IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-06-23
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00:17:58 * Jakethasnake slaps Jakethasnake around a bit with a large fishbot
00:18:54 <Hiddenfunstuff> night tastes good, day tastes dry
00:19:04 <Hiddenfunstuff> almost like.. humid kerosene smell you have in airports..
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00:43:49 <supermop> i bought like 5 turner turbos instead of passenger cars
00:44:01 <supermop> that was like 60% of my cash on hand
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00:49:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you can immediately sell them for no money loss
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01:27:45 <Samu> cpu usage is still 100% t.t
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12:07:43 <Samu> NoCAB trains went to negative profit
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12:30:26 <Samu> hmm, why not force players to enter their name when they click multiplayer
12:30:56 <Samu> boring to see "Player has joined the game"
13:41:35 <Samu> can I do something like this? if (client_name == "")
13:43:05 <Samu> how do I compare strings?
13:48:29 <SpComb> assuming you were talking C
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13:50:29 <Samu> how to compare "" to being the same as '\0'
13:50:46 <SpComb> take a C programming course
13:51:10 <SpComb> or you'll just be shooting yourself in the foot before you get anything done
13:51:56 <SpComb> C is not a forgiving language for learning by blind trial-and-error
13:52:06 <Samu> + strecpy returned 0x0000005734afe578 "" char *
13:55:07 <SpComb> you can find plenty of good material online if you want to study
13:58:32 <Samu> i dunno what language it is
13:58:48 <Samu> the file i was editing was network_gui.cpp
14:00:18 <SpComb> if that's OpenTTD, then it's C++ but presumeably large parts of it can be considered to be C
14:00:27 <SpComb> and I doubt you can really learn C++ without knowing C first
14:01:05 <SpComb> if you have a really modern C++ codebase, you might be able to ignore some aspects of C, but that may be a somewhat unrealistic assumption :P
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14:05:40 <Samu> i see the code entering .asm files sometimes
14:06:13 <SpComb> really? OpenTTD has asm?
14:07:43 <SpComb> you mean in the source code, or when debugging?
14:07:56 <Samu> when debugging, following intellisense
14:08:53 <SpComb> you're just missing debugging symbols for libc or somesuch then
14:11:03 <SpComb> best to just retreat back up the stack into your own code, you'll be passing in some invalid pointer
14:12:45 <Samu> ;strlen.asm - contains strlen() routine ; ; Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
14:12:54 <Samu> guess it's not part of openttd
14:13:06 <Samu> ;Purpose: ; strlen returns the length of a null-terminated string, ; not including the null byte itself.
14:38:28 <Samu> how do I know if my *ahem* fixes, are being taken into consideration?
14:53:32 <Samu> u don't like my stuff :P
14:54:08 <Xaroth|Work> posting pastebins aren't fixes
14:54:12 <Xaroth|Work> post patches instead, works a lot better
14:55:34 <Xaroth|Work> and that rejected has information why it's rejected
15:02:40 <Samu> will create .patch or .diff
15:14:59 <Samu> what is this and why does it matter
15:19:46 <Samu> i see, but what is the impact of this on a .diff file?
15:20:22 <Samu> or is it .patch? what's better? .diff or .patch?
15:26:27 <Samu> i don't think i have control over these
15:26:43 <Samu> what is better for OpenTTD? CR LF or LF?
15:31:56 <Samu> hmm, I'm going to assume CR LF is better for OpenTTD, as I see everything being CR LF in the code
15:32:02 <jaenster> not that i have anything to say
15:32:20 <jaenster> I made a guess, if all the code is in CR LF, you should do that
15:32:28 <jaenster> but again, i have nothing to say or writen 1 line of code in ttd
15:33:09 <Samu> that means, all my tortoise svn created patches suck :(
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15:48:53 <Samu> i applied a patch created by tortoiseudiff
15:49:18 <Samu> then i went to check the patched files, and they have CR LF
15:50:04 <Samu> the original file is CR LF, creating patch writes it with LF, applying patch with LF creates CR LF
15:50:28 <Samu> does this make sense? and i making an issue out of nothing?
