IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-06-14
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00:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> just look up a hash function?
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00:03:51 <_dp_> that already is a simple hash function
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00:05:00 <_dp_> multiplying by number that is relatively prime with modulo
00:05:13 <_dp_> looks ok so don't see any reason to use smth more complex
00:06:01 <_dp_> besides, it it gets too good it won't compress well ;)
00:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> trees never compress well...
00:08:42 <_dp_> well, I've already shaved off 10% of save size with this
00:08:50 <_dp_> and I only did counter and ground type
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00:15:35 <Wolf01> eddi, but trees don't move XD
00:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: not very relevant...
00:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the point is that is "too similar to random noise"
00:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and thus not very compressible
00:18:17 <ST2> but you have to admit, would be fun having running trees xD
00:18:25 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, that's why I'm eliminating randomness
00:19:27 <_dp_> doesn't have to be random to look random
00:20:26 <Wolf01> the function approach could be a good one, you define say 50 functions and pick some of them at map generation and place them in some tiles, then the functions will generate trees, maybe based on the year
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01:10:49 <_dp_> hm, making all trees in group to be the same time looks interesting but has almost no impact on save size...
01:18:43 <ST2> you can even name those tree's groups "National Parks" xD
01:18:46 <Wolf01> mmmh, it does not really convince me
01:21:42 <_dp_> without random that ugly diamond shape really stands for some groups
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02:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> is that intentional that the forests are somewhat rectangular?
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09:57:52 <Wolf01> pfffff biters started to annoy my outposts with mammoth biters :(
09:58:12 <Wolf01> they are even able to bite once the walls
09:58:25 <Wolf01> no, the base green ones
09:58:41 <V453000> anyway, Big biters should already be able to bite 1 tile behind walls
09:59:17 <Wolf01> what are walls then? newjerseys?
10:00:05 <V453000> well that's why people build 2 layer walls :)
10:00:23 <V453000> or lower cost option - have 1 tile gap between wall and turritz
10:02:04 <Wolf01> I should review outpost's layout, maybe I should move the walls 10 tiles away from the turrets, so even spitters have a bad time, and even use blue belts to keep biters away from walls
10:03:43 <V453000> but ultimately the best defense is moar turretz
10:04:25 <V453000> just have 2-3 layers of laser turrets behind 2 layer wall, roboports to fix/replace damaged/destroyed things, and you are fine
10:05:02 <Wolf01> as I build them now, they are just a square which acts a buffer stop for the railway, with 7 laser turrets around an energy substation and a radar
10:05:46 <V453000> yeah 7 substations won't compete well against behemoths :P
10:11:48 <Wolf01> meh, behemoth spitters too
10:17:44 <Alkel_U3> I saw a nice mod providing turrets shooting tank shells, decent garaphics, too. Only issue was friendly fire :D
10:19:33 <Alkel_U3> haven't tried them, though
10:27:25 <Wolf01> btw, V, filtered chests are going to be in 0.13?
10:37:40 <V453000> I don't think so but I will check
10:38:36 <Wolf01> just make any inventory filterable, it would be a great improvement
10:41:05 <Wolf01> it's a total waste to have chests limited to just 1-2 spaces when you can have many items inside with their space reserved instead
10:42:04 <V453000> well you can have up to 4 different items with wires to inserters :)
10:42:21 <V453000> nope, no filters yet :)
10:42:25 <Wolf01> but from 4 different directions
10:42:28 <V453000> I don't consider that an issue tbh
10:42:59 <V453000> I think there might even be a way to make the circuitry for 1 inserter for any amount of cargoes
10:43:08 <V453000> since you can read hand contents
10:43:17 <Wolf01> not an issue, but a major annoyance, I could have 1 chest instead of 8 on the outposts
10:43:33 <V453000> just put a wagon there. :P
10:43:57 <V453000> I don't find it annoying at all tbh, I can just easily ctrl+click 1 chest to get 1 specific item I want
10:44:02 <Wolf01> yeah, but flying-fucks can't get from the wagons
10:44:41 <Wolf01> eh, I do it that too, but stations have limited space
11:05:56 <V453000> flying fucks are boring as fuck
11:06:25 <Wolf01> less boring than going to search through all chests what you need to refill in your inventory
11:09:06 <Wolf01> mmmh, a little image just gave me an idea, there's a rock on a patch of stone, would it be possible with mods to make the rock drop a patch of stone when destroyed?
