IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-08-12
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00:20:30 <Samu> alright, just took note of the ship results
00:20:37 <Samu> there are some surprises
00:21:04 <Samu> AIs seem to have a preference for NPF
00:21:22 <Samu> they do better with NPF than with YAPF
00:21:54 <Samu> there's only one exception
00:22:01 <Samu> but the difference is minimal
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00:40:49 <Samu> preparing the savegames, will upload shortly
00:47:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
00:57:53 <Samu> tomorrow I will start testing aircraft
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04:37:25 <DonutMage> Just noticed that in the Cargo Payment Rates window in OpenTTD that it still says liters even though I have my options set to gallons. Where should I report that?
04:53:17 <Flygon> If he didn't leave after just three minutes
04:53:23 <Flygon> I could have answered his question @_@
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06:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, people do that far too often...
06:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (well, actually less often than they used to, IRC is a bit more niche now, hardly any new people joining)
06:38:20 <MonkeyDrone> Flygon: what was the answer?
06:38:42 <MonkeyDrone> most people don't understand irc, too busy with their facebook chat ;P
06:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> MonkeyDrone: that's total nonsense, because people did that long before facebook existed
06:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> MonkeyDrone: i once said a sentence like "old people have no patience anymore, must be because of this rock'n'roll music that fries their brains"
06:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause> turns out, people do the same thing they always did, including thinking that the next generation will bring the downfall of civilization.
07:21:20 <Flygon> <Eddi|zuHause> MonkeyDrone: i once said a sentence like "old people have no patience anymore, must be because of this rock'n'roll music that fries their brains"
07:21:29 <Flygon> Heavy Metal's still a kickass movie
08:00:18 <Flygon> Maybe we should put something in the topic
08:00:28 <Flygon> Like "Don't leave immediately, that's not how IRC works"
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08:32:24 <MonkeyDrone> Yes our kids will bring the end of the world. Those bastards!
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10:31:33 <V453000> didn't really have time for it yesterday, but I did some modelling on the coupling part
10:31:51 <V453000> I got some ideas how to make it look better, just need to implement them over the weekend
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11:41:26 <tycoondemon> people are spoiled with whatsapp and telegram
11:44:45 <Wolf01> < Flygon> Like "Don't leave immediately, that's not how IRC works" <- I tried staying in a channel for 10+ hours after I made a question, not even a single line of text with 8 people in the channel... everyone idle
11:46:36 <Flygon> Wolf01: True. I've had that happen myself
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11:47:47 <Wolf01> Btw, we already have "Don't ask to ask" in the topic, and they still ask to ask
11:47:56 <Wolf01> So: nobody reads topic
11:48:18 <Flygon> I am guilty of asking to ask
11:49:01 <Wolf01> May I ask to ask a question?
11:50:47 <Alberth> how can you say "perhaps" if he already did it?
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11:52:14 <Flygon> Alberth: Nothing in the rules says I can't!
11:52:22 <Wolf01> The problem with "ask to ask" is that you could wait indefinitely for the grant, which usually won't arrive as "could I ask a question?" is a totally pointless sentence. If you greet, and clearly ask what do you need, maybe one bored idler could answer
11:55:15 <Wolf01> I really need to play with a GS... I'm getting bored after 2 years of playing OTTD
11:55:57 <MonkeyDrone> aye, i know of it
11:56:03 <MonkeyDrone> well you could try playing tetris
11:57:00 <Wolf01> But now, I'll try to make a working base on Planetbase, I got my people dying the first night because the night came really soon and they didn't build the accumulator in time
12:32:28 <Samu> hmm i'm trying to test aircraft AIs
12:32:42 <Samu> they have trouble starting up
12:32:49 <Samu> they spend money on roads :(
12:33:44 <Samu> otviai spent an insane amount of money on construction, i dont know what it did, terraform perhaps?
12:39:40 <Samu> okay, trying a different setting for otvi
12:39:50 <Samu> he detected that he can't build roads now
12:39:56 <Samu> let's hope he builds aircraft
12:41:02 <Samu> it wasn't otviai that was building roads
12:51:10 <Samu> out of 8 AIs only 3 managed to start up correctly
12:55:03 <Samu> there are 21 ais that use aircraft
12:58:36 <Samu> managed to make borkai build aircraft
12:58:50 <Samu> his settings aren't too clear, i have to mess around with them
12:59:23 <Samu> otviai wants to build helicopters
12:59:30 <Samu> there aren't any in 1950
12:59:48 <Samu> but he spends all his money on terraforming
13:03:06 <Samu> so borkai has a setting to enable building of buses and trucks
13:03:23 <Samu> i have it unchecked, and yet he still builds roads and tries to build vehicles
13:04:33 <Samu> if i enable it, it builds aircraft
13:17:36 <Samu> otviai doesn't like toyland
13:17:46 <Samu> at least in 1950, when it can't build helicopters
13:18:31 <Samu> i picked toyland because aircraft there can transport all cargo, i was opening more options, but 1950 seems to be a problem
13:21:37 <Samu> i need a different testing methodology
13:27:54 <Alberth> play at a later date, with more types of airport? or do otiviai separately?
