IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-05-24
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00:28:47 <Gja> Samu AMD never aimed to beat nvidia anyway
00:29:00 <Gja> they can beat them by other means.
00:36:57 <Samu> I have a feeling Intel isn't sleeping either
00:37:13 <Samu> 72 CU on their latest Iris
00:37:46 <Samu> this next AMD event is going to disappoint on both sides, APU and GPU.
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00:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> <Gja> they can beat them by other means. <-- in the old days the called that "überholen ohne aufzuholen" [overtaking without catching up] and was a propaganda thing how the east would be better than the west
00:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> by pulling out random statistics like "strawberry production in the east was higher than in the west this year"
00:50:41 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: strawberries: the most strategic fruit?
00:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> (might actually have been "einholen" instead of "aufholen")
00:56:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (means practically the same thing, though)
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01:11:04 <Samu> i better update the screenshot in the main topic, it's a bit outdated
01:13:16 <Gja> The CPU's is where the money is... Gpu's is more of a side buisness they have
01:16:43 <Gja> I believe it is berholen ohne einzuholen Eddi|zuHause :P
01:17:38 <Samu> can u spot all differences from original ?
01:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Gja: well, as far as i can tell, that practice was already over by the time i grew up
01:20:45 <Gja> I kind of find it frustrating Intel have around 70% of the gpu market
01:22:03 <Eddi|zuHause> aren't they focusing on onboard stuff?
01:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (i've been kinda not following that at all)
01:22:35 <Gja> I think so, but the reason Intel is so dominant is because of the buisness world.
01:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that worked for microsoft...
01:23:32 <Gja> It did spawn the intel graphics and have been dominating the market ever since
01:24:21 <Gja> I kind of feel bad for AMD and want them to succeed
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11:50:09 <peter1138> Hey! Been trying to meet you, ooh woah woah
11:50:47 <Samu> I'm hosting a server, with a client spectating
11:51:17 <Samu> it is having difficulty syncing at the end/start of months, why's that
11:51:25 <Samu> the client is in the same network
11:53:14 <Samu> i'm the server and the client at the same time, on the same computer, there should be no reason to have the client lag behind, something's odd happening
11:58:07 <Wolf01> mmmh, I'm not in the mood for hunting a wordpress vulnerability :|
12:06:22 * peter1138 wonders what headphones to get.
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12:13:24 <Samu> it happens at the 30th Oct transitioning to 1st Nov
12:14:10 <Samu> both server and client stall for a while, but the client stalls longer than the server, it isn't accompanying the server, lags behind for some reason
12:14:51 <peter1138> So find out what is causing it.
12:16:29 <peter1138> Anything but making a pointless video that is no help to anyone.
12:17:36 <Samu> i couldn't think of a better way to reproduce it
12:20:05 <Samu> it does this every month transitioning
12:20:22 <Samu> have no idea where to begin
12:20:43 <Samu> both server and client aren't autosaving
12:34:42 <Samu> something came to mind. maybe the server and clients have to advance both by performing the same long tick step. it's just that the server starts doing it first, stalling client once, then when it gets through, the client begins doing that same long step, stalling twice, then playing catch-up with the server.
12:37:40 <Samu> in essence, there's 3 stalls, right?
12:37:50 <Samu> catch-up is considered a stall
12:44:59 <Samu> that long tick step sometimes last for more than 5 seconds, client is getting a "possible connection lost"
13:05:16 <peter1138> So you know now that it'll probably be stalling with just the server running. Probably.
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15:46:40 <supermop> designing this back yard makes me wish i had a roof deck
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16:21:17 <supermop> landlord doesn't let us up on the roof
16:33:18 <FR^2> supermop: so no "casually dropping from the roof" today?
16:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> use google maps?