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16:24:58 <Samu> just uploaded .patch files
16:28:00 <Alberth> I'd advise to also eat, and sleep, while waiting :)
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16:49:47 <Samu> is there a setting to forbid towns buildings on half-water tiles?
16:50:09 <Samu> it ruins ships, the pathfinders, and the AIs
16:51:27 <Samu> buildings like houses, road pieces and road bridge ramps
16:51:37 <Samu> makes the water disappear
16:52:03 <Alberth> don't remember ever seeing such a setting
16:52:21 <Alberth> maybe something with disabling building foundations
16:52:51 <Alberth> but that would also cause havoc in hilly land
16:53:15 <Xaroth|Work> Alberth: you forgot breathing..
16:55:06 <Samu> the issue is only related to half-water, building on hilly land is fine for ships
16:59:34 <Samu> there's a setting to forbig bridges for towns, another to forbid town growing
17:00:15 <Samu> hmm, not really what I'd like, but ... okay... I'll use them
17:00:41 <Samu> i just can't stand this major slowdown
17:01:10 <Alkel_U3> patch for half-tile houses :P
17:12:47 <Alkel_U3> or make the whole thing fully 3D already
17:12:56 <Alkel_U3> with blackjack and hookers
17:20:56 <Alberth> hookers can code while playing black jack?
17:21:13 <Alkel_U3> if you pay them enough...
17:27:01 <peter1138> Yeah, we all know it's just a tiny bit of code to make it fully 3D.
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17:47:48 <Samu> restarted the ship AIs for the 3rd time :(
17:47:55 <Samu> maybe this time they won't slow down as much
17:53:34 <Samu> i can compare pathfinder this time
17:56:49 <Alberth> you tried all path finders now :)
17:57:14 <Samu> i was testing all NPF first
17:57:31 <Samu> it was becoming too slow
17:57:43 <Samu> the cause was blocked ships
17:58:05 <Samu> I'm now testing 2 AIs only, each with a different path find
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17:59:43 <Samu> all servers with towns not growing, not building roads, and not building bridges, i guess
18:01:04 <Samu> allow_town_level_crossings is this for bridges or for something else?
18:01:38 <Samu> allow_town_roads = false
18:01:44 <Samu> allow_town_level_crossings = false
18:02:21 <Alkel_U3> I don't think you can prevent towns from building bridges
18:02:23 <Taede> iirc the crossings setting forbids towns to build level crossings with railroads if set to false
18:03:34 <Samu> if they don't expand with bridges, that's fine
18:03:57 <Samu> the existant bridges on game creation are supposedly dealt with fine by the AIs
18:04:30 <Samu> it's only when new bridges are built that the problem starts
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18:11:34 <Samu> there's a lot of variables in place now, AIs and pathfinders, i started the servers nearly at the same time
18:11:43 <Samu> YAPF is currently delayed
18:11:58 <Samu> Original and NPF are doing okay
18:12:20 <Samu> but it's too early yet to draw conclusions
18:13:06 <Samu> i'm also looking at cpu usage
18:14:15 <Samu> I notice NPF does have a slightly higher cpu time
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18:19:16 <andythenorth> should a fruit wagon refit farm supplies?
18:19:22 <andythenorth> bit too convenient? o_O
18:19:55 <frosch123> isn't it more like a reward for using refit orders?
18:21:19 <Samu> looking at spectating instance CPU time, NoCAB has everything equal, but DictatorAI has his NPF instance doing quite a lot of cpu use
18:21:26 <Wolf01> mmm, so now I should use "their" instead of "his or her"?
18:22:14 <Wolf01> "*they: gender-neutral singular pronoun for a known person, particularly as a nonbinary identifier"
18:22:47 <frosch123> i have heard native us speakers use it like that
18:23:06 <Wolf01> but it's american, so wtf :D
18:23:19 <Samu> okay i see ships lost for dictatorai NPF
18:23:29 <Samu> ships lost = high cpu usage
18:24:50 <Samu> what is happening at the path find side of the equation when a ship is lost?
