IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-05-03
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00:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> man, frosch read that request all wrong. he clearly asked to be a translator for the "insert" language.
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07:01:25 <Flygon> :D I wish I could increase the loan cap
07:01:42 <Flygon> IRL, I would be able to convice a bank to give more money for expasion :D
07:38:18 *** Clockworker__ is now known as Clockworker
07:59:18 <Alkel_U3> Makes me miss the good old RRT 2 economy
08:38:26 <Alkel_U3> in railroad tycoon your company has a financial rating and you can issue bonds as long as the rating is at least B (but which hurts the rating), or issue more stock (which makes your stock a little more worthless).
08:39:02 <Flygon> Yeah, that'd be a nice feature :D
08:39:08 <Alkel_U3> the series also separates player's money from the company's
08:40:25 <Flygon> (btw, this 4k*4k Hokkaido scenario is really good)
08:54:46 <peter1138> 4k*4k is never good
08:55:42 <V453000> this battle is unwinnable peter1138
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09:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i found the "economy" always the worst part of RRT
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11:06:17 <Leanden> andythenorth: planetmaker: are either of you on?
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11:31:50 <Leanden> anyone can help me with make?
11:31:58 <Leanden> make[1]: Nothing to be done for `BRTrains.grf'. make[1]: Nothing to be done for `docs/readme.txt'. make[1]: Nothing to be done for `docs/license.txt'. make[1]: Nothing to be done for `docs/changelog.txt'.
11:32:08 <Leanden> when i try to compile my GRF
11:34:49 <V453000> there is nothing to be done about that Leanden
11:35:12 <Leanden> so how do i get my GRF to compile then :D
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11:37:49 <Leanden> Help me obi V453000 kenobi, you're my only hope
11:38:01 <V453000> your only hope has no clue
11:38:23 <V453000> idk, I got many errors but not this
11:39:03 <V453000> I'm sure andy or pm will help you there, just be patient :) andy will come proceed the search for cat sooner or later
11:39:32 <V453000> did you try to check how makefiles on the devzone work?
11:42:29 <Leanden> im using makefiles from the devzone
11:42:32 <Leanden> thats the annoying thing
11:42:51 <Leanden> I took one from SBB set and change the IDs to my set
11:43:07 <Leanden> put all my code etc. in the same file layout as that set and it still doesnt work :P
11:51:03 <V453000> yeah there is likely some wtf magic
11:51:31 <V453000> I personally never used makefile, someone did it for me, and locally I compile only with nmlc single-NML-file grfs
11:51:38 <V453000> NUTS has 60k lines of code in1 file, but eh :D
11:52:05 <Leanden> well if i could remember the gcc command to compile an nml file from pnml then i would do that :P
11:57:42 <Samu> i dont understand my router
11:57:55 <Leanden> gcc -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o BTtrains.nml BTtrains.pnml
11:58:51 <Samu> im trying to configure port forwarding since yesterday night without success
12:00:28 <Samu> localhost: I put 192.168.1.12
12:00:47 <Samu> protocol: I am uncertain here, it asks many stuff
12:02:04 <Samu> protocol: I picked TCP, then asks unique or interval
12:02:38 <Leanden> what is the port forwarding for?
12:02:42 <Leanden> what is the purpose of it?
12:03:27 <Samu> host a openttd sserver, from 3979 to 3987
12:04:43 <Samu> then i do the same for UDP
12:04:54 <Samu> and after that, there's one more thing to configure
12:07:02 <Samu> this is just for the router
12:07:10 <Samu> then there's windows firewall which is another headache
12:07:21 <peter1138> windows firewall is easy
12:08:16 <Samu> i don't think so, it's quite dumb sometimes
12:13:49 <Samu> still says "we are not receiving acknowledge from master server"
12:20:57 <Samu_> i bet it's windows firewall now
12:24:29 <Samu_> it was windows firewall being stuborn
12:24:45 <Samu_> but now i got this on DMZ host, i dont want DMZ host, brb
12:27:23 <Samu_> no longer working without dmz host
12:29:38 <Samu_> i hate these new routers with their super extra secure features that require a networking degree just to port forward
12:29:51 <Samu_> old routers were so much easier
12:32:57 <Samu_> this is not an internet cafe, omg windows firewall really sucks
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12:48:22 <Samu> i cannot advertise to master server
12:49:54 <Samu> Source Ports: Destination Ports:
12:50:28 <Samu> isn't it just 3979, why ask source or dest
13:06:16 <Xaroth|Work> It means you can open up one port, but point it to another internally
13:06:31 <Xaroth|Work> and really, it has been available on routers since the olden days
13:23:29 <Samu> 1) Local Host: 192.168.1.12, 2) Protocol: TCP: source ports: any range, destination ports: any range, 3) Forward to Port: Same as incoming port.
