IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-04-26
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00:54:54 <Samu> but still barely readabl
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00:58:25 <Samu> the problem is that I have to deal with all cases
00:59:26 <Samu> line 2 is the same as line 5 and the same as lines 8-14
01:00:35 <Samu> spend the entire day just for this line, and still I know it's not readable
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01:03:43 <Samu> i don't know how to split this and still make sense of it
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05:49:08 <Supercheese> some Factorio modding, re-watching some Star Trek
07:41:03 <DorpsGek> V453000: Rubidium was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 13 hours, 19 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Rubidium> .cfg instead of .ini?
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10:14:31 <Wolf01> you can click on the image to zoom
10:20:44 <peter1138> yes but it's been scaled down badly
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11:56:09 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm using a 19th century building style that hurts my head but I downloaded some NewGRF's to force it
11:58:01 <Alkel_U3> well, that is suboptimal
11:59:25 <Wolf01> uhm, too many signals in wrong safe waiting areas
12:00:46 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm copying this scenario's building style I was playing earlier just for the hell of it
12:00:53 <Ethereal_Whisper> I started in 1890 with a super slow old train set
12:01:03 <Ethereal_Whisper> My "goal" is to get everything up and running by 1925
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12:12:43 <Samu> [13:38] <Wolf01> you could use flags instead of variables, declare an enum and then use if (GB(SLOT_EDITABLE, flags)) or "flags, SLOT_EDITABLE" (I don't remember it now) or even IF (flags & (SLOT_EDITABLE | SLOT_VALID_AI))
12:12:57 <Samu> i'd like to do this one day
12:15:44 <Samu> i see flags would make things much easier, it's just that I rather have the code work correctly for now, before I venture further
12:17:45 <Samu> need to guide myself from the standpoint that my code works
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14:33:54 <Wolf01> when I'll understand how asynchronous things works it will be a good day
14:34:59 <V453000> shit A doesn't do that shit B does
14:35:21 <Wolf01> no, I didn't mean that
14:36:39 <Wolf01> so far I understood only how to not freeze the app while there is some long work to be done
14:37:39 <Wolf01> but I need something more: get stuff from shit B "while" it's doing it
14:38:28 <Wolf01> I tried with a list, but it seem that only returns values when it has finished to fill it
14:38:45 <Wolf01> maybe it's a wrong type of list
14:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what's difficult to understand? do_job(); while(!is_it_done_yet()) do_other_stuff(); check_results();
14:41:23 <Wolf01> nah, I need to check results while !is_it_done_yet()
14:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yield partial_results;
14:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (warning: terrible mix of concepts)
14:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> just make the is_it_done_yet function return the partial results
14:44:01 <Wolf01> I have a global list variable, I expect that while B is adding stuff I could look in the list to see what's there
14:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> wait... asynchronous access to global variables? terrible idea.
14:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> need all kinds of locks and mutexes to handle non-atomic accesses
14:46:40 <Wolf01> I know, but since I'm only reading it... the only one writing is B()
14:46:57 <Wolf01> it's like a news ticker, I don't even know when it will finish
14:47:06 <Wolf01> it might even don't finish at all
14:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but reading from an inconsistent state while B is writing you must also prevent
14:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so B must block reading, so it can write
14:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> then allow reading when it's finished writing
14:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and while A is reading, B must be blocked from starting writing
14:51:12 <peter1138> well there are lock-free structures that work
14:52:50 <Wolf01> I don't think I can have an inconsistent data in the list, an item there is or there isn't, there can't be half an item
14:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what kind of item you have
14:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause> items may be written byte-by-byte internally
14:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and when the number of items is updated for the list is also important
14:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause> this must all be defined in your thread model
14:55:01 <Wolf01> since I await B's job to be done, an item can't be in an inconsistent state
14:55:27 <Wolf01> the problem is why between B() and B() there is nothing in the list?
14:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that is totally contradicting your previous description
14:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (which may be part of your original problem of not understanding it)
14:57:10 <Wolf01> I expect that after the first call I have one item, but instead I get 2 items at the end
14:57:21 <Wolf01> like it's doing it synchronously
14:58:11 <Wolf01> this is simplified, I set up a task running for some seconds and adds an item every half second
14:58:38 <Wolf01> if I try to read the list I should find the items added so far... but no
14:59:11 <Wolf01> I can only get the items when all the task finish
14:59:36 <Wolf01> why does that if I'm calling B asynchronously?
15:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> could be all sorts of reasons
15:00:14 <Wolf01> and if the tasks are infinite, when I'm supposed to retrieve the data?
15:01:03 <peter1138> definitely sounds like you're doing it wrong
15:01:03 <Wolf01> in javascript looks so easy, just set up a recursive async call
15:03:02 <Wolf01> yes, I'm aware of that, but I don't figure out what I'm doing wrong
15:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: my guess is your other job writes to some internal buffer, instead of flushing it to the global variable
15:09:29 <Wolf01> uhm, it works, it seem it only was a timing problem
15:10:12 <Wolf01> waiting 5 seconds while doing 5 1-second tasks...
15:12:47 <Wolf01> clearly doing stuff with the interface and debugging stuff doesn't take the same time
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16:06:27 <Birko> Hi everyone. Is it any function to found out if is one railstation reachable from another by builded railways? My AI player can build big railway infrastructure and now I would like to know, what orders I can set to my trains. Thanks
16:07:43 <Wolf01> mmmh cookies, good idea supermop
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16:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Birko: generally, the pathfinder does this
16:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Birko: not sure if it's accessible from the AI, or if there at least exists a library mimicing it
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16:17:42 <Birko> Eddi|zuHause: Good idea, library is "Pathfinder.Rail.1" and I use it for many things. So it could be works, but im afraid it is impossible to handle with it one-way (semaphore) railways...
16:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> would be weird if it doesn't handle signals
16:18:45 <peter1138> a pathfinder should (be written to) cope with that
16:18:55 <peter1138> you'd just need to make sure that both directions are tested
16:21:37 <supermop> do AIs build networks now?
16:24:07 <supermop> hmm idea for a GS: eminent domain GS. to entice you to service an underserved city, GS makes subsidy type announcement, then demolishes and buys 2 tile wide corridor of town buildings, then gives the owned land to player
16:24:49 <supermop> maybe builds replacement houses for displaced people
16:25:30 <supermop> could also then claw back profits from that player in that town over next x years to pay for it?
16:26:58 <supermop> guessing it would be too complex for GS to build station and stump of track in a city then sell that to a player
16:28:43 <Birko> peter1138, Eddi|zuHause : I didnt know that I can handle more than find and build railway from array of tiles to another array of tiles with RailPathfinder. I study it only from this wiki https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:RailPathfinder . Where can I find more info about this RailPathfinder to handle and other things?
16:31:30 <Samu> I found another bug, related with the Parameters window not closing
16:32:03 <Samu> closing the window when selecting another script would fix many of these issues
16:33:35 <peter1138> Birko, sorry, no idea on specifics
16:34:33 <Samu> an open dropdown list remains open when i select another AI script for the same slot
16:34:50 <Samu> it lists the values of the previous script
16:36:05 <supermop> maybe this would be better as a AI that finds a town with disproportionate population:sevice level ratio, demolishes buildings, build a basic terminus in a city, or a through station based on some criteria, then intentionally bankrupts itself to get sold off?
16:45:11 <Samu> strange, it crashes on the debug, but not on the release
17:02:17 <supermop> watching videos of shinto weddings... think i may have bit off more than i can chew here
17:03:12 <supermop> even my in laws are going to be like "what the hell is going on" let alone my clueless family
17:08:44 <Samu> I don't understand. Why does it crash on the debug build, but not on the release build?
