IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-06-09
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00:13:32 <Samu> windows 10 screenshot feature fails... doesn't detect the real virtual res
00:18:46 <Samu> im also surprised imgur accepts images this big
00:25:04 <Samu> from this perpsective, it looks like Mogul is in last place
00:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause> bankrupcy is weird, because it includes the maintenance costs deducted at start of the month, so even if you're positive the whole month, you could go bankrupt
00:42:31 <Samu> yeah, maybe it could be changed, to perhaps, check in mid of a month
00:43:11 <Samu> or the last day of the month
00:51:31 <supermop_> patch to add dynamic credit scoring to the game?
00:55:21 <ST2> you can be with negative balance almost all year, less the days that amount is checked, quarterly
00:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but the problem with that is if you always spend as much cash as you can into building infrastructure, the monthly payments will kill you, even though they make only a tiny fraction of what you earn
00:56:42 <ST2> someone already suggested about admin port updates (including those checks) being done monthly, instead of quarterly
00:57:13 <ST2> and a patch was submitted
00:57:33 <ST2> we dnt use it because of admin port compatibility
00:59:39 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: you saying bank balance is only checked after all the month "discounts/expenses, that you dnt have idea to know in advance?
01:00:49 <ST2> when I play, I only worry to have a fat bank balance on the quarters change
01:01:06 <ST2> and spend the rest of the days
01:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and i never care for the date
01:01:40 <ST2> requires practice, yes ^^
01:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and that's useless...
01:02:27 <Samu> earlier today, syntrans bankrupted with 2700 vehicles
01:02:28 <ST2> how the game works, right?!
01:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> we can change how the game works.
01:02:45 <ST2> you only adjust your play habits :P
01:03:05 <ST2> yeah, Eddi, someone already tried
01:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there are situations where you do that, and there are situations where you don't.
01:03:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i should attack france, but they joined a coalition. and all the other options are not ready yet :/
01:04:30 <ST2> apply a patch to it, and police gets disabled ^^
01:05:15 <Samu> maybe i should look for the bankrupcy check in the code
01:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is not the coalition, but that nobody of my allies wants to join
01:05:47 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: I'll guess you're not talking about ttd ^^
01:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no, why would i :p
01:06:27 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: man, you're free to play what you want ^^
01:06:31 <Samu> if i can change something in there, it would be to make it check on the last day of the month
01:06:56 <Samu> to avoid those expenses things
01:07:06 <ST2> Samu: you can change and will work well on SP
01:07:28 <ST2> you can even send it to admin port
01:07:50 <ST2> but that will cause desyncs on online servers
01:08:02 <ST2> unless client is patched too
01:08:05 <Samu> oh, right... damn online servers
01:08:11 <Samu> ok, then i won't touch it
01:09:20 <ST2> CM, BTPro and n-ice custom clients have a window to count cargo delivered
01:09:59 <Samu> it must comply with onlinability
01:11:49 <ST2> I'm in favour of communities be free to provide own changed clients, since don't interfer with gameplay
01:12:10 <ST2> there's a patch (copy/Paste) tracks
01:12:30 <ST2> that can be changed to be compatible with MP games
01:12:45 <ST2> that, we consider an unfair advantage
01:12:57 <ST2> and we'll never add it on our client
01:14:25 <ST2> Samu: but you can check most of the Community clients - changes are mostly about GUI stuff
01:15:36 <ST2> CityMania client has more advanced features - the advanced ones only work on their servers (changes accordingly)
01:16:01 <ST2> can be used on Vanilla servers too, but advanced stuff won't show
01:17:07 <ST2> so, basically, there's changes you can make and keep MP compatibility... others you can't
01:17:49 <ST2> it's all about what happens on server (players interaction, etc etc)
01:18:04 <ST2> crap, I'm talking too much :P
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01:18:56 <Samu> well i know that, I don't quite like it
01:20:07 <Samu> someone could find me right away where I am building, it's quite an advantage
