IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-06-08
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14:14:14 <Samu> NoCAB doing trains isn't as spectacular as i thought though
14:14:35 <Samu> perhaps i could use trAIns or some other
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14:57:06 <Samu> what's the best road vehicle AI?
14:57:22 <Samu> I should try a different kind of competition
14:57:47 <Samu> a competition to find the best of each transport type
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15:15:02 <Alkel_U3> last time I checked - for competition I'd guess Rondje om de Kerk :-)
15:15:33 <jaenster> hmm.. i dont know.. MPS bus?
15:16:13 <Alkel_U3> although I have no idea if AI developement succeeded its nefarious ways to make profit
15:20:03 <jaenster> its still a epic name for a AI
15:20:21 <greeter> sounds quite foreign, at least to me
15:20:30 <jaenster> Its dutch, which i speak
15:20:43 <greeter> i thought it sounded south african, which has a similar language
15:20:53 <jaenster> we had a problem here that the real people from the trains didnt want to get all the time the same route
15:21:17 <jaenster> They traindrivers in the netherlands drive all the time the same route
15:21:35 <greeter> oh i see. yeah, i imagine so. train driving isn't exactly the most exciting job at the best of times
15:21:51 <jaenster> that problem is called "Rondtje om de kerk", wich litterly means "Round around the church"
15:22:10 <jaenster> so.. the AI is called after that problem ^^
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15:26:43 <supermop_> how are things going here
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15:31:09 <Samu> darn, BorkAI has a bad starting on huge maps
15:31:44 <Samu> it's "caching" every possible connection
15:35:57 <Samu> oh, it started 6 months later
15:37:31 <Samu> pff, i can't test it like this :(
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15:43:16 <Samu> Wormnest: hi, do you know what is the best road vehicle AI?
15:44:22 <Wormnest> Samu: It probably depends on what you call best and under what conditions you do the test
15:44:45 <Wormnest> But I would guess that Terron, RoadRunner and maybe also NoCAB do pretty well
15:44:56 <Samu> one that gets most money over 100 years
15:45:21 <Samu> tell me 8 AIs, will be testing them solo
15:45:30 <Samu> 8 that use road vehicles
15:45:49 <Samu> terron, roadrunner, NoCAB
15:46:16 <Wormnest> Hm I never did look at roadvehicle performance too close
15:46:37 <jaenster> With paxdest its more eyecandy
15:46:50 <Wormnest> RobotAI2 does ok too but I dont think its on bananas
15:47:07 <Samu> I don't know of that one :o
15:47:17 <Samu> yeah, I prefer bananas ais
15:47:54 <Wormnest> bananas is the online content
15:48:02 <supermop_> need to sneal out of office for some coffe
15:48:20 <Samu> hmm Otvi, not sure how to configure that one
15:48:55 <Wormnest> There´s nothing you can configure there lol
15:49:12 <Samu> yeah, but i wanted to restrict to road vehicles only
15:50:01 <Samu> disable road vehicles for AI or max trains, ships, air to 0?
15:50:02 <Wormnest> Maybe also Synaptic, aiai, admiral
15:50:38 <Wormnest> Yeah set max to 0 for the others and hope they don´t protest by stopping themselves
15:53:28 <Samu> configuring 8 openttd configs with notepad++ is nice
15:53:49 <Samu> it replaces for all opened documents
15:55:25 <Samu> terron, roadrunner, nocab, otvi, synaptic, aiai, admiral
15:55:25 <Wormnest> I´m using it too for AI development
15:55:59 <Samu> 7, need 1 more, I will try MogulAI, from my usual testings, he's quite fast and maxing out 5000 vehicles
15:56:50 <Wormnest> Ofcourse the nocab version I fixed is less likely to cause problems than the version on bananas
15:57:01 <Wormnest> Although cars should probably be ok
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15:59:05 <Samu> synaptic is SysTrans, right?