17:08:54 <Samu> I'm doing exactly the same thing
17:10:46 <Samu> weird, now it didn't crash on the debug build as well
17:11:08 <Samu> i followed the same steps
17:13:29 <Samu> oh well, in the end it doesn't matter if it crashes randomly or not, it wasn't even supposed to linger the dropdown list from the previous AI into the new AI.
17:22:26 <Samu> aha, release also crashes after all
17:22:39 <Samu> just managed to crash 1.6.0
17:29:17 <Samu> "Configure window didn't close." - this is the main problem
17:31:02 <Samu> instead of a scrollbar crashing openttd, it was a dropdown list from the previous script
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18:32:12 <Samu> why can't I use bools inside a switch/case?
18:32:35 <Samu> i had to put them before the switch
18:33:20 <Alberth> case ... : { bool b = ... ; .... ; break; }
18:33:33 <Alberth> b only exists between { and }
18:39:54 <Samu> visual studio does not like that: initialization of 'is_orange_slot_above' is skipped by 'case' label openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\ai\ai_gui.cpp 884
18:40:56 <Alberth> yes, you need curly brackets around variables in cases (also with normal labels, but you hardly use them)
18:41:33 <Alberth> or you must define them above the switch, so they exist for all switches, and beyond the switch statement
18:41:50 <Alberth> *exist for all cases, I means
18:41:56 <Samu> they have to exist for 2 cases only
18:42:07 <Samu> the other cases are arguing
18:42:32 <Alberth> it's either 1, with curly braces, or all, above the switch
18:43:37 <Samu> the other cases don't matter
18:45:13 <Samu> so, all? like I had before
18:45:24 <Samu> it will look ugly though
18:45:35 <Alberth> just the declaration is enough
18:46:03 <Alberth> bool is_orange_slot, is_red_slot, ... ;
18:46:28 <Alberth> make sure you give them a value before you use the value though, or you get garbage
18:46:46 <Alberth> perhaps your compiler will compain about not being initialized
18:47:17 <Alberth> you can either give them the real value then (but ugly, perhaps), or a dummy value, like "true" or "false" or so
18:55:55 <_dp_> I'd rather do a function, smth like is_red_or_orange(slot), vastly simplifies everything
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19:31:18 <Samu> ew... that invisible human player in slot 1 is annoying
19:32:03 <Samu> in the main menu, slot 1 is a human player that I want to disguise as not being there
19:40:05 <Samu> problem doesn't occur in scenario editor
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19:50:59 <Samu> IsValidID vs IsValidAiID
19:52:05 <Samu> IsValidID says it's true, there really is a company there in slot 1
19:52:56 <Samu> IsValidAiID says it's false, this fixed my issue
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20:30:19 <Samu> Alberth: how would you fix that bug I reported?
20:31:56 <Samu> im trying to find a way to fix it
20:32:53 <Samu> AI/GS Debug vs AI/GS Config act differently when switching from a slot to another
20:33:13 <Samu> maybe they should behave equal
20:34:43 <Samu> Debug seems less prone to these issues
20:34:59 <Samu> but it's also a bit more restrictive
20:36:45 <Wolf01> frosch, do you use at least the circuit network on factorio?
20:38:19 <frosch123> but i always think i am doing something wrong if i need it
20:39:36 <Wolf01> I was trying to make a hysteresis circuit to enable the inserters only below a threshold
20:39:53 <V453000> frosch123: who could possibly help me with musa? :(
20:40:18 <Wolf01> I did it with 2 comparators and one combinator, too big :/
20:40:20 <frosch123> Wolf01: i think it is because i play f like ottd
20:40:34 <frosch123> when i have too little stuff, i need to build more rails
20:40:41 <frosch123> not add balancing stuff
20:41:25 <Wolf01> that could be an option, a good one, if you have enough steel :P
20:42:26 <Wolf01> actually I have 6 electric furnaces for steel, I'm planning to double them when I'll move the entire advanced production stuff out of the main base
20:42:34 <frosch123> V453000: at least i can confirm that the problem is not on your end
20:42:42 <frosch123> i can also not upload a new version of sv
20:42:51 <frosch123> TrueBrain: can you please restart musad, it's definitely borked
20:42:54 <V453000> that I understand, but who can I poke?
