check neighbouring vehicles around there
21:14:33 <andythenorth> but it’s non-trivial
21:14:58 <andythenorth> those are for switching graphics, not power, but same approach would work
21:15:40 <Wolf01> Andy, I don't know how, but would be possible to change props of the second roadtype?
21:16:30 *** NekoMaster has left #openttd
21:18:03 <Wolf01> Also, I committed the fix, so you can try it yourself
21:18:40 <Samu> Hi glx I'm on my fx-8150 system again, won't be on the athlon xp 2700+ anytime soon
21:19:54 <Samu> i tried to create a SSE build but openttd crashes
21:20:24 <Samu> the release build crashes, the debug build doesn't crash
21:20:58 <Samu> Unhandled exception at 0x00FD0002 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation executing location 0x00FD0002.
21:21:46 <Samu> > openttd.exe!Vehicle::HandleLoading(bool mode) Line 2156 C++
21:22:31 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
21:34:19 <andythenorth> Wolf01: it’s only one roadtype so far :)
21:34:24 <andythenorth> I’ll add another shortly
21:39:24 <andythenorth> “attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 80)"
21:46:35 <V453000> was modelling a water tanker and suddenly I bought new headphones for home ._.
21:54:39 <andythenorth> V453000: sounds pretty standard
21:54:51 <V453000> happens to you with lego?
21:58:33 <andythenorth> not actually true, andythenorth never checks email
22:02:28 <andythenorth> now I have to look for new ones
22:55:06 <Samu> Milek7_: hi, i'm testing a server with 240 ais
23:14:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd
23:18:14 <Milek7_> Samu: how much cpu it uses?
23:48:13 <Samu> Milek7_: oops, sorry i was watching tv
23:50:56 <Samu> i'm not sure, it's spiky
continue to next day ⏵
