IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-09-17
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00:01:25 <Samu> CmdLandscapeClear at landscape.cpp
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00:36:42 <Samu> i dont really know the behaviour of objects
00:37:07 <Samu> if a company places objects on the map, but then bankrupts , what happens to the objects?
00:37:49 <Samu> what about company merging?
00:38:03 <Samu> they belong to new company?
00:38:44 <Samu> openttd code isn't too clear
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10:00:59 <Wolf01> Damn PC... tried to fuck up ram again :(
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10:27:35 <Alberth> it just loooves eating ram :)
10:34:56 <Wolf01> It can eat what it wants, but not my time and money
10:37:30 <Wolf01> I can't understand why the ram works at 2166MHz now, it should work at 2666 with default settings
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12:09:41 <Samu> I found a way to crash 1.6.1
12:10:45 <Samu> it needs OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2 and a company bankrupting
12:13:15 <Samu> i see some servers using this grf
12:13:35 <Samu> they could be crashed t.t
12:15:01 <Samu> autoclean empty companies makes it even faster
12:25:07 <Wolf01> Alt+0 is a nice shortcut to try in OTTD
12:27:13 <Samu> im reporting the bug, sec
12:35:11 <Samu> a serious fault condition bla bla
12:41:56 <Samu> there is another bug related to OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2 but it's a price calculation error, doesn't result in a crash
12:47:05 <Samu> it says planetmaker is manager
12:49:13 <Samu> i'm not sure to whom I report this finding :(
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13:35:42 <andythenorth> but 10/8 is an awkard length :P
13:36:10 <andythenorth> 4/8 engine, 2 wagons at 3/8?
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14:57:26 <Samu> assert(index < this->first_unused);
14:57:54 <Samu> it crashes here when trying to draw face of a non-existant company
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15:25:03 <Samu> water-based or water based
15:26:32 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL :Allow water-based infrastructure on canals owned by competitors: {STRING2}
15:28:42 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL_HELPTEXT :Allow construction of ship depots, docks and locks on canals owned by other companies. Also allow other water based infrastructures such as Oil Rigs and Objects to be funded or prospected on canals owned by other companies.
15:29:00 <Samu> water-based or water based?
15:29:06 <Samu> infrastructure or infrastructures?
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15:32:32 <Alberth> I'd be tempted to use waterbased, even, but water-based should be fine
15:33:42 <Alberth> not sure about "infrastructure", it's usually something technical, so an industry would work
15:34:18 <Alberth> but an object might not really qualify as infra structure
15:34:26 <Alberth> eg a fishing boat or so
15:34:45 <Alberth> maybe "water-based structures" ?
15:34:55 <Alberth> (and I'd drop the examples)
15:37:24 <Alberth> not sure about fs#5612, I think there are more examples where newgrf costs are not entirely consistent
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15:38:09 <Alberth> if it's a bug the bug is in OpenGFX+landscape, I think
15:43:19 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL :Allow water-based structures on canals owned by competitors: {STRING2} STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL_HELPTEXT :Allow construction of ship depots, docks and locks on canals owned by other companies. Also allow water-based industries such as Oil Rigs to be funded or prospected on canals owned by other companies.
15:43:27 <Samu> no mention to objects at all?
15:45:41 <Samu> oki, i'm submitting the patch, think it's ready
15:49:08 <Alberth> Well, "funded or prospected" is something exclusively for industries
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15:50:10 <Samu> i'll call it build on competitor canal v1 r27655
15:57:02 <drac_boy> unrelated but heh .. about to order a few hundred dollars worth of bavarian/drg trains by next week here :-p
16:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "a few hundred dollars" would mean one model, if it's detailed enough...