01:20:17 <ST2> Samu: try run Vanilla and try, for example BTPro client - all changes on the custom client are GUI stuff
01:20:32 <ST2> dnt change the game itself
01:20:46 <Samu> it's some sort of map hack for openttd
01:21:00 <supermop_> so much for competitive bidding and the free market
01:21:10 <ST2> devs don't like we call it Openttd <stable-version>
01:21:34 <ST2> but are only gui changes on client side
01:22:01 <Samu> it would be fine for server admins, but it's unfair in my opinion, for those who come to play, unles
01:22:09 <supermop_> of three contractors bidding on this job, 2 didn't even bother to show up to the site visit yesterday, and the other is bidding 10,000 over budget
01:23:08 <ST2> Samu: you can make even more changes, and that would make you the only person on advantage
01:23:26 <supermop_> and one of the no shows emailed to apologize and ask to reschedule 2 hours after the visit, and then when i suggested some times for tomorrow, has not responded to any emails, and voicemailbox is full
01:23:53 <supermop_> at least none of the stuff going wrong with the project is explicitly my fault yet
01:24:29 <ST2> supermop_: you have a gun, right?! SOLVED!!!
01:25:05 <supermop_> New Open TTD patch idea: if you build a small amount of track, it has x% chance of costing y% more than normal, because only one contractor bothered to bid, and therefore he feels like ripping you off
01:25:48 <supermop_> ST2: i think that would result in fewer contractors bidding on the job, not more
01:26:29 <ST2> supermop_: there's not a more or less concept - there's only a right value
01:26:47 <supermop_> we just need a socialist state economy with an inefficient bureaucracy in charge of building backyard decks for people
01:27:21 <ST2> we need a do'er economy... not a talker one
01:27:29 <supermop_> that way you know that it will cost exactly 200% of normal, and will be completed 10 years from schedule, nothing else to worry about
01:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: by experience, that just results in fewer things being built
01:27:41 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: exactly
01:27:59 <supermop_> at least i would know that the project would never get built in that case
01:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> also, state economies don't kill the free markets, they just go underground
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01:30:20 <supermop_> the contractors i am soliciting bids for are already about as black market as i can get and still get formal bids from
01:31:02 <supermop_> don't ask too many questions about who is doing the labor, if they are union, or even if they know what they are doing
01:31:23 <supermop_> just get a cheap (for NYC) price and pay cash
01:32:41 <supermop_> if they suggest an alternate material because they happened to get 'a great deal' on some, don't worry too much about that either
01:36:44 <supermop_> also i am guessing a shitty 'design by committee' would necessitate me being in the office until 8:00pm
01:42:44 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how free markets help avoiding a "design by committee"
01:56:40 <supermop_> maybe it is time for this committee of one to go home for the night
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12:13:24 <Samu> roadrunner has access to vehicle models way before they're introduced
12:13:56 <Samu> perry mail truck in 1990?
12:14:02 <Samu> i'm not using any newgrf
12:15:26 <Samu> i just created a company to see if i had those models available, I don't
12:17:19 <Samu> omg, no wonder he was getting quite the profits
12:20:43 <Samu> is this some hidden NoAI feature of some sorts?
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12:29:18 <Samu> about 25% of all his vehicles are models which weren't supposed to be available
12:29:37 <Samu> that's a huge chunk, considering 25% of 5000 vehicles
12:36:05 <Samu> i must check when did he start cheating, it's been 14 years at least
12:36:17 <Samu> the oldest model i can find of a vehicle
12:37:12 <Samu> roadrunner is disclassified, I can't take these tests
12:47:14 <Samu> there are more models affected
12:48:08 <Samu> chcking year 1973 and he already is using vehicle models that are only designed in 1980
12:52:11 <Samu> Revision text changed to 1.6.1-RC1, savegame version 195, not modified, _openttd_newgrf_version = 0x16106bcd
12:52:17 <Samu> from a random loaded save
12:56:08 <Samu> looks like keeping all savegames monthly was the best thing I've ever done
12:56:50 <Samu> he's cheating in 1970, i ony found out in 1991
13:00:00 <Samu> not cheating in 1955, I'm getting close to the year he started cheating
13:07:26 <Samu> RoadRunner, 1st Jan 1957.sav
13:08:06 <Samu> where do I report this? forum or flyspray?
