IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-06-10
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00:12:44 <Samu> ah, another problem is when shutting down the system after it woke up from hybernation. It does not turn off the USB devices
00:13:10 <Samu> i see mouse lights still on, the keyboard num lock light also on
00:14:06 <greeter> can't blame you after that kind of experience
00:15:09 <Samu> but k, it works, and i know how to handle it in these situations
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01:15:14 <Samu> terron server will be the first to reach 2051
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09:53:05 <edgar> hello is there anyone currently online that could help me out with a compile issue i am having on visual studio 2015?
10:03:25 <edgar> i have installed openttd useful 6.0 correctly i believe. i put the shared include files into C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\include and the win64 files into the C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\lib\amd64 folder what am i doing wrong
10:18:19 <edgar> hi and i found out that i can compile in 32 bit just not x64 uggghhh oh well 32 it is for now i hate giving up
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10:57:45 <Wolf01> mmmm V453000, the 0.12.34/35 disappeared again from steam, I only have 0.12.33 on the dropdown, wtf?
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12:52:15 <Samu> I found a not-really-a-bug with company road vehicle list
12:52:35 <Samu> there is the list with groups, and the list without groups
12:53:15 <Samu> the list with groups can have the size reduced to only 4 road vehicles, the other without groups, can only be reduced to 6
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13:01:14 <V453000> sounds wtf Wolf01 , no clue
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13:21:21 <Samu> according to Path of Exile devs, steam doesn't cope well with versions being released too often
13:21:47 <Samu> same issue maybe with that game?
13:22:36 <Wolf01> PoE releases 4 times at day, every time I run steam there's a PoE update
13:23:56 <Wolf01> I think Factorio 0.12.35 became the new stable, so they removed the test branches
13:25:56 <Samu> i dont know the size of Factorio
13:26:28 <Samu> PoE updates a big .ggpk file, a 7GB file everytime they need to patch it... steam does not like it
13:27:54 <Samu> it annoys me that they release hotfixes every new seasons
13:29:09 <Samu> besides, they're releasing too many useless mtx content that only bogs down performance
15:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't PoE have like 20 hotfixes after each release?
15:12:03 <Samu> 2 AIs have finished the 100 year test
15:13:40 <Samu> i'm retesting nocab without autosaving, and passworded so no one joins
15:14:02 <Samu> i'm retesting roadrunner, because of a bug with company 0
15:16:31 <Samu> and today i started 3 new AIs, teshinet, cluelessplus and borkai
15:16:58 <Samu> currently running all 8 servers, so 8 AIs
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15:33:46 <Samu> i swear i uploaded it as .png
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16:01:23 <Samu> otvi server is extremely slow :(
16:01:51 <Samu> I was hoping it would improve
16:01:59 <Samu> but it's becoming slower and slower
16:02:40 <Samu> by the look of it, it will take 3 more days to finish
16:03:25 <Alberth> it doesn't like large maps?
16:12:56 <_dp_> god I hate openttd strings, formatting smth like time is a nightmare
16:19:23 <Samu> no, it doesn't seem to be map size issue
16:19:43 <Samu> it was running fine all the way to 5000, once it got there, it started slowing down majorly
16:20:08 <Samu> but now it's so slow, to the point it pains me to watch it
16:21:44 <Samu> mogulai also seems to be slowing down, but not that bad as otvi
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16:24:38 <Samu> admiralai also had 5000 rvs and didn't slow like that
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16:35:07 <supermop_> half day of work today, but have no work to do
16:35:44 <supermop_> had to rush to get everything out earlier in the week, so now just waiting to hear back from clients and contractors
16:36:19 <supermop_> would be a good day to volunteer some more pixel bashing but andy's not here
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16:46:18 <_dp_> is there any control code that just consumes argument without printing anything? I'm sick of dragging STR_EMPTY everywhere %)
16:46:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a {SKIP} but it was removed/deprecated
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16:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure why, though
16:48:58 <_dp_> and strings always requiring same number of arguments makes it rly annoying
16:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (where "not entirely sure" means "i strongly disagree")
17:00:46 <_dp_> wonder if I can use plural forms to do leading zeros...
