IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-08-14
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02:26:03 <Samu> rythorn airline ai reached 2051
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02:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, how do i edit a .lnk file in wine?
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10:08:23 <Samu> 1993, 1967, 1982, 2006, 1981, 1954, 2047, 1988
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10:57:44 <andythenorth> extra toolbar sprites would go in media/extra_grf/openttdgui.png?
10:57:53 <andythenorth> or in objs/[same]
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11:01:53 <frosch123> objs/ is generated i guess
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11:19:22 <idl0r> hey guys, is there some kind of howto for the newgrf stuff? there's so many separate packages and i'm not sure which one i'd need to have anything replaced it so far
11:44:23 <idl0r> hm, ok, seems to be not that easy :(
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11:53:06 <Wolf01> I like getting up with a bad headache, it adds some wtf to the life
11:53:46 <Wolf01> Especially when it's not a hangover
11:54:10 <Alberth> hmm, that eliminates a simple way to fix your preference :p
11:55:02 <Wolf01> That's why it adds the wtf
11:57:34 <Samu> //I have better things to do than changing HasNext to IsEnd all over my code because OpenTTD devs //suddenly decided that former one is somehow better (IMHO it is worse due to more complex contruction - it requires !)
11:57:41 <Alberth> not sleeping long enough might work
11:58:35 <Samu> AIAI crashes because there's something wrong when its listing his vehicles
11:58:59 <Samu> what is HasNext and IsEnd?
11:59:24 <Alberth> functions to detect end of a list
11:59:51 <Alberth> no idea how they are different, but apparently, they are, and the author of that AI wasn't too hapy about it
12:00:40 <Samu> AIVehicleList.HasNext <-
12:01:02 <Samu> i'm unsure where the error is
12:01:33 <Samu> the ai wants to sell unprofitable vehicles, it seems there's 46 to sell
12:01:39 <Samu> on the 26th one it crashed
12:02:11 <Samu> i set airplanes not to crash
12:02:19 <Samu> i set permanent airports
12:02:35 <Alberth> I don't know where the error is either
12:02:35 <Samu> i set permanent vehicle models
12:03:05 <Alberth> but it's in the details with how the list is handled, perhaps
12:03:39 <Samu> i dunno how to debug this
12:04:05 <Samu> 46 should be sold, on the 22th it crashed, sorry, not 26th
12:04:06 <Alberth> debugging is useless at this time
12:04:24 <Alberth> it uses HasNext, which for some reason is not the solution that should be used
12:04:49 <Alberth> so that's what needs to be changed first, before you can even decide whether a bug exists at all
12:05:12 <Alberth> apparently the author has no time to do that, as he stated
12:06:05 <Samu> it's a common error :( wish i could fix it
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12:25:31 <Samu> for (local vehicle_id = vehicle_list.Begin(); vehicle_list.HasNext(); vehicle_id = vehicle_list.Next()) {
12:27:35 <Samu> if(AIVehicle.IsValidVehicle(vehicle_id)) if(AIAI.sellVehicle(vehicle_id, "unprofitable")) counter++;
12:27:49 <Samu> the vehicle is valid, then he tries AIAI.sellVehicle
12:28:04 <Samu> but suddenly it's invalid
12:32:18 <Wolf01> There's a nice problem with looping through a list which is changing, the implementation is really wrong
12:33:46 <Wolf01> I usually put indexes in another list and then remove the items from the first list looping the indexes list
12:34:41 <Alberth> hmm, indexes tend to change when you change a list :p
12:34:55 <Alberth> I tend to make a new list with elements I want to keep
12:35:12 <Alberth> and replace the old list by the new one
12:35:56 <Wolf01> Good implementation, but if you have references to object usually is a problem
12:36:26 <Wolf01> Btw, isn't there a foreach construct? It should automatically handle the removing of items
12:37:08 <Wolf01> (not every language does, but it has few problems than a plain for)
12:37:22 <Samu> function AIAI::sellVehicle(vehicle_id, why) { bla; bla; AIVehicle.SetName(vehicle_id, "for sell " + why); bla; }
12:37:31 <Samu> when it sets the name the vehicle_id is invalid
12:40:02 <Samu> i don't understand this file
12:40:41 <Samu> AIVehicle.SetName_ <- AIVehicle.SetName AIVehicle.SetName <- function (vehicle_id, string) { if(!AIVehicle.IsValidVehicle(vehicle_id)) { abort("Invalid vehicle " + vehicle_id); }
12:41:20 <Samu> and then AIAI aborts with a crash
12:42:46 <Alberth> there is a foreach-like construct, don't know if it handles removal too
12:43:59 <Alberth> Samu: it suggests the vehicle doesn't exist at the time of the call, maybe it already sold it?
