IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-05-26
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00:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> 90 what? humidity?
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00:37:32 <Samu> who understands pointers?
00:37:49 <Samu> i want to change the name of a string
00:39:38 <Samu> line 1170 picks the name of the AI from argv[1]
00:40:58 <Samu> how do i rename it to 'wormai'?
00:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> 90 CE is a long time ago :p
00:41:28 <Samu> bah i dunno what to do, seems so simple
00:41:51 <Samu> i just know what needs to be done, but i don't know how to code it
00:44:17 <Samu> before line 1175, and after line 1174 it must rename it to the correct name of the AI
00:46:01 <Samu> line 1174 } else { insert code that renamees 'wormai.4' to 'wormai';
00:46:43 <Samu> I can't do this alone, t.t, sorry
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01:04:18 <Wolf01> wrong approach to problem, when you will have wtfAI123.45b what do you do, a dedicated code for that too?
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01:15:02 <Samu> i dont know how to code a fix, i just know where the problem originates... t.t
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01:40:26 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: the level of air conditioning technology in my office today seems to be from 90CE
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04:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody here. get out again.
04:05:10 <ST2> Quinch poked my marshmallows, which are good to burn and poke him until he gets unconscious :D
04:18:41 <Quinch> You should thank me, marshmallows are in league with the devil. Or Jody Foster.
04:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never had marshmallows...
04:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in my country we have Knüppelkuchen
04:27:20 <Quinch> Anyhoo, I have a question, if anyone feels like answering.
04:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a metaanswer to your metaquestion.
04:27:55 <ST2> Quinch, check topic: | Don't ask to ask, just ask |
04:28:55 <Quinch> Basically, if I have a vehicle going A-B-A-C, I'll usually end up with cargo being seemingly reserved for one station even while vehicles heading to the other one are waiting for cargo.
04:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> click on the "+" to see where cargo is going
04:29:25 <ST2> Cargodist experts required
04:29:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or set cargodist to "manual" to disable the destinations
04:30:37 <Quinch> What is cargo distribution about anyway?
04:30:48 <ST2> imo, Cargodist enabled in MP servers is a dumb thing - because players can't see it when joining servers
04:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that relevant?
04:32:03 <ST2> and new players don't understand it - and the game don't explain it properly (to a new player joining the game)
04:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Quinch: cargodist gives cargo (especially passengers and mail) a mind of its own instead of blindly getting off at the next station
04:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> makes those cargos more challenging to transport
04:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> as they travel longer distances
04:34:12 <ST2> note: don't connect stations that accept pax to where you only want to deliver goods (for example)
04:34:51 <ST2> or you'll get pax go there
04:36:20 <ST2> I don't know what people play here, but the biggest online communities of OpenTTD have cargodist disabled
04:36:31 <ST2> I guess that says something
04:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that says nothing, as "the biggest online communities" are still only a tiny fraction of the whole playerbase
04:37:15 <ST2> openttdcoop handles 0,ish of ttd players
04:38:31 <Quinch> Another question, power or tractive effort - which one makes the biggest difference?
04:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and i do see how destinations are not fitting short-lived city-builder type games, and get in the way of coop-style megalomanic micromanagement networks
04:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's one of the most requested feature for people trying to build "realistic" networks
04:39:05 <ST2> sorry for "the biggest online communities" making the game popular and growing , gathering new players
04:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: do you have any data to support that statement?
04:40:29 <ST2> the difference is that I check that data, and you don't
04:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> why would it be my job to support your random claims?
04:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you claimed that "the biggest online communities" are the driving factor of popularity and growth
04:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you have no clue how many "known facts" are actually completely false
04:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a blank page
04:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but even if there were a graph to show up, how would that prove anything other than that specific online community growing? and help determining whether the growth of the openttd community as a whole is affected by this one way or another?