11:10:51 <V453000> the rocks are mineable in 0.13, giving 20 stone
11:12:22 <Wolf01> I'm also thinking to convert Factorio to C&C, I already saw a mod for harvesters, now I only need mines which create infinite patches of raw materials and V2 rockets
11:12:51 <V453000> mods for infinite resources are there, with depleting yield
11:13:01 <V453000> which kind of does the same
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11:52:56 <Wolf01> the candle (K&L) inserters are really good, I know the puzzle game story blah blah, but sometimes I just want to concentrate on other things
11:56:39 <Wolf01> I could do the same with more stuff just to not spoil the puzzle game, but then I can put all in blueprints and the puzzle game will go nuts
12:02:07 <Alkel_U3> I'm gonna have to try these someday. I've tried the side inserter mod so far and I think it was great refreshment. Too bad I'm busy with OpenTTD and being affraid of starting a new Factorio game just before .13 comes out these days :D
12:20:36 <Wolf01> shit, why rails always offset the blueprints by 1 tile?
12:22:39 <Wolf01> rotating odd sized things mixed with even sized things is a pita :(
13:08:26 <Samu> somebody joined, played and didn't desync
13:08:54 <Samu> but then I had to hibernate last night, he got connection lost today
13:14:10 <Samu> it impresses me how they always find the tiniest place to build and make a profit in 64x64 maps
13:14:30 <Samu> there's 14 AIs there messing up the entire world
13:15:20 <Samu> messy roads, failed connections, and yet, someone joins and still makes a living company out of it
13:20:53 <Samu> of all those AIs, one stands out, AIAI
13:21:29 <Samu> he got a profitable company, despite all the chaos he creates, so many bus jams
13:24:43 <Samu> syntrans also surprises me for a different reason
13:25:33 <Samu> he managed to build 3 airports, on a 64x64 map, despite all that chaotic roads, one airport is evevn city version
13:35:53 <Wolf01> I read 2 girls 1 cup :(
13:37:05 <Wolf01> that shit still haunts me since my coworker found it and "rickrolled" the entire company
14:21:23 <Samu> ok, i see why, darn station spreading cheaters
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14:36:19 <Samu> scrollto console command
14:36:39 <Samu> i'd like to suggest a scrollto center
14:40:40 <Samu> is there an easy way to calculate the center tile of the map?
14:45:16 <Samu> servers always start at the top corner
14:45:41 <Samu> why don't they start with viewport centered?
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14:58:57 <peter1138> because you can't see it
15:00:44 <Samu> ppl who join the server use his viewport location
15:02:06 <Samu> and if I'm a gui server, it even uses my viewport if I happen to be playing
15:02:26 <Samu> they know exactly where I'm working on
15:02:39 <peter1138> pff, who uses non-dedi servers...
15:05:58 <_dp_> I think I brought that up once too, scrolling to center makes much more sense to me
15:06:12 <_dp_> would even benefit titlegame
15:06:22 <_dp_> like, right now it's just forest on 4k
15:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but then you can't hide stuff on the title game
15:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> currently you know "this area is never seen", so you can build ugly control contraptions there
15:07:51 <peter1138> who would build ugly control contraptions?
15:08:07 <_dp_> you think control contraptions are worse than forest?)
15:10:44 <_dp_> well, you can still build them far enough
15:11:29 <_dp_> and for 4-8k monitors it's probably wiser to zoom in a bit anyway
15:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> 640k ought to be enough for everyone?
15:11:44 <Alkel_U3> is there a way to tell an openttd instance to use nondefault autosave location? I'd like to have all instances look into ~/.openttd but use different autosave dir so I can quickly tell which is which in the event of a server crash (and separate configs in that dir, but that one's clear)
15:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can set autosave location separately
15:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's always relative to the config file location
15:14:29 <Alkel_U3> too bad, although it's not a big deal, just matter of convenience
15:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could make ~/.openttd/server1/config.cfg
15:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll still look for grfs and stuff in ~/.openttd
15:16:11 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, in 2100 for someone with 1024k tilegame will be just a tiny green blot anyway so no use thinking that much ahead :p
15:17:02 <Alkel_U3> will it? Ok, great! I assumed it wouldn't. Thanks
15:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> just all newly downloaded stuff will end up in ~/.openttd/server1
15:19:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there is also a (read-only) "shared" directory, where you can put grfs
15:19:34 <Alkel_U3> well, since I'll be usually preparing new configuration on local singleplayer I'll be uploading newgrfs manualy, anyway
15:19:50 <Eddi|zuHause> something like /usr/share/games/openttd
15:20:12 <Eddi|zuHause> configurable on compile time
15:20:17 <Alkel_U3> oh, I completely forgot about that one
15:21:36 <Wolf01> <Samu> they know exactly where I'm working on <- sounds like a kid rant
15:21:49 <Sacro> Arch has several different openttd packages with differing locations
15:21:51 <Sacro> .openttd, .openttd-svn, .openttd-rc
15:23:00 <Alkel_U3> I assume those come from aur?
