IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-06-13
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00:25:15 <Samu> that guy will only finish tomorrow
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01:14:10 <supermop__> Alkel_U3: current jgrpp seems to be xxx.3 not .2
01:18:12 <supermop__> don't know where to find the older version, so i cant join
01:24:37 <Samu> choochoo bankrupted, kind of expected
01:27:31 <Samu> AroAI is replacing ChooChoo
01:30:36 <Samu> CivilAI bankrupted, really weird this AI at times
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07:38:47 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: what luck. It's just changed :D I guess you'd need to get source from github and compile yourself. But I also guess that the small set of changes might permit an upgrade midgame.
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12:12:58 <Samu> hmm servers ain't being advertised
12:16:33 <Samu> ST2: hi, can you try joining any of my servers? from yesterday to today, I gained a different IP address, so I wonder what will happen
12:17:02 <Samu> ST2: this is hibernation thing
12:19:40 <Samu> bah, sorry st2, i did not get a new ip address after all, I was wrong
12:26:38 <Samu> AroAI is triggering bankrupt warnings for no reason
12:27:03 <Samu> he's working too close to the max loan limit
12:29:12 <Samu> he's got a huge profit of £1.100k
12:29:40 <Samu> sad to see successfull AI's getting these warnings
12:58:59 <Samu> The extension log is not allowed, why not?
12:59:06 <Samu> can't upload log files to the forum
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13:12:48 <Samu> aroai is special, he actually starts working immediately after load
13:16:13 <Samu> are bankrupt warnings saved in savegames?
13:31:48 <Wolf01> you don't need to tell us when you go away for 3 minutes, I think people are smart enough to guess you are busy elsewhere when you aren't writing ;)
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13:45:58 <Samu> i'm submitting a feature request, but I bet it's gonna be dismissed anyway
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15:03:36 * Samu slaps ST2 around a bit with a large fishbot
15:05:32 <Samu> ST2: could I ask you another favour?
15:07:34 <Samu> I expect no desyncs, but I got a limited audience
15:07:37 <ST2> we disabled autosaves on our servers
15:09:23 <ST2> and, as I hope you understand, I'm @ work now and hardly gonna test weird stuff on our servers
15:11:39 <Samu> just thought it could be useful, it stores less data when sending the map to clients
15:11:56 <Samu> less bandwidth requirements
15:12:03 <ST2> we dnt have issues with it
15:12:43 <ST2> the way to make really small map file sizes is to remove trees
15:13:26 <Samu> yeah, i noticed trees are evil
15:13:52 <Samu> savegame format lzma:6 also compresses better
15:14:02 <Samu> but requires more ram usage on the servers
15:14:19 <Samu> and slows down the upload rate
15:26:28 <Samu> in fact, I got no audience at all, it's jsut me
15:26:47 <Samu> i have no idea how to make this compatible with 1.6.1-RC1
15:55:05 <_dp_> omg, rly? 3/4 of save is just trees?
16:05:23 <Samu> tree_placer = 1.sav 18,7 MB (19.677.544 bytes)
16:05:48 <Samu> tree_placer = 2.sav 26,9 MB (28.269.848 bytes)
16:06:09 <Samu> tree_placer = 0.sav 4,21 MB (4.419.608 bytes)
16:06:20 <Samu> 4096x4096 map, arctic tileset
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16:25:15 <supermop_> trees are effectively noise - not compressible
16:25:58 <Wolf01> then don't save the trees and regenerate them randomly each time the game is loaded
16:26:41 <Wolf01> what is saved about a tree?
16:27:09 <supermop_> tile location, tree type, number of trees on tile?
16:27:25 <supermop_> i'd love to see more data per tree
16:27:48 <Wolf01> I think some informations might be discarded and just save the latter, who will notice the colour of a tree falling in the middle of the Amazon forest?
16:28:26 <supermop_> things that could give certain species preferences for certain areas
16:28:38 <supermop_> so the pines stay with pines etc
16:29:09 <Wolf01> maybe you could regenerate 80% pines above snow line and 20% others and the inverse below the snowline
16:29:22 <supermop_> also, slope or average 3x3 slope of tile the tree is on, so that trees on 'dark' sides of hills can be shaded
16:29:43 <supermop_> so that trees do not camouflage topography
16:30:59 <supermop_> but none of that matters for save - in fact
16:31:06 <Wolf01> there's the transparency/invisibility feature for that
16:31:25 <supermop_> Wolf01: that's a bad solution
16:32:16 <Wolf01> what, enabling transparency to see the terrain?
