IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-05-23
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00:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> err... "server crashing clients" is ALWAYS an issue.
00:28:04 <_dp_> even if it takes patched server? also just uncatched exception so no exploiting it
00:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause> servers can never be trusted
00:30:01 <_dp_> well, strings compilation throws when it encounters invalid utf, so if server manages to send one client will probably crash
00:46:57 <_dp_> hm, not sure how but looks like it doesn't crash
00:49:35 <_dp_> darn exceptions are hard to follow :(
00:58:41 <_dp_> ok, savegame loading calls str_validate, so everything's fine, nvm
01:08:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
01:20:42 <Samu> oh, i have had the opposite happening to me[23:19] <Eddi|zuHause> err... "server crashing clients" is ALWAYS an issue.
01:21:06 <Samu> There are rare occurences that a client crashes the server
01:21:17 <Samu> usually happens with gs running in the server
01:21:43 <Samu> he joins, server crashes for no apparent reason
01:35:26 <Samu> ah, i remember, an "Access violation on free ", while doing memory operation stuff
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13:25:27 <argoneus> good morning train friends
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15:16:04 <Mazur> Hm, in the new Toyland to Mars you can;t upgrade concrete bridges to suspension, you have to demolish and replace.
15:17:40 <V453000> is there a new one? :d
15:18:13 <Mazur> And now I suddenly can.
15:20:19 <Mazur> And I still have issues with r27534 thinking one i7 CPU is not enough to run it.
15:24:31 <Mazur> 1.6.0 runs fine on Stable.
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15:33:13 <Wolf01> we have 2 or 3 guys which are building a lot of italian trains, I've seen them the last weekend and they are really well done
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15:51:36 <V453000> Mazur: I don't see how 8.0 grf pack is NEW XD
15:53:12 <Mazur> When it is something I just found out about yesterday and doewnloaded it then, is was new to me. So there.
16:04:18 <supermop> can toyland use tropic climate code?
16:04:32 <V453000> what do you mean by code?
16:04:46 <supermop> like, towns can only grow on carpet, not wood floor>
16:05:03 <V453000> it doesn't have snow/desert so idk
16:05:20 <V453000> but temperate neither
16:05:34 <V453000> so what works in temperate, should work in toyland
16:08:09 <V453000> to me toyland is just a different condition for replace
16:08:17 <V453000> plus cutsey shit like different industries, but that's everywhere
16:08:47 <V453000> which is why I totally don't get why does someone not support toyland in their newgrf
16:12:23 <V453000> if you make a newgrf which defines -thing-
16:12:37 <V453000> it will work the same way in all climates including toyland
16:13:00 <V453000> so if some newgrfs don't work in toyland, it is because they explicitly made it not work there for no reason
16:13:26 <V453000> of course there is shit like cargo graphics etc, but if you are really lazy about it you can just let cargo classes do the magic with normal cargo graphics
16:27:30 <supermop> if people are so hung up on 'serious' graphics looking out of place in toyland, why not cobble together some non serious sprites?
16:29:34 <V453000> that's extra effort, I totally understand people don't want to make 'weird' stuff
16:29:55 <V453000> but removing functionality from toyland just because I don't like that climate or I think it doesn't fit, is bad
16:43:59 <supermop> brio style building would be easy to make
16:44:34 <supermop> render a plain block with a beechwood texture and gloss red roof, black line windows
16:44:49 <supermop> a brio steel mill sprite would be even easier
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16:45:39 <supermop> if i ever get a working computer at home again maybe i'll make andy some unsolicited brio firs sprites
16:53:09 <Wolf01> when I was a kid, I didn't even had the rails
16:56:29 <Wolf01> please... this is too much, I had to play fallout 4 to be able to leave factorio from my mind until 0.13
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17:04:12 <V453000> 0.13 will make you never leave again
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17:40:02 <Samu> i have a sketchy idea what to do with the Debug window now
17:40:26 <Samu> Settings button and Reload AI button are both removed
17:40:45 <Samu> reload ai is re-located to the ai config window instead
17:40:49 <V453000> I am searching for ideas what to do with the BRIX bulldozed land
17:40:53 <Samu> settings is already there too
17:40:53 <V453000> many holes just doesn't work
17:41:08 <V453000> [1 hole per tile doesn't work, it tiles horribly]
17:41:22 <V453000> in more bulldozed areas it is 100% invisible what the terrain looks like
17:41:27 <V453000> smaller holes perhaps?