15:25:50 <Alkel_U3> back on Manjaro I tried to install Dwarf Fortress and some related utilities from AUR, only to find out that I can't rely on any level of interoperability between those packages unless explicitely specified...
15:27:57 <Wolf01> V453000, it's fun how the most talked argument in the forum is "how to hack factorio to get steam achievements"
15:29:33 <V453000> I don't have time to read forums tbh
15:29:33 <Sacro> Yeah, AUR, I wrote most of them
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15:29:47 <V453000> but right now I am working on a gui for a new ultra amazing feature
15:29:50 <V453000> people will shit brix
15:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is the point to "hack" achievements?
15:32:09 <Wolf01> it seem that it's the only reason to exist for some people
15:32:09 <peter1138> there used to be tf2 servers set up just to get specific achievements
15:32:18 <Alkel_U3> wtf is the point of achievments? :-)
15:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> achievements are great.
15:32:43 <Alkel_U3> I don't need the game telling me I'm having fun :P
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15:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if they are done right, they encourage you to play the game in ways you wouldn't have explored otherwise
15:33:19 <Wolf01> yeah, *if they are done right*
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15:34:14 <Wolf01> achievements which make you grind 142542 monsters or play for 5000 hours are a nonsense
15:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, some achievements are just absurd, like "as saxony, own all provinces producing porcellan"
15:35:08 <Wolf01> "kill 50 men with an arrow in the eye as a woman"
15:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but there's nothing wrong with "form persia and conquer greece"
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15:36:56 <Wolf01> that even tries to teach you some story
15:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, most of these have some kind of story behind them
15:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know most of the stories, though
15:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and "Meissner Porzellan" is also a story...
15:38:50 <Wolf01> achievements "you completed the mission xyz" are pointless, it's part of the main plot, you have to complete it
15:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i see those as a measurement baseline on how many people are actually playing the game
15:39:44 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of buying it and never trying, or giving up after the tutorial or so
15:40:09 <Wolf01> you can complete the whole list by loading a savegame from another player
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15:40:18 <Wolf01> at least many games do that
15:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not the greatest measurement tool, yes
15:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but probably "good enough"
15:41:26 <Alkel_U3> I like when it's not directly called achievments and provides something in return for completing it; like completing challenges to get badass ranks in Borderlands 2 - you get badass poits to redeem for minor stat improvements. I still don't see enough motivation for just unlocking an icon saying "you did that" unless it seems like an interesting challenge from the start
15:42:23 <Alkel_U3> although I agree that there definitely are games which can do that right
15:45:15 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like Eu4
15:45:41 <Wolf01> for example, take the Magicka achievements, some of them are really funny to do ingame or subtle citations from movies or books
15:47:13 <Wolf01> some of them also teach you another way to do something
15:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: well, my 3rd attempt at saxony finally working out :p
15:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause> just the achievement is still absurd
15:50:12 <Sacro> I don't have many acheivments yet
15:50:46 <Samu> MailAI and gelignAIte servers have reached 2051
15:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i currently have 35 out of 185 achievements
15:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i was just playing and "wtf? there was an achievement for that?" :p
15:54:08 <Wolf01> too bad that steamstats doesn't work now, but last time I gave it a look I had about 14% of my total achievements
15:59:42 <Wolf01> oh it seem that I played a lot, now I'm at 31%, but that's the average and not the real one
16:02:40 <Samu> what's Modulo by zero error?
16:04:26 <Samu> with Modulo by 0 when trying to place hq it seems
16:05:21 <Samu> dbg: [script] [0] [S] Your script made an error: modulo by zero dbg: [script] [0] [S] dbg: [script] [0] [S] *FUNCTION [On_Start()] trans_ai-130722\task\build_hq.nut line [38]
16:07:26 <Samu> if (counter % My.ID != 0) continue;
16:09:30 <Samu> dbg: [script] [0] [S] [counter] 1
16:09:39 <Samu> how do i find the other value?
16:09:56 <supermop> Alkel_U3: patched server up?
16:10:57 <Samu> My.ID is company number?
16:11:27 <Samu> 1 % 0 is Modulo by zero error?
16:11:50 <Samu> so if he's company 1, it won't error?
16:16:44 <supermop> work interenet still slow today
16:19:30 <Samu> nice, Trans started fine on the 2nd slot
16:21:27 <Eddi|zuHause> in soviet russia, 0 divides YOU
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16:22:23 <supermop> is there an eddi zu Arbeit?
16:25:23 <Samu> i see fanioz is inactive
16:25:37 <Samu> wonder who could fix it?