20:43:15 <frosch123> V453000: well, there was also the option that it is only borked for your large files
20:43:30 <frosch123> or that only yeti is borked
20:45:40 <Samu> AI/GS Configuration does this: InvalidateWindowClassesData(WC_AI_SETTINGS);
20:45:48 <Samu> AI/GS Debug does this: DeleteWindowByClass(WC_AI_SETTINGS);
20:46:19 <Samu> debug window does not bug out
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20:48:12 <frosch123> no, both just say "timeout"
20:48:21 <frosch123> i guess the cia serves are overloaded
20:48:25 <V453000> but Errno is different?
20:48:25 <frosch123> and cannot respond in time
20:49:00 <Wolf01> frosch, do you think that a base which only processes iron and copper and outputs every kind of item possible for those 2 ores (steel, inserters, green circuits, gears...) is a good solution or it should only produce steel, gears, and circuits, and leave the next tier to another outpost?
20:49:08 <Alberth> Samu examining it carefully, finding the point where it's wrong, and fix it?
20:50:09 <frosch123> Wolf01: in my previous game i started to include the furnaces into the mining outposts
20:50:17 <frosch123> and ship the refined metal by train, instead of the ore
20:50:39 <frosch123> i may also shift it to steel
20:51:09 <Wolf01> I prefer to have a central smelting hub, mining outpost are like... not infinite
20:51:17 <frosch123> TrueBrain: works :)
20:51:21 <frosch123> V453000: now you can try
20:51:33 <Supercheese> you'd have to tear up your smelters along with the miners when the ore is depleted...
20:51:45 <Supercheese> best to have central smelting to avoid that IMO
20:52:13 <V453000> let's hope it finishes
20:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can put down the smelters at the new mining site, i suppose?
20:52:21 <Wolf01> actually I have a large 40 electric furnaces hub just for iron, and 20 for copper
20:52:48 <V453000> regarding F: I love using steel furnaces on the mining field to make it output the final thing
20:52:53 <V453000> I build shit by blueprints anyway
20:53:21 <Wolf01> I use blueprints too, they are so useful :)
20:53:24 <V453000> you can fit the steel furnaces within the "extra range" of the miners to maintain 100% coverage
20:53:44 <Supercheese> steel smelters? Then you'd have to ship coal to every outpost...
20:54:15 <Wolf01> that's why I use full electric everywhere
20:54:29 <Supercheese> eh, to each their own
20:54:30 <V453000> I ship laser turrets etc anyway
20:54:44 <V453000> rest of the train can be coal
20:55:15 <Samu> my idea of a fix was .... "just close the parameters window", it's kinda like what debug also do
20:55:24 <Wolf01> I don't use anymore coal as fuel
20:56:05 <Samu> my other idea was .... more difficult for me to fix
20:56:37 <Wolf01> my car runs on wood (just to use up that large stockpile I made clearing an entire forest) the rest uses solid fuel
20:56:45 <frosch123> oh, btw. i have no idea since when removed asembling plants leave that rubble on the floor :p
20:56:48 <Samu> which was keeping it open and re-supply it with the new variables
20:57:05 <V453000> omg just one facility to produce robots? :P
20:57:06 <frosch123> Wolf01: yes, i used wood for trains, but this time i got a pretty wood-free map
20:57:16 <frosch123> V453000: i hate robots
20:57:23 <frosch123> i only use logistics for player supply
20:57:25 <V453000> construction robots are nice
20:57:37 <frosch123> and i do not need more construction than i can wire up with belts
20:57:58 <frosch123> it's not like they are one-time use
20:58:33 <Wolf01> how can you keep that production with just 3 green circuits factories?