16:14:14 <Samu> i can't configure Syntrans parameters, seems bugged
16:14:47 <Samu> SynTrans = log_level=3,start_date=1
16:15:01 <Samu> there is no log level setting
16:15:09 <Samu> there's a max distance for route
16:15:18 <Samu> but can't seem to change it
16:16:18 <Wormnest> distance it seems can´t be changed in game
16:16:39 <Wormnest> maybe it checks log level only once in a while
16:18:34 <Samu> i'm launcing the 8 servers at the same time
16:23:21 <Samu> oh, right, they're 1.6.1-RC1 servers
16:25:40 <Samu> exact same map seed for all
16:27:04 <supermop_> coffee shop out of v60 filters
16:27:58 <Samu> eh... syntrans is trying to build rail t.t
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16:30:04 <Alkel_U3> that's what I like about my good old moka pot - no fancy filters, (almost) no maintenance
16:30:57 <Alkel_U3> and th rate at which is practical to brew coffee keeps me from heavily overdosing :P
16:32:05 <Wormnest> SynTrans always starts with trying to build a few train lines and after that ignores them
16:33:34 <Samu> just restarted him with different game settings, let's see
16:34:23 <Wormnest> I should have another look at SynTrans sometime I already fixed a crash in it which I should post sometime
16:34:43 <Samu> aha, he started road vehicles now
16:35:10 <Samu> think i could restart the whole servers again, brb
16:35:37 <Wormnest> Well I saw it once wait 40 years trying to find a path for a train route before realising it couldn´t find a path
16:38:47 <Wolf01> how is possible to not find a path? it should have built a station in the worst location possible (eg. the exit against an industry or another unmovable object)
16:47:29 <Wormnest> I haven´t looked at it´s pathfinding code maybe other ai´s were faster building something where it wanted to
16:48:45 <Samu> I'll be doing these tests for aircraft, ships and trains as well, but not today
16:53:42 <Wormnest> Nice, although there´s a lot of factors that can influence the results
17:01:21 <Samu> impressive start for RoadRunner, but NoCAB is about to take him in profit real soon
17:01:47 <Samu> NoCAB took 4 months to build first route
17:02:16 <Samu> they both start with buses
17:03:22 <Samu> I see mogul doesn't actually lead
17:03:35 <Samu> doesn't use buses at all
17:04:03 <Samu> pass > coal, it's confirmed
17:05:24 <Samu> I wonder if the "realistic" acceleration model is affecting this outcome
17:08:31 <Samu> steepness 10% for road vehicles, on all servers
17:19:18 <Samu> roadrunner is surprising me
17:19:19 <Wormnest> Yea NoCAB is kinda slow to start since it´s computing proftability of a lot of connections
17:19:39 <Samu> roadrunner still leads, terron is now coming ahead of nocab
17:19:46 <Samu> 1st roadrunner, 2nd terron, 3rd nocab
17:20:23 <Samu> actually, 3rd place for otvi, 4th for nocab, nearly tied
17:20:59 <Samu> last place syntrans, for now
17:21:33 <Wormnest> What year did you start
17:22:16 <Samu> profiting, and massing vehicles
17:22:28 <Wormnest> I´ve noticed that some ai´s do better at an early start year than others
17:22:48 <Wormnest> but that´s probably more noticeable if all vehicle types are available
17:22:48 <Samu> they're all over 200 road vehicles
17:24:15 <Samu> i see AIAI and Mogul only compete with trucks, no buses
17:24:16 <Wormnest> What´s also interesting to see how ai´s handle reaching the max allowed number of vehicles
17:24:42 <Wormnest> Some hardly do anything in that case instead of trying to opmtimise things
17:25:16 <Samu> strange, AIAI can build buses
17:25:29 <Samu> unless it's just a fake setting?
17:25:38 <Wormnest> Maybe it think´s at that time trucks are more profitable
17:26:13 <Samu> ah, he has only 3 routes with buses, my bad, sorry
17:26:34 <Samu> Mogul seems to be the only one doing pure industries
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17:29:48 <Samu> mogul = pure industries, syntrans = pure buses
17:30:19 <Samu> i'm not too familiar with syntrans, need to test this ai more often
17:32:16 <Wormnest> Yea in the game I have SynTrans only has buses too
17:33:16 <Samu> roadrunner is the first over 500 rvs
17:33:29 <Samu> not even 4 years into the game
17:38:08 <supermop_> what if cargo sprites were separate from vehicle sets
17:39:20 <supermop_> V453000: like instead of compositing within your grf, the cargo/industry set provided sprites of unitized amounts of cargo
17:40:27 <Alberth> what if you then need 2.5 cargo sprites?
17:40:28 <supermop_> and you put those pallets of bricks or whatever onto your flatbeds
17:41:00 <supermop_> Alberth: its not well suited to artistes making vehicles to different scales
17:41:43 <supermop_> in fact it might be a better idea for a completely different game
17:41:58 <supermop_> but its a fun thought experiment for me
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17:42:45 <supermop_> you'd have to then rework vehicles to have properties like, can hold 10 pallets, 20, or 40 etc
17:43:11 <supermop_> and a precast concrete pipe is 2 pallets, a huge transformer is 20 etc
17:44:07 <supermop_> then standardize the value of a pallet, which to be honest hasn't yet completely happened in the real world
17:44:44 <Samu> looking at CPU Time, the most CPU intensive is ... not surprisingly... NoCAB
17:44:51 <Alberth> I wonder what's left for the wagon designer then
17:45:27 <Alberth> mostly just the width of the wagon?