16:16:55 <drac_boy> matter of fact one of the marklin steam locomotive lettered for bavaria is not surprisingly rather low price but still comes with a few extra glue-on details still? ;)
16:17:18 <drac_boy> most of the cost would be in wagons tho. especially with the coach at $50-$80 each -_-
16:21:32 <drac_boy> on the other hand fleischmann wants to ask like $800+ for a P8 locomotive which is a bit odd given that fleischmann is not exactly one of your high end brands (especially compared to brawa etc)
16:21:42 <drac_boy> kinda a bit weird but what do I know of what they're trying to do
16:42:06 <Alberth> oh, that's easy, the're trying to get maximal profit now and in the future
16:42:57 <drac_boy> alberth well they're in the wrong class for that tbh :)
16:43:20 <Alberth> they obviously disagree with you on that :p
16:43:46 <Alberth> aka you're not their intended public :p
16:44:10 <drac_boy> alberth public = fleischmann != brass
16:44:33 <drac_boy> they're probably going have to lose a large chunk of their market if they are moving to brass pricing
16:45:00 <drac_boy> (brawa had always been a bit of a low volume but thats their merit for high details of unique models)
16:45:02 <Alberth> and you think they didn't consider that?
16:45:40 <drac_boy> well given that marklin and even lgb both have been bailed out .. I don't think fleischmann would be wise to try skip the mass-$ market
16:46:01 <drac_boy> (tbh marklin might have produced low cost models but many of their locomotives were and still are in the $300+ range)
16:47:00 <drac_boy> bit OT but I think lionel even had to flip at least once too
16:50:13 <Samu> Allow construction of ship depots, docks and locks on canals owned by other companies. Also allow funding or prospecting water-based industries such as Oil Rigs on canals owned by other companies.
16:51:39 <drac_boy> samu hmm probably, I'm maybe not the best one to comment on that tho :p
16:52:30 <Samu> about to submit patch, only fixing typos and comments and spaces, :(
16:52:53 <Alberth> description seems ok to me
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17:14:27 <Samu> interesting that I logged dates
17:14:37 <Samu> took me 1 year and half to complete
17:15:30 <Samu> i'm not sure if ppl like the idea of indestructible rivers
17:15:43 <Samu> but that's how it is right now
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17:28:53 <Samu> now i need testers and no one will test. kappa
17:29:06 <Samu> oh well, back to being bored
17:30:12 <andythenorth> Samu: try patching flat docks?
17:34:07 <drac_boy> alberth you mean like you want be able to put a dock in a city canal without the issues of having to bulldoze a 2x3 hill to put it on?
17:34:58 <Alberth> ^ that's the better person to ask ;)
17:35:14 <andythenorth> it’s harder than it sounds
17:36:07 <drac_boy> heh I've never had any issues with the canals .. but what do I know tho :)
17:43:49 <Wolf01> Found new drug... Reassembly, I can't stop playing :D
17:44:07 <drac_boy> wolf01 whats that? :)
17:46:27 <andythenorth> looks like nice art style Wolf01
17:46:44 <Wolf01> Minimalist and Penrose style building
17:47:13 <drac_boy> wolf01 ah heh well I think I'll stick to ttdxp at home and the infrequent progress on factoryidle .. but seem like you're quite a gamer tho :P
17:47:42 <Wolf01> I'm a gamer, not quite :P
17:48:49 <Wolf01> Also there is a lot of physics, if you want to change direction you need thrusters on the right points, which can weak your armor, so more armor and the thruster point changes XD
17:49:06 <Wolf01> Or just spam thrusters until you can't add any more blocks
17:51:01 * drac_boy puts a EVO ship onto wolf01's keyboard :p
17:52:13 <Samu> oops, documentation bug t.t
17:54:28 <andythenorth> engine is 4/8, would be better 3/8
17:54:40 <andythenorth> but then the total length isn’t 10/8
17:55:01 <argoneus> good evening train friends
17:55:05 <andythenorth> I could do a single 7/8 wagon
17:56:51 <drac_boy> anyway going for lunch so have fun wolf01 and samu
17:59:11 <Samu> doesn't change the code portion at all
17:59:47 <Samu> smart dock placement, i see
18:00:04 <Samu> but that would require dock orientation?
18:00:38 <Samu> there's 4 directions possible, hmm
18:00:43 <andythenorth> or the lengths can change
18:02:14 <Samu> what would a dock lenght do?
18:03:01 <Alberth> longer docks, would be my guess
18:04:45 <Samu> you want bigger docks to have more ships docking locations?