17:41:28 <Samu> on the other window, the Close button in ai config button is replaced with the reload AI button
17:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> why holes and not just a flat colour?
17:42:06 <Samu> AI Debug window is basically just an AI log
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17:43:01 <Alberth> Stakes at the corners?
17:43:22 <Samu> this way, there's only 1 way to access AI Parameters
17:43:40 <Alberth> hmm, must be flat probably :(
17:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> black/yellow stripes
17:43:47 <Alkel_U3> hole to a stary field dimension from edge to edge?
17:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "under construction"
17:44:05 <Samu> eh, i see u guys are busy, be back later
17:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (i have actually no clue how BRIX looks currently.)
17:45:07 <Alberth> red/white marker tape along the edge?
17:46:12 <Alberth> tracks from the bulldozer?
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17:48:25 <supermop> V453000: just slightly bumpy?
17:49:08 <V453000> interesting ideas, lets' see
17:49:17 <V453000> will probably try smaller holes first
17:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, from a gameplay point of view, bulldozing is supposed to make the tile flat, not dig holes in it.
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17:51:36 <Alberth> sort of inverted rubble :)
17:53:40 <Eddi|zuHause> also, holes don't magically fill themselves when grass grows over it
17:55:12 <Alkel_U3> perhaps if the holes had giant earthworms in them, it would look more like they're gonna fill it?
17:56:11 <Alkel_U3> Maybe it would look better if the holes were sunk from edge to edge, full of rubble and thus tile well - if you insist on the holes
18:00:16 <Alberth> Samu: AI debug being AI log sounds good, single purpose for each window is good idea. breakpoint does stay there I hope?
18:00:48 <Alberth> you do need to dig out the foundations too :)
18:03:59 <Alberth> underground support for the wall, so it doesn't sink into the ground over the years
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18:05:26 <Samu> oh, that's not for me, sorry
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18:19:34 <Samu> hmm i can't exactly eliminate the Close button, it is being re-used for the Close button in the download AI Content window
18:21:05 <Samu> network_content_gui.cpp, line 1021
18:21:16 <Samu> with a misleading name STR_AI_SETTINGS_CLOSE
18:23:01 <Samu> i see, should I rename this one?
18:23:54 <Wolf01> no, didn't you remember what happened last time you tried to rename a string?
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18:28:23 <supermop> no andy to give me more freelance sprites
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19:08:34 <Samu> it appears I don't have to add anything, i just renamed the widget
19:08:46 <Samu> WID_AIC_CLOSE to WID_AIC_RELOAD
19:09:22 <Samu> re-using the ReloadAI strings
19:11:26 <Samu> there's still the X at the top left corner of the window to close it
19:12:08 <Alberth> close is a weird button
19:12:40 <Samu> sec, let me grab a screenshot
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19:16:40 <Samu> screenshot feature doesn't capture mouse cursor
19:16:48 <Samu> but it was pointing towards Reload AI
19:18:06 <Samu> thing I'm done for the AI Config window now, moving on to AI Debug
19:19:22 <Alberth> AI config is a weird window, I don't like it, for some reason
19:21:50 <Samu> there's something i'd like to do later on
19:22:05 <Samu> drag configs from a slot to another, instead of move up/down
19:22:12 <Samu> but i assume it's going to be hard
19:24:31 <Alberth> not your change I dislike, the window itself just seems weird compared to others
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19:54:50 <Samu> hmm how do i manage hotkeys correctly?
19:55:23 <Samu> Hotkey('S', "settings", WID_AID_SETTINGS),
19:55:51 <Samu> or at least, moved to the other window
19:59:05 <Samu> i never bothered with hotkeys, must check how this works
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20:07:46 <supermop> how does andy feel about secret brio sprites for firs industries
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20:08:40 <supermop> so that when a certain economy is used in toyland climate, the steel mills etc look like beechwood blocks etc
20:12:56 <supermop> frosch123: i want to lay in that pile
20:14:42 <supermop> gruesome hand-truck accident?
