IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-04-27
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00:00:10 <supermop> not that I am suggesting those particular guys committed any war crimes, just that most soldiers who would find themselves in ambiguous combat situations are not the type who book vacations to North Korea for fun
00:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: what kind of command system are you thinking of?
00:10:33 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, system itself is fine (command.cpp I mean), just needs more flexibility
00:11:19 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, right now command set is such that it basically supports only bare minimum of what is required by gameplay and nothing else
00:12:10 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, so even slightly changing to gameplay is virtually impossible
00:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: that stil leaves me with absolutely no clue what kind of change you're thinking about
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00:15:05 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, hah, well, from usage standpoint it's basically allowing gs to do more stuff))
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00:15:38 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: but the command system is designed for the user doing stuff
00:15:58 <_dp_> for example clearing land (as deity), placing objects/buildings etc...
00:16:16 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yy, that's why server can't do anything
00:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: well, if you have a specific thing in mind, open a request. doesn't need a change to the "system" at all.
00:17:03 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: read the existing requests :p
00:17:14 <_dp_> system itself is fine, it just lacks functionality
00:17:39 <_dp_> also does it make sense to make patches just for commands, without gs interface?
00:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think a command will be accepted if there is no way to invoke it
00:18:07 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it all comes down to ottd running the gamestate on every client
00:18:31 <frosch123> clients do not believe the server anything, but check what it sends them
00:18:57 <frosch123> so you cannot add new stuff in the server without preparing the clients for it
00:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so add a flag to server commands "this is a server command, execute it also if the client did not send it"?
00:19:55 <frosch123> like: you cannot allow a company to execute a command without sufficient funds
00:20:23 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you can answer every simple example with a simple answer
00:20:38 <frosch123> also you are assuming anyone except dp is interested in competive gaming
00:21:32 <_dp_> frosch123, well, there is also btpro and n-ice ;)
00:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno... the luukland stuff was fairly popular, i suppse
00:21:55 <frosch123> see, that's why i encourage forking ottd :)
00:22:07 <frosch123> you cannot fit all thoe completely different things into one game
00:22:31 <_dp_> forking is kind of splitting community
00:22:38 <frosch123> _dp_: and all three are neglible compared to the chinese, right?' :p
00:23:52 <_dp_> actually, if you look on average stats they aren't that noticable
00:24:20 <supermop> do all new players to the game use zbase?
00:24:36 <_dp_> like yeah, they play 150 at once but only once a week for 3 hours
00:25:15 <supermop> seems like whenever a new person appears in the fora asking about signalling etc, they have zbase
00:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you're having a sample bias there...
00:26:02 <supermop> and when they ask for grf suggestions, they then complain that the 8bpp grfs they have downloaded look bizarre to them
00:26:05 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: of course
00:26:59 <supermop> but i wonder if we are biased is hanging around the fora and this channel for 8+ years, we have no idea what the experience of someone just starting to play this game this year would be?
00:31:11 <supermop> and every time i play online, (which is maybe twice a year) i never find many servers using significant newgrf rosters - maybe a old wagons new cargoes at most
00:32:12 <supermop> are typical players unaware or even ambivalent towards new grfs, so server hosts set games accordingly?
00:34:47 <_dp_> well, I never add grfs to servers that target new players
00:34:56 <supermop> do these players just want different 32bpp base sets? do they just want simple 32bpp new grfs? how many people out there play the game at least casually but are never active on the forum?
00:36:08 <frosch123> how many people who download the game start it even once? :p
00:37:32 <_dp_> how many people can solve a riddle to connect to muliplayer? :p
00:38:36 <supermop> what always bothered me was how much of a hassle it was for say my brother and i to just play a casual pick up game against each other if it turned out we both had a few free hours
00:39:30 <supermop> we never really figured out how to host a server,
00:39:56 <supermop> and depending on where he or I might be, we might not even be able to
00:42:01 <_dp_> hosting a server is pretty much same for every game so I won't blame openttd for that
00:42:25 <supermop> also the few people i converse with at any frequency about this game do not seem to be regularly playing multiplayer games as far as I can tell, so when ever I do play
00:42:40 <supermop> its on some ramdon empty server
01:17:21 <Samu> I'm kind of happy for today
01:18:32 <Samu> managed to verify nearly every step of my bools to make sure they were working as they're intended to
01:19:46 <Samu> tomorrow I'll think about flags or bitmasks or whatever
01:20:53 <Samu> i don't think i'm missing anything now
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08:40:22 <V453000> when downloading shit from bananas, does bananas automatically zip the thing and then unzip it at the destination, or are .grf files sent directly?
