IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-09-18
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01:47:37 <goodger> (glasgow subway train designed for 335 cm tunnels)
01:47:53 <Supercheese> the clockwork orange?
02:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so the badger is the opposit of the goodger?
02:02:27 <goodger> yes, I am the opposite of a small, mal-designed and obsolete mass-transit system
02:02:37 <Supercheese> The goodger, the badger, and the uglyger
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10:08:40 <andythenorth> whatever I make up in my imagination, Russia has already built :P
10:25:04 <andythenorth> 2 sizes of pax tram is silly? spams the buy menu?
10:25:14 <andythenorth> sizes = capacities
10:25:35 * andythenorth has progression issues
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10:38:30 <Alberth> is there any reason not to pick the biggest one?
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10:43:35 <Wolf01> Bleurgh, I'm malfunctioning today :(
10:43:50 <Wolf01> But at least the pc started at the first try
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10:59:22 <andythenorth> Alberth: only if it’s a small town
10:59:57 <Alberth> ok, that won't happen to me :)
11:00:28 <Alberth> also, small towns grow pretty fast, unless it's blocked by something
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11:01:34 * andythenorth must find another way then
11:24:08 <andythenorth> odd numbers are the problem :P
11:25:05 <andythenorth> total lengths divisible by both 3 units and 4 units isn’t possible except 12/8 or 24/8 :P
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11:56:06 * andythenorth was reading about Wii U hardware, and now about Mario design
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12:09:27 <Alberth> games are designed too :)
12:33:15 * andythenorth could just make pax and mail trams 16/8 long, like the freight trams
12:33:41 <andythenorth> total consistency
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13:22:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: devzone is undead again
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13:55:15 <andythenorth> new problem is that I need 2 more modern versions after number 3 :P
13:55:26 <andythenorth> and number already looks modern :P
13:56:31 <Wolf01> Make more streamlined ones
13:56:52 <andythenorth> pax trams have same need
13:57:23 <andythenorth> slopes generally look bad in ttd scale though :)
13:58:06 <Wolf01> Make just the side view streamlined ;)
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14:59:12 <Samu> i still don't understand how terraform code works
14:59:34 <Samu> so i find a tile with a slope I don't like
14:59:55 <Samu> but then, i get different results
15:00:46 <Samu> first pass i get a tile with the slope I don't like, the code after it is working with the assumption of the tile before the terraform
15:01:13 <Samu> then at the second pass i get a flattened tile, the code after it is working with the wrong assumption
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16:02:49 <Samu> IsCoast returns false for trees
16:04:14 <Samu> trees don't have waterclass, why :(
16:07:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27656 trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp (2016-09-18 16:07:52 +0200 )
16:07:58 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6511]: When removing objects of bankrupt companies the tiles may revert to canal. In that case also check the ownership of the canal.
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16:15:11 <andythenorth> so what whole numbers add up to 16? :P
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16:29:23 <Alberth> create a speed bonus depending on consist length :p
16:36:50 <frosch123> i think andy should atleast restrict the numbers to >= 1
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16:50:23 <Alberth> can you even make 0/8 size vehicles?
17:05:24 <Samu> @calc 40 + 10000+10000+10000+10000+350
17:05:47 <Samu> hmm i'm getting 40640 :(
17:06:10 <goodger> Samu: using an intel microprocessor?
17:07:52 <Samu> @calc 40 + 10000 + 10000 + 10000 + 10000 + 250 + 350
17:08:45 <Samu> so, placing a dock with automatic terraform can get a cost of up to 40640, due to the cost of lowering a corner on water
17:09:01 <Samu> i don't think this is a good idea
17:11:36 <Samu> it eases construction, but the player has to be smart about it
17:12:58 <Samu> it's not even canal, it's ocean water
17:17:54 <Samu> actually, this cost can go higher
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17:55:11 <Samu> when it has to build canal
18:12:09 <Samu> docks cannot stop a flood
18:12:48 <Samu> if i remove the dock, it may not be a good idea to remove the canal automaticaly
18:16:27 <Samu> auto terraforming on sea level... :( hmm
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18:25:58 <mender27> Hello everyone :). I was wondering whether there are some ongoing efforts to convert the original MIDI music files into mp3 or any other format? I have some seriously problems getting timidity++ to work on GNU/Linux.
