IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-09-16
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00:05:14 <Samu> industry_cmp.cpp code is confusing :(
00:05:52 <Samu> if (_settings_game.construction.build_on_competitor_canal && (ind_behav & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) && (IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_INDUSTRY) || _current_company >= MAX_COMPANIES)) return ret;
00:06:04 <Samu> i'm trying to understand why did I write this line
00:06:26 <Samu> especially the part (IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_INDUSTRY)+
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00:16:58 <Samu> i can't follow this huge code
00:18:30 <Samu> CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree
00:22:09 <Samu> what I wanna know is what has been done before line 1424
00:22:36 <Samu> line 1425 fails for what?
00:23:53 <Samu> and i want it not to fail on certain cases
00:27:18 <Samu> if (ret.Failed()) { if (!(ind_behav & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER)) return ret;
00:28:02 <Samu> this sets appart all land industry placement failures
00:28:40 <Samu> below this line i'm dealing with failures of industry tiles that are built on water
00:29:17 <Samu> what can make it fail and what cannot make it fail, that's the question
00:31:51 <Samu> i got this there, written last year
00:32:01 <Samu> and i wanna understand why
00:36:16 <Samu> IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_INDUSTRY) I'm utterly confused by this
00:37:28 <Samu> if it fails because there is an industry tile at the moment of placing the oil rig, then really fail
00:39:11 <Samu> what if the entire water is buoys or stuff like that?
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00:43:31 <Samu> alright, i just built an oil rig on top of a buoy
00:51:08 <Samu> I think I know what to do, at least I got the idea
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01:39:08 <Samu> will this do what I want?
02:01:52 <Samu> i got a question, how do GS's create industries?
02:02:46 <Samu> ST2: are you familiar with GS's creating industries?
02:03:42 <Samu> does anyone know of GSs that creates industries at the start of a game?
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10:47:46 <Wolf01> Just installed Space Engineers, the first thing I managed to do is to break my ship in half
10:49:11 <Wolf01> Back to Reassembly, at least there ships rebuild by themselves
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11:00:46 <V453000> 500 people at the same time on 1 factorio server yesterday XD
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11:28:04 <Samu> what if locks were waypoints?
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12:48:54 <argoneus> good morning train friends
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12:52:50 <Samu> what do you guys think of locks as waypoints instead?
12:54:16 <Wolf01> Only with a "wait to raise/lower" order
12:59:19 <argoneus> Wolf01: I installed win10 tomorrow
12:59:26 <argoneus> so far it feels pretty much the same as win7
12:59:31 <argoneus> except more modern and lighter
12:59:42 <argoneus> by tomorrow I mean yesterday
13:04:23 <Wolf01> Nice, are you living in the backward-time? :D
13:04:47 <andythenorth> maybe it got older and heavier
13:04:52 <andythenorth> but just backwards
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13:25:34 <andythenorth> Pikka: how is cat?
13:27:50 <Samu> well, the assert is right, but damn it... they're so unexpected
13:29:57 <andythenorth> one for each row in the buy menu
13:31:16 <andythenorth> Pikka any job? o_O
13:31:39 <Pikka> no job, some art, some uni
13:41:50 <Flygon> I'd be veeeeeeerry worried about arcing
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14:06:36 <andythenorth> Flygon: new disaster
14:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> don't small ufos also land on trams?
14:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever tried disasters since trams were introduced
14:12:45 <Pikka> I don't see why they wouldn't
14:22:01 <Samu> i just commented out a comment, if that makes any sense
14:41:32 <andythenorth> Pikka: how big should buses be? And pax tramz?
14:43:50 <Pikka> how big? capacity or pixels?
14:44:14 <andythenorth> buses are obviously 30-40 pax :P
14:44:26 <andythenorth> but then…a UK set needs double-decker ones
14:44:32 <andythenorth> and tramz must be bigger again
14:44:39 * andythenorth should delete them all, BAD FEATURES
14:45:02 <Pikka> my double deckers were 40-65
14:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> 50% bigger sounds right
14:45:28 <andythenorth> I think 65 is the natural size
14:45:43 <andythenorth> currently they are 50-90, which is too big
14:46:10 <Pikka> 90 is the capacity of my largest (articulated) tram
14:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> 90 sounds too small for a tram
14:47:22 <andythenorth> how long in vehicle length?