20:58:47 <Wolf01> I have 16 of them and 6 for red ones
20:58:59 <frosch123> Wolf01: why "keep"?
20:58:59 <V453000> it says I am Sylf but idk where that came from
20:59:03 <V453000> still, it's on bananas
20:59:07 <frosch123> all that stuff there is only for player supply
20:59:13 <frosch123> and construction robots
20:59:17 <frosch123> so, there is not much needed
20:59:34 <frosch123> the green circuits are only leftovers from the redcircuit production
20:59:46 <frosch123> the mass production is somewhere else
21:00:19 <Wolf01> mmh ok then, I have the research labs too, which are green/red/blue circuits hungry
21:00:21 <frosch123> Wolf01: oh, also, all chests you see have their size limited
21:00:53 <frosch123> i do not need 500 miners :p
21:02:29 <Wolf01> also, one thing I really hate, the raw stone patches are too small, I need to move too often to another place
21:03:13 <frosch123> Supercheese: yes, i ship coal to outposts
21:03:40 <frosch123> i always build mixed cargo trains with run on a circular line visiting many stops
21:03:47 <frosch123> some load coal, some unload coal
21:03:50 <V453000> yeah that stuff should be fixed in .13
21:04:20 <frosch123> also, rv almost take no damage anymore when bulldozing rocks
21:04:49 <frosch123> now you only have the small battle between the rock and the constructon robot
21:04:58 <Wolf01> rails, bricks, concrete, they use up a lot of stone and I feel like conquering the far west, laying one rail track like a snail :P
21:05:00 <frosch123> which cannot quite decide when it is done with repairing
21:05:22 <frosch123> Supercheese: and yes, electric smelters are as stupid as logistics robots
21:05:43 <Supercheese> unless you have massive solar, they are less efficient than steel smelters
21:05:49 <Supercheese> that much is true
21:06:12 <Wolf01> half of my map is covered with solar panels
21:06:27 <Supercheese> Well, then you can use electric smelters if you like ;)
21:06:35 <Wolf01> the other half is for batteries :P
21:07:03 <frosch123> Supercheese: last time i checked they were equivalent in power consumption
21:07:18 <Supercheese> frosch123: they are, but if you use steam engines boilers only have 50% efficiency
21:07:20 <frosch123> which i considered sad :)
21:07:37 <Wolf01> I still have the old steam engines power plants for backup purpose
21:07:50 <frosch123> hmm, is that written somewhere? maybe i missed that in my computation
21:08:16 <Supercheese> Coal -> elec -> elec smelter requires 2x as much coal as just Coal -> Steel smelter
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21:08:18 <frosch123> my main production always runs on steam
21:08:26 <frosch123> i only use solar panels in the offposts
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21:08:44 <frosch123> because solar panels are still nicer than long-distance electric wires
21:09:30 <Wolf01> heh, you must consider the used space, a steam engine uses what, 3x5? and produces 350KW, while a solar panel is 3x3 and produces 60KW
21:09:49 <frosch123> space is not a concern in my games
21:10:01 <frosch123> as said, i play it like ottd :p
21:10:19 <Wolf01> but in ottd you don't have infinite maps :P
21:10:41 <frosch123> anything bigger than 512x512 is infinite
21:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should add that? :P
21:10:48 <Wolf01> here you just obliterate a spitters colony and lay down a 2400 solar panels farm
21:10:59 <Supercheese> You don't have infinite maps, just zomghueg maps
21:15:25 <Wolf01> V, do you know if it will be possible to make again mods for conveyor belts, like the separators which were really useful in 0.11?
21:15:33 <TrueBrain> V453000: have you tried turning it off and on again
21:15:36 <TrueBrain> it always works, I guess :D
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21:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how dp infinite maps in factorio work? does it unload chunks that it thinks are inactive?
