IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-09-10
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00:02:23 <_dp_> s to n 18 straight + 7 diagonals, n to s 14 + 9, not counting repeated frames (adds +2 to both)
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00:23:05 <_dp_> creatively duplicating frames may help though, adding 0, 2 to first pair and 4, 0 to second
00:25:19 <_dp_> duplicating without changing direction will probably look bad though
00:29:07 <_dp_> guess there is no way to fix it without changing states
00:31:51 <_dp_> on a bright side doesn't seem to need a savegame conversion if amount of frames is not reduced
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01:18:05 <Samu> 29/27 was the result i observed with naked eye
01:18:21 <Samu> i bet the other direction is 28/28
01:21:29 <Samu> 18+7+2+2 = 29 is the result I consider "best"
01:21:46 <Samu> if you're going to fix something, try to get 29
01:27:40 <Samu> erm, i was actually right, confused by my own confusion
01:28:30 <_dp_> Samu, what's so good about 29?
01:28:51 <Samu> with NE - SW and NW - SE
01:29:23 <_dp_> Samu, it's one of your patched versions?
01:29:35 <Samu> yes, but didnt touch the road vehicles
01:32:30 <_dp_> Samu, curiously enough 29 turn is indeed of the same length as two straight tiles
01:33:03 <_dp_> Samu, though it only proves how broken it is, definitely shouldn't be that way
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02:36:37 <Samu> testing this ... formula: return minu(dx, dy) * 2 * (2 / 3) + dx + dy - minu(dx, dy) * 2;
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02:40:40 <Samu> holy crap that one is even worse omg i really fail at this
02:56:05 <Samu> here i go, trying another: return ((minu(dx, dy) * 2 * 2) / 3) + Delta(2 * minu(dx, dy), max(dx, dy));
03:19:10 <Samu> testing return ((minu(dx, dy) * 2) / 3) + Delta(2 * minu(dx, dy), dx + dy);
03:27:04 <Samu> testing return ((minu(dx, dy) * 4) / 3) + Delta(2 * minu(dx, dy), dx + dy);
03:28:24 <goodger> why not preempt greenspun's tenth law
03:40:27 <Samu> return ((minu(dx, dy) * 4) / 3) + dx + dy - 2 * minu(dx, dy);
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12:23:59 <Wolf01> Pfff, missed the right time again
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12:53:57 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: 'dx' is not a defined function.
12:55:48 <Samu> @calc 100 + 500 - ((100 + 500) - (2 * 100) / 3)
12:56:22 <Samu> @calc 100 + 500 - ((100 + 500) - ((2 * 100) / 3))
12:57:17 <Samu> @calc 600 - (600 - 200 / 3)
12:57:57 <Samu> @calc 600 + 600 - (600 - 200 / 3)
12:58:15 <Samu> @calc 600 + (600 - 600 - 200 / 3)
13:00:28 <_dp_> @calc 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 200 / 3
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13:03:28 <Samu> return Delta(dx + dy, 2 * minu(dx, dy) / 3);
13:04:58 <Alberth> it misses a few '3' at the end
13:07:27 <Samu> i think i got the profit formula i was looking for
13:08:05 <Samu> actually, i'm not even touching the profit formula, but the distance that goes into the profit calculations
13:10:22 <_dp_> Samu, your formula is min(dx, dy) / 3 + max(dx, dy) what kind of nonsense in this?
13:14:45 <_dp_> actually, nvm, it same as mine 4 * min(dx, dy) / 3 + |dx-dy| )))
13:15:42 <_dp_> though 2 * min(dx, dy) + 3 * |dx-dy| / 2 is much better one
13:18:19 <Samu> @calc 4*100/3 + |100-500|
13:18:20 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
13:18:52 <_dp_> @calc 4*100/3 + abs(100-500)
13:19:29 <Samu> nice, that seems to be what we're looking for
13:20:07 <_dp_> Samu, well, I've no idea what you're looking for
13:20:42 <_dp_> Samu, mine is a distance in same metrics that vehicle movement uses
13:21:13 <Samu> when traveling N<->S, a train takes 396 days to travel 2000 tiles
13:22:24 <Samu> but 396 days travelling on NE<->SW the train only advanced 1333 tiles
13:22:34 * andythenorth should make some Road Hog
13:23:02 <andythenorth> anyone tried Road Hog?