04:45:51 <ST2> I'm here not to teach people how to use internet browsers - if you don't see that graph, you dnt use free internet at all
04:46:44 <ST2> and you're not a free mind to interpret what's there
04:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sorry if i don't let random webpages steal my energy for their bullshitscripts
04:48:18 <ST2> if not reliable, the source isnt as well
04:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. but again, how does that prove anything except for self-referential "we're growing because we're growing"?
04:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> since there is no data on offline-players, there's no math to be done
04:50:28 <ST2> data on "offline-players" ?
04:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and if 1% of all offline players ever went to an online server, that's a lot.
04:51:15 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: that's 90's data
04:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> this is a 90's game.
04:51:42 <ST2> today players try OpenTTD online 1st
04:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> also, nobody in the 90's had online play.
04:52:16 <ST2> I noticed as a community admin - I talk to real players that install the game for the 1st time
04:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you're heavily biased towards people that install and then go to online servers.
04:53:12 <ST2> and most of them get OpenTTD because have a MP option
04:53:34 <ST2> so, I think you real need to get into the real openttd
04:54:12 <ST2> we have servers with newgrf's and others without them
04:54:35 <ST2> most popular are without... guess why?!
04:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you still don't have data about people who never go online.
04:55:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but i did not make unfounded claims
04:55:24 <ST2> because I have more data about the ppl goes online that you
04:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and for the 5th time i tell you that data is BIASED
04:56:13 <ST2> since when BIASED is an OpenTTD thing?
04:57:46 <ST2> unless you caused it... and some communities try to make it better
04:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you're hopeless. goodbye.
05:00:43 <ST2> and will be on our Factorio event xD
05:01:39 <ST2> a industry with "Eddi|zuHause" quotes scrolling xD
05:05:41 <ST2> oh well, put them too on OpenTTD achievements too
05:06:08 <ST2> thx Eddi|zuHause for some ideas ^^
05:07:39 <ST2> oh wait, Eddi|zuHause: do you play MP games or you stick to your
05:07:56 <ST2> SP game where you can't lose?
05:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the point of a game where you can lose?
05:08:24 <ST2> (now I'm pushing, I know ^^)
05:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> games where you can lose were made in the 80s
05:08:59 <ST2> even the vanilla have a winnint stats
05:10:29 <ST2> [04:08:56] <Eddi|zuHause> games where you can lose were made in the 80s <<-- did you stopped there or got that even OpenTTD can have goals now?
05:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> how do "goals" have anything to do with losing?
05:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you enjoy losing, play evil mario or something...
05:12:07 <ST2> if you lose a game but respectfully within server rules, it's a good game
05:12:53 <ST2> that's why we have goals on OpenTTD and even when lost, players say Good Game to the winner
05:13:13 <ST2> I think you need to tune your gameplay better
05:13:36 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it's to you
05:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or you need to recognize that players play for vastly different reasons
05:14:27 <ST2> I guess I once invited you to join some of our servers
05:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and i guess i never did that.
05:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> why? there would be nothing enjoyable there for me...
05:16:08 <ST2> because we, one of the infamous ttd communities, try to keep players on OpenTTD
05:16:16 <ST2> and them to enjoy the game
05:16:31 <ST2> nd by the game I mean the GAME
05:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> claims such as this truly enrage me.
05:17:24 <ST2> I can't place porn in there
05:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you sound like a politician of an opposite party
05:18:21 <ST2> you sound like a polititian on the "no ideas"side
05:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "only i am the bestestest at polititioning. all the other parties are terrible. you must vote for me or you are an idiot"
05:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i have plenty of ideas, but i don't force them down your throat.
05:19:21 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: I understand that you deal with the "code side": I deal with the players side
05:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that is both untrue and irrelevant.
05:20:09 <ST2> can you elaburate, please
05:20:54 <ST2> [04:19:49] <Eddi|zuHause> that is both untrue and irrelevant. <<-- and for both
05:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i made many thousand forum posts, but maybe changed like 100 lines of code ever in openttd...
05:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so i dealt with many more players than lines of code.