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16:27:41 <Samu> PAXLink server reached 2051
16:29:52 <Samu> i have no more road vehicle AIs to add to my tests
16:30:08 <Samu> yay, i expect tomorrow to be done with road vehicle tests
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17:07:28 <Alberth> anybody who obeys the license restrictions on the AI can fix it
17:12:32 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: it's been running sinceyesterday evening
17:14:26 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: aargh, I detached from the screen in copy mode again
17:14:33 <Alkel_U3> ok, now it's running :D
17:14:47 <Alkel_U3> next time I'll run it with -f
17:15:06 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: i think the connection at work is still slow today so might not be able to connect today, maybe in the evening
17:17:01 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: how many hours till your evening?
17:18:04 <Alkel_U3> I just got home from work, too tired to guestimate :D
17:19:40 <supermop_> i typically work until 19:00, new york time
17:21:38 <Alkel_U3> well, the map is 1024^2 this time so there's still gonna be space left :D
17:22:38 <Alkel_U3> and more both industries and cities
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17:36:50 <supermop_> oh i didnt see you were already in the south west
17:37:37 <supermop_> this messes up my plans for running an isolated little network on that penesula
17:37:47 <Alkel_U3> ah, so you are the mysterious 'player' :-)
17:38:17 <Alkel_U3> yeah, I'm in green, camouflage :P
17:38:19 <supermop_> i guess i don't have name set on my work computer
17:38:36 <supermop_> maybe ill go to the north east then
17:38:39 <Alkel_U3> nothing a little console command can't fix
17:39:12 <Alkel_U3> there's a lot of flat ground in between those mountains :-)
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17:50:24 <supermop_> now how to get through that coastal farmland to finish this line as far as the refinery
17:51:12 <supermop_> Dagon Fel is the natural terminus for the railway
17:51:53 <Alkel_U3> seriously, all of it? :D
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17:52:38 <Alkel_U3> ok, I was going to expand elswhere in the nearest future... :D
17:53:09 <supermop_> i just want to run along the southern coast of the penensula
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17:53:38 <supermop_> we can have a union station in dagon if you are going to continue onto the mainland through there
17:54:12 <Alkel_U3> oh yeah, you gotta share, you gotta care. I'd almost forget :D
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17:55:49 <Alkel_U3> i also forgot to actually turn infra sharing at the start, I enabled it in the console at work today
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18:07:33 <supermop_> but hopefully this first line and train will be profitable
18:07:59 <supermop_> and keep my ratings in towns high enough to start adding some industrial services
18:08:06 <Alkel_U3> I guess it will, the daylength patch makes it a lot easier
18:10:01 <supermop_> are there any GS on this?
18:11:56 <supermop_> you have a preference for terminal or through station at Dagon?
18:12:15 <supermop_> how about 2 platforms each
18:12:24 <Alkel_U3> through will be easier if used as hub, I think
18:12:39 <supermop_> i only need length 5 for now
18:12:40 <Alkel_U3> you wanna keep it segregated?
18:13:01 <supermop_> i will proably timetable trains into there
18:13:15 <supermop_> and might have them lay-up to stay on time
18:13:42 <Alkel_U3> i always use fully automatic timetables on pax service in this patchpack
18:13:43 <supermop_> so if it is a terminus, i'll probably always have one platform occupied
18:14:18 <supermop_> i'll probably run on a 30-day schedule, maybe 60
18:14:52 <supermop_> in which case ill have trains wait 31 or 61 days, so they leave after the next service arrives
18:15:04 <supermop_> but i can't afford the extra trains yet
18:15:48 <supermop_> ill build as 4 tracks, and ill terminate on the eastern two, you can run through on the western two?
18:15:59 <Alkel_U3> um... you do acount for the daylength setting, right? - it would be stationary for majority of time :-)
18:16:29 <supermop_> whatever the scale equivalent of 30 day wait would be
18:16:40 <Alkel_U3> well, I won't be connecting in the near future
18:17:27 <supermop_> ill figure it out with the dept. board
18:18:03 <Alkel_U3> do you want it to wait there to save on fuel or for synchronization purposes?
18:18:22 <supermop_> to catch up if late
18:18:35 <Alkel_U3> you can just use the automatic separation
18:18:45 <supermop_> terminus might make more sense with town layout
18:19:28 <supermop_> as a north south through line has to bridge over that bay
18:19:35 <Alkel_U3> it adjusts automaticaly the times and start dates. It has the benefit of not having to redo the schedule when you upgrade the engine
18:20:21 <supermop_> doing the schedule is my favorite part!