08:56:23 <Supercheese> pretty sure it's the bundles that are sent
08:56:40 <Supercheese> not sure whether the .tar is sent directly or if it's unzipped though
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09:07:42 <V453000> because the zip/tar should be smaller than the grf
09:08:13 <Supercheese> .zip should, dunno about raw .tar though
09:08:17 <Alberth> likely, but theoretically not always true
09:08:33 <Alberth> plain .tar does no compression at all
09:08:44 <Supercheese> yeah didn't think so
09:09:12 <Alberth> it originates from "tape archive", ie a format to serialize directory structure into a sequential format to stream to tape
09:09:58 <Alberth> and since tapes are not 100% reliable, you don't want compression, since any bit error breaks the entire archive then
09:10:26 <Alberth> also, extracting a single file becomes a PITA :)
09:10:55 <Alberth> and in those days, tapes were waaaaay bigger than disks, who cares about compression :p
10:28:06 <monsted> Alberth: IBM 3592 Gen5 is 10 TB, so they still have an edge on capacity :)
10:28:36 <monsted> Oracle T10000D is "only" 8.5 TB
10:29:41 <monsted> also, nearly all tapes are typically compressed, they just do it in the drive instead of in software.
10:30:32 <monsted> sauce: i built our second StorageTek Powderhorn tape library and ran storage and backup for years :)
10:31:51 <monsted> and now i have 11,000 tapes to destroy, with an impressive capacity of 40 GB each.
10:31:57 <Alberth> at those sizes, compression makes sense :)
10:32:11 <Alberth> they also add error detection and correct data, I guess
10:33:03 <monsted> yes, and magnetic tape is some of the best archival grade media available. shelf life for a written tape is usually somewhere in the 50 year region.
10:34:31 <Alberth> in proper conditioned rooms :)
10:34:57 <Alberth> but indeed, I pulled data from a tape that was around a decade old without problems at all
10:35:40 <Alberth> and those were simply stored in a box in a closet in my room
10:35:42 <monsted> they have pretty good environmental specs, as long as it's not too humid.
10:36:11 <Alberth> just keep magnets away from them :p
10:36:14 <monsted> our cooling failed one summer and when i went to check things out, i left wet fingerprints on everything i touched. humidity was 100% :(
10:38:56 <monsted> we're scrapping those libraries after 15 years of service. a bit of a sad day, especially because they've been replaced with much lower quality quantum libraries. these things were built using parts off boeing planes, because they stole a bunch of engineers from the 747 program.
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13:07:16 <Samu_> i'm doing a retard test
13:08:00 <Samu_> i'm hosting a server and then trying to join it with 255 local clients
13:08:24 <Samu_> is this a limitation of windows or openttd?
13:11:32 <Samu_> The server didn't answer the request
13:13:54 <Rubidium> there isn't a technical limit in openttd, but I'm finding a lot of evidence on the internet that different versions of Windows have different limits on concurrent incoming connections
13:26:49 <Samu> bah, not enough memory to start that many openttds
13:27:46 <Samu> i started a second server, while leaving the first one open with 64 clients in
13:28:13 <Samu> about 20 more clients were able to join the 2nd server
13:28:26 <Samu> then windows complains about mem
13:28:36 <Samu> and boom, black screen, had to restart
13:29:49 <Samu> server 1 was using 3979, server 2 was using 3980
13:30:30 <Samu> hmm so what can be concluded with these tests?
13:31:13 <Wolf01> that you should start on fixing windows' limits instead of ottd?