13:23:44 <andythenorth> is that just not making it?
13:23:59 * _dp_ thinking about random jump vehicle
13:24:06 <Alberth> done for the day, then :)
13:24:07 <andythenorth> strictly Road Hog is NoteGRVTS
13:24:14 <_dp_> sooner or later it will arrive to destination...
13:24:22 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with eGRVTS, but we need more than one road vehicle grf :P
13:24:52 <andythenorth> so few viable ones
13:26:02 <andythenorth> or not nice sprites
13:26:04 <Samu> min(dx, dy) / 3 + max(dx, dy) is the best
13:26:06 <andythenorth> or based on realism
13:26:17 <andythenorth> eGRVTS never tried realism, which is why it works
13:27:25 <_dp_> Samu, no it's not, it's reducing possible income of map
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13:33:44 <Alberth> let's just return the constant 1, always
13:34:11 <Samu> if it is the right amount
13:34:22 <Samu> i'm still checking if it fits my criteria
13:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that follows the rules of a metric :p
13:36:41 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, (int)(x != y) does I think
13:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that's not "constant 1"
13:37:24 <_dp_> ... where x and y are pairs...
13:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "almost" is very important with these things :p
13:42:09 <Samu> min(dx,dy) / 3 is still not right there
13:43:32 <_dp_> Alberth, yeah, discrete metric
13:43:35 <Samu> (min(dx,dy) / 3) / 2 is still not right there
13:44:01 <Samu> oops i mean i'll try (min(dx,dy) / 3 / 2
13:44:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: tram station behaviour…what’s the optimum length(s) for single-unit mail trams?
13:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> optimal length for trams is 1 full tile (vehicle lengths)
13:45:56 <andythenorth> I made all the freight trams 16/8
13:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> *(2 vehicle lengths)
13:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, keep it that way
13:46:31 <Alberth> no messy multi-tram loading from one tile
13:46:54 <andythenorth> mail trams aren’t that big
13:46:57 <andythenorth> or maybe they should be
13:47:04 * andythenorth looks at capacities
13:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's one of the places where gameplay > realism
13:48:27 <andythenorth> do you need a tram carrying 200 bags of mail?
13:48:31 <andythenorth> you / one / anyone
13:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> better be consistent than realistic here
13:49:11 <Alberth> as there is usually 1 tram with mail available, I take what exists :)
13:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i always thought the capacity of rail wagons is too small for mail
13:49:23 <andythenorth> trams are high density
13:49:28 <andythenorth> you want small, get a truck :)
13:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to run a passenger train with only one mail wagon
13:50:30 <andythenorth> should mailbags maintain parity with pax capacity?
13:50:35 <Samu> oops, this one is worse, i must be missing something
13:50:36 * andythenorth looking at Iron Horse
13:50:46 <Alberth> combined passenger/mail wagon was nice, but in the end, mail took too much room, and I swapped all but one combined wagon iirc
13:51:14 <andythenorth> per generation: 40 pax, 30 mail; 55 pax, 45 mail; 75 pax, 60 mail
13:51:18 <andythenorth> is Iron Horse current values
13:52:30 <Alberth> for trams, you cannot add wagons, so there, the combination makes more sense
13:52:49 <Alberth> maybe combined with larger pax only trams
13:53:03 <andythenorth> can’t combine trams ;)
13:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't really run combined trams
13:53:16 <andythenorth> can’t assign them orders
13:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> because bus/truck stops
13:53:22 <Alberth> I meant adding more trams, for pax only :)
13:53:42 <andythenorth> oh, small and large editions?
13:54:01 <andythenorth> small + fast, large + slow?
13:54:40 <Alberth> hmm, where do these combined trams stop?
13:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> small+fast only if the game models inner city speed limits
13:55:12 <Alberth> too long ago that I played with pax/mail trams :p
13:55:13 <andythenorth> yeah, speed differences don’t work for trams
13:55:25 <andythenorth> I’ve levelled all the speeds per generation
13:55:52 <Alberth> makes sense, or you force to have separate tracks for separate types of trams
13:55:58 <Samu> return 2 * min(dx, dy) / 3 + max(dx, dy);
13:58:23 <Samu> hmm i'm back to my formula, takes less space
13:58:48 <Samu> return Delta(dx + dy, minu(dx, dy) / 3);
14:00:37 <andythenorth> 16/8 box trams already exist, refittable to mail
14:00:52 <Alberth> for small towns, combined pax+mail is nice, imho
14:00:57 * andythenorth wonders what purpose specific mail trams have if same size
14:01:05 <andythenorth> Alberth: it would need a new station type ;)
14:01:28 <Alberth> right, clearly not thinking currently :p
14:01:53 <andythenorth> discovered it for myself
14:02:08 <Alberth> that helps a lot, in remembering :)
14:02:35 * andythenorth doesn’t like this pax tram sprites
14:02:39 <andythenorth> must draw new onws
14:02:49 <Alberth> purpose is simple, they're for transporting mail
14:04:27 <andythenorth> also I could tweak appearance
14:05:35 <_dp_> hm, * Some curves were shorter than other curves.
14:05:35 <_dp_> * Now they have the same length, but that means that trailing articulated parts will
14:07:02 <Samu> darn, still not quite there, but im getting closer
14:09:17 <Samu> i think im not yet accounting for the speed deficit correctly
14:16:07 <_dp_> surprisingly it's not really a bug
14:20:32 <Samu> return Delta(dx + dy, minu(dx, dy) / 2);
14:24:25 <_dp_> this commit is really confusing
14:27:40 <_dp_> savegame conversion in particular, it looks like it was made for some completely different change
14:29:58 <Samu> this is it! return Delta(dx + dy, minu(dx, dy) / 3);
14:30:05 <Samu> this is it! return Delta(dx + dy, minu(dx, dy) / 2);
14:31:29 <Samu> now road vehicles will cry
14:31:50 <Samu> but the other vehicle types shall profit the right way
14:33:45 <Samu> return min(dx, dy) / 2 + max(dx, dy)
14:33:52 <Samu> it's the same as this, right?
14:34:49 <_dp_> Samu, yes, also same at ((3 * minu(dx, dy)) / 2) + Delta(dx, dy);
14:38:26 <Samu> min(dx, dy) / 2 + max(dx, dy) - it can't be simplified more than this
14:39:11 <_dp_> Samu, depends on what you consider to be simple
14:39:30 <Samu> number of operations i think
14:40:14 <_dp_> dx < dy ? dx / 2 + dy ? dy / 2 + dx
14:42:27 <frosch123> _dp_: did you notice how off-center the (new) horizontal pipes in factorio are :)
14:43:15 <_dp_> frosch123, you mean that screenshot V posted?
14:45:28 <_dp_> frosch123, well, not rly understand why, visuals is one thing logic is another
14:45:54 <_dp_> somehow I doubt that offset has any effect on how they work
14:46:04 <Wolf01> Oh, new pups. Looks awesome, good guy V :D
14:48:38 <Wolf01> I have some problems typing these days
14:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> ("pups" is the german word for "fart")
14:49:06 <Samu> it's seems to be working, i am comparing what's in the company bank account about ~7 years later, against the profit of the speed penalty patch
14:50:05 <Samu> and it's very much the same, sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less, but very much in the same line
14:52:27 <Wolf01> Is OTTD game state deterministic? Given the same initial state you can have the same output every time?
14:52:55 <frosch123> sometimes it isn't, that's then called "desync"
14:54:47 <Alberth> only when the user also behaves deterministic :p
14:55:30 <Wolf01> I'm trying to figure out, to help some guy here, if is better to let the game running for 50 years and the take a mean of the results or just try to make a good representation of the game mechanics for an exact problem and test it in a single run (unit test)
14:57:42 <_dp_> Wolf01, I'd say single run is better. On long time spans different factors can accumulate
14:58:06 <_dp_> Wolf01, like station ratings changing industry production
14:59:42 <Alberth> I think it depends on how close you want to study the game mechanic
15:00:38 <Alberth> ie your two solutions test different things
15:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: if your "initial state" includes the random seed, all newgrfs and other settings, then yes, it *should* be deterministic
15:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and all user interactions
15:01:31 <Flygon_> You know you're too focused on old computers when you read "horizontal pipes", and think of the Copper Bars effect.
