IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-04-09
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00:02:14 <Samu> strange, i can't trigger this bug now :(
00:03:30 <Samu> I swear I saw Choochoo and Chopper debug in the same AI
00:03:46 <Samu> grr, i hate it when i can't reproduce bugs
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00:21:35 <Samu> who's the AI script expert here?
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01:37:54 <suitsmeveryfine> Hi! I'm trying to package OpenTTD for Guix SD but have difficulties with the 'lzo' dependency. The config file can detect other packages such as 'zlib' and 'sdl' but not 'lzo', probably because pkg-config isn't used in this particular case.
01:40:05 <suitsmeveryfine> I lack the skills to patch config.lib myself. Do any of you have an idea?
02:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably a --with(out)-lzo switch in ./configure
02:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have no clue how config.lib works
02:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> lzo is really only used for loading old savegames
02:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so if it's for personal use, you can probably live without it, but for a general audience you should maybe include it
02:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd expect it to work like "--with-lzo=<location>"
02:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ("old savegames" may include the title game)
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03:34:58 <suitsmeveryfine> Eddi: I'm not sure if you're still here but, yes, it's for general use.
03:38:48 <suitsmeveryfine> I can build successfully only with the "without" switch enabled. GuixSD is a quite different type of GNU/Linux distro where package names don't stay the same because they contain a unique hash. Therefore I can't easily make use of "--with-lzo=<location>"
03:40:19 <suitsmeveryfine> I'm going AFK now, but thanks for answering my question.
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09:18:04 <peter1138> grrr, waited ages for delivery, then it gets delivered on a saturday... to work address...
09:18:20 <peter1138> (so rather, not delivered)
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10:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so your squares are not actually square, but you'd still like it to occupy exactly a "square"?
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11:30:01 <V453000> yeah pretty much Eddi|zuHause
11:31:27 <V453000> same as what it does in openttd, you want the train look like it takes half a tile on diagonals, basically
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11:38:34 <V453000> well there will even be a helper GUI to clearly see which inserter loads from which
11:38:38 <V453000> but the graphics are the actual issue
11:40:38 <Wolf01> I think the graphics shouldn't be directly used as boundingbox for the functionality
11:41:11 <V453000> but how do you think to fill the gap? stretched graphics, fillers, bigger gaps between wagons?
11:41:24 <V453000> making it look nice with either or all of those things is the challenge
11:48:21 <V453000> the issue is to make the transition from shorter to longer train look nice
11:48:33 <V453000> I believe I will be able to solve it as I did similar tests in openttd, but it isn't easy
11:56:28 <Wolf01> I like the idea of the limit of 6 inserters and fixing the vertical length with the graphic stretching it could be a good option, the wagon looks like rubber on the gif, but you don't really see wagons rotating in that way on the game (or are you planning to add turntables?) and I think you won't even notice the stretching
12:09:24 <Wolf01> it will break hard the station layouts, but who cares?
12:09:54 <Wolf01> it's the target of the game to actually build and rebuild and rebuild and rebuild everything
12:13:25 <V453000> well 0.13 has so many features that the idea of keeping compatibility is pretty overruled :D
12:13:34 <V453000> it should be mostly compatible but...
12:17:02 <Wolf01> it happened with the belts-unloading-on-the-ground too and the inserters loading point on 0.12
12:36:47 <Samu> hey guys, today i'm investigating openttd memory usage when saving a game
12:37:28 <Samu> some interesting results
12:38:34 <Samu> there's the whole raw game state + the memcopy + mem used by lzma
12:39:00 <Samu> that's quite some overhead
12:41:47 <Samu> on 32-bit copy of open ttd, the 4096x4096 map size is frightening
12:42:11 <Samu> it borders up to 1.700k for openttd.exe process
12:42:47 <andythenorth> power plant accepts coal eh?
12:42:55 <andythenorth> I love these heisenbugs
12:42:58 <andythenorth> they’re just great
12:43:29 <andythenorth> perhaps my text editor is transposing this? accept_cargo_types: [cargotype("COAL")];
12:43:35 <Samu> does openttd actually crash with out of memory? do u get such crash reports?
12:43:43 <andythenorth> perhaps on disk, the bytes have actually been written for “BEER”
12:43:49 <andythenorth> but my OS is lying to me?
12:44:01 <planetmaker> Samu, yes, that happens
12:44:42 <planetmaker> Samu, if it tries to allocate memory it needs, but it can't get it, then it has no other option than to stop working
12:45:25 <planetmaker> the crash report will tell you that it failed because of OOM
12:46:05 <planetmaker> 256M was too little for our server with 1k^2 maps
12:50:43 <Samu> is there a limit for AI mem usage? some years ago, they could allocate whatever they wanted, was this changed?
