IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-06-15
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00:55:11 <Samu> ST2: why did you disable autosaves? I think I know why
00:56:13 <ST2> was kinda pointless have 28 servers making autosaves that never were necessary
00:56:27 <ST2> but each client have that set as they want ^^
00:57:08 <Samu> oh, so not really what I thought
01:02:07 <Samu> to summarize, the best thing out of that patch is the ability to continue running the server while performing autosaves
01:02:40 <Samu> customize autosaves to encode with a fast format
01:05:15 <Samu> there may be a drawback, depending on perpsective: since the server does not stop when doing autosaves, cpu usage can go as up to 2 full core usage
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01:07:06 <Samu> doesn't stick to the usual single core usage
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01:09:03 <Samu> i might update that with v5
01:09:35 <Samu> I'm thinking of combining save empty script with it
01:11:45 <Samu> no more waiting for AIs/GSs to save, it kinda fits
01:11:58 <Samu> and also less data saved
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01:47:57 <ST2> ah, and yeah, tuesdays are always like this, since I work on a weekly newspapper/magazine
01:48:09 <ST2> it's closing edition day/night
01:49:10 <Samu> when i post something, the download counter automagically gets to 2
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01:54:05 <Samu> my typos on describing the features, ughh
01:56:10 <Samu> uhm nope, still not correct
01:56:13 <Samu> my english is failing me
01:57:46 <Samu> This removes yet another stall during game state copying, and reduces the size needed to be compressed and the size needed to send the map to the client.
01:58:57 <Samu> who's native english speaker?
02:02:07 <Supercheese> could add commas if you like commas
02:02:23 <Samu> This removes yet another stall during game state copy, while reducing the size of the map that is to be compressed and then sent to the client.
02:03:49 <Samu> game state copy or game state copying?
02:04:55 <Supercheese> either, but I'd like the -ing
02:08:46 <Samu> okay, cyas all goodnight
02:36:04 <supermop_> feel like havent seen you around in awhile
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02:52:55 <Supercheese> lots of War Thunder
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10:50:49 <Samu> Trans crashed, took too long to save
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11:21:02 <Wolf01> >_> V453000 did you release something? I see achievements on the factorio page
11:25:09 <V453000> the achievement have been there for like 2 weeks now
11:25:17 <V453000> but train graphics are in master now :)
11:25:23 <V453000> awesomeness intensifies
11:25:52 <Wolf01> really achievements were already there? I never noticed them in the last days
11:33:04 <Wolf01> btw have you seen the new dlc for fallout 4? it's going full factorio
11:34:47 <Wolf01> no, it happens that he is just one of their graphics designers
11:35:11 <Sacro> Tbh I see a lot of crossover between TTD and Factorio
11:35:38 <Wolf01> yes, they share even the userbase
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12:55:15 <monsted_> i'd love to see a full integration between factorio and openttd. use factorio worlds as cities in openttd and use openttd transportation between them
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12:59:45 <Samu> top - PathZilla, SimpleAI
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14:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose that's a step up from "i want sim city integrated into openttd"
14:02:54 <Wolf01> I would like ottd integrated in factorio
14:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> how about integrating openttd into eu4?
14:04:20 <Wolf01> windward into ottd would be cool
14:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the "windward islands" are already in eu4 :p
14:05:59 <Alkel_U3> How about factorio in openttd in eu4 in master of orion 2
14:06:58 <Wolf01> what I really want is a true sandbox game where you are not limited by the scope of the game
14:07:47 <Wolf01> for example minecraft heavily modded is about what I want
14:08:39 <monsted_> Wolf01: there are mods that try to add decent train logic in factorio, but there's a ways to go yet
14:10:56 <Alkel_U3> well, .13 should basicaly have programmable signals, right?