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16:59:37 <Samu> i want to do something too complex for me
17:01:03 <Samu> there is a time that 1 slot is dealing with 2 configs
17:02:20 <Samu> want to know how it's possible to grab the config of the current ai instance
17:02:41 <Samu> but the instance is dead
17:05:42 <Samu> in the example, I'm changing WrightAI to CivilAI
17:06:06 <Samu> it gets the WrightAI and then overwrites it with CivilAI stuff in it
17:06:37 <Samu> I want to grab the WrightAI stuff for posterior use, i don't know how to do this
17:19:33 <Samu> hey Wormnest i'm still running the game with 15 wormais
17:20:14 <Samu> it's been 60 years, no crashes so far, only 1 wormai couldn't do anything
17:20:17 <Wormnest> Cool, how are they doing
17:20:39 <Samu> i set him to do trains only, couldn't start, because of that loan thing
17:21:12 <Wormnest> Yea that should be fixed in my dev version
17:21:28 <Samu> also have one wormai that was only doing aircraft
17:21:48 <Samu> he did better than all others up to a point
17:22:13 <Samu> suddenly he starts getting rid of airports and aircrafts, his profit starts lowering
17:22:34 <Samu> not in a dangerous way, but it was strange
17:22:52 <Samu> eventually all the other wormAis which are using aircraft+train
17:23:00 <Samu> managed to catch him up in profits
17:23:03 <Wormnest> That´s when an new airport type is introduced
17:23:27 <Wormnest> It starts upgrading all of them without looking if that´s smart
17:23:48 <Samu> the other wormais are probably doing the same, but they have trains to support this i guess
17:23:57 <Wormnest> I have some improvements for that here that I haven´t committed yet
17:24:25 <Wormnest> If air is turned on then yes they all do that
17:25:58 <Samu> in the early years, the best wormai was red, now, after 60 years in-game, he's the 2nd worst
17:27:58 <Samu> those parameters were working great before the faster planes came out
17:28:53 <Samu> then the aircraft only wormai got ahead of him, while this red wormai was slowing down profits, up to what it stands now, 60 years later
17:29:22 <Samu> were initially the worst ones
17:29:36 <Wormnest> That´s probably because you have red set to short distances which is great for starting with slower planes
17:29:55 <Wormnest> but in the long run with fast planes longer distances will earn a lot more
17:32:36 <Samu> i have a couple of ais parameters set with tighter distances
17:33:19 <Samu> the bad part of this test is that they are also using trains
17:33:32 <Samu> and i can't come to a clear conclusion by looking just at the profit graph
17:33:36 <Samu> i intend to repeat the tests
17:34:33 <Samu> oh ya, i also got a 500 to 600
17:34:40 <Wormnest> I intend to remove the distances settings and try to figure out min/max based on date, plane speed etc
17:35:26 <Samu> i wanted to find out if a too long of a min distance isn't at times a good idea
17:35:59 <Samu> but then as stupid as I am, i also allowed them to make trains :p
17:38:44 <Wormnest> Well you could have turned off trains at a later date too
17:41:02 <Samu> looking at finances for aircraft
17:42:16 <Samu> from left to right, mix/max distances are 300 to 400, 350 to 450, 400 to 500, 500 to 600
17:42:38 <Samu> seems that 500 to 600 yields better aircraft income
17:46:14 <Samu> wormais 12 13 14 and 15 use default values for distance, but different values for min town size
17:47:20 <Wormnest> It depends on more factors and as Alberth said that can change over time
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17:48:48 <Samu> and it's Green in the profit graph
17:48:54 <Samu> it's in 3rd place, if i see it right
17:50:02 <Samu> it trades blow with pale green, let me check
17:50:26 <Wormnest> It might also have had a little profit of starting first
17:50:50 <Wormnest> Although with such a large map with such high vehicle limits probably doesn matter much
17:50:52 <Samu> wormai 14 has a min town size of 1500, i believe, gonna check
17:51:55 <Wormnest> Another thing is how do you measure how well they perform
17:52:10 <Wormnest> Operating profit isn´t they only way you can look at it
17:52:29 <Samu> pink and cream had a bad start
17:52:40 <Samu> 1500/2000 min town size respectively
17:53:16 <Samu> red had best start, due to short distance and slower planes
17:53:33 <Samu> purple at the start was in the middle of the crowd
17:53:34 <Wormnest> What would be funny to see if you turned on infrastructure costs now lol
17:53:46 <Samu> not the worst, and not the best
17:53:58 <Samu> purple is the one with only aircraft and no trains
17:54:45 <Samu> so, in these last years, I expect pink to come as the winner
17:55:48 <Wormnest> Must be terribly slow
17:55:54 <Samu> may take 2 more days, it's horribly slow yes
17:56:16 <Samu> there are ticks taking 5+ seconds to process
17:57:10 <Samu> i don't quite understand how cream is keeping it up
17:59:38 <Samu> wormai 12, cream, has set a min town size of 100
17:59:54 <Wormnest> There are probably enough larger towns now especially on that size map
18:00:41 <Wormnest> but it picks a random town larger than that
18:01:01 <Wormnest> with many towns there´s a good chance the town it picks will be larger
18:02:42 <Samu> min town sizes: wormai 12 = 100, wormai 1 = 500 (default), wormai 13 = 1000, wormai 14 = 1500, wormai 15 = 2000
18:04:08 <Samu> there's white and brown, they have the thinking speed different than all others
18:05:05 <Wormnest> Testing town sizes probably works better if you use a smaller map that way the choice will be more limited
18:05:27 <Wormnest> or a map with less towns
18:05:58 <Samu> white thinking speed = slow, brown = normal
18:06:16 <Samu> i thought of running 8 openttd instances of the same map
18:06:36 <Samu> only 1 wormai per openttd
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18:08:25 <Samu> i'd like choice not to be a limiting factor, but maybe you're right
18:09:23 <Samu> with so many towns, the chances of large towns are also higher
18:09:35 <Samu> yeah, maybe i'll make a 512x512 test
18:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> is that discriminatory to non-mammals?