12:45:28 <Samu> i disabled airplanes crashes
12:45:47 <Samu> only AI can sell it, not any external event
12:46:00 <Alberth> Wolf01: references to an object are not a problem, the object is not placed inside the list, the list has only a reference, so copying it over to another list does not move the object
12:46:53 <Alberth> just like Java and Python (and presumably C#)
12:46:54 <Samu> vehicle_id doesn't match the aircraft number
12:47:09 <Samu> it's some internal number
12:47:23 <Samu> he had 800 aircraft if i remember
12:48:48 <Alberth> so check that after selling a vehicle, its id is really not in the list any more
12:49:04 <Alberth> if it is, the list update done during selling is broken
12:49:38 <Wolf01> Alberth, I did that with my old render list, to remove the objects which were already rendered, I lost the reference of the entire list, not the objects inside the list
12:51:52 <Alberth> some protection against in-place modification I guess
12:53:14 <Alberth> a bad case of "we don't care what you do, but you're not going to crash our VM" :p
12:53:45 <Wolf01> listA.foreach(i => { if (i.rendered == false) listB.add(i); }); listA = listB; threw "wtf are you doing exception"
12:54:38 <Samu> AIVehicleList.HasNext <- function() { return !this.IsEnd(); //I have better things to do than changing HasNext to IsEnd all over my code because OpenTTD devs //suddenly decided that former one is somehow better (IMHO it is worse due to more complex contruction - it requires !) }
12:55:24 <Samu> does it change AIVehicleList.HasNext to AIVehicleList.!IsEnd()
12:55:45 <Alberth> It adds a "HasNext" function, that does "!this.IsEnd()"
12:57:10 <Alberth> but my guess is that the old HasNext is not the same as !this.IsEnd()
12:57:28 <Alberth> perhaps almost the same, but not exactly
12:58:52 <Alberth> it may not make a difference in this case though
13:01:41 <Samu> how does that vehicle_id counter works?
13:03:54 <Samu> must find the way it builds the list
13:08:28 <Samu> for (local vehicle_id = vehicle_list.Begin(); vehicle_list.HasNext(); vehicle_id = vehicle_list.Next())
13:09:09 <Samu> for (local vehicle_id = vehicle_list.Begin(); vehicle_list.!this.IsEnd(); vehicle_id = vehicle_list.Next())
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14:11:15 <idl0r> is it planned to make newgrf/32bit graphics default one day?
14:30:31 <MonkeyDrone> idl0r: i doubt it. There is no 'official' 32bpp graphics for the game yet.
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15:46:32 <Samu> syntrans has trouble managing airport capacity, there's too many aircraft waiting in depots and flying around the airports
15:46:51 <Samu> profits are diminishing, let's see if he can survive
15:49:29 <Samu> 1400 out of 2800 are profiting
15:49:36 <Samu> that's a ~50% profit ratio
15:49:47 <Samu> quite bad in comparison with the other ais
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16:35:36 <Wolf01> Back to work, I should try to understand why the station buttons don't work as intended
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16:37:31 <Wolf01> But even before that, why it disables the tunnel button and makes the bridge building the tunnel o_O
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16:38:24 <ST2> you can call it an easter egg feature ;)
16:43:16 <Wolf01> Who is in charge for the gui?
16:43:43 <Wolf01> This stuff changed a lot since transparency toolbar
16:45:09 <Alberth> toolbar is quite magic iirc :)
16:45:30 <Alberth> I didn't convert it, I think
17:00:55 <Wolf01> Also, what are the right steps to add new source files to the project?
17:06:04 <frosch123> run projects/generate
17:11:22 <Wolf01> Ok, it seem to work now
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17:37:29 <Wolf01> Since I'm tired to define every time the includes and libraries each time I regenerate the projects, where could I set them? It suggests a user project file, which is there, but I don't really know how to edit it
17:40:14 <Wolf01> Meh... The .user file is a legacy feature and we recommend that you delete it in order to keep properties properly grouped according to configuration/platform.