05:22:18 <ST2> I made couple forum posts, (including making Alberth anglry with me)
05:22:36 <ST2> and changed thousand lines to code
05:23:02 <ST2> but I got the friend's side on players
05:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i totally see how with your style of argument you make people angry.
05:24:13 <ST2> wait, people angry on what side?
05:25:02 <ST2> because without players, devs are useless
05:25:33 <ST2> wait, people angry on what side?
05:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> all the devs are also players
05:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (well, to a certain degree)
05:26:18 <ST2> I know players opinions... I deal with them everyday
05:27:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the point is not about players or devs. the point is you have a very narrow opinion, and you project that opinion onto other people
05:27:29 <ST2> and we, the "communities" deal with ~50% of online players
05:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but your perceived 50% is still just 0.5%
05:28:03 <ST2> unless you have a magic wand to know opinions of offline players
05:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you have a serious case of "filter bubble" going on
05:28:28 <ST2> and that's what I need to know
05:28:42 <ST2> how you get the opinions of offline players
05:29:32 <Eddi|zuHause> a filter bubble is when you surround yourself with people that share your opinion, and then assume that because everyone in your immediate surrounding has that opinion, the opinion must be universal
05:29:53 <ST2> [04:28:17] <Eddi|zuHause> you have a serious case of "filter bubble" going on
05:30:04 <ST2> [04:28:26] <ST2> and that's what I need to know
05:30:04 <ST2> [04:28:41] <ST2> how you get the opinions of offline players
05:30:04 <ST2> [04:28:51] <ST2> is there a secret?
05:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there are loads of people in the forum who play mostly single player... just have to listen to them.
05:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> like, check out the screenshot forum. totally different world to your "online community"
05:31:45 <ST2> I listen to them, I mostly listen to posts that are ignored - and I check them all
05:32:00 <ST2> that's my "filter bibble"
05:32:38 <ST2> if you see my HTPS access, you can see it
05:35:30 <ST2> in case you dnt have acess to that: I loaded ~1500 times the forum
05:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone have access to that?
05:36:40 <ST2> so, Eddi|zuHause, you're claiming that people using OpenTTD offline are bigger that online?
05:37:06 <ST2> and where can you check that?
05:37:44 <ST2> by myself, I download 10 times OpenTTD a week
05:38:09 <ST2> and on different computers
05:38:35 <ST2> work, home, pub, gf home, etc etc
05:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't check that, because OpenTTD does not record that data.
05:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't measure that, because OpenTTD does not record that data.
05:39:53 <ST2> for knowing... I repeated
05:40:26 <ST2> ofc, I guess you didn't know that
05:42:12 <ST2> I can have that data, from my side, whenever I acessed a specific "https" or "svn" or whatever
05:42:57 <ST2> if not controlled from server side, bad
05:43:24 <ST2> huge data there, but if not saved :S
05:46:18 <ST2> btw, Comodo CA limited, provides all that info
05:46:43 <ST2> ofc, if you have acess to it
05:47:44 <ST2> I guess Eddi|zuHause never played an online game since 1994
05:47:54 <ST2> this nis all strange to him ^^
05:50:04 <ST2> and by an online game, I mean not with his "pussy" friends, I mean a REAL online OpenTTD game
05:51:18 <ST2> well, this is how we measure how devs gets envolved with the game itself ^^
05:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> funny how you "drop the mic" 15 minutes after the conversation ended.
05:56:27 <ST2> well, was way better that say that to all!
05:57:27 <ST2> none = drop mic, he quited
05:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i gave up on this conversation like an hour ago, but you can't take hints, obviously
05:59:00 <ST2> I could used it earlier, but simply didn't wanted to ashamed you so soon
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06:03:03 <ST2> btw Eddi|zuHause: about OpenTTD, and what we've talked: can you say where you make testings?