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15:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard of the copper bars effect
15:02:22 <Wolf01> Ok, so no really random stuff, random = desync
15:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, basically that's the only reason why multiplayer works
15:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> without massive bandwidth
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15:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> oh one of those low-level hack things
15:06:52 <andythenorth> supermop_: pax tram drawings? o_O ^
15:07:18 <andythenorth> Newbold, North Beach and Fairlop all need replaced wholesale
15:07:23 * andythenorth lacks inspiration
15:07:33 <andythenorth> Ladycross and Twinhills need improved
15:07:49 <Samu> left openttd - distance penalty
15:07:58 <Samu> middle openttd - speed penalty
15:08:05 <Samu> right openttd - original 1.6.1
15:08:37 <andythenorth> :o how is Road Hog 3 years old
15:09:47 <Wolf01> Did it already learn to talk?
15:11:52 <andythenorth> it learnt to generate cargo sprites
15:12:02 <andythenorth> probably the most walking-talking feature
15:13:58 <_dp_> Samu, are you comparing distance formula with your speed patch?
15:18:42 <_dp_> Samu, ah, no wonder it makes no sense then. I thought 3/2 diagonal was somehow correct one in vanilla
15:19:53 <Samu> both solutions have problems
15:19:57 <Samu> speed penalty looks ugly
15:20:06 <Samu> profit penalty ruins road vehicles
15:22:18 <_dp_> who cares about rvs, they are screwed anyway :p
15:23:38 <_dp_> some of what adf88 said is more concerning though, diagonals are indeed harder to build
15:25:25 <_dp_> mb it's good though, if they are like half-functional why should they be more profitable
15:27:41 <andythenorth> RVs are the most boss transport type :P
15:33:06 <_dp_> well, all it means for rvs is that L-shaped roads will be worse than straight ones
15:33:52 <_dp_> whics is perfectly logical for anyone who doesn't live on Manhattan
15:34:14 <andythenorth> I thought it was going to be bad, but I like the video :)
15:35:02 <Wolf01> Yup, we had some of them running around at exhibits
15:35:39 <Wolf01> BTW, I don't like much how lego is doing even more licensed sets
15:36:15 <Wolf01> One at year could be, not 4 at the same time
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16:28:08 <Samu> i gotta test road vehicle, too see the impact it has
16:38:09 <Samu> hmm the distance penalty can't be applied to road vehicle, as it was already accounted for in travel time
16:40:37 <Samu> road vehicles travel even less frames on each curve
16:42:30 <Samu> another solution, though it would look kind of retarded, would be to speed up road vehicles in relation to trains, aircraft and ships
16:42:55 <Alberth> rename to road aircraft :)
16:43:20 <Samu> 100 km/h on a road vehicle would look faster than 100 km/h on a train
16:44:53 <Alberth> well, scales are non-consistent already, what's the harm? :p
16:46:03 <Flygon> Samu: That's actually a serious problem with irl level crossing safety
16:46:12 <Flygon> IRL, a train really does look slower than a car at the same speed
16:46:32 <Flygon> This's a problem, when you consider LX's (at least, in VIC) have trains going up to 160km/h
16:52:52 <Samu> gonna try road vehicle speed up, lol
16:56:00 <Samu> inline uint GetAdvanceSpeed(uint speed) { return (this->type == VEH_ROAD) ? speed : speed * 3 / 4; }
17:00:16 <Samu> hmm nop, needs to be even faster
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17:08:12 <Samu> can't really adjust road vehicle
17:09:33 <Samu> distance penalty is only adjusted for diagonal distance
17:09:59 <Samu> if the road vehicle now goes faster on a X axis, it would be gaining more than it should
17:17:17 <Samu> need to look at transfers
17:18:29 <Samu> transfers would come up with a "virtual" tile coordinates for the cargo origin
17:27:59 <Wormnest> hi Samu ntm what´s going on
17:31:14 <Samu> Wormnest: i've been testing a few patches of mine to try to improve ship AIs
17:31:59 <Samu> but there's just some stuff that it's not possible or fair from the point of a human player
17:32:47 <Samu> question: are AIs able to build aqueducts or locks? they have the means to build suck thing?
17:33:58 <Wormnest> I can´t remember haven´t looked at AI´s in a while. You should be able to find it in the API if its possible
17:38:30 <Samu> so, i guess AIs can't build aqueducts
17:42:55 <Alberth> would be weird if it cannot build aqueducts, imho
17:43:16 <Alberth> on the other hand, anything is possible :p
17:44:02 <Alberth> haha, weird place for it :)
17:49:12 <Samu> EpicTrans apparently works fine with inflation turned on!