17:40:33 <Wolf01> Why does it suggest to use it then?
17:44:10 <Alberth> the legacy explanation does not point what to do instead?
17:44:34 <Wolf01> Yes, the project directories to keep all in one place
17:45:06 <Alberth> silly system to assume it can decide your project layout :p
17:46:00 <andythenorth> so for light rail toolbar icon, I thought maybe tracks, on a grey background?
17:46:06 <Wolf01> I should put the OTTD_essentials in the VC directories
17:46:34 <Wolf01> A double set of tracks?
17:47:06 <Wolf01> Btw, the environment variable will get overwritten by VC, so it's no use
17:47:23 <Wolf01> I could add new ones, but still the same problem
17:47:50 <andythenorth> double tracks is good point
17:48:34 * andythenorth had better look how openttd.grf is made
17:49:48 <Wolf01> VS uses these 2 variables: VC_IncludePath and VC_LibraryPath_x86
17:52:25 <andythenorth> are the libpng color profile warnings always there for openttd.grf?
17:52:29 <andythenorth> or did I just cause them?
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17:57:21 <andythenorth> so the numbers in openttdgui.png aren’t the sprite number
17:58:39 * andythenorth counts, using fingers
18:00:49 <Wolf01> Do you have enough of them?
18:01:13 <Wolf01> Ok, I fixed the toolbar
18:01:21 <Wolf01> Now the station orientation picker
18:02:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: OPENTTD_SPRITE_COUNT <- that is all you need to know
18:02:19 <frosch123> static const SpriteID SPR_IMG_CARGOFLOW = SPR_OPENTTD_BASE + 174; <- just add new sprites after that
18:02:26 <andythenorth> yeah I found that :)
18:02:29 <andythenorth> the nfo was fine
18:03:04 <andythenorth> but cargo flow is image 177 on the spritesheet
18:03:16 <andythenorth> I know why they don’t match, was just confusing for a moment
18:06:33 * andythenorth is now an openttd programmer :P
18:09:15 <andythenorth> also can’t count :P
18:09:25 <andythenorth> been obiwan both sides of the sprite I want
18:12:37 <Alberth> as devloploper, you shouldn't count yourself, you tell your computer to do that instead
18:13:16 <andythenorth> but I have to tell it what number to count to :P
18:13:36 <Wolf01> C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\8.1\Include\shared\fttypes.h(38): error C4430: missing type specifier - int assumed. Note: C++ does not support default-int (compiling source file ..\src\crashlog.cpp)
18:14:36 <Wolf01> Changed an enum value and recompiled, 40000 errors
18:14:45 <Wolf01> Not even related to OTTD
18:15:33 <Alberth> so likely, it fails to understand your new enum :p
18:15:45 <frosch123> Wolf01: missing semicolon?
18:15:57 <frosch123> anyway, the error is about some function not having a return type
18:15:58 <Alberth> and then runs off into nowhere
18:16:01 <Wolf01> Maybe, but no errors in the ide
18:16:03 <frosch123> as in "void" missing or something
18:16:46 <Alberth> likely, the IDE uses the same misguided compiler diagnostics :p
18:16:52 <frosch123> well, before ansi-c from 89, there was this silly thing called "c", where everything was int
18:17:02 <andythenorth> hmm, can’t get my sprite to show anything except transparent
18:22:13 <frosch123> well, if c++ was a less ambiguous language, the compiler would be able to give a better error
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18:22:28 <frosch123> your best choice is to look for unbalanced { } and ;
18:23:39 <Wolf01> I did not touch anything on the sources
18:23:48 <Wolf01> It compiled before the last change
18:24:07 <Wolf01> I only added " = 6" to an enum value
18:24:22 <Wolf01> Between the name and the comma
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18:32:27 <Wolf01> Ok, shit happened on freetype
18:33:46 <Samu> i hate it when i can't run away from heroes without diyng
18:33:56 <Samu> heroes that attack while moving
18:34:09 <Samu> stupid design, but whatever... nobody cares here
18:41:07 <andythenorth> probably too contrasty
18:41:56 <Wolf01> Put a wider road under it
18:42:15 <andythenorth> has to be 16px to match other toolbar sprites
18:42:48 <V453000> is that some secret tram gui button or ?