13:24:07 <Samu> if i change any range to 3979, it won't work
13:27:56 <Samu> TCP and UDP both set with any range
13:28:04 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
13:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i somehow don't think any of these answered the question
13:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i think the answer would have helped anyway :p
13:45:17 <V453000> I don't know why nobody banned Samu yet
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13:48:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i like to distinguish people between "unknowing" (they don't know something, and if you tell them, they know) and stupid (they don't know something, and if you tell them, they still don't know)
13:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i've only met very few stupid people, but the ones that stick around are really really annoying
13:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> because they drain community ressources without the chance of a long term benefit
13:57:24 <V453000> I actually managed to ban a couple of these people on our server Eddi|zuHause
13:57:39 <V453000> just for the sake of staying sane
14:01:52 <Ketsuban> I recall having a similar conversation with someone about how there are newbies (those who do not yet know the norms of a community, and will learn) and noobs (those who have no interest in ever learning community norms and will just irritate people forever).
14:02:38 <Wolf01> those are trolls, not noobs
14:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, those words are not right
14:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> "noob" is too often used as a derogatory term by arrogant people for the above definition to apply
14:07:25 <Ketsuban> The distinction between "noob" and "troll" was one of intention.
14:07:36 <Ketsuban> Trolls set out to annoy people; noobs just do because they're oblivious.
14:08:31 <Eddi|zuHause> a person who uses the word "noob" is likely to be one himself
14:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (well, technically that applies to "stupid" as well)
14:11:37 <V453000> I think that statement applies purely based on how do you define that word Eddi, if you imagine it is said by a person who is arrogant and calling others lesser, OR if you see it as objective definition of a hopeless troll-ish person who will never learn because they don't want to
14:12:50 <Wolf01> it's the same as what happened to "hacker", the word doesn't have a bad meaning but people started to use it to define the guys who do bad actions with IT stuff
14:13:21 <Wolf01> mainly because journalists didn't know (and still don't) the right terms
14:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> they performed a study on people who use "bad language" in LoL games, and compared their performance within the team, and usually the weakest person in the team used the "bad language"
14:14:21 <V453000> well yeah that's a fair point
14:14:36 <V453000> I'm not saying arrogant people calling stuff aren't that
14:14:50 <V453000> but if we are trying to objectively define what the word means, it shouldn't make us them :P
14:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but i still question whether the term "noob" ever objectively meant the above thing
14:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (before it slipped in the other usage)
14:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a bit like people nowadays justifying racial slurs by citing "but it originally meant <objective definition>"
14:17:42 <Wolf01> noob, as n00b, started when the l33t-speakers were too lazy to write newbie
14:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> even if that definition once was true, it isn't anymore, and thus the usage is invalidated
14:19:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that was probably around the same time that 1337 degraded into a kiddie-language
14:20:23 <Eddi|zuHause> (which again reinforces the point that "noob" is only used by people who are themselves "noob" [by above "original" definition])
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14:22:04 <Eddi|zuHause> we've had a conductorcat for quite a while now
14:24:24 <V453000> guess andy just didn't find out yet
14:25:54 <Wolf01> meh... I can't understand how to handle exceptions in async code :|
14:26:57 <Wolf01> specially with parallel threads
14:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you generally need to handle them in the thread that raised them
14:27:37 <Wolf01> I know, but or the entire thread exits, or the thread become synchronous
14:28:02 <Wolf01> I need to skip the threads which threw exception
14:28:14 <Wolf01> keeping the whole thing asynchronous
14:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know enough about your architecture to help you here
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14:38:55 <argoneus> good morning train friends
14:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "wait()" will obviously pause the thread that called it
14:49:57 <Samu> sorry for bothering you all, this router is much more complex than what I had before
14:49:58 <Wolf01> yes, I should "await continuation;"
14:50:42 <Wolf01> and since my "continuation" provides a result, I have "var result = await continuation;"
14:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about the semantics of that
14:51:04 <Wolf01> but now, it seem to be broken
14:51:55 <Wolf01> do you know the promises?