20:15:50 <V453000> I might want to rename brix cause it isn't lego
20:17:07 <frosch123> name it something ending with "Craft" then
20:19:17 <Samu> STR_AI_CONFIG_HUMAN_PLAYER :Human Company - this string is no longer in use, what do I do?
20:19:39 <Samu> I no longer have a use for it
20:19:45 <frosch123> recycle the letters
20:20:31 <Samu> I'd delete the string, but i have problems then with lang files
20:20:42 <Samu> so... hmm i dunno what to do
20:21:22 <frosch123> because of other games with voxels
20:21:45 <frosch123> cubicles and stuff :)
20:22:05 <V453000> fuck minecraft in particular :>
20:22:08 <frosch123> we need 16x zoom in sprites, so you can see little yetis sitting in cubicles
20:23:17 * andythenorth thinks we need something
20:23:23 <andythenorth> maybe a break from openttd? o_O
20:26:31 * andythenorth was sick for a few days, gained some perspective :P
20:26:47 <Alkel_U3> .13 will surely take care of that naturaly
20:27:15 <Alkel_U3> and if that's not enough, did you notice that new version of Dwarf Fortress is out?
20:30:17 <andythenorth> I have never played DF
20:30:25 <andythenorth> I was told to stay away from it
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20:32:03 <Alkel_U3> it's too late for me, tho
20:34:55 <Wormnest> Samu: removing settings and reload AI button will be very inconvenient for someone doing AI development
20:35:10 <Wormnest> from the debug log I mean
20:35:51 <Wormnest> I use those buttons a lot when working on my AI, always having to open the other dialog would be a PITA
20:36:58 <Samu> I can leave them on both windowses then
20:37:53 <Wormnest> In fact I even think the forum link should be there too to make it easier to report a bug
20:38:39 <Wormnest> Now when an AI crashes you see a link at the bottom report the bug here but you can´t click that link
20:39:23 <Samu> that's a good idea, I had thought of something similar
20:41:34 <Samu> having two windows doing the same as the other is a bit complicated, I'd like to have both useful
20:43:30 <Wormnest> That´s certainly true
20:43:31 <Samu> there are some issues with the settings button with the way I've changed the stuff on the config window
20:44:08 <Wormnest> Maybe a button that opens the config window from the debug window then?
20:45:00 <Samu> if I could relocate the settings all to one window, I'd actually prefer it to be on the config, because that window is also dealing with the possibility of 2 scripts in the same slot
20:45:01 <Wormnest> Still that would mean a lot of extra clicks and mouse movements to reload your ai
20:45:47 <Wormnest> But the debug window is not very useful for most users
20:45:50 <Samu> 2 configurations, not scripts
20:46:26 <Samu> there's only 1 instance running at a time, the config of that slot however, there's a "before" and a "now"
20:46:52 <Samu> clicking settings on the ai debug does create some confusion
20:46:58 <Wormnest> Why do you need a before
20:46:58 <supermop> whats new in antelope andythenorth ?