21:16:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it probably relies on noone putting a weight on the "a" key and go on vacation
21:17:09 <Supercheese> Factorio has active and inactive chunks
21:17:22 <Supercheese> you can even see them using the debug menu (F4)
21:19:37 <Wolf01> at least is not like Minecraft, one thing I hate about that is the inactive chunks don't grow things (trees, crops)... imagine it on factorio :P
21:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that depends on how you determine which chunks should be active
21:23:49 <Wolf01> another thing I don't understand is how the aliens expand
21:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow i just got the music from "peter and the wolf" as earworm...
21:24:27 <Wolf01> or better, the natives, since the player is the alien
21:24:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: who of them?
21:24:34 <Eddi|zuHause> something i haven't listened to in like 20 years
21:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's peter
21:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember how the wolf goes
21:25:28 <frosch123> or something like that
21:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean fagott?
21:25:39 <frosch123> hmm, no, it's some metal horn
21:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause> oboe is very high pitched
21:25:59 <frosch123> but, it's a slow alarm bell essentially
21:26:18 <Samu> what's the difference between InvalidateData() and InvalidateData(-1)
21:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so, after listening to the intro, it seems: bird-flute, duck-oboe, cat-clarinet, grandpa-fagott, wolf-horn, peter-violin
21:37:53 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow i doubt prokofjew knew of my existence :p
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22:03:54 <V453000> hm, so a 32bpp train set having 70 000 wagon sprites isn't a good idea you say?
22:08:52 <sim-al2> Might kill some older computers V :p
22:10:11 <V453000> to be precise I am getting 62720
22:10:35 <V453000> assuming 15kb per sprite, that comes up as 940 800 kb
22:10:59 <V453000> I might have a solution to reduce it 8 times
22:11:45 <frosch123> only spherical cars? :p
22:12:19 <V453000> basically articulating some of the necessary variety
22:18:41 <frosch123> anyway, how much mb do you need in a real game?
22:18:52 <frosch123> like you do not have all cargos in one game, only 32
22:19:07 <frosch123> you may also not have all vehicles in all generations at a time
22:20:34 <Wolf01> our nephews will ask "but the pc can run ottd?"
22:22:42 <V453000> there is 67 cargoes I could count from various sets
22:22:48 <frosch123> V453000: ottd only loads sprites into memory which are actually used
22:22:48 <V453000> ofc not available all at the same time, but still?
22:22:58 <V453000> still you have to download 1GB
22:23:17 <frosch123> isn't the compression better than that?
22:25:03 <V453000> well it might help a lot
22:25:29 <V453000> oh nvm my test grf has only 2 engines out of many
22:25:50 <V453000> I was wondering that 8MB->312KB is a big difference XD
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22:27:27 <V453000> is there any way to estimate the compression amount?
22:28:13 <frosch123> do one test vehicle?
22:28:45 <V453000> 16 sprites are 312KB at the moment
22:28:55 <V453000> each individual PNG has 15KB
22:29:30 <V453000> 15KB = 1 PNG before spritesheeting and stuff
22:30:03 <frosch123> 312kb seems to be a lot for 16 vehicle sprites
22:30:10 <frosch123> they are about 20kb uncompressed
22:30:21 <frosch123> so, it would mean basically no compression :p
22:30:25 <V453000> well I guess grf code is something?
22:30:41 <frosch123> problem with grf is that it compressed every sprite on its own
22:30:54 <frosch123> compressing big things is better than many small things
22:32:04 <Samu> time to post a new version, before I forget what I have done thus far
22:32:23 <V453000> I will try to get the articulation to work first
22:32:26 <V453000> let's see how that goes
22:36:30 <V453000> need to do some serious reconsiderations
22:36:53 <V453000> even if it saves 50% (which it won't), it's deep shit
22:37:47 <frosch123> how big is the grf, if you zip it?