18:25:11 <Samu> why does it take so much cpu when that happens?
18:25:40 <Alberth> it tries to find a path again
18:26:46 <Alberth> and it fails after having explored all available space that it got
18:27:05 <Alberth> which is likely to be quite a bit of sea
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18:36:30 <supermop_> andythenorth: plenty of room to set a few pruning shears etc in there
18:36:47 <andythenorth> logically yes :P
18:36:52 <andythenorth> how about tractors?
18:37:22 <supermop_> do orchards need tractors?
18:37:44 <andythenorth> it’s a bit neat and tidy eh?
18:37:51 <andythenorth> why not just put another car on the back?
18:37:57 <supermop_> pineapple does that
18:38:18 <supermop_> all the box type cars essentially refit to almost everything
18:38:35 <supermop_> i actually like some limited cars
18:38:56 <supermop_> as sometimes you cant get the consist to refit the way you want with refit orders
18:38:59 <Samu> there's some ships lost too on Original, but it doesn't tax the cpu as much
18:40:22 <Samu> YAPF did not produce any lost ship yet for DictatorAI
18:41:10 <Samu> Original with lost ships, is taxing less than YAPF
18:41:28 <Samu> but that is probably because it also has more ships
18:41:59 <Rubidium> original loses ships much more efficiently
18:45:13 <Samu> for some reason that made me laugh
18:46:13 <supermop_> andythenorth: sometimes it is helpful to have at least one wagon in a consist only able to carry one cargo, when bootstrapping 'refit to any available' routes
18:46:38 <andythenorth> that is a (minor) reason for splitting vehicle types
18:46:44 <andythenorth> easier refit orders
18:46:56 <andythenorth> major reason is shiny pixels
18:47:40 <supermop_> richer functionality on refit orders would obviate
18:52:22 <Samu> NPF servers are becoming slow already
18:52:30 <Samu> both DictatorAI and NoCAB
18:52:57 <Samu> YAPF is now ahead of NPF
18:53:36 <Samu> NoCAB built a depot that blocks passage for ships, they can't access the docks
18:53:53 <Samu> and NPF cpu time just skyrockets
18:56:42 <Samu> NoCAB YAPF also built some ship depot block access to docks, cpu time isn't as bad as NPF
18:56:56 <Samu> 37 minutes vs 25 minutes
18:57:58 <Samu> the overall sentiment is that NPF sucks
18:58:05 <Samu> i really thought it wasn't that bad
19:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what's an obviate?
19:37:02 <Samu> there's a clear difference in profits
19:37:24 <Samu> YAPF ships > NPF ships > Original ships on both AIs
19:41:38 <Alberth> directly related to the quality of pathfinding, it seems
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20:03:09 <Wolf01> V453000, hype, is 0.13 ripe?
20:12:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what do you need hype for if there's summer sale?
20:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> my cat does not look particularly hyped
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20:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> never used teamspeak
20:20:08 <Samu> it's been 10 years, the current results are quite odd, they're going against expectations
20:20:15 <V453000> I think I will lose my shit on Monday Wolf01
20:22:09 <Samu> most CPU usage for DictatorAI: NPF 59min w/ 342 ships > YAPF 15min w/ 659 ships > Original 9min w/ 632 ships
20:22:53 <Samu> most CPU usage for DictatorAI: NPF 59min w/ 659 ships > YAPF 15min w/ 632 ships > Original 9min w/ 342 ships
20:24:35 * andythenorth is on for £50 at 4/1 on Brexit
20:24:42 <andythenorth> £200 profit if we leave
20:25:06 <Samu> most CPU usage for NoCAB: Original 22min w/ 1251 ships > NPF 15min w/ 1616 ships > YAPF 12min w/ 1944 ships
20:25:30 <Samu> these results are strange :(
20:26:26 <Samu> less cpu time with more ships is better
20:28:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:29:23 <Samu> in any case, YAPF looks to be the better
20:29:32 <Samu> well not really in "any" case
20:31:28 <Samu> I thought Original was innerently faster than any of the others
20:31:51 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what do you need hype for if there's summer sale? <- I have no heart to open the steam store page (it doesn't work, also)
20:33:45 <Alberth> that helps in not opening it :)
20:33:56 <Alberth> instead, play a new game :)
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20:34:46 <Wolf01> I restarted to play windward, as I notice it got updated 6 times in 3 days
20:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> only 6? you probably missed a few :p
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20:54:57 * andythenorth is in your photoship, drawing your milk trucks
21:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how long does the vote actually open?
21:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so another hour?
21:19:04 <Samu> why's everybody talking about steam today? It's not just here in this chat
21:19:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: about 1h 40m left
21:20:16 <Wolf01> mmmh it seem that they broke the repair of turrets in windward... also some of my ships are taking damage from nothing
21:20:17 <Samu> when poe was announced on steam, the community IQ went down
21:20:33 <Samu> it attracted so many ... kids
21:21:09 <andythenorth> steam is a capitalist plot
21:21:11 <Wolf01> I think I'll wait for the next 6 updates
21:21:15 <andythenorth> coming over here, ruining our public services
21:21:36 <Wolf01> oh, wait, there is an update!
21:23:11 <Samu> leave it to steam to ruin your installed user base
21:23:22 <Samu> i hope openttd never gets on steam
21:32:43 <TrueBrain> steam is already in OpenTTD
21:32:59 <TrueBrain> would be hard to start otherwise at the start of a new game tbh
21:33:25 <ccfreak2k> Samu, Steam summer sale started today is probably why.
21:33:42 <ccfreak2k> The metagame last year was better.
21:33:50 <ccfreak2k> It was an mmo clicker game.
21:34:31 <Samu> trading in poe was not a priority
21:34:54 <Samu> but the horrible community it has now, it forced devs to do somthing regarding trades
21:37:20 <Samu> poe on steam was the worst that could happen to the game :(
21:37:32 <TrueBrain> you want a bucket for all the tears you are dropping?
21:37:41 <TrueBrain> I think you are in the wrong channel for all that QQ
21:38:38 <glx> ccfreak2k: I prefer the discovery lists, easy to get cards
21:39:27 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you have free buckets? o_O
21:39:39 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it cost you 3 iron
21:39:54 <TrueBrain> 3 tin, with the right mods? :D
21:40:06 <Xaroth|Work> 3 clay, but can only use it for water
21:40:17 <TrueBrain> tears are like water, not?
21:40:29 <glx> lava bucket for obsidian factory :)
21:40:38 <Xaroth|Work> and you can craft it and get salt out of it!
21:40:45 <TrueBrain> this conversation got derailed really easily :D
21:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought lava bucket can only make you a cobble factory, or one single obsidian
21:41:27 <TrueBrain> a bucket can not be made from lava, you sillies
21:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> baby food is also not made from babies
21:41:59 <TrueBrain> you sure? HAve you looked in the factories?
21:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> who really knows :p
21:42:15 <TrueBrain> when someone finds out, they say: it is in the name, what did you expect?
21:42:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the "sausage problem" where if you know how it's made, you probably don't want it anymore
21:42:48 <TrueBrain> goes for most of my food I am sure
21:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there's this guy who made an artificial paste that contains all necessary foodstuffs, and called it "soylent"
21:43:54 <TrueBrain> "Features Free To Play Games": 7,49 euro, 16,07 euro, 16,79 euro, 4,99 euro ... weird definition of free Steam has :D
21:44:14 <andythenorth> ha ha the Soylent troll
21:44:17 <andythenorth> he has a funny blog
21:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently he explicitly staded that it doesn't contain people :p
21:45:05 <TrueBrain> what a horrible thing to state explicitly
21:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> he also didn't make it green, i suppose
21:56:49 <andythenorth> it’s kind of olive green colour no?