14:51:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you rather need a "if (continuation.finished) { do stuff with result } else { do nothing and try again later }"
14:53:15 <Wolf01> that's why they used synchronous code, "await" already does that without the need of doing the check
14:54:32 <Wolf01> it puts everything which follows the "await..." into a callback (at compiler time) and only runs it when the task has finished
14:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but "await" will still pause the thread it appears in
14:57:36 <Wolf01> no, it exits and continues the execution
14:57:57 <Wolf01> then when the task finishes, it executes the rest of the code
14:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, it exits to the calling function
14:58:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but that doesn't sound like you can return a result
14:59:33 <Wolf01> which has your result if it's completed
14:59:47 <Wolf01> in this case, since I "await" it, it's completed
14:59:58 <Wolf01> and I can use the result in the promise
15:00:23 <Wolf01> if you try to do that in a synchronous code, you will hang up everything :P
15:00:57 <Wolf01> maybe forever, not just for the execution of the task (which might not complete succesfully)
15:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> then i still don't know enough about what you're doing
15:02:21 <Wolf01> me too, I'm just studying it :P
15:02:40 <Wolf01> but I've done some asynchronous programming in javascript
15:11:34 <Samu> the complexitude of this router: 1 cable, 2 ethernets, 2 wireless access points, 2 bridges (WAN and LAN), 1 ethernet switch
15:14:40 <Samu> my isp forces 2 ethernets with this router and with just 1 cable,
15:15:46 <Samu> so it behaves as a free wifi spot
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15:25:12 <Wolf01> looks like I made it, the exception handling inside the task factory delegate
15:35:49 <peter1138> on error resume next
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15:37:37 <Wolf01> spaghetti code exception handling
15:43:36 <Wolf01> the very basic one it was like "on error goto label" ... code... "end function... label: msgbox("error, you stupid"): resume next"
15:46:50 <Wolf01> Ok, I learned something new, now it's factorio time
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16:40:10 <Wolf01> mmmh, I built a train, set all the orders and stuff... built it on the wrong rail, I had to build a wye to turn it :|
16:43:41 <frosch123> that's unrealistic, post a "crane truck" suggestion on the forums
16:57:01 <Samu> #opcodes before scripts are suspended= 250.000
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17:04:47 <Wolf01> V453000, the train pathfinding doesn't like loops
17:08:37 <Wolf01> if I drive the train manually the track is right, even the signals
17:10:18 <Samu> dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer - what is this?
17:10:43 <Wolf01> the nice thing is that it says "no path" even just outside the station
17:10:58 <Wolf01> other trains don't have any problem
17:11:01 <peter1138> it means the string was too long for the destination buffer
17:11:11 <Wolf01> but this is the only one single-headed
17:12:47 <Wolf01> meh... found the culprit, an old signal hidden by a tree in the next tile of the other signal... I can't wait for the 0.13
17:13:45 <Wolf01> instead of having 2-way I had 2-one way :|
17:18:19 <Alberth> don't compile with debug flags if you don't want them
17:19:02 <Samu> it's 1.6.0, i didn't compile it, i downloaded from openttd.org
17:22:38 <Samu> debuglevel misc=0, still says it
17:31:23 <_dp_> oh, mb I know what it is, in multiplayer lobby server_name + "(ipv6)" gives it sometimes
17:34:42 <Samu> the string is: fffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff
17:35:06 <Samu> ehm... is this an ipv6 address?
17:36:27 <Wolf01> looks like a gust of wind
17:38:50 <Samu> trying to follow back where it originates
17:40:44 <Samu> strecpy(c.text, (text != NULL) ? text : "", lastof(c.text));
17:41:04 <Samu> this is what triggers that message
17:41:51 <Samu> c.text = 1:83:84:15:1:0:ffffffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff:ffffffffffffffff:fffffffffffffff
17:42:14 <Samu> so, well, no idea what this means, but that's where it originates
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17:50:06 <Samu> cmd = 88 which is CMD_UPDATE_STORY_PAGE_ELEMENT
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18:41:28 <Samu> why do ppl create servers that are impossible to join in 30 seconds...
18:45:52 <Samu> i joined my server and it made the server crash
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18:56:29 <Samu> event viewer says faulty module ntdll.dll
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19:14:36 <Samu> i managed to reproduce the crash with visual studio open
19:14:39 <Samu> Unhandled exception at 0x00007FFA8D2E0B06 (ntdll.dll) in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation writing location 0x00000080CAC1FFF8.