17:08:13 <Samu> im spying inside openttd.exe servers
17:09:01 <Samu> i/o priority, handles, gdi handles
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17:11:50 <Samu> i dont know what to look at
17:14:37 <Samu> wanted to figure out why otvi was so slow
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17:22:37 <Samu> gonna try debuglevel script=9, see what it prints
17:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> leading zeroes make no sense without a monospace font anyway
17:27:20 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, not always true: 16:05
17:28:55 <_dp_> but yeah, doesn't seem to be possible with plurals sadly
17:29:05 <_dp_> had to do all combinations of leading zeros for time
17:29:17 <Samu> why is otvi trying airports? i disabled it
17:30:06 <Samu> dayum, otvi log just filled 1 MB of text in a matter of minutes
17:33:05 <Wormnest> I guess it doesn´t check what´s enabled or not
17:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: have you checked how the timetable/24h patches do this?
17:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: anyway, leading zeros is not something you should handle in the string, but in the GUI code.
17:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> like, adjust the code for {DATE} to handle time formats
17:41:13 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, no, but patches can do more stuff
17:41:31 <_dp_> I'm not making a patch, just a gs, sort of
17:42:07 <_dp_> and strings is all gs have for gui :(
17:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can request a code change if you have a proper case
17:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of getting lost in workarounds
17:43:24 <_dp_> what I'd really like to see for code change is using python formatting syntax or smth like that
17:43:31 <_dp_> don't think that even gonna happen
17:44:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, printf formatting is a bit too dangerous to expose to user provided content
17:44:19 <_dp_> and current system is just way too limited, I have to do workarounds all the time :(
17:45:55 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, what's wrong with printf formatting? I'd say it's implementation that's dangerous
17:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there are some questional bits in printf
17:49:44 <supermop_> this thing looks cute:
17:50:49 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, can't think of any but whatever, I like new python style more (in c++ fmt:: uses it)
17:51:52 <supermop_> scratch build some EMUs with every bogie powered?
17:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: even then, combining that with the openttd language system is tricky
17:57:17 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, that's why I don't see it ever happening)
17:58:06 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, honesly, what I miss the most is ability to include raw strings
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17:58:14 <_dp_> which is disabled for whatever reason
17:58:43 <_dp_> like that time I already have as string, could pass it no problem
17:58:50 <Alberth> storage of displayed text, I think
17:59:19 <_dp_> Alberth, no, it can store raw strings
17:59:40 <_dp_> Alberth, there is just if (game_script) break;
17:59:54 <_dp_> gs can't use raw strings, period
18:01:04 <Alberth> well, there is the 'free raw string afterwards' problem
18:01:11 <Alberth> especially after loading a save game
18:03:25 <Samu> i think borkai has a memory leak, it has yet to stop rising mem usage
18:03:42 <_dp_> Alberth, not sure it even needs to be allocated, it's already stored inside the encoded string
18:04:39 <_dp_> Alberth, also, looks to me that's already solved
18:06:36 <_dp_> Alberth, sub_args_need_free[i] = true
18:08:07 <_dp_> Alberth, from what I can see there is all code for raw strings, if not for that one if they would work just fine
18:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: now hunt down when that line was added, and check out why it was added
18:12:05 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, I think I even did that once...
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18:19:10 <_dp_> that commit description doesn't rly explain why it has to ban raw strings...