13:45:14 <Samu> why did it allow 64 + ~20
13:45:28 <Samu> meh, doesn't matter, 64 is a good number
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14:10:44 * andythenorth trying to figure out FIRS bug
14:10:53 <andythenorth> bauxite from oil rigs
14:11:53 <Alberth> ha, indeed, interesting bug
14:14:01 * andythenorth is getting bored of these :)
14:16:22 <Samu> how do i make flag bitmasks tables thing?
14:19:10 <Samu> want to use these flags instead of using bools
14:21:20 <Samu> i don't know how to ask :(
14:23:28 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm a nerd and made up my own train coding system to name my trains
14:24:36 <Alberth> quite likely you're not the first person doing that :)
14:25:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> It's just a simple 4-block thing separated by dashes
14:26:04 <Ethereal_Whisper> For example this one is MF-F-AR-1
14:26:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> 4th block is just the number of the train fulfilling that role
14:27:00 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdsibyans - i was told my bools and checks are ugly and that i could use flags bitmasks. I use them too often throughout the patch, and they are always checking the same things, repeatedly.
14:27:02 <Ethereal_Whisper> First block is station of origin (I just realized I messed up and it should be MFA), second is cargo type, third is destination
14:27:29 <Samu> and to simplify and make it readable, i needed some table
14:28:06 <Ethereal_Whisper> MFA-F-AR stands for "de mine de fer Angouleme, fer, a Acerie Rennes" (from Angouleme iron mine, iron, to Rennes steel mill)
14:29:57 <Alberth> If that works for you, great :)
14:29:58 <Alberth> I never bother giving names to things, I just look what their orders are
14:32:19 <Wolf01> I use default names too, until I find that when there are many they mean nothing and is difficult to find what I'm looking for, then I start to rename 300 things
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14:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i generally give names to groups rather than trains
14:33:29 <Eddi|zuHause> or especially trams
14:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "ATown - Line 1"
14:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> or "ATown-Btown"
14:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or "Cargo ATown-BTown"
14:37:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm also playing in French even though I'm a native English speaker. Lol
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14:43:46 <Wolf01> I play in english because I find the italian translations weird
14:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually play in german even if the translation is terrible
14:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "First we didn't put effort into releases, so long as the updater works. Then people shyed away from .0 releases, because they'll be unusable until the first hotfix. and now we're calling the initial release .1"
14:53:51 <andythenorth> sounds familiar :P
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16:08:59 <supermop> whgats going on this morning
16:10:15 <Samu> want to do bitmask flags and dont know how to start
16:10:27 <Ethereal_Whisper> Playing Toyland in French for fun
16:10:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> I tried an industry replacer NewGRF, the main popular one; it made my head hurt but it's very, very complex
16:13:28 <supermop> no idea what a bitmask flag is
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16:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "Value range propagation now assumes that the this pointer of C++ member functions is non-null. This eliminates common null pointer checks but also breaks some non-conforming code-bases (such as Qt-5, Chromium, KDevelop)." that sounds fun :p
16:17:17 <Alberth> euhm, this pointer is null? what nonsense is that?
16:19:28 <Samu> [13:38] <Wolf01> you could use flags instead of variables, declare an enum and then use if (GB(SLOT_EDITABLE, flags)) or "flags, SLOT_EDITABLE" (I don't remember it now) or even IF (flags & (SLOT_EDITABLE | SLOT_VALID_AI))
16:21:13 <Samu> how do i code flags, enums etc
16:21:59 <Alberth> openttd has lots of enums that define flags
16:35:35 <Ethereal_Whisper> Heh, I forgot how silly the French word for "cotton candy" is
16:35:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> "barbe a papa" which means "father's beard" literally
16:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i would have understood "grandpa's beard"
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16:51:12 <Alberth> Wolf already mentioned it
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17:02:15 <Samu> they are dealing with companies from 1-15 and owner deity
17:02:58 <Samu> and where would this enum be in the code? which file?
