IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-05-04
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12:17:11 <argoneus> good morning train friends~
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13:25:42 <Samu> i'm having trouble removing the remnants of a vertical scrollbar
13:26:45 <Samu> the compiler complains about game_window.hpp.sq
13:27:04 <Samu> there is awarning in there saying this file is auto-generated
13:27:28 <Samu> but I removed a line there regarding to the vertical scrollbar, and now it compiles
13:27:31 <Samu> did I do something wrong?
13:43:56 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2039 'WID_AIC_SCROLLBAR': is not a member of 'ScriptWindow' (compiling source file ..\src\game\game_instance.cpp) openttd d:\openttd\trunk\src\script\api\game\game_window.hpp.sq 179
13:53:54 <Samu> THIS FILE IS AUTO-GENERATED; PLEASE DO NOT ALTER MANUALLY
13:54:18 <Samu> what generates that file? I can't seem to track where it comes from
13:54:39 <Samu> it's under external dependencies
14:07:22 <Samu> If I can't alter that file manually, how do I solve this problem?
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15:13:21 <Wolf01> purchased "mini metro" looks interesting
15:19:32 <Alkel_U3> one can't download a car for a few bucks yet :-)
15:21:34 <Wolf01> btw, a neighbour had that car, I always asked myself what brand it was, then I figured out as soon as I started to understans british humour
15:23:20 <Wolf01> it's unusual to find british cars around here
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15:45:06 <Wolf01> ha! I lost, also there isn't the Tokyo metro :(
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15:50:49 <Samu> nobody answered my question yet, t.t
15:52:35 <supermop> i doubt it is something i could answer
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15:58:44 <supermop> i certainly don't know how to help with that
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16:03:09 <supermop> things I know about as relates to openttd:
16:03:26 <supermop> How to use the pencil tool in Photoshop,
16:03:58 <supermop> How to make make architectural renderings not suited to use as game sprites
16:04:32 <supermop> How to get away with 1) and 2) above in my down time at at work so I do not have to melt my 6 year old laptop
16:05:05 <Wolf01> samu: don't make the UI too big, people with small screens may not be able to see the entire window
16:05:19 <supermop> How to be overly enthusiastic about adding Monorails as a somehow meaningful yet realistic thing in game
16:05:31 <supermop> but Not How to code said monorails
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16:07:13 <Samu> the window fits in 640x480
16:07:21 <supermop> How to get too excepted about urban rapid transit and desire to turn my games into some kind of pet metabolist city
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16:12:09 <Samu> what would be a minimum?
16:14:23 <Samu> NewGRF window is still larger
16:15:51 <Alberth> 640x480 is pretty close to minimum
16:16:26 <Alberth> although mobiles sometimes have a smaller screen, I think
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16:22:50 <Samu> uhm, what about my other question?
16:28:34 <Alberth> I don't even know what the other question is, I don't read logs
16:29:06 <Alberth> computer components have become a lot less lighter, I think
16:29:53 <Samu> i'm removing code specific to vertical scrollbar
16:31:03 <Samu> i manually edited a file that is telling me not to manually edit
16:31:23 <Samu> if I don't edit it, what can I do?
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16:33:20 <Alberth> there is a generator program you run instead
16:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i guess the second picture's computer is like a million times more powerful
16:35:18 <Samu> game_window.hpp.sq line 179
16:35:35 <Samu> how do i generate this file?
16:36:05 <Alberth> I would guess the generator is in the scripts directory somewhere
16:36:28 <Alberth> not exactly sure where, I also always have to look for it
16:36:50 <Alberth> something that is executable :)
16:37:25 <Alberth> except windows hides that concept to the users
16:38:17 <_dp_> script/api/squirrel_export.sh
16:38:26 <_dp_> faced the same question yesterday, lol
16:38:36 <_dp_> took me 2 mins to google it though :p
16:46:03 <Samu> squirrel_export.as an executable?