18:43:53 <andythenorth> it’s over-lit imho
18:44:45 <Alberth> normal rail compensates with the dark wood
18:57:40 <frosch123> you can see two things in that icon
18:57:48 <frosch123> either it is two tracks next to each other
18:58:00 <frosch123> or it is one track "sunken" into the road
18:58:20 <frosch123> but for the latter the the spacing does not quite work
18:59:48 <andythenorth> of the four so far, which is the best?
19:00:39 <frosch123> to me all of them look like one track instead of two
19:01:04 <Samu> oh, adding a 5th vehicle type? cool :o
19:01:04 <andythenorth> yes, I can see that too
19:01:32 <frosch123> i am not sure, whether to avoid or embrace that :)
19:01:57 <andythenorth> my first idea was to show one set of rails only
19:02:02 <andythenorth> at the size of train tracks
19:02:17 <andythenorth> but that’s not what you actually build
19:03:08 <Wolf01> If you draw narrow tracks?
19:06:31 <Wolf01> The 5 is nice, but I'm not a fan of such rounded angles
19:06:45 <andythenorth> it’s too train-like, I’ll adjust
19:06:50 <andythenorth> frosch123: that kind of works also
19:07:14 <andythenorth> so it’s 5 (single track) or 2f (two narrow tracks)
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19:07:32 <frosch123> try 5 with the road-icon outline
19:07:36 <Wolf01> 5 with narrow tracks and more squared?
19:11:07 <andythenorth> probably the road is a bit dark
19:12:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it works well with only one track
19:12:44 <andythenorth> I am thinking same
19:12:56 <andythenorth> it’s visually stronger, but I am going to try modifying 2f
19:13:15 <andythenorth> but with 2 small tracks, it still looks like one track :P
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19:25:50 <andythenorth> was too lit before
19:25:56 <andythenorth> road icon is not very lit
19:28:43 <andythenorth> are the contents of bin/ and media/ supposed to be under vcs or not?
19:28:52 * andythenorth might need to edit .gitignore
19:29:37 <andythenorth> the gitignore for this is….detailed
19:29:41 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, everything that is not created by make should be in the repo
19:29:49 <Samu> i think i found a bug in "Detailed performance rating" window. The amount of money in the bank says £2,147 M, but NoNoCAB already has £3,2 M
19:30:13 <andythenorth> ^ legit to commit, or not ?
19:30:18 <frosch123> there is an "official" .gitignore in ottd svn
19:30:20 <frosch123> does that not work?
19:30:37 <andythenorth> that’s what we’re figuring out :)
19:33:50 <Samu> flyspray doesn't let me select 1.6.1
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19:37:31 <V453000> omg the trains are getting cuter every minute
19:38:31 <Wolf01> Regenerating the projects worked O_O
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19:45:43 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I pushed the icon to the dev branch
19:46:03 <andythenorth> I will improve it more in future, need to see it in game for a while
19:47:16 <Wolf01> Btw, you could have made it large as the rail one
19:47:34 <andythenorth> it’s same dimensions
19:47:52 <Wolf01> Rail one is 4px larger
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20:09:49 <Wolf01> Sister's diner is the best one :D
20:10:03 <Wolf01> At least she cooks japanese food
20:10:47 <Wolf01> (or the best imitation we can achieve with our ingredients)
20:11:08 <Wolf01> Now, back on the station picker :|
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20:13:53 <Wolf01> The widgets seem to work right, but the command is wrong, maybe it's trying to build road bays instead of drive-throught stops
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20:34:53 <Wolf01> I really don't understand how widgets are used in the gui, there's an enum with the widgets and seem to be used for the positions, but then the widget tree introduces some panels and the position are all changed
20:35:37 <Wolf01> So, if I want to lower a widget, how can I get the right widget index?