18:19:46 <_dp_> though I probably see how they can be dangerous with current implementation
18:19:56 <_dp_> which doesn't mean they can't be done properly
18:22:06 <_dp_> in case of gs simply tracking allocated raw string pointers and checking them before use would solve the problem
18:23:16 <_dp_> though would be nice to use strings from openttd lang files too
18:24:20 <Samu> ah rats, print screen doesn't detect the real virtual resolution, i'll do it with bandicam
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18:46:55 <Rubidium> _dp_: StringIDs in openttd are ints (from compiling on) and the value that belongs to a particular string is undefined in the grand scheme of things (I can say in r12345 STR_BLA = 100, but that doesn't mean it's 100 in r12344 or r12346)
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18:49:55 <greeter> greetings openttd :-D
18:50:34 <Samu> I don't usually consider road piece usage amount, but gee... NoCAB is horrible
18:50:48 <_dp_> Rubidium, yeah, I know that. not saying it should be done simply by passing string id around)
18:51:03 <Samu> nocab is orange in that screenshot
18:51:25 <Samu> i wonder what it will look like when it gets to 2050
18:54:48 <frosch123> next time use green
18:58:19 <Samu> 296,211 road pieces for nocab
18:58:47 <Samu> 75,210 road pieces for otvi
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19:00:27 <Samu> an teshinet is the clean one with 13,781 pieces
19:01:02 <Samu> but he doesn't have that many vehicles yet, he's kinda slow compared with the others
19:02:46 <Samu> actually, i got a feeling he crashed, let me check
19:03:40 <Samu> dbg: [script] [0] [S] Your script made an error: the index 'station_id' does not exist
19:04:11 <Samu> okay, stopping his server
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19:12:27 <Samu> Wormnest: TeshiNet crashed, do you have a suggested AI to test?
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19:17:22 <Samu> TeshiNet, 1st Apr 1967.sav last month he was alive
19:17:36 <Samu> and the server was already in 1977
19:19:36 <Samu> nice, it crashes shortly after with the same error, think i can report this
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19:44:57 <Samu> teshinet version is that on bananas
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19:45:30 <Mazur> Nah, just looking out of curiosity, not looking to help you here.
19:47:52 <andythenorth> chibi trucks are too short
19:47:57 <andythenorth> non-chibi trucks are too long
19:48:00 <andythenorth> silly old game :P
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19:49:59 <Alkel_U3> hm. My openttd.cfg has close to twice as many lines as a fresh one from all the patchpacks I've been playing with in last 3 years
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19:55:42 * andythenorth waited a week before redrawing all trucks, again
19:55:45 <andythenorth> wise move perhaps
20:01:10 <supermop_> 3 hours ago i was bored and itching to mess about with pixels, andythenorth
20:03:02 <supermop_> almost the end of half-workday
20:03:31 <supermop_> actually technically its already over but i ended up having one more thing to do at last minute
20:03:54 <supermop_> and now i am fantasizing about a N or Z gauge tram layup
20:06:05 <supermop_> just a little thing that could sit on a shelf - maybe a plank of nice australian hardwood, with some brass rails CNC routed into it
20:07:14 <supermop_> prototyped on this:
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20:09:04 <andythenorth> I keep thinking of building some micro train layout
20:15:16 <supermop_> looks very american andy
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20:15:16 <supermop_> need some BR large logo EMD units in there
20:19:49 <Wormnest> Samu: DictatorAI sounds fine although it tends to crash too not sure which rv AI you haven´t had yet
20:23:48 <Samu> nice, i wasn't aware of that article
20:27:43 <supermop_> you've got some free track space until the tail of the train
20:29:34 <Alkel_U3> that remids me of that guy who tried to use a looping superlong train for high-throughput belt replacement in Factorio
20:29:52 <Samu> brokai ram usage is already in 4.1 GB
20:30:35 <Samu> I hope it doesn't take all of the 16 GB
20:32:02 <mz-e520> pro tip: when you're laying down electrified track, don't accidentally make one of the ten or so stations you put down first non-electrified
20:32:17 <mz-e520> "Train 21 is lost" >_<
20:32:38 <greeter> i always laugh when i get messages like that. i always think "It's on a set of tracks, how can it be lost?"