13:15:08 <_dp_> hm, wonder how it does that, at least in 1.6.0 availability checks seem to be fine
13:15:42 <_dp_> are you sure, you're using freshly generated map, without any modifications?
13:16:10 <_dp_> like using dates cheat could break vehicle availability
13:16:57 <Samu> no cheating, but I'm creating a post on the forum about this
13:17:46 <Samu> it was a randomly generated map
13:18:04 <Samu> well, not so random, i used a fixed seed
13:18:18 <Samu> but all the other AIs are not cheating like him
13:19:53 <_dp_> also, are you using unmodified openttd? or with some patches like yours max_ai
13:20:28 <Samu> i used convert.exe util from glx, he says it changes openttd.exe into gui mode
13:43:59 <Samu> from my side, I'm going to clean up those server folders
13:44:23 <Samu> I don't know if different versions of OpenTTD can affect something like this
13:45:04 <Samu> that folder was originally 1.6.0-RC1 if I recall, then i only replaced the .exe file
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15:10:55 <planetmaker> <Samu> that folder was originally 1.6.0-RC1 if I recall, then i only replaced the .exe file <-- do not replace the exe file. OpenTTD comes as a bundle with all files included for a reason
15:21:21 <Samu> ok, then i will redo the test
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15:39:16 <Samu> server can't start, says its missing baseset grrr
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15:40:08 <greeter> i had that issue too, i just installed openttd-opengfx from the repos and it started no problem
15:40:37 <greeter> oh, but you're on windows, hmm
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15:49:12 <Samu> erm, duh im dumb, not using the ais yet
15:50:33 <Samu> oops, i closed the wrong server... great,
15:51:28 <greeter> welcome to my world :-S
15:52:14 <Samu> so i closed AIAI server by mistake
15:55:48 <greeter> i got a question maybe somebody here can answer. is the openttd logo released under a creative commons or similar license? i'm writing an article about openttd and i'd like to use an image of the logo
15:58:06 <Samu> while I'm at it, i'm gonna clean up the other 3 servers
16:08:20 <Samu> cleaned up servers 2, 3, 5, 6
16:08:28 <Samu> the others are still running
16:08:42 <Samu> server 2 restarted, it's roadrunner
16:09:27 <Samu> server 6 restarted, it's AIAI, fresh. closed it by mistake, got to repeat... :o
16:13:38 <Samu> plarbourne transport is not the name of roadrunner, wtf am i doing wrong
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16:17:30 <Samu> why did it start rocketAI?
16:17:38 <Samu> ... i have it configured to start RoadRunner
16:18:53 <Samu> ah i see, it changed the config to none
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16:19:59 <Samu> nothing, just me being really dumb today
16:21:13 <Alberth> I would find it weird if an AI could get models before them being designed
16:21:23 <greeter> well i know the feeling Samu except with me it isn't exclusive to certain days
16:21:40 <Samu> i am repeating the test Alberth
16:22:02 <Alberth> ok, but when is a model "designed" for you?
16:22:40 <Samu> roadrunner in 1957 had Perry Mail Truck already available for purchase
16:22:52 <greeter> what the? my newgrf got downloaded 132 times?!