21:58:13 <Samu> the worst of it, is that he's actually having supporters
21:58:31 <andythenorth> he’s really funny
22:00:23 <Samu> water is cheap? maybe where he lives
22:05:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i think this "virtual water usage" figure is pure nonsense
22:06:08 <andythenorth> he’s just messing with people
22:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> water in place A does not have the same value as water in place B
22:06:20 <andythenorth> Soylent is an enormous practical joke
22:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes pratical jokes take on a life of their own
22:09:30 <andythenorth> I think he’s very comitted to it :)
22:09:39 <andythenorth> or, more plausibly, I’m wrong and he means all of it
22:09:49 <andythenorth> but I prefer the idea that it’s a giant troll with lots of VC funding
22:13:39 <supermop> with VC fnding, it doesn't really matter if you honestly think an idea is good or sustainable
22:14:05 <supermop> so long as you can make it to the next round of fundraising
22:18:01 <Samu> how do you know it's a troll? those comments seem kinda seriou7s
22:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> is that not how every "rational" business works?
22:22:12 <andythenorth> best troll would look deadly serious :)
22:22:48 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: yep, but you don't even need your product to be desirable or profitable
22:23:33 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: that is precisely why a "free" market is never the best solution
22:23:53 <supermop> a lot of startups are perennially loss making, but still bring in plenty of funding to give everyone a nice salary and free snacks in the kitchen
22:24:27 <supermop> profitability is someone else's problem, after you go public or someone buys you out
22:24:52 <supermop> then the founders can start a new start up with more free snacks and beer!
22:25:27 <supermop> fiancee's work has two kegs in the office chosen by employee vote when they run out
22:25:46 <supermop> for some reason VCs are fine with this
22:33:21 <supermop> i want one of those big toblerones
22:33:36 <supermop> the ones that are like 80cm
22:35:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not sure if i actually like toblerone
22:36:22 <supermop> i go back and forth on them
22:36:34 <supermop> i think it's been over a year since i had one
22:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's much longer for me
22:38:34 <supermop> i probably has as many calories as in 4 toblerones in alcohol last night though, so best to abstain
22:42:43 <supermop> i could also go for a pickle i guess
23:06:41 <andythenorth> no more toblerone for the UK
23:07:00 <andythenorth> all those toblerones coming over here, ruining our culture
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23:08:40 <frosch123> toblerone is safe, it's not eu
23:09:07 <frosch123> though expensive when franken doubles again
23:09:12 <frosch123> and pound halfes again
23:10:11 <andythenorth> ha I wish I’d voted out now
23:10:17 <andythenorth> I forgot about Switzerland
23:11:51 <andythenorth> bah 2 more milk trucks to draw
23:12:03 <NGC3982> Are there any results?
23:12:49 <supermop> none expected yet i believe
23:12:51 <frosch123> they likely did not count much in 12 minutes
23:13:21 <NGC3982> Oh, it was just done?
23:13:28 <NGC3982> I thought it was yesterday.
23:13:45 <frosch123> no, they just closed :)
23:14:40 <andythenorth> be tomorrow morning
23:14:46 * andythenorth is not staying up
23:15:25 <NGC3982> Last polls seems to state 50/50-ish
23:15:36 <NGC3982> Whoever wins, that's not good.
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23:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what happens if both sides get exactly the same number of votes?
23:45:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the queen has any vote in british politics
23:45:38 <supermop> i think she gets one
23:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> but is she technically a citizen?
23:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the queen is an exception to almost anything
23:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> like not needing a drivers license to drive, and stuff
23:46:41 <supermop> i am sure if she registered to vote her local polling place would not turn her away
23:46:57 <supermop> does she not have a drivers license?
23:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that's a trivia thing going around
23:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if it's true
23:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause> she probably doesn't drive anyway
23:47:58 <supermop> she's actually kind of well know for driving her own land rovers about
23:48:13 <supermop> but i think these days that is only on a private estate
23:48:22 <supermop> she was a truck driver in the war
23:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> how do they not have a prognosis already? in germany they have a prognosis right when the polling stations close, which is usually accurate within 1-2%, and gets refined over the next few hours with actual results
23:51:40 <supermop> usually they are able to get a good estimate from exit polls here, and will be report on that even before polls close
23:51:49 <supermop> but maybe they are choosing not to
23:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a law that the exit polls may not be published before polls close
23:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> here, not sure about britain
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