18:20:45 <Alkel_U3> I personaly would build the station further and have trams connect it with the city :-)
18:21:02 <Alkel_U3> well, it gets tedious after a while, at least in my case
18:24:07 <Alkel_U3> but if you find enjoyment in that, i won't be stopping you :-)
18:26:17 <supermop_> i certainly prefer automatic for trams
18:26:49 <Alkel_U3> yeah, that would be well beyond tedious
18:27:06 <supermop_> ok 4 tracks, 6 tiles long
18:27:21 <Alkel_U3> oh shoot, Ordinamat is taken :D
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18:36:32 <supermop_> terminating in a stub line station instead
18:36:55 <_dp_> hm, somehow forests stopped regrowing after my treegen tweak...
18:43:04 <supermop_> hmm you think you'll run along the north shore to dagon fel, or on my trackage?
18:46:23 <Alkel_U3> sorry can't keep up with both ingame chat and here :D
18:48:46 <Alkel_U3> to answer the question - I'd find it more logical to connect to Assernerairan
18:51:03 <supermop_> ah, then run on my line, or transfer passengers? can also connect onto my line via fruit spur
18:51:26 <Alkel_U3> transfer would be preffered
18:52:01 <supermop_> lets me avoid double tracking that far out so soon if we don't have twice as many trains on the line
18:55:42 <Samu> aww rats, i forgot to save 2051 for pathzilla
18:56:41 <Samu> this really sucks, isn't there a way to schedule a savegame on 1st jan 2051? I totally forgot about this one
18:56:51 <Samu> he also takes too long to save
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19:06:00 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: what are you thinking about hlervu? branch line?
19:06:57 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: I don't have plans for it :-)
19:07:36 <supermop_> ill add a branch after lunch
19:07:37 <Alkel_U3> also I'll be mostly afk for an hour or so, need to cook
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19:09:35 <Samu> i'm also restarting civilai, i didn't like how he bankrupted last time I tried
19:09:48 <Samu> trying different parameter values now
19:10:55 <Samu> im unsure if I also retry CPU
19:11:05 <Samu> he took a long while to "take off"
19:11:26 <Samu> but then he didn't do all that much when he had the money
19:11:38 <Wolf01> bah, blizzard broke the servers again :|
19:13:40 <Samu> can anyone help? any server script expert?
19:14:12 <Samu> i start a game on 1950 with PathZilla, and I'd like the server to perform a save exactly on 1st Jan 2051
19:14:21 <Alkel_U3> hah, for a secondI thought an actuall blizzard disrupted someone's openttd server :D
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19:57:33 <Samu> Trans is doing bad roads
19:58:00 <Samu> I don't recall trans being this bad
19:58:13 <Samu> can't even connect a depot to a road now
20:05:15 <andythenorth> cat is in your code
20:05:18 <andythenorth> refactoring your trucks
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20:06:50 <andythenorth> this code is super awesome
20:06:51 <andythenorth> if slice.spriterow_num is not None:
20:06:52 <andythenorth> slice.spriterow_num = slice.spriterow_num
20:07:33 <V453000> I don't think I want to know what that does
20:08:36 <andythenorth> it’s a trick question
20:08:57 <V453000> if bullshit exists, then is bullshit?
20:09:59 <frosch123> "slice" sounds like cake
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20:13:04 <V453000> probably something like sprite row?
20:15:43 <andythenorth> it’s just nonsense
20:15:56 <andythenorth> I have deleted it, no consequence :P
20:17:27 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: still lunch?
20:17:57 <supermop_> doubling the line on the eastern portion
20:18:10 <Alkel_U3> allright, I really need to tap Assernerairan asap :D
20:18:30 <supermop_> want another platform?
20:18:51 <Alkel_U3> traffic tries to route over the northern peninsula, it's oversaturated
20:18:53 <supermop_> and enter from east or west?
20:19:29 <Alkel_U3> build 1 more and let me enter any from east?
20:20:02 <supermop_> center platform bi-directional?
20:20:18 <Alkel_U3> yeah, probably best like that
20:20:43 <supermop_> or do you want dedicated just for your terminus?
20:20:44 <Alberth> hi hi back, from everyone
20:21:02 <Alkel_U3> I like when things are connected :D
20:21:04 *** rc is now known as Guest4373
20:21:28 <Alkel_U3> although on the other hand I'll have just 1 train there for now
20:22:03 <Guest4373> anyone know how to use wotan crossing in latest openttd 1.6
20:22:24 <Alberth> what's a wotan crossing?
20:23:37 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: how are you coming across the river from the east? from madas zebba?
20:23:38 <Guest4373> see there wotan crossing
20:24:08 <Alberth> Guest4373: did you read the big message on that page?
20:24:22 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: I'd best connect right at the station
20:24:28 <supermop_> ok build your bridge across river and ill connect to station approach
20:26:27 <Guest4373> which big message bro
20:27:07 <Alkel_U3> probably the one right at the top?
20:27:32 <Guest4373> historic containts ?