17:14:59 <planetmaker> Samu, for Player there's a special type already... 'tPlayer' or similar
17:32:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> Lol @ the map being so small I can't even profit
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18:11:35 <supermop> difficult to lose money with trams
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19:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to lose money with ANYTHING, unless you played with inflation and no progression
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19:08:24 <Alberth> running costs are the biggest factor :)
19:08:40 <Alberth> perhaps loan at the start
19:09:45 <supermop> how hard is it to write a gs starting from 0 programming understanding in any language?
19:10:32 <supermop> like is it fairly natural language-y and could do it in a couple days, or do i need to learn some basic stuff first?
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19:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> no. all programming languages are fairly logic-y, and you need to forget anything about natural languages
19:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> or rather everything
19:44:06 <Alberth> remembering your name and birthday would be useful :p
19:48:08 <Alberth> remembering your name and birthday?
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19:58:59 <Zuu_> supermop: It really depends on what GS you like to do. If all you want to do is to say hello to each company that joins, then MinimalGS is pretty much ready for you. Just change author, GS short name and its name.
20:01:53 <Zuu__> But otherwise, well GS is programming in a language that is not the most forgiving one. No real debugger available other than printing messages to the OpenTTD gs log.
20:02:10 <Zuu__> hehe... I blame the train internet.
20:07:01 <Zuu__> So if you like to learn programming a GS and start from 0, there are better languages/environments than OpenTTD+squirrel 2.0 to learn programming. But if GS is your motivation, it is not impossible to go this track. And motivation is something you'll need. :-)
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20:21:05 <Samu> what is the bit operator that makes 1 ^ 0 = 0
20:23:19 <supermop> Zuu__: just want a gs that bulldozes, buys land, and gifts land to player
20:24:05 <Samu> 0000 0010 & 0000 0011 = 0000 0010
20:24:37 <Alberth> that's not 10 (decimal) :)
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20:25:38 <Samu> it's the & operator I was looking for
20:25:56 <supermop> Zuu__: or just one that relocates demolished houses?
20:27:17 <Zuu__> A problem you'll have is to know what buildings that get destroyed.
20:27:21 <Samu> in decimal i'm doing 2 & 3 = 2
20:28:31 <Zuu__> And if you want to build exactly the same building at a different spot, that is also hard-ish (requires patching openttd)
20:29:37 <Zuu__> Basically a GS is a script in Squirrel 2.0 language. It can order OpenTTD to do things. And the link shows what commands/orders it can send to OpenTTD.
20:29:42 <supermop> Zuu__: could simply be build any 4 houses for any 4 destroyed
20:30:21 <Zuu__> GS can click on the 'fund new buildings' button and/or control growth rate.
20:30:34 <supermop> or note town population before bulldozing, then afterwards try to build new houses to match the old population
20:31:24 <Zuu__> Is the GS the one bulldozing or is it others that bulldoze?
20:32:15 <Zuu__> That makes things a lot easier :-)
20:32:53 <Samu> I have this so far SCRIPTSLOT_AI_STARTED = 2, SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED = 3
20:32:56 <Zuu__> Or you would need to monitor map to see when building disappears which isn't doable for script performance reasons.
20:33:13 <Samu> if i want to retrieve a script that started regardless if it's AI or GS, what is the operator that I use?
20:36:40 <Samu> SCRIPTSLOT_SCRIPT_STARTED = SCRIPTSLOT_AI_STARTED & SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED
20:37:01 <Samu> SCRIPTSLOT_SCRIPT_ = SCRIPTSLOT_AI_STARTED | SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED
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20:37:48 <supermop> are reverse subsidies possible?
20:38:36 <supermop> say, for the the next 10 years all deliveries to x pay 1/2 rate?
