IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-08-27
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00:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it randomly applies factors of 1.5 or 0.75 at weird places
00:01:02 <_dp_> I remember seeing some dev saying it's 192 units for straight and 256 for diagonal
00:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's the other way around
00:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but you also have weird stretching and shrinking effects
00:02:31 <_dp_> apparenly 256 for 2 diagonal bits
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00:03:48 <_dp_> true, its size increases differently, but that's of no importance for payments
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00:13:05 <Samu> or 0.66, depending on the point of view
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00:35:32 <_dp_> return (this->direction & 1) ? 192 : 256;
00:36:21 <_dp_> 256 is "distance" of diagonal move which is 2 times longer in manhattan distance
00:39:39 <_dp_> somehow this doesn't add up... ok, back to code)
00:49:36 <Samu> i just discovered how towns build bridges
00:50:13 <Samu> well, at least at one of the sides
00:50:14 <_dp_> like any other piece of road
00:51:07 <Samu> slope configuration on the destination side doesn't matter :( must change that
00:51:30 <Samu> slope configuration on the source side, I am not entirely sure, must investigate it further
00:52:44 <Samu> (IsValidTile(bridge_tile) && IsWaterTile(bridge_tile)); - this check isn't sufficient
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00:54:50 <_dp_> ok, that formula is wrong, should be 256 * min(dx, dy) + 192 * |dx-dy|
00:56:28 <_dp_> so (4 * min(dx, dy) + 3 * |dx-dy|) / 4
00:57:11 <_dp_> (4 * min(dx, dy) + 3 * |dx-dy|) / 3
00:57:25 <Samu> what are you trying to do _dp_?
00:57:49 <_dp_> more fair payment calculation
00:58:42 <Samu> oh, for aircraft going on vertical/horizontal ?
00:59:19 <_dp_> or, rather, instead of rv (as it is currently) make it fair for all other vehicle types
01:00:17 <Samu> i'm not sure, seems payment rate could be abused by transfering cargo? I was told that
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01:01:09 <_dp_> it can be abused if it's calculated differenly for different vehicle types
01:01:42 <Samu> i would consider "virtual" vehicle speed adjustment
01:04:20 <Samu> also, don't forget ships
01:04:30 <Samu> they move similar to trains
01:05:48 <Samu> as for the formula, uhm... i'm really not sure
01:06:15 <Samu> the vehicles going on those directions seem to be going 1.5x faster
01:07:39 <Samu> how to factor this speed bonus in the income formula as a penalty?
01:09:00 <Samu> I wasn't really able to check the speed bonus for aircraft tough due to the different airports and place landing/departing delays
01:09:11 <Samu> i got an approximation between 1.42x to 1.50x
01:09:39 <Samu> plane* landing/departing delays
01:12:56 <Samu> for ships and trains, I really didn't get 1.50x, I got 1.496xxxx and 1.495xxxx, they still have to accelerate and turn around, tested with a distance of xy=100,100 tiles between stations
01:17:21 <_dp_> acceleration doesn't matter, I'm just using same metrics as openttd does for moving vehicles
01:22:08 <Samu> looks like I don't know what a halftile is after all
01:24:18 <Samu> IsSlopeWithOneCornerRaised
01:24:28 <Samu> maybe this is what I'm looking for
01:26:54 <Samu> /* don't build a bridge if the tile on the other side has only one corner raised*/ if (IsSlopeWithOneCornerRaised(GetTileSlope(bridge_tile))) return false;
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01:38:46 <Samu> no more town bridges on slopes with one corner raised
01:39:09 <Samu> now houses, how do i deal with them?
01:39:22 <Samu> want to give them the same treatment
01:39:28 <Samu> no houses on slopes with one corner raised
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02:39:56 <Samu_> if (IsSlopeWithOneCornerRaised(slope) && IsCoastTile(tile)) return false;
02:40:30 <Samu_> towns won't build bridges only on coastal tiles
02:40:40 <Samu_> if they have 1 corner raised
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03:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <_dp_> return (this->direction & 1) ? 192 : 256; <-- this is the size of one "step" on the map, there are 16 steps per tile along the axis, and 8 steps per (half-)tile along the diagonals
03:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so if min(dx,dy) is the diagonal part of the travel, that gives you the number of half-tiles for the diagonal, and |dx-dy| is the straight bit of the travel, which gives you full tiles along the axis
03:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there might also be an off-by-one error, because you can't travel through the corner of a tile
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12:27:18 <frosch123> is there a country where people eat cats?
12:36:33 <Flygon> And going by the artwork, certain subsets of the Globe
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12:47:43 <frosch123> looks like they are most popular in south america
12:47:43 * andythenorth could use layered vehicle sprites to animate paddle steamer paddles
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12:48:17 <andythenorth> How many layers? o_O
12:48:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: you could do that anyway with regular sprites
12:48:43 <frosch123> you only gain benefits when combining sprites using different criteria
12:48:52 <frosch123> so that you get combinations of different things
12:48:54 <andythenorth> I'd have to draw all the frames
12:49:14 <frosch123> andythenorth: in the prototype i limited it to 4 layers. but it's an completely arbitary choice
12:49:16 <andythenorth> With stop, start, loaded etc :p
12:50:40 <frosch123> as in: the performance of 4 layer vehicles is equaly bad as 4-part articulated vehicles
12:51:24 <andythenorth> 4 is plenty for what I have in mind
12:51:25 <frosch123> well, atualy it is better, since articulated vehicles have more callbacks for non-graphical things
12:52:03 <andythenorth> They're just sprite layers, not fake vehicles, right?