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20:39:02 <Alberth> enum only lists the widgets that exist, the tree decides positions etc
20:40:05 <Wolf01> this->LowerWidget(_road_station_picker_orientation + WID_BLRS_STATION_X); so taking this as example, I don't really know where the WID_BLRS_STATION_X is placed
20:41:35 <Wolf01> I think I could safely remove the orientation var, as the trams only have it set as DIAGDIR_END
20:41:40 <Alberth> there is a WID_BLRS_STATION_X and a WID_BLRS_STATION_Y after it
20:42:02 <Alberth> the _road_station_picker_orientation is 0/1, so it selects one of the widgets
20:42:44 <Alberth> just just provide the numeric value in the widget enum
20:43:01 <Alberth> tree handles position and dirtying etc
20:43:10 <Wolf01> At least at the gui initialization it is, the original check was if (_cur_roadtype == ROADTYPE_TRAM && _road_station_picker_orientation < DIAGDIR_END) {
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20:43:54 <Alberth> condition for lowering?
20:44:45 <Wolf01> That was used to reset the orientation on opening the tram station gui
20:45:10 <Wolf01> Because the road could have another orientation, but on tram stations those are disabled
20:45:33 <andythenorth> +1 to removing the redundant tram stops
20:45:40 <andythenorth> can’t build drive-in
20:45:54 <Wolf01> Already removed, that's why it gives me headache
20:46:45 <andythenorth> also the rail icon *is* bigger :(
20:47:14 <Wolf01> _road_station_picker_orientation = (DiagDirection)(widget - WID_BLRS_STATION_X); <- then it does this when changing the orientation, but the initialization was wrong
20:47:34 <Wolf01> It should be initialized to 0 and not DIAGDIR_END
20:49:23 <Wolf01> The problem is that it gets confusing, as "1" is DIAGDIR_SE (even "0" is DIAGDIR_NE)
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20:50:19 <Wolf01> This mean that DIAGDIR is not the right enum to use in this case
20:50:19 <Alberth> src/widgets/road_widget.h is the list widgets
20:50:49 <Alberth> WID_BROS_STATION_NE + 4 == WID_BROS_STATION_X
20:51:43 <Wolf01> I should use Axis in this case
20:51:58 <Alberth> yeah, it's not nice this way :)
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20:56:15 <Wolf01> And now the command...
20:58:21 <Alberth> you have a widget for x axis and y axis and one must be lowered?
20:59:12 <andythenorth> Wolf01: pushed a new icon
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21:00:32 <Alberth> this->SetWidgetLowered(X_AXIS_WIDGET, direction == X_AXIS); or so
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21:01:02 <Alberth> this->SetWidgetLoweredState(X_AXIS_WIDGET, direction == X_AXIS);
21:01:19 <Wolf01> Oh, I just changed the enum from DiagDir to Axis and it worked with no changes at all
21:01:53 <Wolf01> VpStartPlaceSizing(tile, VPM_X_AND_Y_LIMITED, DDSP_BUILD_BUSSTOP); then from where he gets that it's a drive-throught?
21:04:06 <Alberth> perhaps in the callbak check?
21:05:07 <andythenorth> hmm tram icon bigger than road icon
21:05:12 <andythenorth> not sure that’s working
21:05:36 <Wolf01> Make the road icon larger
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21:08:16 <Alberth> OnPlaceDrag is probably called when moving, so you can update rendering
21:08:40 <Alberth> OnPlaceMouseUp is placement, by the looks of it
21:11:04 <Wolf01> It always shows the error message CMD_MSG(_ltrail_type_info.err_build_station[ROADSTOP_BUS])
21:12:37 <Wolf01> PlaceLtRailStop(start_tile, end_tile, (_ctrl_pressed << 5) | RoadTypeToRoadTypes(_cur_ltrailtype) << 2 | ROADSTOP_BUS, CMD_BUILD_ROAD_STOP | CMD_MSG(_ltrail_type_info.err_build_station[ROADSTOP_BUS]));
21:12:47 <Wolf01> This should be the command
21:13:14 <Wolf01> I was debugging inside the PlaceLtRailStop function and it looked everything ok
21:15:29 <Wolf01> Forcing the drive-through
21:16:30 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I can’t change the original TTD road icon :o :)
21:16:34 <andythenorth> that would be shocking
21:22:18 <Wolf01> Ok, committed the fixes, I think you must regenerate the project files
21:23:58 <Wolf01> Mmmh, why was this file selected too?