22:38:39 <frosch123> then you sprites have a lot of randomness :p
22:39:28 <frosch123> so, if zipping the whole thing does only save 10$, there is no point in improving the grf format or similar
22:40:16 <V453000> well, I have wagons which have very specific functionality. I want to show that functionality in sprites, which means the x8 as there are 8 types of such functionalities
22:40:27 <frosch123> would you save sprites if ottd could draw multiple sprites per vehicle?
22:40:31 <V453000> my idea is to use articulated vehicles where 1 half is the functionality and 1 half is the actual wagon
22:40:52 <V453000> maybe even more due to cargoes
22:41:09 <frosch123> if it's not factor 50, it's not worth the effort :p
22:41:24 <V453000> well from 1GB to 120MB is a lot
22:41:48 <frosch123> 2 sprites per vehicle? or more?
22:42:06 <V453000> 2 would help insanely much
22:42:06 <frosch123> or vehicle + animation + cargo ?
22:42:11 <V453000> more would be just bonus
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22:43:18 <V453000> vehicle partA, vehicle partB, cargo in various loading stages, cargo in various graphics
22:44:26 <V453000> in general it would be AMAZING if wagons could consist of wagon + cargo
22:44:36 <V453000> would motivate so much to define more cargoes
22:44:50 <V453000> and any filesize save for 32bpp is heaven gift
22:45:02 <frosch123> also proper company colours :p
22:45:11 <frosch123> but cc are bad anyway
22:45:19 <frosch123> oh, and better rainbow slugs
22:45:32 <V453000> well yeah that would be an extra beautiful thing, but layered sprites would be just a whole new dimension
22:47:25 <V453000> is such a thing as vehicle layers within realm of possibility?
22:47:42 <V453000> I guess it worked for industries and stations eh :P
22:47:44 <frosch123> hardest is the drag-cursor :p
22:47:57 <frosch123> i.e. the one which does not even support articulated vehicles
22:48:10 <frosch123> currently you can only attach a single sprite to the mouse cursor
22:48:12 <V453000> can we define drag sprites?
22:48:26 <V453000> we can define depot sprites
22:48:30 <frosch123> nah, it should just draw the vehicle list sprite in aritculated
22:49:05 <V453000> list sprite = purchase menu sprite you mean? no
22:49:42 <frosch123> no, i mean like the vehicle is displayed in the depot and or in vehicle lists
22:49:52 <frosch123> i.e. multiple sprites
22:50:20 <V453000> yes, so if you have a switch vehicle_is_in_depot, you can define drag-sprites basically?
22:51:15 <frosch123> i do not want to hack around the mouse cursor thing
22:51:21 <frosch123> it should be done properly anyway
22:51:50 <V453000> switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_monolocal_depotted, vehicle_is_in_depot){ 1 : switch_monolocal_stopped; //TL0.5 doesnt exist 0 : switch_monolocal_enginesprite; }
22:52:03 <V453000> I am saying that it is solvable if someone defines a newgrf
22:52:11 <V453000> and wants to fix the dragging
22:52:25 <V453000> admittedly automatically dragging merged sprite would obviously be best :P but yeah
22:56:47 <V453000> I will have to go now, but let me just say tha this feature would be the most amazing thing I ever seen :P
22:57:27 <frosch123> it's likely easier than the mapgen preview
22:57:34 <frosch123> which is the other most-needed thing
22:58:43 <frosch123> but i need to ponder some days about the nfo magic
22:59:28 <V453000> I would greatly appreciate such a thing to happen
23:01:03 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: just check extra_callback_info1, not vehicle_is_in_depot
23:03:41 <Eddi|zuHause> 0x0? for anything drawn on the map, 0x1? for anything drawn in the gui, and 0x2? for anything drawn as preview (no vehicle vars available)
23:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> (i use this quite a lot with all the curve magic, which should only be done on the map)
23:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (so special magic for depot dragging was quite easy to add)
23:06:18 <frosch123> really? is that variable older than cets?