12:53:18 <frosch123> yes, same bounding box
12:53:30 <frosch123> just like industries or houses
12:53:51 <frosch123> except that i skipped the positioning part, since that is quite pointless with orientations
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12:54:34 <andythenorth> So no abusing them for multi-cargo ships :D
12:55:25 <frosch123> register 100 returns whether there are more layers, and whether to use a specific recolor sprite
12:56:09 <Alberth> spoiling all the newgrf builders with free layers :)
13:08:14 * andythenorth wonders if multi-cargo ships would be BAD FEATURE
13:10:02 <andythenorth> also horsepower property for ships
13:10:45 <andythenorth> add a drag vector (prevailing current) to each tile
13:11:16 <andythenorth> higher-powered ships can reach top speed, lower powered cannot
13:11:45 <andythenorth> hovercraft get to cheat, we'd need a prop for that :p
13:12:44 <andythenorth> Ships going in same direction as current go faster, it's direct analogy to slope for train physics :)
13:14:08 <Alberth> if you make the current so strong the ship can't move against it, you'll run into trouble
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13:14:59 <Alberth> not sure you need horsepower
13:15:04 <andythenorth> Same as train stuck on a slope
13:15:07 <Alberth> just add/subtract some speed
13:15:36 <andythenorth> Looking for ways to add progression of stats for ships
13:16:00 <Alberth> add more random numbers :p
13:16:49 <andythenorth> if I provide fewer generations, progresion matters barely at all
13:17:13 <andythenorth> But then sprites aren't realisms per date
13:17:35 <andythenorth> otoh, less drawing
13:17:59 <Alberth> realism is doomed anyway, imho
13:18:04 <andythenorth> No new ships after 1960 or so...acceptable?
13:18:20 <andythenorth> All ships are boss from 1960 onwards
13:18:27 <frosch123> how about "dry ships"?
13:18:37 <frosch123> use the train mechanics and add ship sprites
13:18:47 <andythenorth> 1860, 1910, 1960
13:18:58 <Alberth> 100 year sounds ok-ish to me
13:19:06 <Alberth> except a bit early for me :)
13:19:20 <andythenorth> I rarely play past 2000 or so
13:19:22 <Alberth> but even then, I tend to end the game in the '80s
13:20:07 <andythenorth> Vehicle technology pretty much topped out by 1980s
13:20:08 <Alberth> if you want another generation, do some hover things, or aqua-planing ships
13:20:27 <andythenorth> Everything is incremental now irl, no big steps forward
13:23:06 <Alberth> not sure how that is relevant
13:23:31 <Alberth> make disruptive ship technology :p
13:24:01 <Alberth> can't really compete on speed though
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13:39:38 <andythenorth> Apple, in their bloody wisdom, apparently won't allow an app to maintain a connection for more than 10 mins on iOS
13:39:46 <andythenorth> Hence disconnects :x
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16:06:21 <goodger> does it have multitasking yet?
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17:15:44 <frosch123> i think andy is drowning
17:15:59 <frosch123> every now and then he reaches the surface to shortly call for a hips
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18:08:55 <argoneus> good evening train friends
18:10:14 <argoneus> bicycles can go away
18:10:32 <goodger> in-tunnel-station-demanding colleagues
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18:30:20 <andythenorth> Ach ships really don't sail around without lids on
18:30:34 <andythenorth> Unless someone can find photos to contrary :p
18:36:02 <frosch123> pile the cargo on deck
18:36:46 <andythenorth> For piece goods yes
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18:38:50 <Alberth> do it like the wagons, just show the top?
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18:43:04 <Alberth> I have always disabled the wave animation, so it's really calm water :)
18:43:16 * andythenorth learning about ships
18:43:53 <andythenorth> Despite that modern ships look same (house at back, one big hold), they are not the same
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18:44:01 <andythenorth> Depending on intended use
18:44:19 <andythenorth> Bulk, piece goods etc have different design and equipment
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18:46:46 * andythenorth assumed all modern ships had one big rectangle hold, with 100% opening top
18:47:02 <andythenorth> Not so apparently
18:47:27 * andythenorth wasted childhood on trains and trucks, not ships :p
18:47:45 <Alberth> new country to discover :)
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18:51:28 <Alberth> I think Clockworker is trying to beat you in number of joins and disconnects :)
18:51:50 <Clockworker> my phone company decided to have fun on my expense today
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18:52:23 <Alberth> ah well, let's hope it's better tomorrow
18:53:12 <andythenorth> I will be disconnected in a couple of minutes
18:54:55 <Alberth> maybe apple tries to conserve power or so?
18:55:37 <andythenorth> Not sure about flatbed ships :p
18:56:33 <Alberth> maybe add some decorative elements that you can vary?
18:56:55 <Alberth> but a ship is much lower
18:57:40 <Alberth> but both fish and squid did that quite nicely, imho
18:57:55 <Alberth> or am I missing something?
19:00:32 <andythenorth> There are flat-deck barges
19:03:06 <Alberth> too magic what they contain :)
19:04:06 <andythenorth> They're like a big floating steel box, cargo just goes on top
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19:34:08 <supermop> not sure i'd accept delivery of transformer bathed in salt spray
19:35:44 <Alberth> you should have considered that before adding the "must be nice to look at during transport" clause to the contract
19:36:17 <Alberth> what's a little salt compared with all that PR for your company?
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19:36:44 <supermop> "do not wrap transformer in protective material. I want to see all the neat details and bits while it's on the boat"
19:37:43 <Alberth> the boat is inland non-salt water, and the transformer is supposed to be resistent against rain, as it's standing outside? :)
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