20:33:31 <greeter> my own game is a farce right now. i just spent 8 million dollars bribing town authorities. not exactly a sound business strategy
20:35:11 <mz-e520> amused at: 1. demolish one building. 2. plant a load of trees to make the authorities happy again. 3. goto 1
20:35:23 <mz-e520> that'll teach them to put a town where i needed my track to go
20:35:43 <mz-e520> (the town was completely eliminated)
20:35:46 <greeter> done that a few times lol
20:35:55 <greeter> oh lol, never completely razed the town
20:36:20 <mz-e520> they wouldn't have wanted to live next to the oil refinery anyway
20:37:19 <greeter> i know there's a couple of refineries in my current game they wouldn't have wanted to be close to. there's one i have like 20 trains servicing right now
20:39:42 <mz-e520> they do seem to eat resources, i could never get enough oil into them
20:43:21 <greeter> i can't get enough trains into this one. the refinery is putting out anywhere from 1,200 to 1,600 goods crates per month
20:43:59 <Alkel_U3> meanwhile, I'm almost done setting up my own server
20:44:20 <greeter> nice :-D can't wait to help test it
20:44:22 <Alkel_U3> I shown my lazy who's the boss today :P
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20:47:10 <greeter> course the oil fields seem to be pretty high yield for the most part. some of them are even producing upwards of 50 passengers per month
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21:00:17 <Alkel_U3> I'm not sure if FIRS 2 Extreme is good for MP but there aren't that many to try out :P
21:00:56 <ST2> we have 2 with FIRS 2, and Extreme :P
21:01:00 <greeter> lol that's ok, i expect to have my dreams crushed in this game, kind of like going to work for subway :-P
21:01:33 <Alkel_U3> ST2: but with some sort of citibuilder or goal script, right?
21:02:08 <andythenorth> extreme is daft :P
21:02:14 <andythenorth> unless you have some GS
21:02:50 <ST2> should be fun with BusyBee ;)
21:03:25 <Alkel_U3> probably, but I let beer guide my hand on this for now :-)
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21:07:02 <Alkel_U3> I would not neccesarily use the word 'always' :P
21:19:27 <supermop> now that i am home for the weekend, i will also beer
21:20:24 <supermop> andythenorth: they just pile it higher in there
21:20:37 <Alkel_U3> I'm really looking forward to those. I've been playing way too many games only with eGRVTS
21:20:42 <V453000> BUT 2 IS SAME AS 4, UNLEASH RIOT
21:20:51 <V453000> and yeah, just make cargo heaps differ
21:21:28 <Alkel_U3> if you beer too much, you need a belt
21:22:09 <Alkel_U3> and... why not both?
21:22:21 <supermop> i need a belt because i havent beered enough last few years
21:22:27 <supermop> and now my pants are too big
21:22:45 <Alkel_U3> well, you need to beer just right :-)
21:23:33 <supermop> but i have some rudimentary belt sprites and want to play a game where i can dump off piles of ore and watch it get steadily fed into a mill
21:24:12 <supermop> also: need to pick up a suit i had altered
21:27:01 <Samu> just had dinner, borkai ram usage is 4.6 GB
21:27:43 <Alkel_U3> lucky RAM is so cheap, eh? :P
21:28:27 <supermop> i want to play a multiplayer game where i can build a somewhat intricate passenger network with others, and not have it melt my computer due to being 2048^2 map
21:28:41 <Alkel_U3> Well, I had to upgrade from 6 to 12 GiB recently when I put some mods into Cities: Skylines. It bit off 9 GiB right off the start
21:30:00 <Alkel_U3> I'm aware there might be more resource-intensive games than this, but for me it's still kinda hard to grasp that a game would need that much :D
21:30:06 <Samu> i dunno, something is wrong with borkai, average ram usage for the other AI games is ~300MB
21:30:38 <Samu> even NoCAB is at a much lower ram usage
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21:34:18 <supermop__> yo Alkel_U3 what are the settings on your server
21:34:30 <Alkel_U3> ok, so I spent 20 mins searching for the tar that contains pb_trax.grf to find out it isn't in content_download but the other manual directory for some reason and now I realized I don't actually want/need this grf in this setup
21:34:54 <supermop__> slash can i join it
21:35:14 <Alkel_U3> sure, I'm almost done
21:36:13 <Alkel_U3> then you can look yourself - I'm not sure if pasting the openttd.cfg would be helpful :D
21:37:12 <supermop__> the server i found is locked
21:37:40 <supermop__> ok i'll grab a beer while you work
21:39:59 <Alkel_U3> yeah, I've been reseting it every few minutes so I didn't want to disappoint anyone who would join. But i left it advertised so I have easier time testing it from a client :-)
21:41:06 <Alkel_U3> oh crap, I destroyed last cold beer. Gotta fill up the fridge
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21:46:39 <Alkel_U3> I thought I'd be gettin enough for the weekend. I'm naive.