20:47:17 <Samu> you have change AI button enabled
20:47:39 <Samu> "now" settings is for the AI you just selected
20:47:51 <Samu> but the AI debug still shows the log of the AI that crashed
20:48:00 <Samu> and the settings are of the new "now" settings
20:48:11 <Samu> "reload ai" will load the new "now" settings ai
20:49:22 <Wormnest> That sounds like bugs that should be fixed but not the reason for two settings
20:49:45 <Wormnest> but I probably overlook some details you know better
20:50:26 <Samu> issue is that there's 2 windowses that access the same 1 AI settings window :(
20:51:06 <Samu> I thought it would be smart to get rid of that one on the debug, but... i guess not
20:51:53 <Wormnest> Well it certainly would be inconvenient for ai developing
20:57:27 <Samu> i don't know how to access the "before" settings
20:57:34 <Samu> it's something I had in mind too
20:58:11 <Samu> these "before" settings are also not saved in savegames
20:58:33 <andythenorth> supermop: nothing new since last week :)
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21:48:42 <andythenorth> maybe FIRS is ‘done'
21:51:49 <andythenorth> CHIPS is a few hours from ‘done’
21:51:58 <andythenorth> Road Hog is a week from ‘done’
21:57:33 <Samu> settings and reload are back
21:58:46 <Samu> i have thought of hiding them unless gui.ai_developer_tools == true
22:00:31 <supermop> andythenorth: done is good
22:00:44 <andythenorth> ‘done’ means I need to find a new hobby
22:00:47 <supermop> don't bog down is a project with no end in site
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22:00:49 <andythenorth> but it might be about time
22:01:08 <supermop> heqs does its job fine, looks good, etc
22:01:11 <Wormnest> Well the debug window is mostly used by ai/gs devs so I´m not sure if that is very useful
22:01:39 <supermop> firs 1 is a finish product,
22:01:53 <andythenorth> I’m not learning anything new anymore about newgrfs
22:01:57 <supermop> and if you like all the economies in firs 2, then that can be done too
22:02:05 <andythenorth> I’ve drawn all the pixels I ever want to, and then some more on top
22:03:00 <andythenorth> learnt all I’m going to learn about this kind of code
22:03:14 <andythenorth> made enough game design mistakes that I learnt something
22:06:09 <V453000> if I didn't use 3D, I wouldn't have made anything at all in the last couple years
22:06:22 <V453000> cause that's the only thing that I learn
22:09:10 <V453000> but I am still interested in making a nice set of trains in blender, and putting together a graphical replacement - because that deals with all kinds of isometric bullshit issues, which is good to practice
22:09:21 <V453000> exactly the kind of masochism that is in every sprite based game
22:09:31 <andythenorth> all the bullshit issues are just demoralising me these days :)
22:09:44 <andythenorth> every time I go look at a set, I find more alignment or length problems
22:10:01 <V453000> those are just technical trash
22:10:07 <V453000> and that's annoying indeed
22:10:10 <andythenorth> you mean the intrinsic problem of making dimetric look good?
22:10:15 <V453000> but I mean more like general projection problems
22:10:52 <V453000> add 141% scaling of some shit, add fake height of hills, add other shitty things like that
22:11:04 <V453000> for example the whole system of coasts and hills is it's own shit
22:11:20 <V453000> not even mentioning making tracks tile nicely, AND work
22:11:38 * andythenorth does not even want to think about it :P
22:11:50 <V453000> I might be weird, but I kind of do
22:11:52 <andythenorth> 2D game anyone? o_O
22:12:38 <Alberth> /me does some simple strategy game with hexagons
22:12:58 <Alkel_U3> completely 2D? like... Railroad Tycoon?
22:13:15 <andythenorth> more like Chuckie Egg I think :)
22:13:20 <V453000> /me does some simple industry game with totally insane projection and square grid :)
22:13:24 <andythenorth> Alberth: not enough things to do? o_O
22:13:52 <Alberth> it's not going fast :)
22:14:17 <Alberth> you can barely display a world
22:15:36 <Alberth> hmm, what about animations a la theme hospital, V ?
22:16:15 <andythenorth> pygame website is BAD :P
22:17:19 <andythenorth> wikipedia page is ok
22:17:41 <V453000> what are their animations specific in?
22:18:11 <Alberth> walking staff, patients
22:18:44 <Alkel_U3> I wanted to pick up on pysdl2 instead of pygame but my procrastination steered me towards Godot so far
22:19:09 <V453000> idontgetit Alkel_U3 , but meh :P
22:19:28 * andythenorth considers some kind of trolling game
22:19:34 <andythenorth> haven’t made one for years
22:19:37 <Alkel_U3> sorry, I'm tired, ca't think well :-)
22:19:56 <andythenorth> Flash is dead, and apparently Unity is a dangerous turkey as well
22:20:01 <Alkel_U3> which means I withdraw from the computer
22:20:28 <andythenorth> alledgly it’s a serious security risk
22:20:43 <andythenorth> [according to some page on the internet]
22:20:48 <V453000> like about every software nowadays? :P
22:21:34 <andythenorth> all I want to do is run code on the user’s machine :P
22:21:41 <andythenorth> where’s the problem?