16:23:09 <Samu> it's a 2020 or 2030 model
16:23:48 <Alberth> that's a lot of years :)
16:24:08 <Samu> let me load that save again, i can see in the list of purchasable vehicles
16:24:23 <Alberth> the "exclusive preview" also holds for AIs, so that could be a reason for an AI having things before you
16:24:39 <Alberth> but that shouldn't be 50 years or so
16:25:06 <Alberth> greeter: either bots, or "download everything" users :)
16:25:53 <greeter> only two other people have joined the server i use the newgrf on so i couldn't figure out how more than 100 others would be downloading it lol
16:25:56 <Alberth> automagic updating of newgrf collection could be another reason
16:28:04 <Samu> oh, perry mail truck, 2019 design
16:28:29 <Samu> roadrunner company does have it available
16:28:44 <Samu> when i create a new company, i don't see it available
16:28:58 <Samu> i moved myself into roadrunner company
16:29:07 <Samu> i can see what's available for him
16:30:42 <Samu> not all of these models appeared at once, it started with perry mail truck in 1957, then i think a few years later, another model
16:31:03 <Samu> seems like a bug or exploit
16:32:34 <Samu> the1980 livestock truck was also available when i was investigating a save from 1973
16:33:36 <Samu> there was also the grain truck from the 2010
16:34:00 <Samu> can't be certain about their design dates, but i know it was the 3rd refresh model
16:34:03 <Alberth> I wonder how it gets that
16:37:46 <_dp_> did anyone try cheating into that company and see available trucks?
16:38:03 <_dp_> mb availability masks got corrupted somehow
16:40:31 <Samu> other than me spectating, there were 4 other clients
16:40:45 <Samu> nothing strange from what i see
16:41:19 <Samu> what year or date is this?
16:41:36 <_dp_> Samu, that's not what I meant, move yourself into that company and check available trucks
16:42:16 <Samu> ah, see if someone cheated?
16:42:56 <Samu> when someone joined and created a company, frame 665881
16:43:05 <Samu> and company was autoclean
16:44:19 <Samu> do you know approximately which year, month is frame 665881? server started in 1950
16:46:20 <Samu> there was another autoclean, but that was already me, when i found out roadrunner was cheating
16:46:39 <Samu> other than the AI, were created
16:47:28 <Samu> dbg: [net] [server] Client connected from 82.37.17.10 on frame 665881 *** Mark Tracey has joined the game (Client #4) *** Mark Tracey has started a new company (#2) *** Mark Tracey has left the game (leaving) dbg: [net] Closed client connection 4 Auto-cleaned company #2 with no vehicles
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16:50:37 <_dp_> did roadrunner start with same company id (#2) as that autocleaned one?
16:50:51 <Samu> 8998 / 365 = about 24 years into the game
16:51:02 <Samu> roadrunner was cheating in the 7th year
16:51:18 <Samu> no, roadrunner started first before everyone else
16:52:30 <_dp_> then I hardly doubt any other companies matter
16:56:30 <Samu> client 1 is server, client 2 is me with a spectator instance
16:56:45 <Samu> client 3 has the same IP address as client 4, Mark Tracey
17:00:42 <_dp_> convenience savegame bump they said...
17:00:51 * _dp_ waiting for 1.6.1 to compile...
17:05:36 <Samu> i found the saves with mark tracey transport
17:06:08 <Samu> september, october, november 1974
17:06:30 <_dp_> if (e == NULL || e->preview_company != _current_company) return CMD_ERROR;
17:07:00 <_dp_> does that mean company with 0 id can always accept a preview?
17:07:59 <_dp_> ah, probably not, should be initialized to INVALID_COMPANY
17:13:25 <Samu> Mark Tracey available vehicles are fine
17:15:35 <Samu> there's no more MPS Regal bus
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17:18:00 <Samu> oh nevermind, it's fine, mps regal bus is retired model
17:18:21 <Samu> retirement seems to be working
17:19:09 <_dp_> I think I found the root of the problem, or, rather both roots ^^, verifying now
17:30:22 <_dp_> ok, it's too hard to verify completely but preview_company is being initialized with 0 instead of INVALID_COMPANY
17:30:36 <_dp_> meaning company 0 can accept preview without being asked for it
17:30:57 <_dp_> and roadrunner spams preview acceptance because of missing break in switch ^^
17:33:11 <Samu> but how could it accept models that are years away
17:35:38 <_dp_> year doesn't matter here, game thinks in already asked this company for preview, so year was checked
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19:14:09 <Samu> i just caught roadrunner cheating again
19:14:34 <Samu> so, that's it, it's a bug in openttd
19:14:50 <Samu> stopping his server again
19:15:16 <Samu> this time it's with wood trucks
19:18:45 <Samu> foster wood truck in 1962
19:23:35 <Samu> thx _dp_ when will it get fixed?