17:49:19 <Samu> but if it's off, it bankrupts
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17:49:54 <Samu> it asks for money at the start, usually the maximum loan it can set
17:50:02 <Samu> then it says there forever
17:50:43 <Samu> max loan increases over time, but since EpicTrans doesn't loan anymore, it won't trigger bankrupt warnings, and doesn't bankrupt
17:51:13 <Samu> typo it stays* there forever
18:00:25 <Samu> how do i get to the vehicle type that is currently transporting this cargo type that is being unloaded?
18:02:11 <Samu> I'm trying to change this line
18:02:12 <Samu> Money profit = GetTransportedGoodsIncome(accepted, DistanceManhattanProfit(source_tile, st->xy), days_in_transit, cargo_type);
18:03:14 <Samu> Money profit = GetTransportedGoodsIncome(accepted, "is not a road vehicle" ? DistanceManhattanProfit(source_tile, st->xy) : DistanceManhattan(source_tile, st->xy), days_in_transit, cargo_type);
18:03:21 <Samu> how do i get the road vehicle?
18:39:56 <_dp_> I finally got what's happening in that commit. It's fine except that it doesn't do what it claims to xD
18:40:33 <_dp_> Removing meaningless condition but not making curves the same
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18:59:03 <andythenorth> child #1 wants road-rail vehicles :P
18:59:07 <andythenorth> do we have mixins? o_O
18:59:33 <Alberth> perhaps with bigger wheels :)
19:01:04 <Alberth> or a big truck transporting an engine :p
19:02:20 * andythenorth needs 6 different mail trams
19:09:54 <Alberth> older too, by the looks of it :)
19:10:25 <Alberth> would it be a post office too?
19:11:47 <andythenorth> not so much in ottd
19:12:31 <Alberth> yeah, I could see that working irl
19:13:08 <andythenorth> fortunately our mail does not have destinations
19:15:02 <Alberth> but not much better than "other city" :)
19:15:54 <Alberth> simutrans does that with pax iirc, they walk from the closest station to their home
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19:19:11 * andythenorth considers playing ottd
19:29:20 <supermop> all mail trams same length?
19:30:08 <supermop> i got a strongbox running around in 1976 here
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19:31:38 <andythenorth> if I follow eddi’s recommendation, all mail trams will be 16/8
19:31:51 <andythenorth> so 4 x 4/8, or 2 x 8/8
19:32:11 <andythenorth> or 4/8 engine and 2 x 6/8 wagons
19:32:21 <andythenorth> I should make all pax trams 16/8 as well
19:32:59 <Alberth> hmm, I guess there should be some for wrapping file reading from tar files in openttd?
19:34:16 <supermop> no single car/single truck trams?
19:35:17 <supermop> the melb ones ive seen were more like 4 wheel rigid body i recall
19:37:33 <andythenorth> supermop: problem is getting them to 16/8 length
19:37:51 <supermop> for blocking out a tram stop?
19:38:25 <andythenorth> means 4 of them at 4/8
19:39:07 <supermop> going to look more like little trains than trains
19:39:11 <andythenorth> or 1 at 6/8 or so, and 2 5/8 wagons
19:44:45 <sim-al2> Hmmm that's interesting
19:54:46 <Samu> move all road code to rail
19:55:07 <Samu> and then make diagonal roads
19:55:52 <andythenorth> diagonal roads don’t work
19:56:10 <Samu> diagonal "rail of type road"
20:05:03 <Samu> there is a DistanceMaxPlusManhattan function, it's a bit similar to what I came up with
20:05:27 <Samu> return dx > dy ? 2 * dx + dy : 2 * dy + dx; - DistanceMaxPlusManhattan
20:05:42 <Samu> return dx < dy ? dx / 2 + dy : dx + dy / 2; - what i came up with
20:11:53 <Samu> return dx > dy ? dy / 2 + dx : dx / 2 + dy;
20:13:16 <Samu> dayum, my function is equal to DistanceMaxPlusManhattan / 2
20:13:31 <Samu> the game already had the answer
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20:16:09 <supermop> huge transformers by tram
20:16:31 <supermop> how to they lift it off the wagon with the trolley wire overhead?