20:29:48 <Guest4373> then do u know how to create crossings to avoid train and bus collussion
20:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in some cases, building a signal some distance away from the crossing helps
20:30:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and if the crossing is double tracked, you're lost.
20:30:53 <Guest4373> or there is any grf for crossing 32bpp
20:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> probably. but they don't chang behaviour, only looks
20:31:27 <Alberth> standard baseset should have it
20:32:26 <Guest4373> standard means opengfx?
20:34:52 <Alberth> we may need a new standard :)
20:39:18 <V453000> finishing BRIX is still one of the things I would like to eventually do, but factorio just takes all of my attention, especially now
20:39:43 <V453000> I still believe I will find the time to finish it one day :)
20:41:02 <andythenorth> Wolf01: looks like a coffee machine :)
20:41:02 <rc_> help for crreating crossings
20:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's a double rainbow
20:43:09 <Samu> Wolf01: are you Timberwolf on the forum?
20:46:11 <Samu> weird music for an ottd video
20:46:13 <Wolf01> "now I found a way to solve it" really easy by building bridges?
20:46:32 <rc_> ya but i need this kind of stuff
20:47:40 <Wolf01> even if I love Iron Maiden, I think that 1.the music is not suitable; 2.soon or late youtube will ask you to remove the video or mutes the audio :)
20:47:52 <rc_> but dont knw how to use that
20:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: for a video that is there already for 5 years?
20:48:51 <Wolf01> not many views, or not viewed by the wrong people
20:49:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the kind of people that mute or block music in videos use bots for that
20:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> or at least googles content-id
20:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and if that cannot detect this music being used, there's a bigger problem :p
20:50:27 <Alberth> rc_: make a newgrf for personal use
20:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a program that converted the old 32bpp stuff into a newgrf
20:51:38 <Alberth> can you program or are you willing to learn?
20:52:55 <Alberth> no, except it should be possible in some way with NML
20:55:13 <Samu> Alberth: are game scripts supposed to be active in scenario editor?
20:55:30 <Samu> there is no definite answer
20:55:38 <Alberth> no idea, it does seem a bit weird
20:56:15 <Alberth> there is not a game world you want to control there
20:56:31 <Samu> there's towns and industries for gs
20:56:48 <Alberth> on the other hand, you do want to be able to add/set/have a GS in a scenario, I think
20:57:27 <Alberth> which sort of implies you should be able to add/set it in some way
20:57:40 <Samu> there is no standard behaviour
20:57:48 <Samu> sometimes it's active, sometimes it's not
20:58:02 <Alberth> that sounds likely, probably nobody considered the SE while adding GS
20:58:37 <Samu> Timberwolf must have been dealing with this issue
20:59:04 <Samu> I've also had to deal with it, I did not change its behaviour
20:59:22 <Samu> but I find it kinda buggy
20:59:42 <Alberth> yeah, likely it should not be active
21:00:18 <Alberth> you're making the scenario, rather than playing it
21:02:55 <Samu> it's the loading that will activate the scripts
21:03:14 <Samu> loading of a savegame, or scenario in this case
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21:33:14 <andythenorth> optional_unit_number_to_take_sprites_from_when_manually_overriding_automatic_magic
21:33:19 <andythenorth> is that a good variable name?
21:33:40 <Wolf01> yes, pretty explainatory
21:33:49 <andythenorth> messes up my lines :P
21:35:26 <Alberth> wider screen, smaller letters ?