21:49:11 <Alkel_U3> greeter, supermop__: it finally seems to be bent according to my wishes, have a look if you wish
21:53:56 <Alkel_U3> although, on the other hand, I might have made tha map a tad bigger or the industry a bit less scarce :D
22:06:18 <andythenorth> maybe the gen 4 truck (40t, last one in the list) should be longer?
22:06:30 <supermop__> damnit breakdowns on?
22:08:13 <Alkel_U3> yeah, I find a lot of people not liking those but I don't like it when there's nothing enforcing not running a 50 yrs old engine
22:08:35 <andythenorth> shorter cab, longer body? o_O
22:08:37 <andythenorth> or longer truck?
22:14:47 <andythenorth> V453000: commentatory plz? ^
22:20:50 <Wolf01> he can't, too much 0.13 hype :P
22:21:19 <supermop__> my damn boats keep breaking down
22:21:20 <Alkel_U3> seriously, where is it
22:21:39 <Alkel_U3> my damn trai keep not doing much profit :P
22:21:55 <Alkel_U3> how can I miss so many letters
22:23:26 <supermop__> also should have started with shorter trains, these 5 tile ones are taking too long to load, so they break down once they set off
22:23:33 <Alkel_U3> also I blew large portion of my money right at the start on going through rock tiles, which is now as expensive as building on water (which is even more expensive). Which I forgot about
22:24:40 <Alkel_U3> also I should have mentioned that terraforming is prohibitevly expensive
22:25:48 <supermop__> also i set up this aluminum -> bldg mat. -> bulk terminal -> bauxite chain to have lots of transfers, so now i have a tone of vehicles that cant make any profit until the process bootstraps a bit
22:26:15 <Alkel_U3> arrgh, also I accidentaly gave the cargo train a pax engine :/
22:26:52 <supermop__> and of course the critical link are these slow as hell ships
22:26:54 <Alkel_U3> s/accidentaly/ignorantly/
22:27:48 <Alkel_U3> ok, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who made several poor decisions :D
22:29:06 <Alkel_U3> althoughmine might be poorer
22:31:39 <supermop__> hopefully this tram will keep me solvent until this metal starts to pay off
22:32:37 <Wolf01> you are making me want to start a new ottd game, but I already have 4 other games to play
22:33:07 <Wolf01> or 459 if I count steam ones
22:33:25 <Alkel_U3> aand I sold the engine without checking if I can buy a replacement
22:35:56 <Alkel_U3> not entirely, I had enough money from selling the tracks to set up a short intercity tram
22:36:21 <Alkel_U3> but it will be ages before I can afford to expand :(
22:37:48 <Alkel_U3> wow, the beer really adds on difficuilty :D
22:38:03 <Alkel_U3> now I see much better spots to set up the route
22:42:47 <Alkel_U3> nah, I'm going to die anyway
22:44:02 <andythenorth> stupid trucks :P
22:47:33 <supermop__> ok buying a passenger train was a mistake, this town only produces 40 at most
22:48:35 <Alkel_U3> yeah, the town set is kinda cargodist compatible :D
22:50:55 <Alkel_U3> aaand I'm screwed completely :P
22:52:06 <Alkel_U3> tried to rebuild the tram to horse-drawn carriages to cut down on infrastucture maintenance - can't even build the last required piece of road between the depot and road
22:53:27 <supermop__> hope you dont want an 810 ton frisco bay freighter
22:53:53 <supermop__> because i got exclusive trial of a ship i'll never be able to afford
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22:59:10 <Samu> question, which blitter mode would be the least cpu intensive, in theory
23:00:07 <Samu> ok, will try, it's for spectating
23:00:23 <supermop__> got an offer to buy you out, but i can't afford it!