06:03:49 <ST2> because our test servers are public and real players can touch it and TEST
06:06:40 <ST2> ** that's how DistCargo appeared - no replies = it's good" **
07:20:56 <Xal> ST2: I think what Eddi|zuHause was trying to tell you was that the burden of proof lies on the accuser, and claiming that the majority of players play MP requires data to back it up. Because there's no data on the total number of player (offline) there's no way to back up your claim
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11:19:01 <Wolf01> ha... Project Ara (the modular smartphone from LG/Google) lost the full customisation... it will end with just the customisable cover and the ability to replace the battery
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12:00:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> mfw I split lines and then merged then immediately because I wasn't paying attention
12:05:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm gonna leave the construction in place since it's fully balanced and it would take more work to delete it than it's worth lol
12:28:42 <Wolf01> /¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯\
12:28:48 <Wolf01> all aboard the hype train
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15:14:21 <Samu> i stumbled upon a log with st2 arguing
15:16:00 <Samu> i'm sorry st2, but you started the "war"
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15:20:51 <Samu> for me, CargoDist is an interesting change of pace, but I agree, it's confusing at first
15:22:31 <supermop> not sure why some people find it offensive
15:26:40 <Samu> the rest of the discussion is... uhm.... "irrelevant" to the topic at hand: CargoDist
15:33:49 <Samu> CargoDist in multiplayer, might work better on those servers without goal, sandbox style
15:38:01 <Samu> I don't think people hate CargoDist because they dislike it, but rather because they don't know how it works. I didn't like it at first, mainly because I didn't know what was happening
15:38:30 <Samu> there is a learning curve that players have to go thru
15:38:54 <Samu> but I guess most don't want to
15:46:45 <Wolf01> I enable it and connect everything, then I'll upgrade some lines or others depending on the needs
15:46:57 <Wolf01> I don't know how it works and I don't want to
15:47:44 <Wolf01> it's just another mean to give some movement to the game, like industry closures and production changes
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15:53:48 <Samu> yes Wolf01 - i also find CargoDist more tailored towards long lasting games
15:54:27 <Samu> btpro servers are mostly competitive games that don't tend to last too long.
15:54:42 <Samu> i see why it doesn't become popular
15:55:54 <supermop> no reason you can't have a 'competitive' game with CD, it's just that the existing competitive servers and GS use criteria that don't take advantage of it at all
15:59:59 <V453000> every time we tried cargodist, it would start doing weird shit with a big network, and not giving any gameplay benefit at all
16:01:33 <Alberth> solving shit isn't the fun part? :)
16:03:27 <V453000> it was shit you can't solve
16:03:38 <V453000> I don't remember specifically, but it happens every single time
16:03:49 <_dp_> CD is much like a GS on its own, conflicts with almost any other gs/goal.
16:04:17 <V453000> once like 95% of farm supplies prefered 1 farm cluster in FIRS, another time some passengers decided it is a good thing to wait at the station for wtf reason
16:04:44 <V453000> IF it had a nice gameplay-enhancing concept, I could see the point
16:05:38 <Samu> why would passengers want to go to a farm
16:05:47 <Samu> farm accepts passengers?
16:05:49 <Wolf01> V453000, maybe the other farm paid more, and the passengers were doing something
16:06:16 <Alberth> disabled preference for local delivery, I hope?