14:13:05 <Wolf01> I don't mean just trains, I'm already happy with the current ones (and the upcoming features will be fantastic), but for example I feel that the game misses some "macro" automation, after you've set up the 125th mine, even with blueprints, you might want something more automated, like you find a new ore spot and place a single machinery instead of waiting for your swarm of flying fucks to
14:13:05 <Wolf01> empty your inventory full of belts and harvesters
14:13:51 <monsted_> it does have a scalability problem
14:14:03 <Wolf01> the bucket wheel mod is a good start imho
14:14:28 <monsted_> i just put down a Mk3 bucket wheel excavator :)
14:14:37 <monsted_> like, literally a minute ago
14:16:14 <monsted_> orbital ion cannons helps with another of the scalability issues - it becomes soooooo tedious to out aliens when the evolution level hits max
14:16:27 <monsted_> s/to out/to clear out/
14:22:00 <Wolf01> also different wagons with different (un)loading methods would be cool, like hoppers for ores and the current system only for goods
14:23:04 <Wolf01> I know the spirit of the game is to use the inserters for everything, but it gets boring after some time
14:24:53 <Wolf01> different means of transportation, reduce the inventory space of the car (a buggy doesn't need so much space), add half-tracked lorries with trailers
14:28:05 <Wolf01> and this one will get me stabbed in the back for sure: different size for items, it's funny you can store 50000 trains in a crate, they shouldn't be stackable and use up to 3x6 squares in inventory, or even built in depots connected to tracks
14:33:10 <Wolf01> and a use for the rockets: quick delivery anywhere, you load stuff in the silo, build a rocket and ask an orbital drop 10000km away in the lone outpost
14:59:30 <Alkel_U3> Or a 50kt payload onto an especially nasty boter nest :D
15:01:24 <Wolf01> yeah, I'm trying to clean up the route for my railway and I have huge nests with behemoths all the way :|
15:01:38 <Wolf01> I would like a good way to wipe them out
15:03:00 <Alkel_U3> the orbital cannons are handy
15:13:58 <Samu> so this chat is now offtopic
15:20:17 <Samu> ever since PoE became announced on Steam, it's been downfalling
15:29:21 <Alkel_U3> I don't see how you got the idea of the channel being offtopic. It's Factorio with some OpenTTD to fill in the gaps. Seems pretty consistent to me ;)
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15:38:43 <Wolf01> heh, cleared the little nest
15:39:29 <Wolf01> with laser turrets, rockets, capsules
15:53:46 <Samu> question, Foster bus and Foster MKii Superbus can't reach their max speeds
15:54:35 <Samu> i've set them going in a straight top NW to south SE on a 64x4096 road
15:55:20 <Samu> using realistic acceleration
15:55:37 <Samu> no slopes at all in the terrain, it's plain
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15:56:42 <Samu> foster bus maxes out at 101/102 km/h
15:57:05 <Samu> foster superbus maxes out at 118/119 km/h
15:58:05 <Samu> 101/102 out of 112 km/h, and 118/119 out of 127 km/h.
16:08:44 <supermop> i doubt those were designed with realistic accelleration in mind
16:10:58 <Samu> toyland buses can reach their max speeds
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16:25:33 <supermop> Alkel_U3: how goes the server?
16:26:50 <Alkel_U3> supermop: probably running for real this time? :D
16:27:31 <Alkel_U3> I don't know, I literally just got home
16:28:02 <Alkel_U3> Like 10 s before you wrote
16:28:45 <Alkel_U3> The server was out again?
16:30:36 <supermop> just remarking that it must be late for you to be just getting home
16:30:51 <supermop> unless you mean home from a days work
16:32:03 <supermop> I was able to get capacity up a bit last night
16:32:09 <Alkel_U3> oh, great. No welcome home beer in the fridge...
16:33:23 <supermop> we are running low ourselves - dinner was a spicy xian / western chinese noodle dish that required me to kill off the last of the lager
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16:33:56 <supermop> and now we are down to one can of a summer ale and one of a belgian pale ale
16:34:49 <Alkel_U3> I still have some in stock, but I'll have to restock before saturday for party :-)
16:35:20 <Alkel_U3> I actually connected in the morning for a bit, saw your request
16:35:43 <supermop> i need farglider to connect me at the other end of the valley too
16:35:52 <supermop> haven't looked at it yet today though
16:36:36 <Alkel_U3> I also saw that you added a platform at the first hub to the west - that's for me or do you want me to move my line so you can have three platforms?