13:01:45 <Samu> if i can figure out the memcopy size, i can isolate and calculate the mem used by lzma only
13:02:33 <Samu> memcopy is by my estimate, ~170+ MB
13:09:23 <Samu> 888.832 + 174.924 + x = 1.079.204
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14:12:02 <Wolf01> V453000, do you know if it is in the air a change about the chests slot reservation/limit? It would be really cool to reservate quickly a bunch of slots for the same item (I usually fill the wagons with wooden crate and then change only the slots I need)
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14:44:49 <Samu> i can pinpoint openttd lzma mem usage to about 16.432KB +/- 920KB
14:48:26 <Samu> memcopy was 173.016KB +/- 920KB
14:49:18 <Samu> and the rest of openttd process was 888.452KB +/- 920KB
14:52:08 <Samu> 888.452KB + 173.016KB + 16.432KB = 1.077.900KB +/- 920KB total peak mem usage for creating a savegame
14:53:21 <Samu> of a map sized 4096x4096 without any transport services being run yet
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15:50:42 <Samu> I'm doing stuff no one cares about
15:54:48 <drac_boy> anyway going for a bit..may be bakc later
16:05:24 <Samu> is the raw uncompressed data from a savegame a hash chain or a binary tree? or does this question make no sense?
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16:41:44 <andythenorth> almost certainly
16:42:46 <Alberth> solved the alcohol mystery?
16:46:09 <andythenorth> can’t even repro it by changing grfs (or parameters) on a running game
16:46:46 <andythenorth> it’s a bug in openttd, or a bug in the bug report
16:47:00 <andythenorth> or a bug in nmlc
16:47:12 <andythenorth> but only affecting certain users
16:47:25 <andythenorth> or FIRS compile is non-deterministic
16:47:44 <andythenorth> if I had to put €5000 on this, it wouldn’t be on the FIRS compile or nmlc :P
16:49:28 <andythenorth> looks about right to me
16:49:37 <andythenorth> did you get 1 of each industry?
16:53:03 <Alberth> almost, 1950, no recycling (2 industries), no oilrig, no biorefinery, and no smithy forge
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17:14:42 <supermop> need to get some pogs printed
17:15:36 <andythenorth> enum CatTypes {CAT_FAT = 0, CAT_THIN = 1, CAT_SAT_ON_HOT_TUB_LID = 0, CAT_AT_WINDOW_MIAOWING_ANNOYINGLY = 1, CAT_BELONGS_TO_NEIGHBOUR = CATS_ALL};
17:18:22 * andythenorth considers ‘build a cat’ feature for OpenTTD
17:18:29 <andythenorth> srsly, grow the user base
17:22:15 <Alberth> owning a hot tub, and using it are two different things :p
17:22:32 <andythenorth> cat is on it, can’t use it
17:22:36 <supermop> also: slowly turn openttd into neko atsume
17:22:48 <supermop> or whatever that game is called
17:29:49 <supermop> ok going to do more suit shopping
17:30:05 <supermop> might get a very german hugo boss one
17:30:44 <supermop> navy with multicolored flecks like a VW harlequin polo
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18:17:54 <DorpsGek> frosch123: terkhen was last seen in #openttd 9 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 40 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Terkhen> Hello
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19:08:57 <Alberth> first AI is a human player?
19:09:20 <Samu> no, it's a real human player, my company
19:10:23 <Alberth> what's the colors about?
19:10:54 <Samu> red indicates an AI that started, but IsDead()
19:11:11 <Samu> green indicates an AI that started, still living
19:11:49 <Samu> orange means... AIs that didn't start, but the slots are configurable
19:12:24 <Samu> red slot is also configurable
19:12:57 <Alberth> how is this configuration? I would expect a configuration to be separate from the actual companies
19:13:21 <Alberth> if I specify an AI, I don't specify "living" or "dead"
19:14:45 <Alberth> I wonder if "AIs" should really be companies
19:16:58 <Samu> sorry i dont understand the question
19:17:26 <andythenorth> is the FIRS bug fixed yet?
19:18:38 <Samu> when clicking a red or orange slot from the list, the "Select" and "Configure" buttons can be clicked
19:18:58 <Samu> you can switch to another AI script, define the new script parameters
19:19:21 <Alberth> the point is that in this window, you are now mixing game play progress and pre-game configuration
19:19:39 <Samu> but to start it, you have to do to AI debug window and click "Reload AI" - it re-rolls the slot with the new script you've set
19:19:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: the plural thing will be fixed in eints
19:20:17 <andythenorth> I was referring to this power plant that accepts alcohol
19:20:22 <andythenorth> which I can see right now in game
19:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> started a new game?
19:21:43 <Samu> hmm, what do you suggest me to do?