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19:24:10 <_dp_> Samu, ask devs, not me ;)
19:24:33 <glx> availability is not a fixed date IIRC
19:26:28 <_dp_> glx, I already explained most likely cause, check logs
19:35:36 <Samu> hmm, since I'm in the mood for it, gonna do a 3rd test, RoadRunner will be on Company #2 instead
19:37:50 <Alberth> glx: it's 50-80 years preview then :p
19:38:09 <glx> I didn't check the source
19:38:49 <Alberth> partly caused by samu's patch, as he allowed it to be company 0 as being an AI
19:39:42 <Alberth> how did company 0 then become an AI ?
19:39:46 <Samu> it was on a dedicated server, first company that started was AI, it took company #1
19:49:47 <_dp_> frosch123, no, that's wrong
19:50:17 <frosch123> well, i can't be bothered to read the logs
19:50:23 <frosch123> the signal to noise ratio is too low
19:50:27 <_dp_> frosch123, isn't ENGINE_EXCLUSIVE_PREVIEW flag set for almost any engine ?
19:50:49 <frosch123> i think it is set when the preview is offered first, and cleared when it expires
19:51:10 <_dp_> frosch123, problem is e->preview_company is initialized with 0 instead of INVALID_COMPANY
19:51:53 <_dp_> frosch123, hm, mv it will work then...
19:52:17 <_dp_> got myself a nice maglev on mp server with this cheat btw ^^
19:56:46 <_dp_> frosch123, even though I checked for ENGINE_EXCLUSIVE_PREVIEW usage and looks like your first patch would work fine too
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20:00:15 <frosch123> the _PREVIEW is for existing savegames
20:00:26 <frosch123> the constructor thing to make stuff more sane for the future
20:13:35 <greeter> hmm, wonder how well transporting valuables by cargo ship is going to work...
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20:50:19 <_dp_> btw, it's also funny how roadrunner got this bug. in event switch it has no break after industry closing event handling so it it also interprets it as preview event which it ofc accepts xD
20:51:24 <_dp_> somehow that doesn't crash and sometime it gets new useful vehicle with it
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20:56:09 <_dp_> so, using Convert on wrong event type should probably fail in GS
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21:05:01 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27598 trunk/src/engine.cpp (2016-06-09 21:04:53 +0200 )
21:05:02 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Company 0 could accept engine previews before they were offered.
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21:23:59 <Wolf01> meh, I'm stuck with the trailer, not enough space and everything is wobbly
21:37:53 <Alkel_U3> especially the finished follow-up
21:44:47 <supermop_> because of the X crossovers?
21:45:20 <andythenorth> also the sprites :P
21:46:00 <greeter> well i'm thinking there's gotta be a better way to construct that link
21:47:07 <greeter> but it's working so i can't complain :-)
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21:49:24 <supermop_> are all three platforms at new maryland woods bi-directional? and do trains from keenan siding need to go to all platforms?
21:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> tetris extreme :p
21:51:02 <greeter> supermop_: yes to both
21:51:09 <supermop_> i really cant tell what the intended service patterns are at and between the stations, so no idea if the connection is practical or not
21:51:42 <greeter> oh wait, actually, what it is, the forest sends wood up to a sawmill, and that connection is to allow for a goods truck to take the goods from the sawmill to new maryland woods
21:51:44 <Alkel_U3> yeah, they played tetris from hell and won
21:52:34 <supermop_> where is the sawmill?