20:40:05 <Alberth> supermop: you don't have access to the precise amount of payment
20:40:32 <Alberth> reward bee assigns a fixed amount of money on a completed goal
20:42:42 <Samu> this isn't even math, but it's so similar
20:44:21 <Samu> here's what I have in mind, 0 - slot is orange, 1 - slot is silver, 2 and 3 - slot is either green or red
20:44:45 <Samu> next i check if they have the script dead or not dead
20:44:52 <Samu> and they get their color
20:45:07 <andythenorth> supermop: could assign a penalty deduction for some routes
20:45:53 <Samu> dead is red, green is not dead
20:46:19 <Samu> but there can be combinations :( AI dead, GS dead, AI not dead, GS not dead
20:48:00 <supermop> thinking of a gs that simulates eminent domain sort of
20:49:17 <supermop> if you get a ways along in game and some unserved town has gotten (or started out as) fairly large/sprawling
20:49:50 <supermop> it is a pain to carve even a little bit into that town to build a station
20:50:29 <andythenorth> had that in my last game
20:50:33 <andythenorth> station walking :P
20:50:39 <supermop> and big towns look odd left neglected or with stations too far out of town
20:51:38 <supermop> but could be fun for that desperate for service town to 'give' a little corridor of right of way or easement to a company
20:53:11 <supermop> but maybe the company in question receiving this boon pays for it either with royalty on their revenues in that town, or by up front lump sum
20:53:23 <supermop> public-private partnerships and all that
20:54:29 <supermop> other option is an AI that does the dirty work then sells itself to a player
21:00:41 <Alberth> doesn't make a lot of difference in terms of code that you write, I think
21:01:33 <Alberth> \ | / - \ | / - \ | / !
21:02:26 <Alberth> rotating | doesn't look good :(
21:02:42 <Samu> eh, i'm not entirely sure of what I'm doing
21:03:30 <Alberth> glad you notice it :)
21:05:49 <Samu> there's something wrong with this
21:07:13 <Alberth> generally you start with naming the individual bits, and then composing them
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21:08:24 <Alberth> SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED is not a bit
21:08:48 <Alberth> also abbreviate SCRIPTSLOT to just SST
21:09:06 <Alberth> any any other 2 or 3 letters
21:11:23 <Samu> how can i distinguish a GS from the other 3?
21:13:12 <Alberth> checking it's not one of the others?
22:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you don't carve out stuff of the town. you build the station at the outskirts and provide a tram/bus service into the city
22:04:30 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: thats one way to do it, and the way most favoured by the game as is
22:08:07 <andythenorth> only with cdist mind
22:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the other way is to just attach bus stops to the station to increase coverage area
22:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if you also attach an airport, you need fewer bus stops to cover the whole town :p
22:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (as each bus stop will take on the coverage area of the train station/airport if it's attached)
22:10:22 <andythenorth> stations are bizarre :)
22:11:10 <frosch123> [22:03] <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you don't carve out stuff of the town. you build the station at the outskirts and provide a tram/bus service into the city <- have you been to stuttgart?
22:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i know of :p
22:11:46 <supermop> still think it would be fun to have provisions for more central metro or commuter lines at times without an agonizing multi-decade piecemeal buying process
22:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but in the later stages of the game you can easily do that, as service through busses will quickly replenish your town reputation
22:12:47 <supermop> in a way that has some kind of game mechanism beyond cheat/bribe/cut and replant acres of forests
22:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the tree cheat could easily be disabled: disallow cutting trees if reputation < x
22:13:59 <supermop> something like "town desperate for better train service offers you an easement direct to some neighborhood"
22:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> where x is larger than the reputation needed to allow building a station/bus stop
22:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: that could be useful, if in return there is a penalty if you fail to offer the service
22:14:39 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: you may end up with many villages you can never repent to then
22:14:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: building a station likely involves cutting trees
22:14:48 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: exactly
22:15:09 <supermop> trade offs in some some manner of incentives/penalties provided by GS
22:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, it should be combined with other measures, like preventing the whole map be covered with trees
22:16:44 <frosch123> ah, i guess it needs a statemachine for growing trees
22:16:45 <supermop> we give you this prime station location, but in return we want a minimum of x amount of service, or we give you this land, but you must pay us x lump sum, or y per year over 10 years, or z percent of revenues in our town
22:17:54 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: there is also the problem that much of the map isn't owned by any entity so, you end up with a region full of wilderness and towns fierce to protect it
22:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: no, there's a range where towns just don't care
22:18:38 <andythenorth> late-game demolish and build isn’t blocked by rating
22:18:42 <andythenorth> it’s blocked by roads
22:18:58 <andythenorth> physically impossible to build much without magic bulldozer cheat
22:19:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't see what you mean
22:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> never had the need for magic bulldozer
22:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and in the situations where i would have used it, it was about industries
22:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: do you mean roads built by AI?