16:37:17 <supermop> i was thinking i'd need three when i tripled the line, but for now i think i am ok
16:42:25 <Alkel_U3> hm, I see you have some trains permanently stopped in depots - that's on purpose?
16:42:52 <supermop> yeah, in the process of being cascaded, moving stock around
16:43:36 <supermop> those stanleys will work freight branches now that the SW line is streamliner expresses and emu locals
16:44:21 <supermop> saving the old-fashioned passenger cars to extend emu trains in the future
16:45:05 <supermop> need a line up and over that center southern bay to move old stock to the eastern line
16:45:09 <Alkel_U3> oh, wow, I'll have to add more platforms along that route from Dagon Fel, as well as more trains. Insane traffic
16:45:25 <supermop> on my line or yours?
16:46:09 <Wolf01> are you playing a Tamriel map?
16:46:23 <supermop> im losing money apparently
16:46:32 <Alkel_U3> just using Elder Srolls town names :-)
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16:47:32 <Alkel_U3> crap internet connection again?
16:47:35 <supermop> having trouble connecting
16:48:54 <supermop> going to go get a snack or something
16:49:57 <Alkel_U3> good thing that I complained about the beer - I'd otherwise didn't have a track of the time of inserting it in the freezer
16:53:01 <Wolf01> mmmh, I wonder how $3.99 became €4.38
16:54:19 <supermop> been a long time since EUR was that weak relative to USD
16:54:39 <Wolf01> I think I was charged by paypal fees
16:54:58 <supermop> so not just blatant price discrimination
16:55:52 <supermop> either is about the same, i'd actually just say 'charged paypal fees'
16:56:33 <supermop> charged of sounds a bit odd
16:56:36 <Wolf01> so... 11 more steam games, I'm without hope
16:56:58 <Alkel_U3> of playing them all :P
16:57:20 <Wolf01> I already have 400+ games waiting to be played
16:57:31 <supermop> charged by kind of makes since in a cartoonish was as it personifies the fees themselves rather than paypal
17:09:10 <Alberth> Wolf01: card may now only be used to give to charity, at least until you played > 200 games
17:10:22 <monsted_> supermop: the EUR is plummeting because britain seems to be leaving
17:10:58 <supermop> monsted_: EUR is still worth more than 1 USD
17:12:09 <supermop> also technically UK is not a member of the Euro currency, so the value of the GBP or the absence of it does not directly affect European central banks or the value of the EUR
17:13:13 <monsted_> it affects the EU in general, so people are losing confidence in it
17:13:36 <supermop> the UK leaving will cause market uncertainty and likely impede the economies of member countries
17:14:04 <monsted_> and it's not like investment is particularly logical, a lot of movement seems pretty random
17:14:15 <supermop> but at this time there only speculative pressure on the EUR rather than hard valuation pressure
17:14:55 <supermop> but Wolf01 should still pay less than 4 EUR for something that costs 4 USD at today's rates
17:15:44 <Wolf01> the difference is VAT, but they should have said that
17:16:03 <Wolf01> the price they show is VAT free
17:16:40 <supermop> also market uncertainty about UK exit is also exerting downward pressures on US markets, as non-unified market makes Europe a less certain trading partner
17:17:09 <supermop> so USD should also be pressed down by a similar, but weaker amount
17:17:52 <supermop> as of course US is less dependent on EU as EU is on Britain, but it is still a major economic partner
17:18:07 <supermop> not just for export, but in coordinating monetary policy
17:19:10 <supermop> although currently the UK, Fed and ECB do coordinate and would presumably continue to do so
17:19:38 <supermop> BoE more precisely than UK as a whole
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18:49:00 <Samu> found another bug in scenario editor
18:49:48 <Samu> oh nope, not a bug, my bad
18:51:27 * andythenorth has been writing automation since Sunday
18:52:58 <andythenorth> deleted about 200 lines of code to get to that
18:59:32 <andythenorth> it also saves time by codifying some design decisions and preventing other choices in future
18:59:36 <andythenorth> less thinking :P