23:06:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure i wrote that
23:06:47 <frosch123> sometimes i forget how ancient some thing are :)=
23:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only been like 5(?) years :p
23:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing happened in the last 2 years anyway :p
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23:15:39 <_dp_> hm, just got a weird idea
23:16:01 <_dp_> make a server with real world map and only allow people to build in same region they are from (by ip)
23:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so i have a "19. Jul 2011 vehicle_gui_extra_callback_info.diff" but r23080 doesn't seem to be based on that patch
23:17:53 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by frosch :: r23080 /trunk/src (25 files in 2 dirs) (2011-11-01 17:51:47 +0100 )
23:17:54 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Feature: [NewGRF] Use variable 10 to enable vehicle GRFs to draw different sprites on the map and in various GUIs.
23:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you also didn't credit me for the idea :p
23:19:06 <frosch123> _dp_: well, most people live where lots of people are living
23:19:18 <frosch123> tracks better fit in places where noone is living
23:19:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i don't believe in "ideas" :)
23:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> like 90% of the worlds population live on the coast or near rivers
23:20:19 <frosch123> except for the roujin foundations
23:22:32 <_dp_> frosch123, well, regions can be quite big, more like continents or so.
23:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: there is no such thing as a "continent" in openttd
23:23:25 <frosch123> _dp_: maybe try "timezones" then :p
23:23:37 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, doesn't mean it can't be defined ;)
23:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so, if it's not a rectangle, you're having a hard time
23:24:20 <_dp_> pff, hardest thing is to actually prevent someone from building somewhere
23:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> also, how do you decide where a person is "living"?
23:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> geoip? how about proxies?
23:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and how about multiple people in the same company?
23:25:25 <supermop> V453000: what madness is this you are planning
23:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause> preventing building is trivial, so long as you're able to patch the executable
23:25:56 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, idea is to get people from different regions in one company))
23:25:58 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: since when is anything V453000 is planning NOT madness?
23:26:08 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, you're taking this too serious though :p
23:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: there's also GS magic to undo things a player did in the wrong place
23:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> may be less pretty
23:27:28 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, seen that magic, quite easy to fool :p
23:27:35 <supermop> composited sprites sounds particularly interesting madness
23:28:46 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, filtering incoming commands on server is still the most viable way
23:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: piping all incoming commands through the GS for validation is too problematic? or too inefficent?
23:31:22 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, why bother with gs for that?
23:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> more flexibility?
23:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that could be included in the main game, instead of being some server-specific hack
23:33:04 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: competitive servers will always find something that does not fit the main game
23:33:05 <_dp_> filtering is a hack no matter how you do it :p
23:36:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: did gb ever accept the european court?
23:37:16 <frosch123> i only remember them complaining that brittish cannot be wrong
23:37:33 <frosch123> you now, like us soldiers are incapable of comitting war crimes
23:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are multiple european courts. and generally the US have a problem with outside jurisdiction
23:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i believe i've heard of some british court cases going to european level, like the assange thing, and various stuff about the snwoden reveals about GCHQ
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23:55:10 <Samu> main topic needs some editing yet
23:56:00 <supermop> frosch123: any US soldier with a strong case against them who found himself abroad could well be arrested and tried, but seems the types who find them selves on the wrong side of international law are the types to stay out of countries that might do anything about it
23:57:05 <_dp_> first thing that needs flexibility is network command system imo
23:57:16 <_dp_> no point having "flexible" gs when it can't do shit
23:58:13 <supermop> the few people I knew from High school who fought in Iraq or Afghanistan, that was the only time they had ever visited a country that wasn't on very friendly terms with the US (such as GB)
23:59:02 <frosch123> haha, yesterday the news here was full of "us no longer wants to be bff with gb, if they leave eu" :)
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