16:32:20 <supermop_> as you have the dilemma of either can't see where you or building, or can't see that you just destroyed 100 trees while messing around and no rating is destroyed
16:32:45 <supermop_> also the map looks prettier with trees, but we all just leave them off most of the time
16:33:06 <Alberth> only while building :)
16:33:24 <supermop_> i still would likely turn off while doing most building
16:33:36 <supermop_> but id like a compromise while planning
16:34:07 <supermop_> also i find once trees get dense enough, they nolonger look good
16:34:15 <Wolf01> I would like a planning layer too
16:34:25 <Wolf01> which doesn't change the map
16:34:28 <supermop_> as it becomes a flat green noise
16:34:41 <supermop_> you cant see any beautiful tree covered hills
16:35:28 <Wolf01> by the way, we are diverting from the original problem
16:36:54 <supermop_> if what ever places the trees has more info to go on, like put oaks roughly here, pines roughly here, etc
16:37:28 <supermop_> then you can regenerate trees on each load and get pretty similar results
16:37:45 <supermop_> so it wont look as weird that the actual trees are not saved
16:38:36 <supermop_> if save game only saves 'there are trees in this area' rather than 'this tile has tree 01, this tile has tree 03...etc"
16:38:50 <Wolf01> pines (with some mixed others) in snowy areas, less trees on slopes and more trees on flat tiles
16:39:30 <supermop_> it can predictably refill that area of trees in a reasonable looking way without saving precise location and species of each tree
16:40:02 <supermop_> by following those basic rules based on height slopw, next to water etc
16:40:15 <supermop_> the only problem is
16:40:56 <supermop_> what if a player is specifically planting like a boulevard row of palm trees lining the road to their HQ
16:41:22 <supermop_> or they have like a tuscany map and want rows of specific trees along the country roads
16:41:31 <_dp_> from what I can see no one even bothered to compress trees, they are just stuffed in map array in hope that zip will magically compress them
16:41:38 <Wolf01> maybe we could make an exception for player planted trees, or if a player wants static trees just use grf objects
16:42:17 <Wolf01> and if you plant an entire forest, you'll end up using more savegame space
16:44:30 <supermop_> i'd prefer my 'planted' forests stay random - maybe objects are best for decorative trees
16:45:20 <supermop_> can object have a property that 'spawns' a tree of a certain type on the object, rather than just grabbing a sprite?
16:45:55 <Wolf01> also, trees die and spring continuously, so nobody will ever notice they are random
16:46:26 <_dp_> you can make "random" type of tree that can be used along with specific ones, that will a good start I think
16:47:32 <supermop_> actually the current trees are so dumb i don't know if anyone would miss their behaviour changing
16:48:11 <supermop_> also would be great if deciduous trees could lose leaves in autumn/winter
16:48:25 <_dp_> since trees from mapgen will mostly be "random" so zip can compress it nicely, and user is unlikely to plant a lot of specific trees in random patterns
16:49:56 <Wolf01> and what about map layers which could be compressed separately? it coule also help to remove a lot of things from the map array
16:50:04 <Wolf01> in fact you will have more map arrays
16:50:13 <Wolf01> with different features
16:51:14 <Wolf01> you could even have one layer to plan the construction
16:51:23 <_dp_> don't think having more layers will be of any help to reduce save size
16:52:02 <Wolf01> but a "tree distribution layer" could be handled differently from the current map array
16:53:02 <Wolf01> instead of having to save the position and details for every tile you might save... intersecting ovals with different sizes and tree type
16:54:17 <supermop_> Wolf01: that's sort of what i had in mind, just clouds of trees
16:54:34 <_dp_> Wolf01, position is not being saved currently, only data for all tiles consequently
16:55:09 <supermop_> could save center of cloud, or north corner, or even all corners, for odd shapes, and it would still be much smaller than saving every tile
16:56:27 <supermop_> "tile x,y - White Oak, dx: 10 tiles, dy: 21 tiles"
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16:58:13 <supermop_> or save like a closed polyline in CAD: "(x1,y1), (x2,y2), (x3,y3), ....(xn,yn) - Blue Spruce"
16:58:33 <supermop_> maybe extra bits for average age or something
16:59:18 <_dp_> I think you're overcomplicating things, if you want more tree-centered approach then repeat mapgen for initial trees and then only save player modifications
16:59:27 <supermop_> or not even save the species and let game of a tree newgrf provide rules guiding how to plant trees given that area