16:06:42 <V453000> I don't really know anymore Alberth
16:06:57 <Alberth> but yeah, it starts working when you connect things, so biggest trouble arises when you connect everything(tm)
16:07:12 <V453000> but most likely our settings were proper, most likely I discussed the issue when it was hot in this channel
16:08:44 <Wolf01> the only time I found a weird situation was when I changed the direction of the traffic because I removed an old loop around a lake replacing it with a more suitable (and fast) double track with a bridge, but I had to connect it on the other side of a station
16:09:21 <Wolf01> while before it was A-B-C-D, it bacame A-C-B-C-D and the network exploded
16:09:30 <V453000> it probably always has a chance do do some weird shit, but since we build huge networks, that chance usually (always so far) gets triggered
16:22:32 <Samu> 2 min 30 secs to download, then 3 min 10 secs to catch-up
16:22:56 <Samu> there's more than 15k vehicles in it
16:24:02 <Wolf01> oh wait... there aren't cars in ottd :(
16:24:32 <Wolf01> Anybody who wants to add cars so we can have these? :D
16:29:15 <Samu> server is so slow that sometimes it disappears from the master server list
16:29:32 <supermop> i never have had 'weird' problems with CD, even with every town on the map connected in one network, and local trams or buses within those towns
16:30:40 <supermop> i do get lines or nodes that become stressed over capacity, but i see that as part of the point of CD, to selectively determine which trunks need more bandwidth
16:31:14 <supermop> rather than a point to point mesh that eventually is just homogeneous over the whole map
16:32:17 <Wolf01> play mini metro, that's paxdest on steroids
16:46:11 <supermop> Wolf01: actually i find homogeneous mesh is a valid strategey in mini metro
16:46:46 <Wolf01> I still fail with every strategy
16:47:43 <Wolf01> tries with a mesh, trunks and branches, triangles, circles, squares, clouds, dogs and dicks
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16:48:38 <supermop> Wolf01: i dont think it is possible to not fail
16:49:08 <Wolf01> with "fail" I mean that I transport <1000 passengers before failing hard
16:49:26 <Wolf01> usually I'm on 480-650
17:06:00 <Samu> i have a problem to solve, it requires savegame conversion
17:06:42 <Samu> "- Implemented a fix that corrects the name of AIs that are started via startai command in the console when the parameter also included the version. Saving a game will thus, store the correct name of the AI from now on. Loading previous savegames that have stored the incorrect name will still fail to recognize the intended name of the AI."
17:09:13 <Samu> i wanted to convert the name that is incorrectly stored on old saves into the correct name
17:10:28 <Samu> problem is that how would it distinguish which name is right from which name is wrong
17:11:00 <Samu> something Wolf01 said to me yesterday
17:11:41 <Samu> there is no real way to tell, is it?
17:16:16 <Wolf01> I said that was the wrong approach for the problem
17:17:17 <Wolf01> maybe you should find why it pass the folder name to the function instead of the display name, and not trying to fix the string at the end
17:20:41 <Samu> it doesn't pass folder name
17:20:56 <Samu> i type in console: startai wormai.4
17:21:26 <Samu> it takes the 'wormai.4' part to search for a wormai with version 4, it does this part correctly
17:21:43 <Samu> however, it forgets to put the correct name once it finds it
17:21:55 <Samu> it leaves wormai.4 as the name of the AI
17:22:23 <Wolf01> then you need to get the real name when the search function finds it
17:22:40 <Samu> my fix was actually that
17:23:34 <Wolf01> but you shouldn't edit the strings directly (eg. removing the .4)
17:24:11 <Samu> i put this after line 25 of script_config.cpp