19:15:03 <Samu> it says ntdll.exe is external code, can't view stack frame things
19:19:15 <Samu> ntdll.pdb - Source Not Available
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19:23:01 <Alberth> it looks like the nt file system thingie, which of course has no source code
19:24:10 <andythenorth> the xkcd for ‘yak shaving’ isn’t quite what I’m looking for :P
19:24:22 <andythenorth> I wanted a cartoon for “starting a new game of ottd"
19:31:09 <Samu> > ntdll.dll!RtlpLowFragHeapFree () Unknown
19:31:18 <Samu> this is where it crashes
19:31:57 <frosch123> when a truck crashes into your house, your house is not the problem
19:32:22 <frosch123> rather look where the truck came from
19:33:57 <glx> ntdll is a windows library
19:35:00 <Samu> if (!HeapFree(select_heap(block), 0, block))
19:35:13 <Samu> this is whhere it would return
19:35:16 <glx> you can't do anything about it
19:35:38 <Samu> didn't return, just crashed on the ntdll.dll
19:43:19 <Alkel_U3> I recall seeing something similar in czech
19:44:44 * andythenorth swallows a horse
19:45:15 <andythenorth> to start my openttd game, I need to (1) patch FIRS (done), (2) patch CHIPS, (3) patch OpenTTD :P
19:45:34 <frosch123> there is an incredible boring but somehow popular book about a snake swallowing an elephant
19:46:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: that is all fine as long as you do not have to patch patch
19:46:24 <andythenorth> sometimes it also involves rebuilding all the deps in my OS :P
19:46:28 <andythenorth> although that is less common
19:54:45 <andythenorth> this just so I can play a test game on Iron Horse Antelope, which will result in more work
19:55:35 <andythenorth> amused irony probably fails to come across well in irc
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19:56:22 <frosch123> try on forums instead? :p
19:57:56 <andythenorth> unrelated, can we declare OpenTTD 2.0, and break a load of backwards compatibility?
19:58:05 <andythenorth> there’s no good reason, but it might be fun
20:00:57 <frosch123> wait 4 years for it
20:01:06 <Wolf01> "kitten hungry is the free app for today"
20:01:09 <frosch123> i like the easy method to derive the release date from the version
20:01:32 <andythenorth> we could give releases subtitles
20:01:38 <andythenorth> “breaks everything edition”
20:02:00 <andythenorth> “spurious new features edition"
20:02:13 <andythenorth> “all climates are now toyland edition”
20:05:16 <Samu> glx: how do i create a dump when msvc breaks on some error?
20:06:27 <Samu> or, how do i upload this crash
20:06:37 <Samu> because openttd doesn't create the crash files
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20:19:52 * andythenorth looks for Tropic landscape patch
20:37:30 <Wolf01> meh, biters nest in starting area :|
20:44:55 <andythenorth> is biters a newgrf? o_O
20:46:00 <Alkel_U3> biters in NUTS as a new engine class? :-)
20:47:05 <glx> Samu: this crash is not in openttd
20:48:27 <andythenorth> because Busy Bee said so
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21:13:49 <Samu> openttd is trying to delete something from memory but then ntdll crashes with access violation and points to RtlpLowFragHeapFree()
21:13:51 <Samu> being the function that errors
21:14:21 <Samu> it seems to be some AI that causes the error
21:15:49 <Samu> some AI is working with massive numbers of arrays
21:16:10 <Samu> dont know what's that, but it's repeatedly creating, deleting, creating, deleteing
21:16:18 <Samu> one of them triggered a crash
21:17:49 <Samu> i have no idea which AI is doing this, I loaded 15 AIs + GS
21:18:49 <Samu> they append stuff to network commands?
21:26:27 <Samu> it crashed again, now the error was triggered from somewhere else
21:30:34 <Samu> i was joining the server with a client
21:30:43 <Samu> openttd was executing a loop
21:30:45 <Samu> void WriteLoop(byte *p, size_t len, lzma_action action)
21:31:21 <Samu> lzma code sent something about freeing memory to ntdll.dll and ntdll.dll crashed
21:31:38 <Samu> symptoms are a bit similar, access violation
21:35:40 <Samu> > ntdll.dll!RtlpHeapTrkInterceptor () Unknown
21:45:13 <Samu> isn't lzma code open? why can't i access it? :\
21:48:35 <Wolf01> aren't you serious, you are?
21:49:40 <Samu> didn't let me explore inside lzma
21:49:56 <Wolf01> there is a little difference between source code and compiled library
21:53:58 <Samu> openttd writeloop > lzma optimized encode fast > ntdll rtlheaptrkinterceptor -> crashes here
21:55:24 <Samu> memory management issues, i guess
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