18:05:49 <andythenorth> there are multiple possible approaches to docks
18:05:59 <andythenorth> - limit the number of ships
18:06:26 <andythenorth> - make them arbitrarily buildable in 1x1 units, XOR 1x2 / 2x1 units
18:06:58 <andythenorth> - make them able to build on flat or slope, or force them to be on a water tile (arbitrary docking points, anywhere, supporting transfers)
18:07:50 <andythenorth> - keep the current docks in all other respects, but also permit multi-dock so that ships go to the nearest dock, and stations can span land barriers
18:08:07 <andythenorth> some of these are compatible ideas, some are mutually exclusive
18:08:20 <andythenorth> I’d better also add this last one
18:08:26 <andythenorth> it’s kind of obligatory :P
18:09:20 <Alberth> you realize to talking to a programmer that doesn't know c++, right?
18:10:19 <andythenorth> I am not a programmer, and I also don’t know c++
18:10:46 <andythenorth> sometimes engineer
18:11:34 <Samu> you want docks to be like super big?
18:12:14 <andythenorth> someone needs to figure out how to make them better
18:12:55 <Samu> then instead of allowing multi-ships on a docking point, only 1 ship per docking point
18:13:34 <Samu> size of dock is user defined?
18:13:43 <Samu> kinda like a rail station size currently is?
18:13:57 <Samu> omg, that's a lot of stuff to do
18:15:07 <Samu> the auto terraform is harder imo
18:16:59 <Samu> docks have quite a bit catchment area, docks that long could be bad
18:18:48 <Alberth> start with 1 tile (or 2 tile) flat docks
18:19:10 <Alberth> 2 tile looks better probably
18:20:18 <Samu> the pathfinder would need to know where to send the ships in case of multi-docks
18:21:12 <Samu> let me re-read flat docks again
18:23:12 <Samu> maybe dock could autobuild a canal on bare land? that would help construction
18:23:25 <Samu> but the 3rd tile would still need to be water
18:24:14 <Samu> 3rd tile aka docking point
18:30:42 <Samu> a different approach for water construction: instead of coming up with an error saying that it must be built on water, auto builds missing canals
18:30:55 <Samu> locks already seem to do this
18:31:38 <Samu> building a buoy on land? auto-build the missing canal then put the buoy there
18:31:50 <Samu> canal prices however... are too big
18:44:54 <andythenorth> docks should just be plain water tiles
18:45:02 <andythenorth> remove the requirement to build near coast :P
18:45:32 <andythenorth> much better for rivers and canals, also more interesting for feeders
18:50:20 <Samu> '==': unsafe mix of type 'WaterClass' and type 'bool' in operation openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp 2500
18:50:47 <Samu> what does this mean? unsafe mix?
18:51:04 <Samu> Owner oc = wc == HasTileWaterGround(tile_cur) && GetWaterClass(tile_cur) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL ? GetCanalOwner(tile_cur) : _current_company;
18:52:55 <Samu> Owner oc = HasTileWaterGround(tile_cur) && GetWaterClass(tile_cur) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL ? GetCanalOwner(tile_cur) : _current_company;
18:58:22 <Samu> drag and drop docks for placement
18:58:57 <Samu> i can see your problem now
18:59:06 <Samu> it would be handy indeed
18:59:29 <Samu> minimum size required for drag and drop would be 2 tiles
18:59:54 <Samu> a bit like auto-rail and auto-road
19:06:14 <Samu> canal costs £5000, it's utterly expensive
19:06:29 <Samu> why did you decide on this price?
19:07:30 <Alberth> no doubt it's a tunable cost with a newgrf
19:08:50 <andythenorth> probably set high (1) because ships are too boss or (2) mistake
19:09:03 <andythenorth> ships are considered to be cheating by some
19:10:32 <Alberth> default ships are quit expensive too
19:11:12 <Alberth> also, 5k in default game is nothing
19:12:30 <Samu> { 5000, PCAT_CONSTRUCTION, GSF_END, PR_CLEAR_WATER }, ///< PR_BUILD_CANAL
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19:15:57 <Alberth> note that 5k is still a lot cheaper than lowering ground until sea level :)
19:17:05 <Samu> a monorail pieces cost £300
19:17:51 <Samu> canal cost £1800 - fair?
19:19:38 <Samu> price of aqueduct is also bad
19:19:44 <Alberth> there is no universal agreement on such things
19:19:46 <Samu> it already is hard to build them
19:23:52 <andythenorth> Samu: canals are known to be totally borked :)
19:23:58 <andythenorth> they have almost zero gameplay purpose
19:24:14 <andythenorth> except for building airports at sea level
19:40:07 <Samu> what makes more sense to be cheaper?