21:24:18 <Wolf01> I committed something to trunk which I shouldn't have
21:24:33 <Wolf01> Maybe was one of the patching attempts
21:27:09 <andythenorth> just revert the commit
21:27:21 <andythenorth> or if it’s a file, just remove the file
21:27:53 <andythenorth> git reverts are pretty good
21:28:03 <andythenorth> although reverting a merge has…side effects :P
21:28:41 <Wolf01> Not that it breaks anything, but I would like to not have it, it's the refactoring of the magic numbers
21:29:32 <Wolf01> Do devs see what are we doing here?
21:30:22 <andythenorth> they can see commit history
21:30:57 <andythenorth> if the history is complicated, I would just reverse patch out the changes (get the diff, and reverse it)
21:31:12 <andythenorth> if the history is simple, git revert the commit where it came in, adjust the commit, and push again
21:31:30 <Wolf01> Yes reverted many changes on my repositories :P
21:32:16 <Wolf01> Ok, this time I tried even with hotkeys, it *should* work
21:33:07 <Wolf01> The icons of the stations are still wrong, but one thing at time
21:35:58 <Wolf01> The only thing I found about drawing the station picker is where is not drawing the widgets
21:36:09 <Wolf01> if (!IsInsideMM(widget, WID_BLRS_STATION_X, WID_BLRS_STATION_Y + 1)) return;
21:36:54 <Wolf01> Then there's station coverage and supply/accepts
21:37:48 * andythenorth trying to pull request with github
21:40:33 * andythenorth having hate for github
21:44:05 <andythenorth> I have some stuff like that from messing with catenary drawing
21:45:27 <Wolf01> Eh, if only I could find the drawing code, I bet it's in some other source file
21:45:34 <andythenorth> merged wolf repo gui to andy repo dev branch
21:45:40 <andythenorth> road_cmd probably
21:45:58 <andythenorth> I spend most of my ottd code time in some _cmd file
21:46:18 <andythenorth> ‘8’ no longer asserts :D
21:46:32 <andythenorth> I need to redraw ‘build tunnel’ icon
21:46:42 <andythenorth> also build road stop icons
21:47:05 <Wolf01> Yes, now it's time to effectively split the RoadType, so I'll spend the rest of my life there too
21:49:34 <andythenorth> something not right with hotkey
21:50:02 <andythenorth> do we need ‘autoltrail’?
21:50:24 <Wolf01> It's a new section, should start with [ltrail]
21:50:40 <Wolf01> Just assign "A" to that too
21:50:55 <andythenorth> I have a GLOBAL+CTRL+A
21:51:05 <andythenorth> but it’s opening autoroad
21:51:57 <Wolf01> For me it always opens the rail toolbar
21:52:17 <Wolf01> Also, the hotkeys keys are all wrong
21:52:54 <Wolf01> Ok, now they aren't, removing them from the cfg regenerated the names
21:54:00 <Wolf01> Ouch, I forgot to change "goods_station" to "freight_station"
21:55:12 <andythenorth> build_ltrail works fine
21:55:20 <andythenorth> does autoroad hotkey need splitting?
21:55:53 <Wolf01> It's in its own section
21:57:28 * andythenorth must make dinner :)
21:58:18 <Wolf01> If you set global+a to all the 3, it seem to work right, but it always opens the road toolbar if no toolbar is open
21:59:05 <Wolf01> But I think I'm done for this evening
21:59:54 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I am away from computer for a couple of weeks soon
22:00:28 <V453000> btw /me is making rather detailed models of trains :>
22:01:37 <V453000> colours are all messed up, working on meshes atm
22:01:54 <V453000> basically just the connecting part is good, anad the windows
22:01:59 <andythenorth> colours schmolors
22:02:06 <andythenorth> lights are badass
22:02:17 <V453000> yeah but need something extra
22:02:24 <andythenorth> coupling is absolutely awesome
22:02:42 <andythenorth> you don’t need buffers with knuckle coupler :P
22:02:47 <V453000> it took me every evening since we last talked. :D
22:03:08 <V453000> the buffers are there basically for details at the bottom
22:03:16 <V453000> had no clue about that though XD makes sense however.