17:24:13 <Samu> this->name = (info == NULL) ? NULL : stredup(GetInfo()->GetName());
17:24:44 <Samu> info == NULL would mean that it did not find any wormai with version 4
17:26:53 <Samu> if there is INFO, it changes this->name into the intended name
17:27:08 <Samu> this->name goes from wormai.4 to WormAI
17:30:23 <Samu> I am, however, wondering if this fix breaks something else
17:30:32 <Samu> i am assuming that it doesn't
17:30:50 <Wolf01> you need to find where is used this->name
17:31:20 <Samu> it is used on ai_sl.cpp for example
17:31:59 <Wolf01> then you might want to add this->realname and use that, leaving this->name untouched
17:44:01 <Samu> you're right, i can't do it like this
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17:57:31 <Samu> if (this->info != NULL) this->name = (GetInfo()->GetName());
17:58:28 <Wolf01> it's almost the same as before
17:58:32 <Samu> doesn't change "none" to NULL anymore, but... it's the wrong approach
18:01:28 <Samu> woah, it really is searching for a scriptI by the name none
18:01:50 <Samu> what would happen if someone actually creates an AI with this name
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18:05:50 <Samu> i got to fix it at the console_cmds.cpp
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18:26:29 <Samu> config->Change(config->GetInfo()->GetName()); - pointer to incomplete class type is not allowed
18:29:38 <Samu> 3>..\src\console_cmds.cpp(1175): error C2027: use of undefined type 'AIInfo'
18:29:43 <Samu> 3> d:\openttd\trunk\src\company_base.h(118): note: see declaration of 'AIInfo'
18:29:48 <Samu> 3>..\src\console_cmds.cpp(1175): error C2227: left of '->GetName' must point to class/struct/union/generic type
18:31:52 <Samu> company_base.h, line 118: class AIInfo *ai_info;
18:32:07 <Samu> I have no idea what I'm looking at :(
18:33:28 <Samu> these errors are chinese to me, no idea what's undefined, what's declaration, what's class/struct/union... :(
18:39:30 <TrueBrain> or .. any programming book, if class/struct/union is unknown to you
18:41:44 <Alberth> nah, that would be too easy
18:42:33 <TrueBrain> I am afraid the word is: too hard :P
18:42:50 <Alberth> also a valid option :)
18:43:28 <TrueBrain> I am still considering frosch only boots up till someone said quak ..
18:43:54 <Alberth> he reads the log, looking for quaks :)
18:43:59 <frosch123> hoi mammals and gastropodes :)
18:44:28 <TrueBrain> I am gassy today, that is for sure
19:08:01 <Alberth> all problems solved \o/
19:08:46 <Samu> I hope it is correcting the name now
19:11:02 <Samu> I only want to change the name, not the whole script
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20:06:37 <Wolf01> you don't even need the else, just put the code between the 2 ifs
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20:12:42 <Samu> Change(stuff, stuff, stuff, stuff) - does a lot of stuff than just changing the name :(
20:13:07 <Samu> void ScriptConfig::Change(const char *name, int version, bool force_exact_match, bool is_random)
20:16:19 <Samu> AIInfo *AIScannerInfo::FindInfo(const char *nameParam, int versionParam, bool force_exact_match)
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20:16:34 <Samu> this is the real information retriever
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20:17:21 <Samu> there's a GameInfo version too
20:19:40 <Samu> feels like a network of functions
20:22:51 <Samu> it changes the name, yes, but then also searches the system for an AI with the changed name, and if I had told to start version 4 of wormai, now it is going to load the most up-date version, so I can't do it like that
20:23:20 <Samu> it was going to load version 5
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20:32:41 <Samu> there are a lot of functions that depend on Change function
20:33:04 <Wormnest> Nice, does it work for all cases now?