22:21:55 * andythenorth misses the days of flash games with multi-million plays
22:23:07 <andythenorth> no point making a game if it’s hard to distribute
22:23:11 <V453000> just make a mobile game which has angrybirds, sugar, and boobs just to be sure
22:23:30 <V453000> all target audiences covered
22:23:37 <V453000> add trains in case of desperation
22:23:49 <andythenorth> nah, that would need 16+ rating
22:23:52 <andythenorth> need to get kids
22:24:11 <V453000> how do phones even know the age of user
22:26:47 <Alberth> apple, microsoft, whatever
22:29:02 * andythenorth wonders what new hobby to have
22:29:14 <Wolf01> ever tried with lego? XD
22:29:22 * andythenorth is selling lego at the moment
22:30:08 <andythenorth> I think I’ve built everything I wanted to ever :D
22:30:26 <V453000> now things are getting serious
22:30:31 <Wolf01> I just added 2 claas xerion and the porsche to the order list of a store for when they'll come out (the store at the exposition I'll attend should do 20% of discount)
22:31:12 <V453000> andythenorth: make openttd rendered grafix with me? :P
22:31:22 <Wolf01> it seem my brain doesn't give a fuck about the lack of space in my bedroom
22:31:51 <Samu> Wormnest: what is the size of the "break on: " text input box? I was thinking moving settings / reload ai down there, to the right of Continue button
22:31:54 <andythenorth> Wolf01: the ‘bad reviews’ on Eurobricks haven’t put you off the porsche? o_O
22:32:03 <andythenorth> sky has fallen in on a few people
22:32:09 <Samu> makes things easier for me to code, cus i'm still a noob
22:32:22 <andythenorth> “OMG the steering angle”
22:33:42 <Wolf01> I don't look at reviews, and usually I don't play with sets (the volvo front loader is the only one I really played with since I restarted to purchase lego sets)
22:34:08 <Wolf01> I buy sets because parts or because they look good
22:34:12 <supermop> andythenorth: gardening?
22:34:33 <Samu> looks too small, i might Resize buttons a bit
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22:35:32 <andythenorth> supermop: gardening surprised me, it’s quite fun, never thought I’d enjoy it
22:35:53 <andythenorth> but can’t be arsed this year, too many snails, and going away too much when it’s hot, plants need watered
22:36:39 <Wormnest> Samu: but why move them to the bottom
22:37:10 <Samu> to add them to the same group that enables/disables that last toolbar
22:37:18 <Samu> cus i dunno how else to do
22:38:22 <Samu> not too familiar with their placement
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22:39:24 <Wormnest> Can´t help you there not familiar with that at all
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22:40:06 <Samu> they are setting a minimum size of 100 pixels for width
22:40:07 <Wormnest> Personally I think they´re easier to access near the ai selection buttons
22:41:26 <Samu> ideally, i would let them stay where they are
22:41:47 <Samu> unless the ai.gui_developer_tools is enabled
22:42:05 <Samu> but i don't know how invisible widgets code works
22:42:49 <Samu> so i figured i'd move them to the bottom
22:43:20 <Samu> avoids me to learn how those invisible widgets work, cus the job is already done for that bottom toolbar
22:44:34 <Wormnest> Well not knowing how something works is not a good reason to change it
22:44:58 <supermop> andythenorth: going away is my favorite hobby
22:45:01 <Wormnest> It means you need to invest to learn how it works for a better solution
22:45:44 <andythenorth> supermop: I probably go less far than you :)
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22:57:07 <Samu> ok, gonna learn how this works
22:59:13 <Samu> at least I got something to do instead of staring at nothin g
23:27:12 <Samu> wow, it was easier than i thought
23:27:36 <Samu> it is done, except for the hotkey part
23:40:23 <Samu> done for the hotkey part too
23:41:34 <Samu> if (this->show_break_box) ShowAISettingsWindow(ai_debug_company);
23:41:42 <Samu> show_break_box needs another name
23:42:03 <Samu> show_ai_developer_tools perhaps
23:44:22 <Samu> bool show_ai_dev_tools; ///< Whether the break/debug and the settings/reload boxes are visible.
23:57:58 <Samu> woah, the last Polaris 10 leak is disappointing
continue to next day ⏵