16:59:58 <Samu> otvi server is "about" to finish
17:01:06 <supermop_> _dp_: my aim is less about reduced save size, more about a more interesting or smart tree placement, that hopefully has the added benefit of also reducing the 'noisiness' of trees
17:03:25 <Wolf01> if we could have a save size of 6MB instead of 4MB (no trees) and 19MB (original) it will really be an improvement
17:04:22 <_dp_> supermop_, it needs some checking, but imo currently most noisiness comes from variety of trees types/state, not from their location
17:05:08 <_dp_> location seems to follow some patterns more or less, which is ok for zip
17:05:33 <Samu> i believe i used default saving, lzma:2
17:05:36 <supermop_> _dp_: but you could save that by not listing each tree's species, just have a cloud that says "trees in this area are pines"
17:06:01 <Samu> i did that test 2 months ago
17:07:11 <_dp_> supermop_, you don't need areas for that. just put that "pines" in map array instead of specific types
17:07:37 <_dp_> and for compressing groups of pines, zip will do fine
17:08:10 <Samu> it's zlib or lzma or lzo, there's no zip
17:10:06 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: hi. Concerning the server version - are you on windows?
17:12:36 <supermop_> at the moment i am at work
17:12:57 <_dp_> like, generally speaking working with areas may be better, it's just a lot more complex approach and I don't believe anyone will ever do it)
17:13:00 <supermop_> but both work and home computers teen to be 64 but win 7
17:14:15 <Alkel_U3> hm, that's a bit more difficult environment for patching from git and compiling the source
17:14:37 <Alkel_U3> I'll try if the server is ok with changing the version midgame
17:14:55 <_dp_> while introducing a few special values for random types is pretty minor change
17:17:01 <_dp_> and btf tree type can even be made a function of map seed and tile coordinates, that way it will stay the same even after reload
17:17:08 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: i can wait for the next round
17:17:32 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: it has daylength 5 - it will be a long, long wait :D
17:18:44 <Alkel_U3> although I regret not making the map bigger - this setting could see the 1024^2 size as still cozy
17:21:01 <Alkel_U3> and it's much easier to make money - I'm considering a third instance :-)
17:22:21 <supermop_> 1024 is fine on my work computer, but to be honest my laptop at home struggles with anything bigger than that
17:23:20 <Alkel_U3> I chose smaler map for gameplay-wise reasons. The server should handle bigger maps fine
17:24:44 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: your server might, but my client can't
17:25:33 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: what's inside your laptop? I could understand if it was an atom or a lower-end Core 2...
17:25:50 <supermop_> 6 years of junk i guess
17:26:11 <supermop_> it's been overheating easily a lot recently too
17:26:41 <supermop_> and ram gets maxed out on any large ottd map, especially if chrome is also running
17:27:09 <Samu> they're the biggest cpu offenders for me
17:27:33 <supermop_> cpu is ok, except for when it overheats
17:27:52 <Alkel_U3> a friend of mine has a dell work laptop with hawell i7 and a radeon graphics - if left unchecked while playing something demanding, it's guaranteed to turn off soon :D
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17:28:00 <supermop_> its a circa 2010 i7, don't remember any specs off the top of my head
17:28:12 <Alkel_U3> (happened even during factorio MP)
17:28:38 <supermop_> i forget what gpu i have as well
17:28:57 <supermop_> it was certainly a nice vaio in 2010
17:29:18 <Samu> openttd.exe -b 8bpp-optimized
17:29:31 <Samu> i used this on my Athlon XP 2700+
17:29:39 <supermop_> also the ssd on it is almost entirely full
17:29:59 <Samu> then turned off full animation, it became much better
17:30:18 <Samu> while in the game, don't zoom out too much
17:30:32 <Samu> forbit it from zooming out , think there's a setting there
17:31:22 <supermop_> and haven't made the time to sit down and clear it out
17:31:54 <supermop_> i feel like its so old i don't want to sink a lot of time on it though, would be better to just buy a new computer
17:31:59 <Samu> but if the server you join doesn't pause on join, then catching up will still be problematic
17:32:35 <supermop_> seeing as i need to do rhino work for freelance occasionally, and rendering is really tough on that old machine
17:33:16 <supermop_> but i've been just about broke for most of the last 3 years as something keeps coming up to spend all my disposable money on
17:35:33 <_dp_> is there any tool to check savegame parts size?