21:37:38 <frosch123> s/overriding/jinxing/ is shorter
21:38:37 <andythenorth> also this is property is only used in ~5% of cases
21:38:46 <andythenorth> so I’ll forget it exists, and reinvent it :P
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22:44:18 <V453000> I don't even know when tbh
22:44:44 <V453000> I just keep working on my things and making them as good as possible for the release
22:46:02 <V453000> nah ty :P beer after releae
22:46:28 <V453000> also I just went through my saves and discovered that I have around 200h on them in total :D
22:46:47 <V453000> would like to put around 100h into my 0.13 base
22:47:25 <Wolf01> wow, I have about 140 hours in total, pre-steam + steam time
22:47:52 <V453000> well my steam hours are inflated by testing time, having game run at background etc
22:48:01 <V453000> so I just take total of savegame game time
22:48:05 <V453000> which is quite accurate actually
22:49:25 <Wolf01> wso, yesterday I found how to reproduce the weird fact about underground belts I talked about the last time
22:51:14 <Wolf01> if you build 2 underground belts in the span of 4 tiles and you remove the middle pieces, one of the entrances will automatically change to an exit
22:52:15 <Wolf01> because it tries to "fix" the belt continuity
22:54:26 <Wolf01> if you remove the middle exits, randomly the top or the bottom entrances will become an exit
22:57:41 <Wolf01> if you don't pay attention when building contraptions like the lane switcher/separator you'll end up breaking things up to 5 5 tiles away without noticing it
22:58:20 <Wolf01> that's why I said the underground belts should always be whole, like ottd tunnels/bridges
22:58:45 <V453000> I don't value that as an issue tbh
23:00:26 <V453000> I definitely have a bigger problem with the rocket lacking any meaning, effect, or reason
23:01:12 <Wolf01> put in an ion cannon, people like ion cannons
23:01:29 <V453000> that only changes how you eradicate bugs
23:01:34 <V453000> the least interesting part of the game
23:01:46 <Wolf01> or even a microwave satellite to send energy on a receiver on the ground
23:01:59 <V453000> my plan is to either have this in the vanilla game by 0.14, or I might even make a mod which just adds rocket-based researches
23:02:16 <V453000> so you send satellite, satellite sends you scientific data -> rocket science \o/
23:03:26 <Wolf01> but you need rocket science to make a rocket
23:03:53 <V453000> I mean a new science pack obtained from a resource which is gathered by sending rocket
23:04:10 <V453000> key feature is that the rockets quickly decrease yield the more of them you send, so it matters which you choose first
23:04:24 <V453000> and they are upgrades which drastically change how you build your factory
23:07:10 <Wolf01> and what do you expect to find in space to be able to boost your production? idroponic? no food beside fish, no agriculture because the game is about destroying the environment... meteoric iron? what for?... aliens? you are already crashed in an alien world
23:07:32 <V453000> eh, does it matter? scientific data.
23:07:57 <V453000> It's not like science packs make much sense ... inserter + belt = scientific progress?
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23:08:18 <V453000> you explore planets, how physics there work, chemical processes, ...
23:08:38 <Wolf01> sounds like a different game
23:08:45 <V453000> it is exactly the same game
23:08:55 <V453000> invest resources, get research
23:09:05 <V453000> except the rocket actually does -something- in the game
23:09:15 <V453000> also, it would produce a fuckload of pollution upon launch
23:09:33 <V453000> right now launching a rocket is nothing but a waste of resources
23:10:14 <Wolf01> it's the "final" objective
23:10:31 <V453000> which is cute, and that's fine
23:10:35 <Wolf01> if you don't make it final you need to find another final objective
23:10:43 <V453000> the rocket science I am talking about is more of a post game thing
23:11:00 <V453000> you get a message like now after first rocket, that doesn't mean you should stop playing ... just like most of the players do
23:11:22 <V453000> does openttd have a final objective?
23:11:34 <V453000> survive till 2050, that's probably even worse
23:11:35 <Wolf01> it's like civilization, where you had to build the colonial spaceship before year 4000 or what, it was a waste of resources
23:12:24 <V453000> sure, but my point is that it can remain the end goal, AND have a reasonable meaning for people who want to continue
23:13:11 <V453000> not to mention that suddenly attempting to launch the rocket ASAP has some actual reasoning too - to get the massive bonus of your choice earlier
23:13:25 <frosch123> btw. is there a method to automatically start rockets when ready?
23:13:45 <frosch123> ok, i did not figure that out then :)
23:14:04 <frosch123> i need that to test whether the production is sufficient for constant rocket launching
23:14:21 <V453000> the thing is, with such a heavily based game on sandbox and freeplay, having a goal is kind of useless Wolf01 ... as many people prove. I do agree that it is good to have things to work towards, but that's why there should be a 15-20 mission campaign with exactly that.
23:14:22 <Wolf01> and what if you fire a rocket and it sends you down the environment data which shows you the planet won't sustain life anymore, a timer starts and you have 2 options: build another rocket to escape and crash into another alien planet or try to get environment friendly and clean out the pollution, plant trees, breed biters
23:14:36 <V453000> frosch123: if you MOAR enough :P
23:14:56 <Wolf01> the more the pollution before you send the rocket, few time you have
23:15:00 <V453000> that makes zero sense with how the game works Wolf01
23:15:00 <frosch123> Wolf01: btw. some construtions require to place half-tunnels of different speed, so that they do not join up
23:16:07 <V453000> the whole point Wolf01 is to escape the planet, not try to stay there
23:16:21 <V453000> I know, the rocket science doesn't make any sense in that respect either
23:16:28 <Wolf01> so, go for the first option
23:16:40 <V453000> but I can at least justify it with something like searching space for where home is, finding scientific data meanwhile
23:17:18 <V453000> no, starting a new game shouldn't be "the ending"
23:17:24 <V453000> people would generally want to avoid it
23:18:42 <Alkel_U3> maybe i like to play a psychopath who crashed on a planet with the devotion to completely wreck it's ecosystem and eventualy turn it into something like Mustafar :P
23:18:57 <V453000> also as Alkel_U3 says. :)
23:19:10 <Wolf01> you won't start a new game, the game ends and shows you a happy video which tells "yeah, other 24542 crashes like this and I'll be at home"
23:19:11 <V453000> the ecology game is kind of inverse :) MOAR pRODUCTIONZ
23:19:43 <V453000> "game ends" is where it fails horribly. Sandbox doesn't need to end. That is exactly the same like openttd
23:19:46 <V453000> you end when you want to
23:20:03 <V453000> just at some stage the game informs you that you have "won enough"
23:20:08 <Alkel_U3> "You turned the whole planet into a volcano. You freakin' won!" :D
23:21:03 <V453000> Wolf01: I think you are just missing a proper and longer campaign
23:21:20 <V453000> because that's pretty exact how the campaign can end, but not freeplay
23:21:25 <Wolf01> <V453000> just at some stage the game informs you that you have "won enough" <- like the old money overflow on ottd?