18:28:24 <Alberth> even if there is such an effort, the converted results could not be distributed
18:29:40 <Alberth> there is also libtimidity, did you install that?
18:30:28 <Samu> is there a way to get a GetTileMinZ or a way to detect if we're at sea level?
18:35:10 <Alberth> oh, and TileHeight too, I wonder what the difference is
18:37:25 <Alberth> ah, GetTileZ gives minimum height of its corners
18:37:55 <Samu> if (GetTileZ(tile_cur) == 0) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_SITE_UNSUITABLE);
18:38:17 <Samu> is there a SEA_LEVEL or something so i dont type 0
18:38:18 <Alberth> I hate that error, it doesn't say what is wrong
18:38:41 <mender27> Alberth, does it have something to do with the license? And no, I haven't heard of libtimidity umfortunately.
18:38:42 <andythenorth> 16/8 long, consistent with most other tram lengths
18:39:12 <Alberth> mender27: original music is copyrighted, just as original game data
18:39:23 <Samu> land sloped in wrong direction then?
18:39:31 <andythenorth> supermop: is tramz ^^
18:39:57 <mender27> Alberth, are the music replacement projects in MIDI then?
18:40:00 <Samu> no more automatic terraforming at sea level :)
18:42:54 <Alberth> mender27: I have no idea; I tend to use the NoMusic music pack, which is lovely silent :p
18:43:48 <mender27> Alberth, the reason I'm asking is that there is a known conflict between timidity and PulseAudio and it cannot be manually fixed by some file replacements. I personally really like the original music :).
18:47:37 <andythenorth> so what GS should I use in my test game? o_O
18:48:17 <Samu> if (GetTileZ(tile) == 0 && GetTileZ(tile_cur) == 0) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_SITE_UNSUITABLE);
18:48:30 <V453000> andythenorth stop pretending you play this game
18:48:45 <Samu> tile is the sloped dock tile on land, tile_cur is the watered dock tile
18:49:25 <andythenorth> V453000: sometimes
18:49:38 <andythenorth> for about 60 years
18:49:41 <V453000> I have actually been playing quite a bit in the last 2 days too
18:49:45 <Alberth> Samu: they can be different?
18:50:04 <andythenorth> got some problems, but eh
18:50:05 <mender27> Alberth, last question. Is it fine if the sound files the OpenTTD project provides are packaged for Fedora?
18:50:21 <V453000> well I am still finding new things that nobody has built yet ever andythenorth
18:50:28 <V453000> that alone to me is absolutely insane
18:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> elections are "fun"... everybody loses, but some of those losers declare themselves "winner"
18:50:53 <V453000> that a game can be actually so complex for years
18:51:20 <Alberth> mender27: Don't think any court will be impressed that you have created original work then :)
18:51:53 <Alberth> and quite likely, Fedora will never accept such files
18:52:28 <Alberth> but why make your life difficult? just dump the files in ~/.openttd
18:52:46 <Alberth> probably in some sub-directory of that
18:53:07 <mender27> Alberth, well, the files are available as AUR packages for Arch Linux somehow. I mean, I could also just use the in-game downloader to get them that way.
18:53:44 <Alberth> that means someone is not respecting copyright
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18:54:10 <Alberth> and probably someone else is not checking stuff carefully :)
18:54:12 <mender27> Alberth, alright, this seems pretty clear then. I was not aware of that.
18:54:32 <Samu> is there a way to forbid the terraform to touch water tiles?
18:54:36 <mender27> Alberth, I only saw that the opensfx files are under Creative Commons Plus.
18:54:56 <Samu> ret = DoCommand(tile_cur, z ? slope : ComplementSlope(slope), z ? 0 : 1, flags, CMD_TERRAFORM_LAND);
18:55:05 <andythenorth> V453000: what have you found? o_O
18:55:13 <Alberth> mender27: yep, but that's sound effects, and not music
18:55:23 <Alberth> there may be a music pack too
18:55:59 <andythenorth> ach, these passenger trams are breaking my brain
18:56:08 <Alberth> tried the ingame downloader? type "music" and see what turns up :)
18:56:14 <mender27> Alberth, well, I was personally more interested in the music. Either of them can be downloaded via the in-game downloader, except that music will not work due to a conflict with PulseAudio as I mentioned.
18:56:56 <mender27> Alberth, so I think if at all, I should probably come up with a smart workaround to get the music to play at all and not spend time finding means of packaging it :P.