18:28:09 <Alkel_U3> lizzard people here?
18:28:33 <frosch123> there are snails and stuff
18:30:20 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe there would be more of them here if the environment wasn't so hostile?
18:31:15 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: most here are zombies
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19:07:30 <supermop> andythenorth: rock or succulent garden can do without much care
19:07:51 <andythenorth> I have tub plants on a deck
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19:09:25 <supermop> build a working scale garden monorail
19:10:11 <Samu> did you work on terragenesis?
19:10:59 <andythenorth> that is a significant over-estimate of my programming abilities ;)
19:11:06 <Samu> oh :( i forgot who did it
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19:11:54 <Samu> i get several 7>..\src\genworld_gui.cpp(290): warning C4334: '<<': result of 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits (was 64-bit shift intended?)
19:14:00 <Samu> a year, maybe more, i remember there was someone working on the terragenesis
19:14:16 <Samu> can't recall for sure :(
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19:19:22 <supermop> andythenorth: espresso machine and micro-batch roasting is a good way to blow a ton of money on a hobby
19:19:37 <supermop> fiancee wants to open a bar/cafe
19:19:48 <andythenorth> I am bored of nespresso pods
19:20:21 <supermop> mazzer grinder etc etc
19:20:31 <andythenorth> a friend of mine has that I think
19:20:33 <supermop> 10 grand gone in the blink of an eye
19:20:56 <supermop> and then you'll be cursed to never enjoy cheap coffee again
19:21:17 <andythenorth> ah, he doesn’t have a linea mini; he has a coffee machine that google images found as related :P
19:22:04 <supermop> i wanted to ask for a linea mini as a wedding gift, but we have no room in the apartment, and fiancee thought it was a bit much to ask some unlucking soul to buy that
19:22:50 <supermop> so my coffee nerding currently stops at pourover, aero press, and an acaia scale
19:23:20 <andythenorth> maybe I should take up stick whittling
19:23:33 <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you see the air turbine dragster?
19:24:00 <andythenorth> I was convinced it was just for show
19:24:07 <andythenorth> but no, it works, and is really simple
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19:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i apparently had an internet-outage last night, about 7 hours... the longest ever, as far as i remember
19:52:32 <frosch123> most people do that
19:52:41 <frosch123> 7.5 hours are average for an adult iirc
19:52:46 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, so THAT's what that is.
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21:01:12 <andythenorth> hmm, actually, no that’s how much I do get these days
21:01:21 * andythenorth gets back in his box
21:03:17 <supermop> sounds like a lot for a parent, andy
21:14:39 <andythenorth> I go to bed early ;)
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21:18:23 <andythenorth> well, maybe not that early
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21:42:53 <Majestic_Trains> anyone online?
21:43:04 <Majestic_Trains> il take that as no, bye
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21:46:29 <Samu> the biggest capacity aircraft are out
21:47:43 <Samu> have you considered refiting some aircraft to mail?
21:48:52 <Samu> refit ratio is 100% for default aircraft for some reason
21:49:23 <Samu> and mail is more valuable than passenger
21:49:55 <Samu> but availability perhaps
21:50:15 <Samu> there's way more passengers waiting at airports than mail
21:51:03 <Wormnest__> yea probably more than mail
21:51:46 <Wormnest__> still might be an idea to think about sometime if one of the airports on a route is short on passengers
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