17:35:54 <_dp_> or at least something to work with savegames
17:36:17 <Alkel_U3> well I got a GTX 560Ti from a friend. My budget would constrain me from gettin something half-decent. The rest is pretty budget :-)
17:37:49 <supermop_> like moving to australia, then moving back from australia etc
17:39:07 <Alkel_U3> except the PSU - I retained that as a leftower from an attemt to get money mining litecoin. So now I have a PC which could be well content with a 400W PSU being powered by a 1,2kW 80 Platinum plus monster :D
17:41:12 <Samu> i use a program named Process Lasso on that Athlon rig
17:41:29 <Samu> makes the system more responsive
17:42:06 <Samu> doesn't necessarily improve performance, it works with process priorities
17:42:24 <Samu> it "governs" process priorities
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17:42:49 <Samu> kinda helps, but I recognize that system is really old for web browsing
17:42:56 <Wolf01> heh, he was extremely quick today
17:43:32 <Alkel_U3> wow, I'd almost forget. I used that too, back on an old 2002 Pentium 4 with XP. It objectively helped.
17:43:44 <supermop_> i wonder if i can convince my boss to help pay for a new computer so i can do more work from home
17:44:09 <Samu> oh, I'm using windows 7 on it
17:45:05 <Samu> athlon xp is about from the same age, 2003
17:47:51 <Alkel_U3> well, I see more powerfull computers being decommisioned and thrown away nowadays. Heck, I even got my hands on some intel miniitx boards with sandybridge i3s on them
17:48:47 <Samu> according to microsoft, that athlon xp is eligible for windows 10 update too... :(
17:54:00 <Samu> i tried a 4096x4096 map generated on it
17:54:38 <Samu> tried a 2048x2048 - it's playable, but... hardly acceptable
17:54:59 <Samu> 1024x2048 can be dealt with, fine
17:58:35 <Alkel_U3> when I transfered to OpenTTD large maps were just becoming a thing, I think. I instantly chose 2048^2 with daylength 10 and ~100tile min city distance and built stuff all over it :D
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18:02:01 <Samu> _dp_: savegame_format = lzma:6, my bad, maybe i should restest
18:06:59 <Samu> oh wow, i just triggered a weird bug
18:07:27 <Samu> saved with name tree_placer = 0, savegame_format = lzma:0
18:07:38 <Samu> :0 wasn't put into the name
18:07:43 <Samu> and it didn't close the file
18:08:44 <Samu> generated a 0 bytes save
18:12:39 <_dp_> hm, getaddrinfo for hostname "/dev/fd/63", port 3979, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type tcp failed: Name or service not known
18:12:49 <_dp_> why can openttd -D suddenly stop working?
18:14:18 <_dp_> after I used <(echo test) but that was in other terminal
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18:26:02 <Samu> lol, lzo is so brutally fast
18:29:05 <_dp_> did some tests, of MAPn layers size in savegame
18:29:11 <_dp_> without trees: [58712, 49064, 65012, 57148, 100868, 32604, 17188]
18:29:22 <_dp_> with trees: [59204, 342480, 277832, 57004, 335060, 32640, 17012]
18:29:35 <_dp_> on temperate with same seed
18:32:05 <_dp_> didn't check MAPT but looks like it adds another 120000
18:36:40 <_dp_> so in total for trees: 120k - location, 393k - ground << 6 | density << 4, 212k - tree type, 234k - count << 6 | growth.
18:44:09 <Wolf01> I ate fried frogs yesterday, just fyi ;)
18:47:07 <frosch123> i wonder, do people who eat dogs distinguish them from wolfs?