14:48:22 <Pikka> never got as far as drawing it
14:48:32 <Pikka> but 3 articulated pieces, modern light rail stylez
14:48:51 <Pikka> why is 90 too small? That's more than two rail coaches
14:50:51 <andythenorth> mine are too big
14:51:21 <dihedral> that's what everybody says
14:51:36 <andythenorth> just most people
14:51:51 <dihedral> true - i do know a girl that does not say that
14:52:07 * andythenorth has no idea what you’re talking about
14:52:44 <andythenorth> Road Hog has tramz with 80-240 pax
14:53:35 <andythenorth> one tram for whole map?
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17:31:12 <Samu> the comments of ChangeTileOwner_Water are so confusing
17:32:30 <Samu> i removed everything about lockmiddle there
17:32:42 <Samu> they are coded differently now
17:34:21 <Samu> * Check if the new owner after removing depot isn't OWNER_WATER. */
17:35:57 <Samu> /* Set owner of canals and locks ... and also canal under dock there was before.
17:36:17 <Samu> /* Set owner of canal, and also canal parts under (now removed) lock, dock and ship depot to OWNER_NONE. */
17:36:52 <Samu> buoys have been dealt somewhere else
17:37:02 <Samu> oilrig station and industry too
17:37:21 <Samu> industries don't bankrupt anyway
17:37:35 <Samu> but the canal under them
17:37:43 <Samu> must change ownership, it's been dealt with
17:38:31 <Samu> now i need a saveload conversion for locks.... must think
17:53:05 <Samu> lock conversion is gonna be hell :(
17:54:06 <Samu> the owner of the lock is set at the middle tile... how do i walk to that tile?
17:59:43 <Alberth> something with TileDxDy iirc
18:34:44 <Samu> i need old saves with locks, for verification :p
18:37:20 <Samu> 20 water tiles became 22 water tiles
18:37:51 <Samu> ah ya right, middle now counts as +1 to water infrastructure
19:08:54 <Samu> gah i forget what's a river, what's a canal
19:13:01 <Samu> 0 00 00000 - no canal on river / sea / company #1
19:15:04 <Samu> k think i got a problem, must fix
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20:59:19 <Samu> the bug was in the company_sl.cpp
20:59:37 <Samu> i still don't get breaks and FALL THROUGH stuff
21:00:18 <Samu> afterload.cpp is fine after all
21:13:23 * andythenorth favours smaller trams
21:13:31 <andythenorth> want more density?
21:13:34 <andythenorth> user more trams?
21:13:51 <andythenorth> smaller = ~100 pax instead of ~200 pax
21:15:39 <Samu> i got everything done, except objects
21:16:05 <Samu> i may need help dealing with object tiletype
21:27:08 <Samu> hmm the price of clearing objects is buggy... let me check 1.6.1
21:29:15 <Samu> and this is why i hate objects
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21:30:43 <Samu> oops, let me start over, got the prices wrong
21:30:52 <Samu> place a rock on a river, costs £640
21:31:04 <Samu> remove the rock, costs £256
21:31:16 <Samu> build a canal on a river, costs £5000
21:31:29 <drac_boy> just wondering if any german historians in here atm heh .. did trains even end up with both drg and bavaria rolling stock or it was pretty much a 'clean' switchover era?
21:31:56 <Samu> now, another different way to do the same:
21:32:05 <andythenorth> drac_boy: when did this happen?