13:34:57 <Samu> but for a competition, i wanted to give all AIs the same settings
13:35:37 <Samu> trying to accomodate different server settings for as long as it accomodates most AIs
13:36:01 <Samu> but in the end, i still want them all to go by the same server config
13:36:23 <Samu> if i start in 1960, it must be for all
13:37:12 <Samu> it misses the small airports and lack of helis if I do that
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13:37:55 <Samu> otviai seems to be doing a better start in temperate
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13:38:10 <Samu> actually, a better "not starting"
13:38:22 <Samu> he keeps his money, until a later date I guess
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13:41:06 <Alberth> could perhaps do 2 tests, one for not being able to build, and a "normal" game that starts later
13:41:48 <Alberth> I agree testing very early is useful too, although likely people selecting aircraft AIs will not play in that era
13:44:30 <Samu> speaking of which, cluelessplus started very well, until the airport upgrade
13:44:36 <Samu> he's struggling in this part
13:44:48 <Samu> let's see if he survives
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13:46:47 <Samu> BorkAI is building aircraft but also builds roads
13:46:59 <Samu> i dont think he will develop
13:47:47 <Alberth> or don't help enough :)
13:49:37 <Samu> EpicTrans is the first to go into my list of bankrupted
13:49:45 <Samu> i tried it in different manners
13:50:08 <Samu> toyland, arctic, temperate, tropic, it doesn't have any configurable parameters
13:50:46 <Samu> money gone instantly, bankrupted in 1950, that was fast
13:51:21 <Samu> im relunctant to test in 1960
13:52:30 <Alberth> yeah, not much point to try before at least one airport is available
13:57:53 <Samu> everytime he picks a cargo, it's always TOYS
13:58:01 <Samu> he tries mail, pass, cola
13:58:12 <Samu> but errors that the engine can't use TOYS
13:58:45 <Alberth> toys can be moved to towns, which is why it picks that, perhaps
13:58:48 <Samu> will wait till the faster planes
13:59:05 <Samu> if he still doesn't build anything, i guess i'm gonna give up on toyland
14:19:42 <Samu> ditactorai has finally built something
14:19:48 <Samu> guess i'm staying on toyland
14:20:18 <Samu> chopper started building
14:20:48 <Samu> cluelessplus is past the problematic airport upgrade
14:21:08 <Samu> otviai still did nothing
14:41:53 <Samu> starting PAXLink, i bet it will fail
14:47:36 <Alberth> pax should just work, shouldn't it?
14:48:01 <Samu> it relies on bus feeding
14:48:09 <Samu> but im not allowing road vehicles
14:48:29 <Alberth> sounds like a safe bet then :)
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14:51:53 <Samu> i think i will do another test after aircraft, which I will allow all vehicle types
14:52:35 <Samu> seems fairer for some of the AIs which can't handle only 1 type of vehicles
14:53:19 <Samu> the map layout must be a mix of water, land/hill
14:54:26 <Samu> AdmiralAI is the best performing aircraft AI on this first round
14:55:05 <Samu> in 1962, already with 1300 aircraft, and none are negative
14:55:39 <Samu> £6k profit a quarter and still rising
15:06:38 <Samu> CivilAI doesn't build any airport, i think it depends on buses as well
15:06:53 <Samu> paxlink is in negative, gonna bankrupt soon
15:07:21 <Samu> borkai seems to be slowly digging his grave
15:07:29 <Samu> everytimes he makes money, he builds roads
15:07:52 <Samu> can't build more than 9 aircraft if he keeps doing that
15:08:14 <Samu> paxlink banrupted, ok next
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15:11:06 <Samu> i think he will do greatly
15:12:55 <Samu> probably will get a too long to save at some point
15:13:08 <Samu> but still, will try with autosaves first
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15:37:53 <andythenorth> it’s the sound of moo
15:38:51 <Wolf01> andy, did you read the interview to Andrew Woodman on brickset?
15:39:22 <Wolf01> Depends on what makes you upset :P
15:42:05 <Wolf01> I think what he says is the point of view of the company, not really from the designer
15:46:03 <andythenorth> that’s his job :)
15:48:22 <Wolf01> They lost interest in technics, they only go for appearance and he tells the opposite
15:50:10 <Wolf01> You can see even from the Porsche that it's only aestethics, they hid everything
15:50:30 <Wolf01> And the mechanism they make often don't work well
15:50:35 <andythenorth> there’s all those people who want loads of panels
15:50:45 <andythenorth> you’re right about some of the mechanisms
15:52:26 <V453000> sure, I will have a beer, thank you for suggesting
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16:22:39 <Samu> civilai bankrupted, time for NoNoCAB
16:29:02 <Wolf01> Parenthesis, they save your life... also I noticed that now the conhost parses again the script at each user/program action, which is really nice
16:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Parenthesis is the process by which parents are made?