18:49:10 <Wolf01> I don't know, I'm not from the far east
18:52:13 <Samu> Wormnest: do you want Otvi log?
18:52:30 <Samu> its a 59 MB txt file :) and i didn't saved all of it
18:52:39 <supermop_> frosch123: i imagine it is more difficult to get the wolf to eat
18:52:47 <Wolf01> mmmh, today is a beautiful sunny day but the sky is rumbling... /me checks the other side of the house... oh... there it is, it looks like Mordor
18:53:30 <supermop_> and traditionally dogs are only eaten as a famine food in desperate times, not likely to be a bunch of wolves around then
18:53:39 <Alberth> house right at the border :)
18:55:31 <_dp_> adding "random" type of tree will make it 940k save, 360k extra instead of 860k
18:56:41 <Wolf01> is it me or numbers don't match?
18:59:04 <frosch123> both wolfs and frogs can be eaten when there is famine. but usually they are eaten as "something special"
18:59:15 <_dp_> 940 = 360(trees) + 580(rest)
18:59:50 <Wolf01> oh frogs here are a delicacy :)
19:00:23 <_dp_> 1440(current save) = 860(trees currently) + 580(rest)
19:00:30 <supermop_> what often starts as 'emergency only' food becomes delicacy after a few centuries or melinnia
19:00:33 <frosch123> supermop_: not that i care whether people eat dogs, pigs or cows
19:01:01 <frosch123> i like chicken though :p
19:01:03 <supermop_> but i doubt there were many easy to catch wolves about in china last year or 1000 years ago
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19:02:33 <supermop_> but human societies generally avoid eating apex predators except in exceptional circumstances
19:04:32 <Samu> _dp_ could you make compression multi-threaded?
19:04:57 <Samu> it starts a new save process, but the compression itself is still single-threaded
19:07:51 <Alberth> meh, why is fios so freaking complicated?
19:08:53 <frosch123> i also wondered about that :)
19:09:43 <frosch123> i think it is due to the arcane state machine that is used to "switch modes" when loading a game or scenario
19:09:46 <Wormnest> Samu: no thanks I´m fine without it :)
19:10:32 <Alberth> too many weird globals, and weird enums that are mostly duplicate but not quite
19:17:28 <Samu> otviai finished!! without crashing, just making the server miserably slow
19:18:13 <Wormnest> I like that noCAB reuses rail tracks but it´s not optimal if three routes come together shortly before a long tunnel :)
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19:31:01 <Samu> hoho, for the first time lzma:9 compressed more than lzma:8, 7 and 6
19:31:36 <Samu> it needs mucho trees to to it!
19:34:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27600 trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp (2016-06-13 19:34:18 +0200 )
19:34:26 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] shift-and-add-divide/modulo varadjusts use signed division/modulo.
19:37:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you have some kind of list for ancient bugs in arcane newgrf features, which noone uses?
19:37:27 <frosch123> (except in this case NML trying to be clever)
19:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27601 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-06-13 19:45:37 +0200 )
19:45:45 <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 4 changes by Absay
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20:05:45 <Samu> i count a total of 27 AIs that make use of road vehicles
20:06:14 <Samu> without counting town cars stuff, i dont like that
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20:17:46 <supermop_> andy is doing trucks or legos today?
20:18:30 <ST2> he mixed them... doing lego trucks :P
20:25:19 <supermop_> i got another quote from a second contractor for this deck i am designing. instead of being 10kUSD over budget, now it is 35k over budget
20:34:54 <andythenorth> how do I break an ebay habit?