18:57:30 <Alberth> bleeding edge software breaks every now and then :)
18:58:03 <mender27> timidity++ is actually quite old and the problem's been around for some time already :(.
18:58:22 <Alberth> I think I use it too, for sfx, and it seems to work
18:58:44 <Alberth> but I don't care much about sound or music, as I usually have the radio on
18:59:08 <mender27> Alberth, it works for sfx, yes. Not for music, though. Regarding the music files, I realized it's fine for Arch Linux to have the packages in AUR, because they only contain means of downloading the files, not the files themselves.
18:59:27 <Alberth> ah, that would be fine
18:59:38 <mender27> Alberth, everything in the end is pulled from the OpenTTD project repositories :).
18:59:53 <mender27> same for FreeBSD ports, in fact.
19:00:09 <Alberth> luckily, linuces tend to have their own mirror :)
19:00:19 <Alberth> that saves us a lot of bandwidth
19:00:54 <Alberth> now if they also would always distribute the newst stable ....... :)
19:01:26 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/L0LRo - got a problem here. I'm placing a dock, and the terraform is gonna auto-flat the corner of the 2nd tile, but that means I'm touching the water... I don't want to allow sea leavel changes, what do I do?
19:02:37 <Alberth> what's the point of a dock that is not at water height?
19:02:38 <mender27> Alberth, you mean the "nightly" gets used or what?
19:02:57 <Alberth> mender27: not much at all, I think
19:03:04 <Samu> imagine an aqueduct is placed in front of it
19:03:25 <Alberth> but some distributions still use 1.5.3, while we have released 1.6.1 almost 6 months ago
19:03:41 <mender27> Alberth, I know Arch Linux regularly builds the newest version where there is a version bump.
19:04:02 <mender27> when there is*. Otherwise yes, Ubuntu, Debian, etc. use the old version.
19:04:03 <Alberth> that's to be expected, Arch is literally bleeding edge :)
19:04:20 <mender27> Fedora also has the most recent version I think.
19:04:42 <Alberth> Samu: perhaps not use all corners for deciding height, but eg only the middle 2 or so?
19:05:11 <Alberth> no idea, I always build directly from trunk, hardly ever use a stable :)
19:05:53 <Alberth> Samu: but you need to define something so the user knows what he will get
19:06:01 <mender27> Alberth, what VCS is used by the OpenTTD project?
19:06:13 <Alberth> you can of course also check other tiles for water height
19:06:33 <Alberth> mender27: commits are in svn, but there are mirrors to hg and git
19:07:11 <mender27> Alberth, cool, I might be interested in checking the git mirrors then. I work primarily with git, though I did use svn for FreeBSD kernel tree sources.
19:08:28 <mender27> Alberth, thanks a lot :). What GNU/Linux distribution do you use?
19:08:46 <mender27> Alberth, have you tried Arch Linux also?
19:09:24 <Alberth> no, arch linux didn't exist at the time
19:10:01 <Alberth> and I am sort of done experimenting linux distributions
19:10:20 <Alberth> ie I just need one that works, and that's it
19:11:03 <Alberth> I prefer to hack program source code rather than fighting OS programs :)
19:11:50 <Alberth> at work I use Ubuntu, and that sort of works too, except for Gnome :p
19:11:53 <mender27> Alberth, hehe, I agree. I'm reaching a similar conclusion recently. I'm actually hacking package distribution in Fedora nowadays.
19:12:24 <mender27> Alberth, I switched all of my machines, even servers to Fedora, because there's just so much less hassle.
19:12:51 <mender27> and at work we use CentOS, as it was deemed "the most stable" from the RPM family.
19:13:17 <Alberth> ha, we did that too, but it turned out a bit too stable :p
19:14:05 <Alberth> you can't run anything from outside sources, as everybody assumes newer packages of everything :p
19:14:52 <mender27> Alberth, ah yes, this does tend to happen. Most of my folks are computer savvy, but not UNIX savvy so we went for CentOS. It's supposed to just work.
19:15:34 <mender27> Alberth, the added requirement was a distribution supported by our program suite provider. That's also one of the reasons I switched to Fedora and not stayed with whatever other UNIX-like.
19:17:22 <Alberth> although in the end, the differences are not that big, which is also a reason not to experiment too much with distributions
19:17:39 <Alberth> they don't have radically different software at all :)
19:19:52 <mender27> Alberth, exactly. Plus, it's worth knowing how to distribute for one of the "big three". Just to let you know, I removed the project with the music files I had on the Fedora build server.