21:53:41 <greeter> it's way off the screen, about 120 tiles away, although i had to go around a large lake to get there
21:54:52 <greeter> hmm. i wonder if that's anything like bastet for linux (no flash, i can't check out that site)
21:56:49 <greeter> oh that lol, i've seen youtube clips of similar games. i figured it was either like bastet or it was like that
21:57:10 <greeter> back when i was on my tetris kick, i would play bastet to try to improve my skills at the game. didn't help, still lousy at tetris lol
21:58:41 <Alkel_U3> I remember playing bastet for a while - I even came up with a strategy how to fool the game into thinking I expect different pieces than I want but already forgot all that
21:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly does bastet do?
21:59:51 <Alkel_U3> it always tries to give you the worst possible piece
21:59:56 <peter1138> gives you exactly the wrong piece
22:00:08 <greeter> it only does this 6/7 of the time though, so that you can't always predict the next piece
22:00:25 <greeter> for those people like me that played it on hard mode :-P
22:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well "wrong" is usually one of the dual-corner things
22:01:00 <Alkel_U3> also, no Flash? Flash Projector :-)
22:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> more often than not :p
22:01:45 <Alkel_U3> well, that's true :-)
22:03:23 <andythenorth> “Flash is bad, mhok”
22:04:46 <greeter> andythenorth: sounds like my attitude lol, especially since adobe has basically told linux users to get lost as far as flash is concerned
22:05:52 <Alkel_U3> flash outside the browser, as standalone application is tolerable, imho (I don't like letting all the old good flash games go to waste)
22:06:07 <andythenorth> I used to make them
22:06:16 <andythenorth> I made maybe 30 or 40 or so
22:06:23 <andythenorth> now I can’t see my old work :)
22:06:39 <andythenorth> flash has been a provable malware vector, I’m done with it
22:06:46 <andythenorth> very high level of CVEs
22:07:09 <greeter> well plus there's the fact that html5 is a good replacement for a lot of stuff that flash used to do, like videos
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22:07:44 <greeter> the fact that both facebook and youtube ditched flash last year is an indicator to me that flash is on the way out. in the next year or two they'll do a final release and it'll be EOL
22:08:09 <Alkel_U3> plus it gave some people ideas they should make their web completely in flash :-)
22:08:47 <greeter> lol yeah, i remember the days when there were a number of sites like that
22:09:07 <greeter> i was lucky to live in town back the and be on dsl, but anyone outside the town limits was on dialup, they were out of luck for using such websites
22:10:15 <Alkel_U3> and stuff has to move around and make sound and... basicaly clients from hell stories :D
22:10:55 <andythenorth> eh, I used to make flash sites in about 30KB
22:11:15 <andythenorth> a .swf was no larger than the equivalent html for the same page structure
22:11:16 <greeter> indeed. kind of glad linux ditched flash. before then you either had to have it or miss half of what anyone wanted to show you, and that would mean websites would auto play obnoxious advertising with background music and everything when you were trying to listen to your own audio files
22:11:22 <andythenorth> and often looked a hell of a lot better
22:11:50 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with accessible, keyboard navigable flash
22:11:58 <greeter> interesting. not a lot of people did that for the flash only sites i went to though. they'd be like 500kb to 1mb pages, again, because of all the flashiness (no pun intended) or background audio
22:11:58 <andythenorth> except the entire formta
22:12:11 <andythenorth> that wasn’t the flash, it was the assets
22:12:14 <andythenorth> can do the same with html
22:12:21 <andythenorth> also they were numpties
22:13:03 <greeter> ah, good point. but still, it gave flash a bad name, at least around here
22:14:03 <andythenorth> it’s a dead tech
22:14:15 <greeter> and i'll be crashing the funeral for the sandwiches :-P
22:14:26 <Samu> flash was a problem for me on windows 7 and this motherboard
22:14:44 <andythenorth> such weird problems windows users have
22:14:45 <greeter> kind of ironic, we basically had the opposite problems with flash
22:14:47 <Samu> thx to flash video playback with drm issues
22:14:55 <andythenorth> mac users have simple problems, like non-working wifi
22:15:19 <andythenorth> there’s never a weird mac problem, they’re always basic
22:15:52 <Samu> i remember complaining about openttd music sound going mute.