20:33:30 <Samu> I don't know how to answer that
20:33:47 <Samu> they stored the wrong name
20:34:04 <Samu> loading them back will still give the same error you were getting
20:34:17 <Wormnest> Well I´m not too sure that´s correct
20:34:22 <Samu> new saves, however, will store the correct name
20:34:46 <Samu> loading back will not give that error, but will still load the latest available version of WormAI
20:34:48 <Wormnest> I´ve been thinking about it and I think storing wormai.4 instead of wormai was on purpose
20:35:33 <Wormnest> It was done to differentiate with a normally loaded ai
20:36:13 <Wormnest> This also means I think that the purpose was to be able to load back the explicitly set version of the ai
20:36:56 <Samu> you're refering to the 2nd savegame? it has it stored as WormAI
20:37:50 <Samu> the bug is originated from within the console :(
20:38:28 <Samu> 1st savegame has it stored as wormai.4 - this was what you had input in the console
20:38:29 <Wormnest> starting as startai wormai.4 stores name in savegame as wormai.4
20:38:43 <Wormnest> but starting normal saves as wormai
20:39:15 <Samu> it's a console command bug in my opinion, what led me to check what was is really doing
20:39:41 <Wormnest> I think it´s on purpose but I might be wrong
20:40:03 <Wormnest> If you add a command to load an explicit version of an ai instead of the latest version
20:40:27 <Wormnest> It also makes sense that you would want to load that version back from a savegame
20:40:59 <Wormnest> Thus you cannot save it as wormai and store version 4, but you need to add something thus wormai.4
20:41:20 <Samu> it stores both, name and version
20:41:37 <Samu> name was being stored as wormai.4, version was stored as 4
20:41:52 <Samu> uhm yes? so hmm I'm confused
20:42:15 <Wormnest> But if it stored name as wormai then you could not distinguis between wormai loaded normally
20:42:43 <Wormnest> and an older wormai version loaded explicitly when a newer version was already available
20:43:37 <Samu> min_loadable_version for both version 4 and version 5 is 1
20:43:46 <Wormnest> that´s why it stores it as wormai.4 meaning ok we know this isn´t the latest version but that´s the one we want
20:44:17 <Samu> hmm let me test again with my fix
20:44:45 <Wormnest> but ofcourse I´m only guessing I´m not the one who wrote the code :)
20:45:00 <Samu> there's more checkings done other than just the name
20:45:10 <Samu> it checks version if it finds an ai with that name
20:45:28 <Samu> since it was working with the wrong name, it wasn't even going to check the version
20:45:59 <Wormnest> Yea that was clear from the console messages
20:46:34 <Samu> let me find the piece of code that works with that information
20:46:53 <Samu> if (strcasecmp(ai_name, i->GetName()) == 0 && i->CanLoadFromVersion(versionParam) && (version == -1 || i->GetVersion() > version)) {
20:47:06 <Wormnest> By the way the documentation claims that the intention is to always load the version of the ai it was saved with:
20:48:02 <Samu> strcasecmp(ai_name, i->GetName()) == 0 - this part was always false
20:48:12 <Samu> version was never checked
20:49:08 <Samu> it's quite a labyrinth of information being passed around
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20:50:36 <Samu> i->CanLoadFromVersion - this i is the script it found on the system, there's 2 wormais in my rig, wormai version 4 and wormai version 5
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20:51:40 <Samu> compares the min_loadable_version that is on wormai 4 in the system and the version stored in the savegame
20:51:53 <Samu> then does the same for wormai 5
20:52:20 <Samu> and comes up with the most up to date version which can load that save, it's wormai 5
20:52:29 <Samu> at least it's what I think it's doing
20:52:58 <Samu> had you set wormai 5 with a min loadable version of 5
20:53:07 <Samu> i bet it would only load wormai 4
20:53:20 <Wormnest> That´s what I think it´s doing too, the question is was that really the intention
20:54:18 <Samu> savegame stored it as 4, forgot to mention
21:01:14 <Samu> heh, how do you guys always find this documentation
21:02:02 <Alberth> usually by function name
21:02:32 <Alberth> ie you look for a function name that looks what you are looking for , go to it, and start reading
21:03:10 <Samu> i just follow visual studio jumping around and try to understand why
21:03:52 <Alberth> I run grep with parts of names that the function likely contains
21:05:24 <Samu> there's 5 different results i see
21:05:52 <Samu> with the bug it was jumping towards result 3 in that doc
21:07:08 <Samu> with the fix, it jumps to 2, it seems
21:07:08 <Samu> load the latest version of the same script that supports loading data from the saved version (the version of saved data must be equal or greater than AIInfo::MinVersionToLoad),
21:07:34 <Samu> it skips version 4, because version 5 is compatible
21:15:42 <Samu> convinces me there's something wrong
21:16:23 <Samu> As soon as one step succeeds, the sequence is stopped: Try to load the exact same version of the same AI.