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20:38:41 <supermop_> andythenorth: run out of money
20:39:53 <supermop_> no more vintage braun finds
20:40:16 <andythenorth> if I buy enough stuff to run out of money that is a real problem
20:40:28 <andythenorth> I don’t buy enough to do that
20:40:47 <andythenorth> nah, I’m only buying US HO trains on UK ebay
20:40:51 <andythenorth> there aren’t that many good ones
20:40:52 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: I'm resetting the server
20:41:01 <andythenorth> and I have price limits
20:41:10 <andythenorth> but within those rules, I buy everything I see
20:41:23 <andythenorth> because only one or two things come up most days
20:41:34 <supermop_> andythenorth: i wonder if i still have my old HO stuff in my parent basement
20:42:41 <supermop_> i had a cool set of steel beams to make an under construction HO scale building
20:42:52 <supermop_> well maroon plastic, not steel
20:44:17 <supermop_> some UP locomotive, and one santa fe chief thing
20:44:51 <supermop_> i don't know enough about US locomotives to know what the famous one of those was
20:45:01 <andythenorth> V453000: good error
20:47:29 <supermop_> i need a N layout to run my little 08 around on
20:49:27 <supermop_> dont even need any stock
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20:55:25 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: work internet being slow, downloading pp now
20:55:53 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: me being slow, too - I compiled or patched wrong dir again
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21:13:21 <frosch123> why all the hype about vr? ottd hashad rv for years
21:14:05 <V453000> openttd's rv is probably too shit
21:14:30 <V453000> you need some oculus roadhog DLC to make it work properly
21:14:36 <Rubidium> isn't OpenTTD VR by definititon?
21:14:56 <V453000> I'm not being serious at all Rubidium :P
21:14:56 <Samu> some dudes who joined epictrans server made him bankrupt
21:15:11 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: there's still eGRVTS?
21:15:35 <Samu> the AI is always respawning
21:19:16 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: are you sure you got the right server? I have it available
21:20:40 <supermop_> only alkel patchpack server i found
21:21:38 <Alkel_U3> I even see it in the server details - fourth grf from bottom
21:24:57 <supermop_> still downloading pineapple btw
21:25:28 <supermop_> usually stick to 8 bit stuff so this is taking a quite a bit longer to download
21:33:01 <Alkel_U3> I'd actually like it more if it was an 8bit set. I just like it because it's nice non-complicated alternative to the base set with vaguely similar feel
21:35:20 <Alkel_U3> I've been thinking about that one, but I don't like the feel of the americanish roster that much :-)
21:35:36 <supermop_> horse has an american roster?
21:36:33 <Alkel_U3> what the hell did I confuse it with
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21:37:26 <andythenorth> Horse is how Pikka would have made a set if Pikka was me and Dan
21:37:30 <Alkel_U3> yeah, ok, next game has horse :D
21:40:09 <andythenorth> blearch, stuck on a silly code decision
21:40:52 <Alkel_U3> by the way, if I got it correctly, antelope will be a different, wild-westish or tropicalish based roster for horse?
21:41:24 <andythenorth> West Africa, by way of fiction and invention
21:41:35 <andythenorth> matches to In A Hot Country economy in FIRS
21:41:48 <andythenorth> needs an RV set too :P
21:42:47 <Alkel_U3> I liked Tropical Refurbishment set - had a nice feel, but I found it struggling with some FIRS cargoes
21:43:05 <Alkel_U3> s/struggling/not being compatible/
21:43:13 <andythenorth> I have the sprites for that and have used a few for inspiration in Antelope
21:44:08 <andythenorth> so eh, I need to associate some list elements with preceeding elements in the list. I could use (1) indexes (where sometimes it’s non-trivial to figure out what the index value should be) or (2) arbitrary labels to connect the list elements (provider / consumer)
21:44:12 <Alkel_U3> RVs will be awesome, too. I'm kinda getting bored with eGRVTS. Ships of SQUID are still pretty new and good to me, though :-)
21:44:21 <andythenorth> Squid is terrible
21:44:46 <andythenorth> it will do for now
21:44:50 <andythenorth> NewShips is ok too
21:44:56 <andythenorth> the original newgrf
21:45:41 <Alkel_U3> Newships is great, except for the part where all vehicles become obsolete and you can't buy ships anymore
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21:51:11 <Alkel_U3> now I really could use indentation in vehicle orders menu. I used just 4 conditionals jumping back and forth and I'm already lost at it :D
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21:53:27 <Wolf01> andythenorth, yes, nice details
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21:55:50 <Samu> you can build a bridge over a bridge ramp?