20:18:47 <Samu> bah, the answer was right there, right in front of my eyes
20:19:19 <Samu> the only problem, a big one actually, is road vehicles
20:20:15 <Samu> can't believe i wasted so much time fine tuning the distance to get a suitable formula, only to find it right there already
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20:42:01 <Samu> the topic had a lot of formulas and math involved
20:42:12 <Samu> but apparently it was so simple ... strange
20:46:35 <Alberth> people that believe you can't insert an assignment to make it more readable :(
20:47:57 <Alberth> math works a lot better if you first specify the problem, and the desired properties of the solution :)
20:50:24 <Samu> adf88 posted a real problem about track costs
20:52:12 <Samu> "the death of diagonal rails"
20:52:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: remind me - the 16/8 trams is optimum to prevent station blocking?
20:52:48 <andythenorth> a stop will always be fully utilised?
20:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if 2 trams are following each other, they better distribute towards multiple loading bays at "end" stops
20:53:41 <andythenorth> means I need to rework the pax trams
20:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> can probably be slightly shorter or slightly longer
20:54:05 <Samu> i see the formulas used in the forum did not account for the speed boost advantage that vehicles get on diagonals
20:54:37 <andythenorth> I tested longer earlier in the year
20:54:56 <andythenorth> 18/8 seemed to be optimum for non-blocking in the station layouts I tested
20:55:13 <andythenorth> but I didn’t test shorter and I cba now
20:56:10 <andythenorth> (didn’t test shorter than 16/8)
21:05:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, devzone can mirror any git repo. But none of the build scripts with jenkins have been properly taught git
21:05:43 <supermop> andythenorth: any shorter than 16 and the following tram will try to squeeze into the last sliver of tram stop
21:06:01 <planetmaker> devzone can not only mirror it, it can host it natively, of course
21:06:30 <Samu> 1,41 - i've seen this value before
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21:45:00 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks :)
21:45:29 * andythenorth wonders if there’s a mercurial equivalent of github
21:45:34 <andythenorth> I didn’t find one
21:45:52 <andythenorth> bitbucket is closest, but the free / open source plan is limited to 5 users
21:46:22 <_dp_> andythenorth, doesn't github support mercurial too?
21:46:35 <andythenorth> only for import afaict
21:48:01 <andythenorth> there are hg interfaces to gihub, but not native hg support afaict
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22:08:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you're dis-satisfied with devzone?
22:08:47 <planetmaker> and yes, there's no real equivalent to gibhub for anything else than git
22:09:17 <andythenorth> I like devzone and I like redmine
22:09:35 <andythenorth> but for open source collaboration they are limited, w.r.t specifically to ease of forking + sharing patches, branches etc
22:09:53 <planetmaker> yeah, that's true
22:10:09 <planetmaker> wrt forking, that's a feature which is supported by kallithea actually
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22:10:54 <planetmaker> it's just that we do not advertize it as we don't have any unified sign-on. And it would yet be another service which requires users
22:11:12 <andythenorth> for NotRoadTypes I imported ottd repo to github, then Wolf01 forked that, and then I can merge his pull requests back to my repo
22:11:25 <andythenorth> it’s not about git vs. hg though in this case
22:11:28 <andythenorth> just low-friction
22:11:40 <planetmaker> I'm just curious :)
22:12:05 <andythenorth> I think it’s quite hard to contribute casually to most of openttd or newgrf
22:12:13 <andythenorth> sharing patches in forum seems steam-age tbh :)
22:13:45 <planetmaker> I totally agree, yes
22:13:49 <frosch123> i thought the problem is that noone maintains the old projects :)
22:13:57 <frosch123> like noone working on opengfx and zbase
22:14:00 <planetmaker> that is of course another problem :)
22:14:33 <planetmaker> But that, of course, are related problems. If the contribution barrier is high, there likelyhood of someone tinkering with it an contributing is lower
22:14:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: btw. openttd is mirrored to github officially, you could just have forked it there
22:15:05 <andythenorth> I assumed it wasn’t
22:15:14 <andythenorth> I use git.openttd.org for my check
22:15:19 <andythenorth> ‘assumptions’ :P
22:22:15 <frosch123> spoons are better for coffee
22:32:50 <planetmaker> hm, openttd docker container there on github
22:35:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is it a viable tactic to use an invisble vehicle to extend tram lengths? o_O 16/8 is more visually restrictive than I want
22:35:11 <planetmaker> well... in essence the docker concept windows-izes linux: you 'buy' the whole thing without proper update function :D
22:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no clue
22:37:54 <andythenorth> seems a bit…janky
22:38:00 <andythenorth> prone to odd results
22:39:53 <Wolf01> "Why update if it works?"