17:45:36 <Samu> least CPU intensive is AdmiralAI
17:46:03 <Samu> and he's not in last place even
17:48:05 <Wormnest> NoCAB is the one most like a real company doing a lot of profitability computations
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17:53:08 <Samu> roadrunner, first over 1000 rvs
17:53:45 <Samu> terron is attempting to beat roadrunner in profits
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18:01:57 <Samu> terron is the new leader in profits :)
18:06:31 <Samu> I notice NoCAB server is being delayed
18:07:49 <Samu> oops, i've hidden the finances of 2 AIs lol
18:29:34 <Samu> damn it's hard to point a flaw in any of them
18:29:43 <Samu> they're doing really well
18:31:53 <Samu> OtviAI is the first with over 2000 rvs
18:33:00 <Alberth> not enough competition :p
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18:37:54 <Samu> OtviAi is now also the first in profits
18:42:42 <Samu> strange that roadrunner lost its boosting momentum
18:43:08 <Samu> it's still building new routes, but that initial boom lost its strength
18:44:38 <Samu> some AIs are stagnating in profits, while those that were behind are still booming
18:45:15 <Samu> AdmiralAI, Mogul, AIAI are probably going to compete in the first 4 it seems
18:46:05 <Samu> nocab, terron, roadrunner have slowed down in profits... strange
18:47:00 <Samu> i have to see what's happening with nocab, he's actually starting to decrease profits
18:48:27 <Samu> ah, the script died unexpectedly
18:49:28 <Samu> probably that dreaded saving took too long
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19:02:57 <Samu> otvi is first to 5000 rvs
19:04:51 <Samu> in 10 years + 1 month, 5000 road vehicles, that is crazy
19:09:58 <Wormnest> If you had used my fixed version of nocab it wouldn´t have crashed
19:11:06 <Samu> will you upload it to banana servers?
19:12:11 <Wormnest> Not sure, maybe I should
19:12:39 <Wormnest> I still got some new local fixes I have to commit
19:17:40 <Samu> heh, who's going to be 2nd with 5000? Mogul vs Admiral
19:20:30 <Samu> oh, mogul server is behind a few months
19:20:36 <Samu> have to take that into account
19:20:59 <Wormnest> But amount of vehicles doesn´t have to say much about how well they do
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19:21:57 <Samu> I know, that's why I like run these tests for 100 years
19:23:59 <Samu> ever since otvi reached 5000 cap, its server became slow, really slow
19:24:42 <Samu> it doesn't seem to handle that cap too well
19:26:06 <Samu> even with the few months delay
19:27:13 <Samu> syntrans just got a bankrupt warning
19:27:23 <Samu> he's always working too close to the loan limit
19:32:18 <Wormnest> If my memory is right it often replaces a whole lot of vehicles all at once
19:33:29 <Samu> yes, he sold about 60 now, and filled them again
19:33:44 <Samu> it became faster during that transition, now it's sluggish again
19:35:18 <Samu> May 1962 - 5000 rvs for AdmiralAI
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19:35:29 <Samu> AIAI server is also delayed, let's see
19:36:20 <Samu> Jun 1961 - 5000 rvs for MogulAI
19:36:30 <Samu> Jan 1960 - 5000 rvs for Otvi
19:37:06 <Samu> another bankrupt warning for syntrans... he's really risking it
19:37:45 <Samu> it's not like he doesn't have money, he got 600k profit every 3 month
19:37:56 <Samu> but he works so close to the limit...