22:20:20 <andythenorth> I mean town-owned roads
22:20:30 <supermop> but that's even more odd, that all the pristine forests that would be a great national park you may destroy with impunity, yet some suburban prairie that you yourself covered in non native trees is passionately guarded
22:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you can remove town roads with rating
22:21:01 <andythenorth> you can’t remove town roads if they’re connected at all sides
22:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that hasn't been true for like 10 years
22:21:25 <andythenorth> in this game I can :o
22:21:41 <andythenorth> wtf, when did that change? :o
22:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a setting: "allow removing more roads" or somesuch
22:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it was probably removed from gui by now
22:22:17 <andythenorth> no actually it still is true
22:22:29 <andythenorth> I think I just found some road from a dead AI the first time I tried
22:22:32 <andythenorth> or my own road :P
22:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just flip that setting
22:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> might have been called "extra dynamite" at some point
22:23:43 <andythenorth> well that’s interesting
22:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> extra_dynamite = true
22:24:11 <andythenorth> changes my approach to building in town
22:24:23 <supermop> its odd though, that no farmer cares that i tear out his crops if i pay him a little extra, but no one stops me building on land that is somehow owned by no one at the towns edge, just the city council gets bitter about it
22:24:42 <andythenorth> eh just game mechanic no? :)
22:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: if that's the only problem you have in this game... :p
22:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the farmer does care, that's why you pay exorbitant amounts of money for the land
22:25:44 <supermop> i think making a trade for a bit of land would be an interesting complement to that mechanic
22:26:15 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: maybe we should pay similarly for land the nearer it is to a town, or something important
22:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch for that...
22:27:13 <supermop> and towns or industries more wanting for service could depress land values around them to approximate a desire to negotiate with you
22:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: or you could write a land owning simulation :p
22:28:14 <supermop> but this is all more complex than what i envisioned
22:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause> then you negotiate with nobles and churches who together own 80% of the land
22:28:51 <SpComb^> pretend it's a state railway in a communist land with no private land ownership
22:28:52 <supermop> which was a subsidy GS, where the subsidy was a plot of land
22:29:21 <supermop> SpComb^: that's really the only way to make sense of the game
22:31:03 <andythenorth> what’s this fricking oil rig grf
22:31:20 * andythenorth bored of conflicting newgrf whackamole :|
22:32:25 <supermop> i often come across a certain problem, in that even when i set out to build a simple industrial network first, i find myself driven to build a passenger network serving every town my mineral line passes
22:33:34 <supermop> as if i dont build it first thing in game, those town will despise me for cutting through their trees, and then i can never establish a station their later to recover
22:33:41 <supermop> andythenorth: not your problem
22:34:16 <supermop> people add extra industry grfs at their own risk.discretion
22:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: just put a bus line in each town
22:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> two stops, one bus
22:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually put 5 stops and make two lines in an X shape, or so
22:37:13 <supermop> then every little village along my coal road grows into a city, and what business does a freight railroad have running a municipal transit district
22:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (and then put my station at one of the X ends)
22:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the reasons why i never have a decent freight network :p
22:38:19 <supermop> so every time i set out to try some arctic firs game , by the 5th years i'm too distracted running a regional commuter network
22:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but there should be a cheat that simply ignores town rating (lesser version of magic bulldozer)
22:39:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or add that as an option for town tolerance
22:41:08 <andythenorth> bus in every town
22:50:22 <supermop> well i still find myself with some 5,000 person city in a corner of the map completely neglected as no freight line had to run by it and its not worth the hassle to connect to my passenger network that has since consumed my time. the town trying to bribe me into servicing it would be interesting
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