16:47:26 <_dp_> it is, but don't ask me how to run it in windows
16:50:45 <Samu> google says to use bash or cygwin, whatever they are
16:52:55 <Alberth> .sh is usually a shell script
16:53:17 <Alberth> removing a line is probably fine, just go with that
16:54:18 <Alberth> the point of the warning that you don't start adding new code in it, as it will automagically disappear
16:54:45 <supermop> seems of the few servers that run firs online, all of them use 1.4.3 or 1.4.4
16:55:32 <Alberth> I tried firs 2 a few times, but the industry distances aren't working properly yet
16:56:22 <Alberth> it's very annoying to have 2 industries that you need to connect with literally 1 tile distance
16:57:57 <Alberth> you have no interest in adding stuff to trunk, so don't bother too much about it
16:58:57 <Samu> i manually edited it like that
16:59:15 <Samu> caption added, scrollbar removed :p
17:00:07 <Alberth> your copy of the source is not using the generator, as you are the only person using it
17:01:22 <Alberth> entire lines with the same layout will work fine
17:01:36 <Alberth> at worst, the lines will move when you generate the file
17:01:52 <Alberth> or line, even, as you added only one new entry
17:08:15 <Samu> if someone wants to apply my patch, will they have trouble?
17:08:24 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, I think that second picture computer is already at least 10k times more powerful than my first one
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17:10:22 <Wolf01> meh, I hate when you need a bookface account to enable some section of the games :|
17:13:27 <Samu> eh, so no one will use my patches, huhu :(
17:13:34 <Alberth> Samu: if they use the exact same revision, no
17:14:00 <Alberth> otherwise, things may change, and merging can be troublesome
17:15:00 <Samu> i see now why it matters to add the revision to the patch name
17:16:23 <Alberth> you can also write it in the post, but in the name has a smaller chance of getting lost
17:21:18 <Alberth> for extra fun, use the git hash, so people have absolutely no idea how old the patch is
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17:46:24 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 536870912
17:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2**(58/1.5)
17:46:40 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 4.36341478646e+11
17:46:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so "a million" doesn't even quite cut it
17:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you consider the size reduction, maybe
17:47:55 <Alberth> just the size reduction is sufficient :p
17:48:15 <Alberth> since that works in 3 dimensons
17:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> not really, computers are essentially 2-dimensional
17:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you have some layering and stuff, but that doesn't really matter
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17:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so the original is like 3x5m and the new one is like 3x5cm [simplified], so that's about a factor of 100x100
17:50:31 <Alberth> maybe it was an analogue computer :)
17:51:04 <Alberth> right, not enough thus
17:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2**(58/1.5)/100**2
17:51:28 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 43634147.8646
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17:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't look right
17:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (2**(58/1.5))/(100**2)
17:51:57 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 43634147.8646
17:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (2**(58/2))/(100**2)
17:52:09 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 53687.0912
17:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so somewhere between 50.000 and 40.000.000 ;)
17:52:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that basically works out to 1.000.000 :p
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17:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> wolfram says the geometric mean is sqrt(2)*1.000.000
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18:45:00 <Samu> hey Alberth i noticed that there's some divergences between NewGRF settings window and AI config window
18:45:54 <Samu> usually how windows are closed, and such, the behaviours are different
18:45:57 <Alberth> I am not surprised, two different authors
18:46:22 <Alberth> I must say, I don't like the AI config window at all
18:46:50 <Alberth> buttons at unexpected places
18:47:28 <Samu> if i have a License window open and I close the NewGRF window settings, it also closes the License window, this doesn't happen in the case of AI config
18:47:38 <Samu> it lets the License window open
18:49:05 <Alberth> windows are very not-the-same in general :p
18:49:54 <Alberth> I think we have 2 or 3 different styles of widgets
18:50:14 <Alberth> and I'd be surprised if colours of windows are consistent
18:51:18 <Samu> the License window is the same for both NewGRF and AIConfig, it seems
18:51:29 <Samu> but both handle it differently
18:52:55 <glx> compare the close handlers
18:53:18 <V453000> glad you approve supermop
18:53:33 <Samu> oh gosh, i crashed NewGRF, didn't even touch any of its code
18:53:39 <Nijske> hi guys i have a question
18:54:20 <glx> and if someone can help it will
18:54:40 <Nijske> euhm how i can say iet in the english
18:55:12 <Nijske> i wont new company in the game whitch grf i must download ?