19:20:49 <andythenorth> power tram + 2 short trailers
19:20:53 <andythenorth> chibi, but less silly
19:24:02 <Alberth> also, time for dinner
19:26:00 <mender27> Alberth, if there are more people actually interested in getting the MIDI files to play on GNU/Linux with PulseAudio, I might find the motivation to work on a solution. Right now it's "case closed" and I'll simply use the in-game downloader :).
19:27:41 <Samu> yay, DC_NO_WATER was the answer
19:27:59 <Samu> ret = DoCommand(tile_cur, z ? slope : ComplementSlope(slope), z ? 0 : 1, flags | DC_NO_WATER, CMD_TERRAFORM_LAND);
19:28:32 <Samu> terraform, but not on water
19:33:34 <Alberth> "carriages" covers them better :)
19:33:59 <Alberth> in-between horse carriages and proper trams :)
19:34:54 <V453000> andythenorth: just some extremely insane construction
19:35:27 <V453000> basically I have trains load passengers just to make them fulfill some conditional condition, and the passengers get deadened upon refiting magix
19:37:14 <Samu> the part about Move to second tile was were i made the auto terraform changes
19:37:51 <Samu> the 3rd tile won't check for water
19:38:58 <Samu> i copy pasted that coa stuff from tunnelbridge, still a bit confused about it
19:44:12 <Samu> what does clear object area do?
19:51:31 <Samu> i dont understand how it works
19:51:48 <Samu> only that it gets the job done
19:54:13 <mender27> Alberth, how is multiplayer handled in OpenTTD? Direct IP-to-IP connections?
19:55:16 <Alberth> not sure, but one of the machines becomes the server, and handles synchronization, and distribution of commands
19:56:42 <mender27> Alberth, like in old-school LAN, right?
19:57:14 <Alberth> that could work, but you can also play across the internet
19:57:16 <mender27> Alberth, I think old Diablo 2 had such an option.
19:57:46 <mender27> Alberth, there was an IP-to-IP mode, but also via LAN with a central host.
19:57:50 <Alberth> all machines play the game, you just need one of them to handle synchronization and connecting to
19:58:17 <mender27> Alberth, makes sense then. Cool :). Do you play OpenTTD in multi often?
19:58:36 <Alberth> I don't play the game much at all :)
19:58:45 <Alberth> but that seems to be a habit of devs :p
19:59:45 <Alberth> we prefer games in source code :p
20:00:09 <mender27> Alberth, tehe. and I came up with a way to play the music while gaming. The OST is available on Youtube. As in "fun with numbers"? ;>
20:01:06 <mender27> man, the original music is simply godly...
20:23:01 <mender27> frosch123, thanks a lot :).
20:23:48 <mender27> The theory might be useful for some of my feature Python projects ;D.
20:33:09 <Samu> why not add replays to openttd?
20:35:30 <Samu> "desync recording", rename it to "replay"
20:47:00 <Rubidium> because it is unstable as hell? Add/remove/change one character in the source code and things might not replay in the same way anymore
20:55:58 <Samu> even in the same version?
21:07:42 <Rubidium> no, but same is really strict
21:16:21 <Samu> if (GetTileZ(tile) == 0 && GetTileZ(tile_cur) == 0) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_SITE_UNSUITABLE);
21:16:24 <Samu> ret = DoCommand(tile_cur, z ? slope : ComplementSlope(slope), z ? 0 : 1, flags | DC_NO_WATER, CMD_TERRAFORM_LAND);
21:16:55 <Samu> and this if (!IsTileFlat(tile_cur)) {
21:25:22 <Samu> seems to be doing what i want
21:25:59 <Samu> there are too many slope configurations
21:26:20 <Samu> do you see a combination which could be removing water?
21:27:06 <Samu> maybe this part needs a comment
21:33:06 <Samu> there are 7 slope configurations for the 2nd tile
21:33:34 <Samu> the other 6 are auto-terraformed
21:34:01 <Samu> but it depends if it touches sea water
21:41:48 <andythenorth> [just getting the sizes right]
21:47:58 <andythenorth> #5 too long still
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23:10:49 <Samu> is there a problem with the terraform command with | DC_NO_WATER or is it me?
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