23:00:38 <Alkel_U3> likewise, a few months ago :P
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23:01:04 <Alkel_U3> in my case, there's not much to buy, appart of the debt :P
23:02:17 <Samu> i dont have 8bpp no anim
23:02:39 <Samu> List of blitters: 32bpp-anim: 32bpp Animation Blitter (palette animation) 32bpp-optimized: 32bpp Optimized Blitter (no palette animation) 32bpp-simple: 32bpp Simple Blitter (no palette animation) 32bpp-sse2: 32bpp SSE2 Blitter (no palette animation) 32bpp-sse4: 32bpp SSE4 Blitter (no palette animation) 32bpp-sse4-anim: SSE4 Blitter (palette animation) 32bpp-ssse3: 32bpp SSSE3 Blitter (no palette ani
23:03:21 <Samu> 8bpp-optimized: 8bpp Optimized Blitter (compression + all-ZoomLevel cache) 8bpp-simple: 8bpp Simple Blitter (relative slow, but never wrong) null: Null Blitter (does nothing)
23:03:55 <glx> or any 32bpp without anim
23:03:57 <Samu> ok, ty, then i turn animation off
23:04:06 <_dp_> but null blitter is definitely the least cpu intensive
23:04:16 <Samu> i can't spectate with that one
23:04:48 <Alkel_U3> good, I'm out. Can try again :P
23:06:41 <_dp_> oh, and wasn't even the first one to suggest it
23:07:12 <_dp_> so many people here who are better than me in giving useless answers :p
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23:16:14 <Samu> interesting, cpu usage went down from 96-100% to about 92-95%
23:17:18 <Samu> seems like the default I am using is relatively heavy
23:18:17 <supermop__> ok i got my beer out Alkel_U3
23:18:53 <Alkel_U3> supermop__: I'll go grab some more, too, then :-)
23:21:21 <Awesome_Scampis> I'm the Snoop Dogg of buslines
23:21:23 <supermop__> really need to buy more boats to keep the rating up at these docks
23:21:39 <supermop__> might cheap with some always loading trucks
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23:23:03 <Alkel_U3> really need to buy more beer
23:23:17 <Alkel_U3> last two outside the fridge, yeesh
23:24:38 <supermop__> damn you snagged that southern hotel i had my ey on
23:24:57 <Alkel_U3> I've noticed it recently :-)
23:26:59 <Awesome_Scampis> have some beer over. Anyone want some?
23:27:13 <Alkel_U3> send it over via ctcp
23:29:11 <Alkel_U3> well, beerparty over TCP/IP isn't ass great as a real one :I
23:29:29 <Samu> borkai reached 5.00 GB ram
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23:35:42 <Awesome_Scampis> *filters land vehicle list for beer transports*
23:39:02 <supermop__> got to go to dinner soon
23:39:15 <supermop__> assuming my company wont last while i am afk
23:39:31 <Alkel_U3> I'm actually considering a midnight snack, too :P
23:41:22 *** Awesome_Scampis has quit IRC
23:41:32 <supermop__> who on here wants to be the steward of supermop transport?
23:44:09 <Alkel_U3> kinda funny how folks spring for the coal line without even looking at the cargo payment rates :P
23:46:16 <Samu> in 43 years, borkai uses 5 gb ram, how much ram would borkai use in 100 years?
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23:50:43 <Samu> hopefully no other AI starts going crazy about ram
23:51:03 <Alkel_U3> do you assume linear growth?
continue to next day ⏵