22:52:38 <_dp_> at least it will be pretty ^^
22:58:26 <SpComb> frosch123: webster.openttdcoop.org is slow to show the 2016-09-05 logs :(
22:59:15 <SpComb> frosch123: i.e. do unix UTC timestamps work for both of those fields?
23:02:16 <frosch123> yeah, i have no idea what is wrong with 2016-09-05
23:02:21 <frosch123> the log is not particulary big
23:02:26 <frosch123> and i even tried it with a smaller one
23:02:37 <frosch123> it appears to be related to only the "date" :p
23:03:04 <frosch123> the only error message i get is that it aborts some php template engine after a 30 second timeout
23:05:08 <frosch123> SpComb: i did not install the webviewer, but the timestamps are utc, and trying some of those links seems to work
23:06:31 <frosch123> the log is also broken for 2016-08-06
23:06:41 <frosch123> so maybe when months and date add up to 14 :p
23:07:09 <frosch123> july is fine though :p
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23:22:59 <SpComb> frosch123: added a redirect for openttd links
23:23:29 <Wolf01> <frosch123> so maybe when months and date add up to 14 :p <- lolled too much
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23:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> some bugs have the most absurd reasons :p
23:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i've just got the most absurd spam mail i've ever seen
23:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't even describe it with words
23:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "Mparative inferiority of the interior tracts with which they have ready communication. Below Chesapeake Bay the coast system of great river-estuaries gives way to the Sea-Island system, in which the main-land is flanked by a series of bars or sandbanks, separated from it b
23:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus."
23:43:00 <Wolf01> Lol, even passed from Italy
23:43:00 <frosch123> the "business spam" that is send to openttd is way more interesting that the normal spam i get to my private adresses
23:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it came from a telecomitalia server
23:44:32 <Wolf01> I think there's an italian zombie out there
23:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's addressed to a "Kristi Clinkscales"
23:45:12 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever that is
23:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't usually get spam mail
23:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but every now and then one gets through the cracks
23:47:22 <frosch123> well, private spam is like "buy this shit"
23:48:05 <frosch123> business spam is like "hey we are an awesome payment processor. we offer you a trial period, just send use a sample of your customer credit card numbers and what to process"
23:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the last spam is from about 2 months ago, saying i should get a job in "tax optimization"
23:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause> something about processing bitcoins and getting 20%
23:50:04 <glx> on openttd I got some "notice to appear" with a .js attached
23:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> about 4 months ago i got a "please respond to the cancellation of your contract" with a .zip attached
23:50:43 <glx> and an offer for wooden boxes from china
23:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so seems i get one every 2 months
23:51:08 <goodger> every few months I get some sort of offer for the guy who wrote chrome
23:51:32 <goodger> the last two years running I've been invited to give a lecture at the indian institute of technology at madras, in chennai
23:51:45 <glx> oh it wasn't a .js, but a .zip with .js inside
23:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you opened the zip? good lord...
23:52:06 <goodger> not sure how much confidence we should have in said institution if they can't distinguish a formerly world-leading software engineer from a randomer from cornwall
23:52:12 <glx> well .txt.js or something
23:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, obviously...
23:52:54 <glx> 7zip doesn't run anything from inside the zip
23:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: it could be a 42.zip or something :p
23:53:54 <glx> I even opened the script in an editor to check what it looked like
23:54:50 <glx> full of obfuscation, not really human readable
23:56:53 <frosch123> i liked the notice that "a parcel could not be delivered" :)
23:57:03 <frosch123> i would also not know how to ship to openttd
23:57:30 <glx> parcel delivery spam is more usual on phone here
23:57:54 <Samu> everyone is talking about sqrt(2) in the topic about profit
23:58:25 <glx> but I fail to understand how people can call back on those
23:58:42 <Samu> got to make a test about using sqrt(2)
23:59:57 <Samu> maybe I am wrong (as always)
continue to next day ⏵