19:40:15 <Samu> 3 tile lock or 3 tile aqueduct?
19:56:16 <Samu> i've been thinking that maybe aqueducts have to be more expensive
19:56:28 <Samu> vehicles can go under it
19:57:10 <andythenorth> supermop, Alberth, Eddi|zuHause ^
19:57:22 <andythenorth> [ anyone else also :P ]
19:58:38 <andythenorth> I am preferring the single mail wagon
19:59:02 <Alberth> mail_tramz4, number 1?
19:59:52 <andythenorth> number 1 in tramz_3 - the wagons look like space invader sprites to me
19:59:52 <Alberth> yeah, that was my first idea too, but then the mail wagon is bigger than any engine
20:00:16 <andythenorth> pax version will be similar
20:00:46 <Alberth> the black roof makes it look weird perhaps
20:00:58 <Alberth> other black roofs are longer or shorter
20:01:56 <Alberth> amazing that that stuff is still available
20:03:09 <Alberth> what if you make tramz4 number 1 a pixel lower? would that help?
20:03:50 <andythenorth> the engine? Or all of it?
20:04:18 <Alberth> make it a little less massive
20:05:11 <Alberth> or add some windows at the start and end, like in number 3
20:05:39 <andythenorth> I can make it more chibi
20:05:42 <Alberth> the red area is a bit big
20:05:43 <andythenorth> I could just make it even shorter
20:06:40 <andythenorth> funny when that happens :P
20:06:56 <Alberth> ha, pax transport only when not raining :)
20:07:00 <andythenorth> think it’s dutch
20:08:27 <Alberth> ha, can't imagine people would be happy with a steam tram, coal smoke through the street :)
20:09:03 <andythenorth> at 1.29 in the video, there is an awesome bus also :o
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20:11:18 <Alberth> but 1957, so after WW2
20:11:46 <andythenorth> it’s not symmetrical though :
20:11:52 <andythenorth> most of the tramz are symmetrical
20:14:39 <andythenorth> better than google images in some ways
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20:29:43 <V453000> the engine is weird yes
20:32:06 <supermop> two small wagons i guess
20:35:48 <andythenorth> chassis is weird colour
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20:56:27 <andythenorth> I should make them respect transparent mode
20:56:32 <andythenorth> then you could see the cargo inside
20:56:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: ^ V453000 has requested toggle-able vehicle transparency
20:57:01 <andythenorth> controllable per vehicle layer by newgrf author, similar to industry
20:57:28 <V453000> well the idea isn't completely retarded, just slightly ;P
20:59:04 <andythenorth> flag on the layer :P
20:59:12 <andythenorth> and no it’s not silly
21:00:28 <V453000> yeah sure it's reasonable :)
21:00:46 <frosch123> just draw one less sprite?
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21:12:10 <andythenorth> child #1 says the engine is too red
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21:14:40 <V453000> send him to sleep immediately
21:19:09 <andythenorth> I am waiting for him to go to sleep also
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21:25:51 <andythenorth> I think 9 nails it
21:26:16 <andythenorth> the one with 2 doors messes with sense of scale
21:27:16 <andythenorth> I’ll make it more blue
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21:51:04 <andythenorth> also pax wagon can be similar style
22:07:05 <andythenorth> nah, it looks bigger than models that replace it
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22:55:58 <Samu> t.t, there's only 1 docking point :(
22:56:16 <Samu> i don't know how to icrease it
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23:20:30 <Samu> this is too much code for me to deal with
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23:22:37 <Samu> roadstop drive through have bays
23:22:54 <Samu> they can be free or busy
23:23:13 <Samu> how to make a bay busy for a ship?
23:24:59 <Samu> i wanted to try and make 3 "bays",
23:25:59 <Samu> no idea what to do at this point
23:26:32 <Samu> guess I'm gonna do something else
23:28:45 <Samu> an idea I had earlier today was a "drag and drop" building for docks.
23:30:20 <Samu> click, then drag towards a direction, to a max of 2 tiles, release, and the dock is built towards that direction
23:30:45 <Samu> with the exit towards that direction i mean
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