16:38:58 <Wolf01> Did you prefer brackets?
16:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it's totally weird. with the radeon driver, vlc has trouble playing back some mpeg (2) files, where other players work fine. with the fglrx driver i did not have that problem
16:44:59 <Samu> borkai is in trouble, will bankrupt
16:51:17 <Samu> admiralai is massing statues, i see
16:51:34 <Samu> i was wondering why his money was kinda low for the amount of profit he has
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17:00:26 <Samu> Rythorn Airline AI is next
17:13:05 <Alberth> fast test, this way :p
17:19:00 <Samu> for 100 years, usually 2 days if the servers don't slow down
17:20:01 <Samu> rythorn started with some risk, very long distance aircraft
17:20:08 <Samu> without full load orders
17:20:17 <Samu> after a year it's finally starting to profit
17:20:42 <Samu> so i guess for the first time I get 8 ais profiting
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17:36:43 <Samu> i guess rythorn needs some parameter adjustments, he's selling profitable aircraft, but requires a min of £20000 per year
17:36:55 <Samu> that's just not possible with the early models
17:37:06 <Samu> hmm lets see if he can survive until the better models
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18:54:27 <Samu> rythorn is not gonna make it, time to adjust parameters
18:59:18 <Samu> heh, 5000 /year is minimum i can set to keep aircraft, that's kinda short
18:59:33 <Samu> I wanted to set even less
19:00:31 <Samu> they were averaging 4000
19:00:45 <Samu> this is not gonna work, there's not much else i can change
19:02:02 <Samu> min town size to build an airport is the only other setting i can meddle with
19:04:33 <Samu> Your script made an error: assertion failed
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19:12:13 <andythenorth> my game hit boredom point :P
19:12:37 * andythenorth rarely manages more than 60 years
19:12:53 <andythenorth> maybe it’s because I choose small maps
19:13:36 <andythenorth> once I hit the industry funding stage, I start to lose interest
19:13:41 <Samu> looks like a similar error
19:14:06 <frosch123> andythenorth: suggest on forums to make the game faster
19:14:22 <andythenorth> shorter daylength?
19:16:27 <andythenorth> the big cities are starting to make building train routes non-viable
19:16:31 <andythenorth> ships are boring
19:16:54 <andythenorth> and I’m prospecting arable farms (green) to try and meet a BB goal for the brewery (yellow)
19:20:54 <andythenorth> moar GS needed :)
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19:29:59 <Samu> looks like admiralai got bored of massing statues
19:30:06 <Samu> he's building more aircraft
19:31:21 <Samu> massed statues for 5 years straight
19:32:54 <Samu> cluelessplus weakness are the upgrades it seems
19:33:24 <Samu> he upgraded his aircraft just now and it impacted the profit graph
19:35:17 <Samu> rythorn, with £5k min profit per year per aircraft is doing better now, i think it's enough for him to survive till the better planes
19:44:56 <tycoondemon> may I ask, can I ask o ask a question?
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19:55:09 <Samu> admiralai is building more statues, heh, i wonder when will he run out of towns
19:55:38 <Alberth> depending on map size and town density... that may be a while :p
19:57:34 <Samu> map is 1024x1024, high number of towns
19:59:08 <Samu> how can i tell for sure how many towns are there
19:59:54 <Alberth> if it's not in the town list, I wouldn't know
20:00:03 <Samu> town directory doesn't say how many towns there are, only world population
20:00:12 <Alberth> but 800 sounds a good estimate
20:02:29 <Samu> he's over 2400 aircraft, and still saving, that's unexpected
20:11:12 <Samu> rythorn profit graph is stagnated, but hopefully that's enough till the newer models, just around next year
20:11:31 <Samu> at least it's profiting, not in the negative
20:21:12 <Samu> dbg: [script] [0] [W] WARNING: Demolishing connection from Plardston Sweet Factory to Funhattan Sweet Factory
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20:30:36 <andythenorth> when BB gives me a mail or pax goal in small town, I want fast growth
20:30:52 <andythenorth> but when a town is too big, it blocks the map
20:30:57 * andythenorth is never happy eh? :)
20:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause> just remove a few buildings and buy the land, then come back after a few months when the rating recovered
20:35:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it goes pretty quick if you have a bus/tram network
20:35:47 <andythenorth> I have to use that road-removing ‘cheat’ I think
20:36:00 <andythenorth> the one that lets me demolish connected road tiles
20:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a cheat... that's just common sense
20:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> turning that off is just masochism. that's your own fault
20:36:50 <andythenorth> ingrained play style
20:36:56 <andythenorth> habits take time to break :P
20:38:34 <andythenorth> some kind of Ultimate GS is needed
20:38:49 <andythenorth> BB gets me about 40-75 years of fun
20:40:28 <andythenorth> Ultimate will turn out to be full of totally flawed ideas
20:40:38 <andythenorth> but that’s par for the course
20:40:45 <supermop> eminent domain gs that demolishes swathes of town for you
20:41:05 <andythenorth> I should just turn down town growth rate
20:41:19 <andythenorth> moar goals needed
20:41:20 <supermop> should i buy a ps4 for this space game?>
20:43:32 <supermop> can i build trains on the planets?
20:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem i have with procedurally created content is that over longer times, everything will look kinda the same
20:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also, isn't a PC release scheduled like today?
20:51:42 <supermop> there is no way my computer could run that
20:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause> them rather invest in a proper PC
20:52:17 <supermop> a few hundred bucks on a ps4 is the more economical solution, though it means getting my old tv out of storage
20:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be cheaper, but economical?
20:53:00 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: should but do not have the cash on hand
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20:54:07 <supermop> still need to buy airfare for a trip in October too
20:54:17 <MonkeyDrone> i am looking forward to 'Limit Theory', game concept was nice,something i can chill on as well but no idea when it releases >.<
20:56:54 <supermop> and be sure to have enough set aside for rent next month, and any beers between now and then
21:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> if not having enough for rent is an actual possibility, maybe you should aim for cheaper ways of entertainment than a full price game
21:07:12 <MonkeyDrone> No Man's sky on steam now, $60. NOPE.JPG
21:07:42 <supermop> the game isn't that expensive compared to rent, but the cost of a suitably well performing computer is
21:08:33 <supermop> i pay about 1350 usd /mo, and i assume i'd pay nearly double that were i to build a new workstation
21:10:15 <MonkeyDrone> how much % of income is going on rent is the real question
21:10:25 <MonkeyDrone> 1350 to someone making 10k would be not much :P
21:10:28 <supermop> maybe less, i am not sure, but i'd want any desktop computer taking up space in my apartment to be a reasonably well performing machine for design work as well
21:11:10 <supermop> MonkeyDrone: if i was making 10,000 usd/mo i would not be worried about the computer taking up space in an apartment
21:11:35 <MonkeyDrone> haha, well you said $60 isn't much, but it's all subjectice in the end
21:11:41 <supermop> and likely my life would be such that i'd never have the time nor want to even think about buying a game
21:12:02 <MonkeyDrone> well , depends on how you make that $10k
21:12:06 <supermop> as either i'd have some lavish lifestyle, or i'd be so busy with work that gaming would never be an option
21:12:34 <MonkeyDrone> i've seen rich people here who live pretty normal lives
21:12:55 <MonkeyDrone> fracking millionaires but still got a normal size house, normal cars, none of that luxury high end stuff
21:13:05 <MonkeyDrone> and just go about doing normal life stuff
21:13:15 <supermop> if i had that kind of cash in new york city, i wouldn't care about the game
21:13:37 <supermop> i'd just be travelling as often as my job would let me take time off
21:13:58 <MonkeyDrone> hah, well then, you sure are in a different spotlight
21:14:29 <supermop> my wife actually makes something closer to that before taxes,
21:14:49 <supermop> and that essentially is her goal. travel as much as possible, work as much as possible
21:15:55 <supermop> she has her job, a freelance side job, and pro bono data science work for a non-profit, that take up all her time, except for what she sets aside for travel
21:16:26 <supermop> between my lower pay and fewer vacation days i don't get to go on all of the trips
21:17:31 <supermop> also wife might be more willing to go in on the cost of a ps4 than a desktop as at least two people can easily use the ps4 at the same time
21:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, free weekend on goat simulator. and the first achievement i get is "the game crashed" :p
21:18:40 <supermop> goat simulator? does it eat digital garbage?
21:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that
21:19:39 <supermop> train you for goat ownership?
21:21:32 *** umgeher_ is now known as umgeher
22:06:03 <Samu> chopper is stuck, log message is spamming ERR_UNKNOWN
22:07:01 <Samu> Found an airport to upgrade: Lonthill City Airport, and then ERR_UNKNOWN
22:07:09 <Samu> let me check that airport
22:08:44 <Samu> there is a helicopter in the hangar, maybe that's why?
22:08:59 <Samu> it's stopped inside hangar
22:09:06 <Samu> i guess chopper is stuck forever
22:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> this game is way silly :p
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22:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought i was playing goat simulator, but it's actually i am bread simulator :p
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22:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone know how i turn back into a goat? :p
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