21:16:55 <Samu> it isn't doing exactly like this
21:18:13 <Samu> as soon as one step succeeds, the sequence is stopped, hmm... that's not what I see it doing
21:19:40 <Samu> Try to load the exact same version of the same AI. - it finds it, but it doesn't stop here, it is iterating over all versions
21:20:01 <Samu> and gets the most up to date that is compatible
21:20:55 <Samu> documentation says that it stops :(
21:21:17 <Samu> it's not what it does in the code, or .... uhm... whatever
21:21:29 <Alberth> one of them is wrong, and it's not the code :p
21:22:12 <Alberth> although you should probably check the changes in that area, see what was changed last
21:25:22 <Wormnest> I think loading the latest version is indeed the intention
21:25:45 <Wormnest> Except maybe for the case where you explicitly loaded an older version of an ai
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21:27:12 <Samu> i see, let me check what comes next
21:27:55 <Samu> line 86 config->Change(_ai_saveload_name, _ai_saveload_version, false, _ai_saveload_is_random);
21:28:16 <Samu> tries to match name and version
21:28:42 <Samu> it does not find it, so next step is in line...
21:28:56 <Samu> line 90 config->Change(_ai_saveload_name, -1, false, _ai_saveload_is_random);
21:29:59 <Samu> only tries to match name now
21:30:51 <Samu> name is still wormai.4, it takes .4 it splits it into 2 parts, wormai and 4
21:31:46 <Samu> /* We want to load the latest version of this AI; so find it */
21:31:56 <Samu> /* If we didn't find a match AI, maybe the user included a version */
21:32:06 <Samu> yes, but why in the name?
21:33:11 <Samu> /* See if there is a compatible AI which goes by that name, with the highest * version which allows loading the requested version */
21:33:38 <Samu> it's doing this cycle again, but now with the name separated from the version
21:34:48 <Samu> versionParam is 4, even though it was -1 initially
21:35:23 <Samu> it is still going to load version 5
21:35:37 <Samu> but this time, it is discarding the saved data
21:36:19 <Samu> DEBUG(script, 0, "The latest version of that AI has been loaded instead, but it'll not get the savegame data as it's incompatible.");
21:36:44 <Samu> AI::Load(index, _ai_saveload_version); _ai_saveload_version at this point is -1
21:36:59 <Samu> -1 means, discard whatever was saved
21:37:50 <Samu> if (this->engine == NULL || version == -1) { LoadEmpty();
21:48:53 <Samu> gonna try force_exact_match = true
21:49:33 <Samu> line 86 of ai_sl.cpp, changing it to config->Change(_ai_saveload_name, _ai_saveload_version, true, _ai_saveload_is_random);
21:50:41 <Samu> oops, this is line 90, i'm stupid
21:50:56 <Samu> config->Change(_ai_saveload_name, _ai_saveload_version, true, _ai_saveload_is_random);
21:55:37 <Samu> 0x000000caf1cfe340 "wormai.4.4" - keks, it's doing worse
21:58:02 <Samu> it took wormai.4, and appended .4 at the end of it, now it's searching for wormai.4.4 on the system, there is no such version
21:58:11 <Samu> there is wormai.4 and wormai.5
22:00:04 <Samu> and now, it is comparing wormai.4 to WormAI
22:02:29 <Samu> gonna try yet another approach
22:07:44 <Samu> yes, it loaded wormai.4 from the savegame
22:09:01 <Samu> i'm not totally sure if this is without issues, needs more testing
22:10:10 <Samu> if I do this to ai_sl.cpp, i must do it to game_sl.cpp as well
22:13:41 <Samu> however, i'm worried about passing -1 as the version
22:13:59 <Samu> dinner time, will check this later
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22:42:16 <Samu> can't pass version -1 at that point :(
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23:09:52 * Emiel slaps ST2 around a bit with a large fishbot
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23:53:35 <Samu> i have another fix in testing
23:54:06 <Samu> this one required me to write a bit of code
23:54:15 <Samu> more like... copy pasting code
continue to next day ⏵