21:56:09 <Alkel_U3> also over tunnel portal
21:57:20 <Samu> nice, my bad, was confusing it as a bug somehow
21:58:12 <Alkel_U3> but you still can't build a brisge over a volcano :(
21:58:33 <Alkel_U3> mostly because there is no volcano
21:58:57 <Alberth> nothing that a newobject can't fix :p
21:59:18 <Alkel_U3> oh yeah, I also forgot about those! :D
21:59:25 <Alberth> or even a sign with "volcano" on it :p
22:01:21 <supermop_> keep losing connection when trying to join server, i think work internet is worthless today
22:01:48 <Alkel_U3> what's your ping, anyway?
22:02:24 <Alkel_U3> (that should be close to the server)
22:02:35 <supermop_> we are resetting our switch
22:02:42 <supermop_> whole office having trouble
22:08:35 <Samu> rondje is gonna bankrupt
22:09:01 <andythenorth> Wolf01: train :P
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22:16:24 <Rubidium> did it build its gazillion road stations?
22:16:48 <Samu> only raising and lowering loan
22:19:24 <Samu> replaced Rondje with RoadAI
22:20:31 <Samu> restarting EpicTrans server due to some trolls
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22:24:50 <Samu> it's funny that gelignAIte with 6 rvs is beating 44 rvs PAXLink
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22:45:17 <Samu> no desync error when he left
22:47:28 <V453000> rendering on 2 computers at once
22:47:54 <Wolf01> I can rent you mine if you need another one :P
22:47:54 <Samu> can some dev review my request?
22:48:16 <Alkel_U3> render faster dammit! If you type furiously fast on three keyboads at once it will work i saw it in a movie!
22:48:50 <Wolf01> the most I'm doing now is playing games and render some povrays lego models
22:50:34 <Alkel_U3> supermop: that's you who keeps unsuccessfuly trying to connect, I assume?
22:50:52 <supermop> sorry if i'm pausing your game too much
22:51:13 <Alkel_U3> that's fine, I'm just curious
22:52:13 <Samu> in essence, it is doing already what it does when a client saves the game on a server with scripts running
22:52:47 <Samu> i just made it save in this manner as well for clients joining servers
22:53:20 <Samu> I'm 95% certain it shouldn't desync
22:57:03 <supermop> Alkel_U3: giving up for today
22:57:52 <Alkel_U3> supermop: I'm gonna go to bed soon, anyway. I'm a bit affraid we'll be taking shifts during the work week :D
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23:21:45 <_dp_> just removing counter for tree tiles reduced my save size by 10%
23:24:57 <_dp_> and it's only used to count 15 ticks for each tree stage, pretty sure it can be replaced with some random tile selection like it's already done for tileloop
23:26:21 <_dp_> only issue I see is that freshly planted trees won't get their first growth exactly 15 ticks after planting
23:26:37 <supermop> Wolf01: nice open cockpit on top of the cab there, looks comfortable for long haul drives
23:26:53 <Wolf01> specially with the bad weather
23:27:49 <supermop> _dp_: it's probably more 'realistic' if trees grow in a somewhat inexact rate
23:29:54 <_dp_> supermop, not sure how's that realistic but that's a nice solution too
23:30:47 <Samu> can you try my patch _dp_?
23:31:29 <Samu> I beg for some dev to try my patch, :o
23:34:53 <_dp_> supermop, yeah, just tried Chance16(1, 15) instead of counter, don't see any major difference visually
23:35:38 <_dp_> supermop, except that planted trees grow at somewhat different speed which is expected
23:39:21 <Samu> i got a bunch of saves, testing the different compression levels and formats
23:39:50 <Samu> the "improved" tree_placer
23:40:02 <Samu> is the worst for all formats/levels
23:41:15 <Samu> lzma:9 is actually useful for the worst case scenario
23:41:20 <_dp_> oh, I didt'n use same seed for that test, it'l less than 10%, 100k of 1400
23:42:11 <Samu> I did use the same seed, then i used the same savegame to generate the other saves with different compressions
23:42:35 <_dp_> interestingly setting counter to SetTreeCounter(tile, tile & 15) takes not that much more, but is pretty ok visually
23:43:04 <_dp_> some pattern still visible on fast forward but though
23:43:47 <Samu> sec, gonna log all my results into a nice .txt
23:46:58 <_dp_> (uint64)(tile * 19) & 15 is much better, almost no difference
23:47:26 <_dp_> and can be used with unpatched clients
continue to next day ⏵