22:03:40 <andythenorth> full Janney coupler detail :P
22:04:03 <V453000> it probably wouldn't work as some of the proportions are blown out to be nice
22:05:15 <V453000> one of the pain is how far inside the wheels are
22:05:17 <andythenorth> RL that train is about size of your thumb, if you have big thumb
22:05:21 <andythenorth> wheels look fine
22:05:37 <V453000> yeah I am working around them
22:05:48 <V453000> I have some nice ideas for the top electric part
22:05:52 <V453000> and a bit more details at the bottom
22:07:07 <andythenorth> current pantograph is bad
22:07:22 <andythenorth> I won’t be rude about it, but looks non-functioning :)
22:07:56 <V453000> yeah it's actually one of the biggest issues of the whole model since the start tbh
22:08:03 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> Wolf01: I am away from computer for a couple of weeks soon <- good holidays then :P
22:08:22 <andythenorth> Wolf01: spent most of today tidying the house of fricking lego
22:08:34 <V453000> what do you find disfunctional about it? my primary concerns are no mechanical parts like joints and some way of making it actually stick to the locomotive
22:08:43 <andythenorth> yeah, looks like a single moulded part
22:09:00 <Wolf01> A friend went to legoland (billund) for the second time in 3 months
22:09:12 <andythenorth> is it that good? :o
22:09:13 <V453000> yep, then we see it the same way
22:09:21 <V453000> which is good cause that is getting fixed af
22:12:27 <V453000> didn't say that to my wife though
22:14:54 <andythenorth> V453000: that’s touching :P
22:14:56 <Wolf01> I always found interesting that the train coupling is maybe one of the oldest standards, and it is working with slight changes for 140 years
22:16:08 <andythenorth> we will probably find same with TCP/IP
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22:26:28 <_dp_> Has anyone already suggested allowing towns to build houses on road turns(in corner)?
22:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: but for about 100 years, the european railways discussed about changing the hook&buffers train coupling into something more like the american/russian center coupling
22:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and they never managed to switch over
22:32:32 <Wolf01> Yes, there are many coupling systems, but the most used worldwide is the Janney
22:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the russians had plans to switch eastern europe over separately, but they never pulled through on that
22:33:54 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of eastern rolling stock was prepared for that switch
22:37:16 <andythenorth> UK has maybe 4 or so coupling systems
22:37:29 <andythenorth> foamers would know
22:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of EMUs nowadays come with coupling systems that are basically incompatible with anything that is not the same EMU type
22:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> they have the added problem that they also have to transmit electric signals
22:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and these are by no means standardized
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22:54:20 <frosch123> hmm, is there any official name to hourglass/zzz cursors?
22:54:31 <frosch123> like "busy" or something?
22:54:40 <frosch123> "background activity" is too long :p
22:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't "background activity" very wrong? you make a zzzz cursor for "foreground activity"
22:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> to indicate that you can't actually do anything right now, thing is busy.
22:56:33 <frosch123> well, there is both :)
22:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember there being an "arrow with small hourglass" cursor for "background activity", meaning "you can do something, but it might be slower than usual"
23:12:38 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: UK is gradually moving toward AAR couplers, a lot of coal/stone hoppers have only those now
23:12:52 <andythenorth> MS and Apple will have their own names for wait cursor
23:13:12 <andythenorth> on OS X it’s called ‘that fucking spinning beachball'
23:13:27 <FLHerne> Of course, coaching stock mostly standardised on an incompatible, smaller and weaker version :P
23:13:41 <FLHerne> And MUs are just all over the place
23:14:08 <sim-al2> I think there's a move in mainland Europe towards a standard automatic freight coupler too
23:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it originated in trams, but is being used for EMUs/DMUs a lot
23:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know anything about freight
23:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but every vehicle which uses these non-standard couplings is required to provide an adapter to the standard hooks
23:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> either carry it with the vehicle, or have it stored in a way that it can easily be brought on site
23:16:19 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: We have similar couplers on many modern EMUs, but the electrical connections are all different and some of the heights are incompatible
23:18:19 <sim-al2> Yeah, most of those multiple unit trains are incompatiable with each other, but at least one unit can tow another
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23:19:04 <FLHerne> Originally they were only compatible with Pendolinos (cl390), but recently they've been improved quite a bit
23:21:36 <sim-al2> There's an old Japanese electric locomotive design that was used for banking up a very steep grade (6.67%), even the multiple units
23:45:30 <Flygon_> Japan doesn't need transition couplers
23:45:36 <Flygon_> It IS the trasition coupler :U
23:45:38 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
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