18:59:43 <andythenorth> less changing stuff :P
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19:05:24 <Alberth> ha, I'd need to see that first :)
19:06:44 <Alberth> never got the hang of those @ things :)
19:06:50 <andythenorth> I like @property decorator
19:06:56 <andythenorth> I am unconvinced by any others
19:07:00 <andythenorth> including setter version
19:27:07 <andythenorth> I should release another Road Hog beta
19:27:15 <andythenorth> but I don’t know what new bugs I introduced :P
19:39:47 <Samu> just checked all road vehicles
19:40:08 <Samu> there's only 2 models that won't reach maximum speed in a straight road
19:40:18 <Samu> the two Foster bus models
19:42:07 <supermop> Samu: none of the default vehicles were designed with realistic acceleration in mind
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19:48:33 <Samu> t.t - took me a while to test all tilesets
19:58:11 <supermop> those vehicles were conceived in the early 90s, long long before anyone thought about applying any sort of physics to the game
20:12:15 <supermop> I guess some people, if a friend told them that they were really enjoying hanging out, would then feel compelled to never see that friend again
20:13:10 <supermop> because if someone else enjoys your company, clearly they are gaining from it, and therefore you are losing something?
20:15:23 <supermop> seems to be the argument
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20:15:39 <supermop> not my fight but frustrating to watch nonetheless
20:15:48 <supermop> also it is relevant to New York
20:16:01 <supermop> although that more fuel for 'leave'
20:16:07 <Alberth> ha, so if I hate to have you around, you'd never leave? :p
20:16:32 <supermop> "New York is better off if we stay in, therefore we must leave!"
20:17:03 <supermop> I am suspecting it is less about self-benefit, and more about spite at this point
20:17:31 <Samu> the entirety of users just left and joined openttd
20:18:15 <supermop> as most of the arguments seem to hinge on 'do they benefit' rather than 'do we see any real harm'
20:18:30 <supermop> Samu: we only say you leave and rejoin
20:18:45 <supermop> Samu only netsplit i guess
20:20:16 <Samu> ah, so that's what a netsplit is
20:20:43 <andythenorth> hmm, maybe 100 changes since last RH beta
20:21:39 <supermop> usually at least some users would be on the same side of the split as you
20:21:55 <supermop> but seems in this case only you were on that side of the break
20:22:32 <supermop> so presumably it was somewhat physically close to you
20:27:38 <andythenorth> most of coding is choosing the names it seems :P
20:31:05 <Alberth> avoids getting confused
20:34:55 <Alkel_U3> supermop: so what about the internet now :-)
20:41:19 <supermop> been doing actual work haven't tried recently
20:41:57 <Alkel_U3> oh, I forgot you're at work :-)
20:49:24 <Alberth> everything painted red :p
20:49:36 <andythenorth> I want it done, but I want it good
20:49:44 <andythenorth> rock, hard place
20:49:49 <andythenorth> ocean, deep blue sea
20:50:01 <andythenorth> moon, new york city
20:50:28 * andythenorth wants to start Nautilius, but things must be finished first
20:54:38 <supermop> first time i've gotten a godwin's law response out of someone
20:55:39 <supermop> particularly impressive seeing the subject at hand
20:57:01 <Alkel_U3> I hope it was something like influence of unicorn overpopulation on banana fertility
20:57:07 * andythenorth looks at openttd
20:57:19 <andythenorth> ha ha, Iron Horse is so distant from reality for British trains
20:57:26 <andythenorth> dunno why I was worrying about Road Hog realism
20:57:37 <supermop> andythenorth: needs more 08s
20:57:43 <andythenorth> zero is a good number
20:58:21 <andythenorth> I would have had to make it 650hp and 65mph or so
20:58:30 <andythenorth> instead of 350hp and 17mph or so
21:00:11 <supermop> just round up to 1/8 length, 2000hp, 125mph
21:02:36 <supermop> also have you seen one of those in real life? they are pretty bulky to have only 350 hp in them
21:02:44 <supermop> even considering their age
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21:08:20 <supermop> hmmm... feed trolls?