18:55:33 <Samu> crash also present in 1.6.0, eum, im sorry, i notice i'm too quick at crashing openttd :(
18:56:06 <Alberth> you should download an AI instead
18:56:16 <Alberth> it's a computer competitor
18:56:31 <Alberth> it starts its own company against you
18:56:57 <Nijske> yes but you can download new company ?
18:58:21 <Alberth> you download a new player that starts a company
18:58:33 <Alberth> or do you want to start a new game?
18:59:20 <Nijske> yes whit more factory i mean
18:59:40 <Nijske> normaly you can download new grf for that
19:00:09 <Alberth> no problem, text medium is difficult to understand
19:00:28 <Nijske> my english is not verry good but i do my best :)
19:00:28 <Alberth> so you want different industries?
19:00:53 <Alberth> a newgrf will work indeed
19:01:10 <Alberth> there is ECS if you like stockpiling
19:01:27 <Alberth> FIRS for a lot of diversity
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19:01:40 <Alberth> and YETI for awesome graphics
19:02:02 <Nijske> what do you think is the best ?
19:02:21 <Alberth> there is also PBI (pikkas basic industries), but never tried that
19:02:33 <glx> don't forget you'll need new vehicles too, else you won't be able to transport cargos
19:02:38 <V453000> YETI mainly has great production mechanisms, and now real dependence on towns :P
19:02:51 <Alberth> do you want 32bpp sprites?
19:02:52 <V453000> the graphics are a nice face but under the hood is the real treasure
19:03:12 <Alberth> FIRS is all 8bpp, like the original game
19:03:45 <Nijske> its not easy i think :p
19:04:00 <Alberth> but you can also try FIRS and YETI both (*not* at the same time)
19:04:09 <Alberth> see which one you like best
19:04:32 <Alberth> problem is you have to play more openttd :)
19:05:03 <Samu> Ok, the crash is similar in nature to the others I've already reported. Basically, it didn't close the License window that I opened when I removed a NewGRF from the Active list of NewGRFs. Do I really have to report it?
19:05:27 <Samu> it was trying to display a license for a null
19:05:32 <Nijske> thanks for the help :)
19:05:55 <Alberth> as glx said, you also need to use a different train and truck set
19:06:15 <Alberth> default trains and truck do not work
19:09:56 <Samu> show I create a new report, or append it to the same report?
19:10:17 <Alberth> make a note in the existing report, imho
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19:40:41 <Alberth> seems fine to me, thanks
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20:10:40 <andythenorth> just saw it on the wall
20:10:47 <andythenorth> not mine, the neighbours'
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20:17:56 <andythenorth> forums iz FIRS today
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20:35:26 <Samu> it's a bit complicated to manage a window which can have 2 "parents"
20:36:41 <Samu> it's entirely my fault here, I wanted to do this
20:37:05 <Samu> I wanted the AI Settings to be accessed from either AI debug or AI config
20:49:42 <Samu> ugly, the slots really have to be identified in the window title
20:50:13 <Samu> i can move slots up and down with select AI window and configure window both open
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20:50:53 <Samu> i'm surprised the parameters don't get confused and are still applied to the correct slot and correct configuration
20:53:09 <Samu> either this, or a complete re-design of AI Config and all related windows it spans
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22:17:23 <Samu> second image is photoshop
22:18:20 <Samu> ops, not entirely like that
22:19:06 <Samu> but ya, a way to identify an AI that started as random, while in-game
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22:19:51 <Samu> and list Companies 1 - 15
22:20:41 <Samu> any tips how to make this?
22:22:18 <Samu> i can't figure how to "build" a string made of 3 strings
22:24:50 <andythenorth> is there a substring system?
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22:38:57 <Samu> I think so, but i can't quite get the whole picture
22:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> substring of what?
22:47:29 <andythenorth> similar to newgrf
22:48:38 <andythenorth> text stack or similar
22:54:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the game has a textstack, on which the newgrf-textstack is based
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22:54:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming GS can use that as well
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