22:16:08 <andythenorth> oh musc doesn’t work on the mac version of openttd :)
22:16:10 <Samu> turns out it was adobe flash
22:16:29 <greeter> i never could get openttd music to work properly. sound effects were fine. i just mute both these days, i like to put on my own music or listen to the radio instead
22:16:40 <Alkel_U3> what's the point playing it, then
22:16:54 <greeter> you saying there's no point to playing openttd without sound?
22:16:58 <Samu> it was rather a culmination of 3 applications
22:17:16 <Alkel_U3> sure, the soundtrack is essential :-)
22:17:23 <Samu> openttd, my webbrowser with flash plugin and another background application that hooks the microphone
22:17:40 <greeter> lol i see. well i enjoy a muted openttd just fine
22:18:25 <Alkel_U3> well, I don't use the ingame music lately, anyway, but only since I found the new completely remastered soundtrack from Transport Tycoon for mobiles :-)
22:19:11 <Samu> ah, i remember, msi afterburner
22:19:17 <Samu> yeah, it was recording sound
22:19:55 <Alkel_U3> hearing the sountrack played by and arranged for "real" instruments was one of my lifelong wishes come true
22:20:11 <Samu> there's still midi support on windows 10, btw
22:20:12 <greeter> hmm that'd be pretty cool actually
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22:21:39 <Samu> forgot the name of that thing microsoft uses to build the sound stream
22:22:29 <Samu> that thing was being clogged up to the point cpu usage was always 12.5%, sound stream mixing couldn't be queued properly
22:23:01 <Alkel_U3> I was trying really hard to replace the system soundfont with something better back on windows 7, with varying levels of success (the working states were way too cpu intensive). One of the things that got easier for me with switching to linux
22:23:47 <Samu> it eventually made the sound service stop
22:23:55 <Samu> and i had no more sound for the rest of that window session
22:24:53 <Samu> the bug, apparently was derived from flash videos being played, with drm parts in the sound
22:25:14 <Samu> and msi attempting to "listen to the sound device" for recording
22:25:43 <greeter> sounds like something used in a military fighter jet
22:26:19 <Samu> msi afterburner is a video card overclocking piece of software, but it also has video recording
22:27:29 <Samu> openttd was just accelerating the mute process
22:27:40 <Samu> due to the way it is always queuing sounds
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22:48:46 <Samu> found the name of that thing
22:48:58 <Samu> Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation
22:51:10 <Samu> Oh right... creative drivers
22:51:35 <Samu> I was lucky not to get BSOD's
22:52:34 <Samu> there's plenty of complains about Creative causing bsods when playing some games
22:53:28 <Samu> games that used that sound engine
22:53:44 <Samu> had a tendency to crash on some creative cards
22:55:31 <Samu> i don't technically have a Creative Sound Card, but I got a "glorified asus motherboard with supreme sound technology from creative built-in"
22:55:54 <greeter> lol i see... that a glorified way of saying that it's a hunk of hardware that could be problematic?
22:56:15 <greeter> hmm guessing you've had other bad experiences with asus?