21:09:09 <Wolf01> andythenorth, VW beetle hype
21:10:32 <supermop> i'm feeling yes, feed
21:10:44 <supermop> actually maybe i am the troll?
21:14:51 <andythenorth> “if you don’t know who the troll is, you’re the troll”
21:14:59 <andythenorth> ach, no, that’s poke
21:15:12 <andythenorth> Wolf01: looks nice, not something I’d buy, but design is sharp eh?
21:18:13 * andythenorth considers writing a parser to read an nml template and put the sprite template values into the compile
21:18:30 <andythenorth> this is definitely more logical than putting the values in the compile, and writing them into the nml template :P
21:19:15 <Wolf01> I can't not buy it, I have the transporter, the mini cooper, the F40... :D
21:21:29 <supermop> Wolf01: i had my eye on the f40
21:23:30 <andythenorth> so I need to detect all 8 angles individually in row of vehicle sprites
21:23:43 <Wolf01> I like how they made the air intakes
21:23:55 <andythenorth> (1) know the co-ordinates of the blue boxes on the template?
21:24:07 <andythenorth> (2) detect the white gutters between the blue boxes automatically with PIL?
21:24:14 <andythenorth> every spritesheet has same template
21:25:05 <supermop> Wolf01: yeah the naca ducts looked clever
21:29:15 <andythenorth> the beetle is spectacularly better than the previous dark blue one
21:37:25 <Alberth> find non-white boxes?
21:38:50 <Alberth> I am pretty sure I wrote that somewhen in the past, but for what again??? :(
21:43:00 <andythenorth> find any box that’s not white
21:44:08 <andythenorth> the simplest way is just to move the nml sprite template co-ordinates into the compile
21:44:17 <andythenorth> auto-detecting it is much cooler
21:44:37 <andythenorth> do I want ‘cool’ or ‘done in 5 mins’? :P
21:47:46 * andythenorth will decide tomorrow :)
22:18:27 <supermop> Alkel_U3: still no luck
22:26:27 <Alkel_U3> joys of internet connection in 2016 :-)
22:31:43 <Alkel_U3> supermop: well, I'm gonna take advantage of you still not requiring the extra platform in Dagon Fel - I increased traffic there considerably so it's handy for me :-)
22:36:18 <Alkel_U3> if you'll want me to scooch over, just build an extra platform and leave a sign
22:49:29 <supermop> wont have time to play tonight at home - going straight from work to a concert in brooklyn
22:53:43 <Alkel_U3> I probably won't play too much till sunday
22:56:26 <supermop> i could use a new house set
22:57:03 <supermop> swedish houses is the last new, full town set to my knowledge
22:57:41 <supermop> i wonder whatever happened to that guy making the nice tropical/favela houses
22:58:29 <Alkel_U3> I started doing one for same reason, but I got barely anything done. I need to motivate myself more
23:03:08 <Alkel_U3> I can't even find the little what's done on my hdd >:I
23:16:54 <Samu> uhm... i'm looking at syntrans info.nut and, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but when I try to change the max distance value in OpenTTD, it changes the log level instead if I got dev tools disabled
23:20:06 <Samu> AddLabels part is changing the value of the hidden setting,
23:20:29 <supermop> i've started various attempts both in 8bpp pixel art and rendered sprites over the years, but yeah i never had the motivation for it
23:21:58 <Samu> looks like the bug is in the gui part of the code
23:33:05 <Alkel_U3> 3 years since the last time, I can't get myself to do it
23:34:41 <Alkel_U3> strange thing is that it's not even that hard to make and the result was great... well, I guess I'll pick up the ingredients tommorow, lest I forget about it again
23:44:47 <Samu> this is gonna be hard to report, i need some help
23:45:16 <Samu> Dropdown Setting is changing value of non-visible Parameter
23:45:43 <Samu> steps to reproducing it are hard
23:45:57 <Samu> i dont know how to begin
23:51:13 <Samu> needs several tools at once
23:51:59 <Samu> a specific value in a setting in openttd.cfg
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