23:21:42 <V453000> openttd does this message in year 2050
23:21:55 <V453000> which is even less interesting than sending the rocket
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23:22:15 <frosch123> just start in 2051 :p
23:22:18 <V453000> as sending the rocket is a technical achievement, surviving till 2050, sleeping at the keyboard, not really
23:22:45 <frosch123> i like the rocket, it allows continuous production without having to add storage space
23:22:47 <Wolf01> in 2050 you haven't won enough, when you overflow the money and you find you have a huge amount of negative balance you have won enough
23:22:57 <frosch123> just send stuff into space and increment some counter
23:22:59 <Wolf01> even if you manage to achieve that in 1935
23:23:08 <V453000> frosch123: nothing would change with that, in fact it would be encouraged by it having a reason
23:24:15 <V453000> having the rocket cause pollution would actually make it noticeable that you are making gigantic fireworks for nearby biters, and them actually noticing
23:24:24 <frosch123> also, i still enjoy the rocket revealing the 2d graphics aspect :p
23:24:28 <V453000> and you getting technologies from rockets over time, gives at least some progression
23:24:56 <Wolf01> if you can start a massive biters attack to the rocket silo from every place of the world, then it could be interesting
23:24:58 <V453000> I won't spoil your experience by ranting about other 2D things :P
23:25:03 <frosch123> about polution, in my current game the explored map has a homogeneous shade
23:25:15 <frosch123> does that mean i have to explore more?
23:25:51 <V453000> no you just need MOAR
23:25:56 <frosch123> V453000: do i spoil your work by saying that i have not bothered researching in at least over a year?
23:26:16 <V453000> you mean the technologies?
23:26:44 <frosch123> yeah, i just cheat research-all at start, set manual mininig speed to 100, and start building rails :p
23:26:58 <V453000> well, of course you can do that
23:27:07 <V453000> I don't think many people do, but fine
23:27:17 <V453000> but it doesn't go agains having reasonable game mechanic :P
23:27:31 <V453000> my suggestion still doesn't ruin your fun in any way
23:27:44 <V453000> it just build upon it
23:28:19 <Wolf01> I built the rocket silo and launched a rocket with a satellite once, just to see it once, then after understanding it was really pointless I decided to avoid it entirely, maybe if you can make it attractive...
23:28:41 <V453000> isn't that what I am talking about the whole time? :D
23:29:50 <Wolf01> yes, but sending up 2000 rockets doesn't change my idea about it, even if it sends down a "science packet"... for what?
23:30:11 <V453000> of course, at some point you get "why do I do this"
23:30:18 <V453000> you can say that at literally any point of the game
23:30:21 <Wolf01> if I fire up a rocket and it send down a spidertron I would do it every 3 minutes
23:31:30 <V453000> my point is, anything you do in the game, is more impactful than the rocket
23:31:34 <V453000> researching, expanding, anything
23:32:14 <V453000> and as you say, after I launch the rocket, I saw how it looks, but pointless and I won't do it again
23:32:16 <Wolf01> for example, now I'm busy on building railways in every direction, I don't think a rocket will help me do that, maybe if I fire one over that fucking large behemot spitters nest I'm not able to get rid of...
23:32:41 <V453000> it won't ruin your creativity and will to build whatever interesting base you like
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23:32:50 <V453000> it would be wrong if it did
23:35:28 <V453000> anyway, I kind of think it will end up just as my mod ... which is fine, the only difference will probably be that the science data items won't spawn in the rocket silo, but in some new special entity.
23:37:49 <frosch123> i also need shared orders btw :p
23:37:59 <V453000> yeah that would be nice
23:56:48 <frosch123> maybe it should be linked from the junction tutorial in the ottd wiki :)
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