22:56:22 <Samu> because driver support stopped on windows 7
22:57:03 <greeter> windows isn't known for updating at the speed of light, you'd think such driver issues could be fixed in a reasonable amount of time
22:57:20 <Samu> it is in reality, a realtek chipset, but with a license to use a now, no longer supported, creative audio enchancing technologies
22:57:33 <glx> greeter: it's not windows, it's the manufacturers
22:58:07 <greeter> i meant that the manufacturers should be able to fix issues like that
22:58:12 <glx> I must use my old scanner in a 32bit xp VM because it will never get a 64 bit driver
22:58:14 <Samu> it's a sticker that says Creative, placed on top of the realtek chipset
22:58:18 <greeter> i know all about driver issues and hardware manufacturers
22:58:31 <greeter> if i ever need to buy a dialup modem for some reason, there's no chance it'll have a connexant chipset
22:58:38 <glx> they won't fix when you can buy a newer one
22:59:22 <greeter> ah, true. they expect everyone to be wealthy enough to replace working hardware every year or so
23:03:11 <Samu> in this case, it doesn't matter whom I ask for support
23:03:29 <Samu> asus says it's creative's fault
23:03:54 <Samu> creative says end of life support
23:04:32 <Samu> the license to use that creative stuff in the mobo is valid for as long as creative wishes to support it
23:05:25 <Samu> no drivers from creative, nothing asus can do...
23:06:14 <Samu> still, that mobo, when new, costs $250 or so
23:06:28 <Samu> i was lucky to buy it 2nd hand in a combo
23:06:59 <Samu> realtek does a much longer support
23:07:11 <Samu> thx to realtek, I have sound in windows 10
23:07:22 <Samu> i just dont have those nice audio enchancing features anymore
23:08:01 <Samu> meh, i'm talking too much
23:08:53 <greeter> grr, the oil refinery i was bringing oil to just shut down, good thing i can afford to build a new one
23:09:04 <greeter> and no you aren't :-)
23:12:20 <Samu> just peaked at RoadRunner game
23:12:33 <Samu> made him start on company 2
23:12:43 <Samu> year is 1964, still legit
23:21:33 <peter1138> audio enhancing == fucking up the sound
23:28:59 <Samu> ah, no, i was lucky in that OpenAL regard
23:29:13 <Samu> it's not a real Creative hardware, it's Realtek
23:29:32 <Samu> the problem happens on Creative drivers with real Creative hardware
23:30:01 <greeter> hmm, i need to find out what this flying saucer is going to do lol
23:30:25 <Samu> and Creative refuses to fix that because End of Life support
23:31:51 <Samu> how Creative ends mixing up realtek hw and creative hw in the same product.... meh... great management going on there on Creative
23:34:22 <Samu> i still blame asus, they made this arrangement
23:34:32 <Samu> and put it on a top of the line mobo
23:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> most likely annoy you
23:45:03 <Samu> there are other issues with this same motherboard model, namely the BIOS
23:45:47 <greeter> lol Eddi|zuHause it didn't actually :-)
23:47:26 <Samu> I just don't get how it was praised so much by tech reviewers when it came out. the darn BIOS has a tendency to "forget" settings, sometimes important ones like voltages, turbo clock settings and even fan control.
23:49:29 <greeter> yeah those are pretty big things to not remember
23:52:44 <Samu> there is a bug related to CPU ACPI. If I hibernate, for example, and wake it up, the BIOS will forget 3 power states
23:54:13 <Samu> power states are, making it work at certain frequencies, there's 1.4 GHz, 2.1, 2.7, 3.3, 3.6, 3.9, 4.2
23:54:34 <Samu> after hibernating, 2.1, 2.7 and 3.3 are forgotten
23:55:41 <Samu> it doesn't affect me that much, I rather prefer to have the CPU operate at its max speed
23:55:44 <greeter> hmm that's far from ideal lol
23:55:56 <greeter> understandably so, but if it forgets that, what else does it forget?
23:56:05 <Samu> i can live with that, but it's just some of the things that go under the radar on tech reviewers
23:56:49 <Samu> makes me think asus paied them
23:58:10 <Samu> i'm yet surprised the whole thing is stable
23:58:19 <Samu> i can't complain about that
continue to next day ⏵