19:38:03 <Samu> it's always triggering it
19:38:17 <Wormnest> he´s not the only one I´ve seen doing that
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19:57:32 <frosch123> evening mammals and gastropods
20:05:47 <Samu> i will submit the savegames where he bankrupts but loading its AI crashes and won't trigger the bankrupt anymore
20:10:04 <supermop_> hmm the deck i designed to cost $15,000 will cost $25,000-$30,000 according to contractor submitting a bid
20:10:55 <supermop_> that seems like a lot for a wood platform to stand on and grill on
20:12:40 <Wormnest> I think I have a fix locally for the savegame crash of SynTrans
20:16:14 <Samu> he didn't crash, it bankrupted
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20:18:31 <Samu> I'm only testing 6 now :(
20:18:47 <Samu> roadrunner and terron are too far away from getting to 5000
20:19:32 <Samu> Otvi still leads in profits, though its server became too slow now
20:20:02 <Samu> it's already delayed by 3 years in comparison to the one further ahead
20:21:04 <Samu> admiralai, for what it does, surprises me, in terms of cpu usage
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20:22:38 <Samu> terron is also low in cpu usage, but he's now last place
20:22:57 <Samu> i dont understand what's happened to terron
20:23:36 <Samu> he seems too careful about his vehicles
20:23:55 <Samu> always in the range of 1600-1800 vehicles, profit has stagnated
20:24:06 <Samu> maybe that's how he works
20:25:45 <Samu> "road expansion complete!"
20:25:53 <Samu> heh, what does that mean? no more work?
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20:44:00 <andythenorth> what a crap suggestion
20:45:18 <andythenorth> 50% of the gameplay revolves around not gridlocking your network whilst changing junctions :P
20:45:34 <andythenorth> “the same could have been said about signals and pathfinders andythenorth”
20:56:50 <Wolf01> I can't understand how steam updates works: lately it seem that downloads to 50%, stops and schedule the restart 1 minute after; if I set a download limit and the time when it must be active, it doesn't even work, if it is active it stays active even outside the time and if it's not active it stays not active when in the time; if it's limited, the speed doesn't match the limit, if I set the
20:56:50 <Wolf01> limit to 100kbps it downloads say 400kb at 150kbps and then drops to 0 for 10 seconds :|
20:58:06 <Wolf01> I think steam should really consider to use the torrent protocol like the blizzard updater
21:02:25 <Samu> or until ISPs stop capping connections
21:06:48 <Wolf01> andythenorth, the new bricklink is online :D
21:07:33 <Samu> i hated when blizzard started doing torrent transfers when I had a monthly cap of 100 MB or some sort
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21:08:25 <Samu> past 1000 MB download, connection speeds plummeted
21:08:50 <Samu> thx to blizzard torrents which I wasn't aware at first
21:09:06 <Wolf01> I don't think it would have changed with a standard download
21:10:49 <Samu> it was uploading to others....
21:11:08 <Samu> how could a company like blizzard resort to such tactics, aren't they rich enough? ...
21:11:41 <Samu> using my bandwidth to server their other customers... meh
21:12:14 <Alkel_U3> iirc that used to be an issue with skype, too
21:14:45 <Wolf01> the only issue I had with skype was the use of the port 80 by default
22:08:23 <Samu> roadrunner is slowly building up to 5000 rvs
22:36:02 <Samu> 5th to 5000, roadrunner, Jul 1974
22:36:19 <Samu> now terron... only at 2000
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22:50:35 <Samu> faster trucks are showing up, :)
22:50:56 <Samu> it may change the leaderboard, we'll see
22:54:04 <Samu> roadrunner is again leading, but it has a 9 year advantage, otvi server is really struggling :(
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23:04:40 <Samu> I see a change in the leaderboard, interesting
23:04:58 <Samu> admiral ai is renewing all his vehicles with faster models
23:05:14 <Samu> roadrunner also seems to be doing the same, but in a slower manner
23:05:49 <Samu> terron is always up-to-date, no single vehicle is old
23:06:41 <Samu> otvi, unfortunately is delayed, time is passing slow for its server
23:07:01 <Samu> still using the previous models
23:10:34 <Samu> mogul is a strange one, his profit graph differs from everone else, it's peaky
23:10:59 <Samu> his server is also being delayed somewhat
23:11:10 <Samu> akin to otvi, but not as severe
23:14:34 <Samu> and then there's aiai, with models over 24 years old
23:14:59 <Samu> he only seems to upgrade them to the newer models, not renew them~
23:23:14 <Wormnest> My own wormai could use some improvements in that area too
23:38:49 <Samu> look at mogul profit, it's always like that, with those peaks
23:52:00 <Wormnest> I´ve seen same behavior with other ai´s too sometimes
23:53:27 <Samu> i wish i could fit more information on the screen
23:53:45 <Samu> gonna try virtual super resolution thingy
23:56:33 <Samu> everything so small now, but at least I can open up some more windows
23:56:47 <Rubidium> probably a scheme for something, e.g. winning the high score or preventing bankruptcy (=4x negative bank balance at start of quarter), so not spending money for one quarter prevents it (but it's not needed if the bank balance is high enough)
continue to next day ⏵