21:32:08 <Samu> place a rock on a river, costs £640
21:32:34 <Samu> build a canal on the rock, costs £15,256
21:33:15 <Samu> it should have cost £5,256
21:33:50 <drac_boy> well bavaria seem to have stopped their ordering in 1924ish (and anything after that was apparently considered bavaria design under drg nameplate instead)
21:34:21 <drac_boy> but I haven't apparently found any photo or tidbit about for example having bavaria and drg coaches together on one train
21:40:10 <drac_boy> anyway at least I'm not a rivet counter :P
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21:44:33 <drac_boy> ughh sorry need to afk for a while
21:47:24 <Samu> if (spec->grf_prop.grffile != NULL) { td->grf = GetGRFConfig(spec->grf_prop.grffile->grfid)->GetName();
21:47:33 <Samu> GRRRRFFFRGGRDFGRGFPRGRFGR
22:03:13 <andythenorth> ach road vehicle tunnelling
22:03:32 <andythenorth> what causes 12/8 trams to tunnel in the stops? 10/8 and 14/8 don’t seem to do afaict
22:05:19 <andythenorth> the 3rd vehicle arriving at the stop can’t load
22:05:41 <andythenorth> then after a minute or so it tunnels, and occupies the same location as the 1st vehicle at the front of the stop
22:05:44 <andythenorth> and starts loading
22:05:59 <andythenorth> it’s weird, looks odd, and is hard to explain/understand
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22:22:27 <supermop_> andythenorth: it seems to happen only after waiting a long time, think it has to do with the quantum queing setting
22:22:36 <supermop_> i notice it with trucks
22:23:56 <supermop_> if i am starting a lot of RVs on time table, i try not to let them to the first stop more than 30 or so days before their start time because that seems to happen if several are waiting in a line, then the order gets all messed up
22:26:56 <andythenorth> it’s caused by quantum effects yes
22:27:00 <andythenorth> I can just disable it
22:27:14 <andythenorth> but that doesn’t help determine effective vehicle lengths :)
22:27:27 <andythenorth> 12/8 triggers the problem, for certain configurations of road stop
22:28:23 <andythenorth> the confusing aspect - if more than one RV can occupy a loading spot, why bother tunneling?
22:29:33 <andythenorth> 10/8 vehicles are also doing it
22:29:52 <andythenorth> it increases the effective capacity of the road stop arbitrarily
22:30:02 <andythenorth> if I could predict this behaviour, I could build much smaller road stops
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22:31:44 <andythenorth> ha 16/8 vehicles do it, it’s just harder to see
22:31:51 <andythenorth> so I have 20 vehicles packed into 6 roadstops
22:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the tunneling is not a problem, the "benefit" of longer vehicles is that the following vehicle will see an occupied platform and pick another platform to load, if applicable
22:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> for shorter vehicles, the second vehicle arrives at the splitting point before the first vehicle reserves the platform
22:39:40 <andythenorth> yes I understand that much :) that is easy to show in testing
22:39:52 <andythenorth> the primary objection of the tunneling is that it makes no sense
22:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes no sense, yes, but it's sporadically needed to un-block things
22:40:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not a terribly good feature
22:40:53 <andythenorth> most of RVs are not terribly good :)
22:40:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but i wouldn't worry about it
22:44:09 <andythenorth> it has an irritating tendency to leave gaps at 12/8
22:44:23 <andythenorth> but otherwise yeah
22:44:30 <andythenorth> it is what it is
22:45:57 <andythenorth> I am favouring relatively short mail trams
22:46:04 <andythenorth> with low capacity
22:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> tunneling should only happen when you have too long (full) loading times
22:48:44 <andythenorth> happy to be persuaded to ignore this :)
22:59:28 <andythenorth> 10/8 mail trams, and same-generation 16/8 box trams (refittable to mail at higher capacity)
23:06:59 <Samu> i don't get object stuff
23:07:10 <Samu> too much NewGRF in the way
23:09:14 <andythenorth> [the mail is in the cart at the back]
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23:38:33 <Samu> bool water = IsWaterTile(tile);
23:38:46 <Samu> well, the type is an object
23:40:53 <Samu> I'm using OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2 and i placed 'Rocky Land' on a river tile
23:41:18 <Samu> it doesn't consider it as water anymore, but an object
23:41:37 <Samu> this is going to affect the prices when doing clears
23:42:23 <Samu> when building a canal over it, it goes through bool water = IsWaterTile(tile) and returns false
23:42:42 <Samu> ret = DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, flags | DC_FORCE_CLEAR_TILE, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR); if (ret.Failed()) return ret;
23:43:06 <Samu> it clears the 'Rocky Land' and gets back the river
23:43:14 <Samu> but next, if (!water) cost.AddCost(ret);
23:43:58 <Samu> it's adding the price of a FORCE CLEAR TILE
23:47:05 <Samu> + cost {m_value=10000 } const OverflowSafeInt<__int64,9223372036854775807,-9223372036854775808> &
23:47:29 <Samu> it's adding the price for clearing the river t.t
23:48:03 <Samu> it should add the cost of clearing the object, not the river
23:57:05 <Samu> and finally add the cost of a canal, which is £5000
23:59:35 <Samu> I am uncertain where the problem actually manifests
23:59:53 <Samu> CmdBuildCanal at water_cmp.cpp or
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