19:22:04 <Alberth> Samu: I am wondering about that
19:22:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ? o_O
19:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i upgraded my OS
19:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and there are a million tiny problems
19:23:19 <Alberth> Samu: I didn't say that, I am just not sure how to go further
19:23:26 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: switch to OS X , and have just a few really big problems? o_O
19:23:33 <andythenorth> and someone to blame for them?
19:23:38 <andythenorth> and no way to fix them
19:23:45 <Alberth> Samu: you want a more company number oriented allocation, I guess?
19:24:10 <andythenorth> wtf, how did he get power plants onto this map?
19:24:43 <andythenorth> it’s in Temperate Basic economy, there are no power plants
19:24:52 <andythenorth> and it’s not a newgrf industry, there’s no debug icon
19:25:12 <Samu> in my opinion, yeah, since the slot is also tied with the ai debug window
19:25:44 <Alberth> andythenorth: alcohol slot matches with original coal?
19:25:50 <Samu> slot 1 = company 1 = ai debug 1
19:25:58 <Samu> slot 2 = company 2 = ai debug 2
19:26:48 <Alberth> Samu: right. Here you are doing configuration, so I'd only show whether or not you can configure a slot
19:26:53 <supermop> andythenorth: if high enough proof, maybe the power plant is burning spirits?
19:27:09 <andythenorth> maybe, but also something is broken :(
19:27:11 <supermop> not a bug, it's a feature
19:27:36 <supermop> environmentally friendly ethanol burning power plant
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19:28:04 <supermop> the plant is a default industry?
19:28:21 <Samu> i am currently only allowing slot configuration for AI which IsDead() = true.
19:28:47 <Alberth> and all beyond the max competitors?
19:28:48 <frosch123> supermop: i would rather suspect the employees dringking it
19:29:04 <andythenorth> this player has managed to get 5 power plants onto this map
19:29:07 <Alberth> pure alcohol? not a good idea :)
19:29:12 <andythenorth> they do not show in the minimap
19:29:20 <andythenorth> but they are in the industry list as <invalid industry>
19:30:03 <Samu> yesterday I tried configuration for AIs which were still alive, but that caused some issues with the script that was running
19:30:24 <Alberth> type gamelog in console check for not having modified newgrfs ater time = 0
19:30:25 <glx> usually <invalid> stuff comes when grf are changed in a running game
19:31:08 <Alberth> Samu: yeah, that sounds like a bad idea :)
19:31:24 <andythenorth> I miss loads of the grfs
19:31:37 <andythenorth> and my internet connection is currently about 5KB/s :x
19:31:39 <Samu> I am unsure if it can be done for dead AIs, i don't suppose they would come to life once they die, or do they?
19:31:43 <frosch123> that save has no weird powerplants?
19:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> missing grfs will certainly cause <invalid> stuff :p
19:32:09 <andythenorth> but I miss so many grfs here that all bets are off
19:32:10 <frosch123> yes, but they are grf provided
19:32:16 <frosch123> and not called <invalid industry>?
19:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause> why even bother us when you have missing grfs?
19:32:59 <andythenorth> because I can’t fricking download them :(
19:33:00 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: only weirdos have the separator grfs
19:33:09 <Samu> ok let me upload this patch
19:33:28 <Alberth> andythenorth: gamelog looks clean
19:33:30 <andythenorth> debugging other people’s crap with a failed internet connection and a broadband provider status page showing only green lights
19:33:38 <Alberth> but maybe one of the newgrfs enables industry?
19:33:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: to me it looks like the power station is just provided by firs
19:34:03 <frosch123> you can even fund new ones
19:34:29 <andythenorth> how do FIRS version numbers work? They make no sense to me
19:34:51 <andythenorth> I have to find the right version of FIRS, and o/c I have thousands to choose from
19:35:02 <frosch123> it's the date of the commit
19:35:21 <frosch123> in days since 2000-01-01
19:35:25 <Alberth> loaded compatible newgrfs after a game load though
19:37:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: i still don't get it... i used the bananas version to load the save
19:37:36 <andythenorth> the bananas version isn’t 2.0.0?
19:37:52 * andythenorth doesn’t understand the versions tbh
19:38:04 <Alberth> hmm, I have "coal" :p
19:38:09 <andythenorth> the filename isn’t 2.0.0
19:38:58 <andythenorth> I have just built the 2.0.0 tag
19:39:18 <andythenorth> the one in the save is 5935
19:39:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: just download firs from bananas?
19:40:04 <andythenorth> apparently I did already
19:40:16 <andythenorth> bananas refuses to download it
19:40:24 <frosch123> do you have multiple firs_2-2.0.tar on your disk?
19:40:37 <andythenorth> I just built one
19:40:51 <frosch123> ottd cannot distinguish tars with same name
19:44:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, the industry is named "power station", not "power plant"
19:45:47 <andythenorth> I just have <invalid name>
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27537 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2016-04-09 19:45:38 +0200 )
19:45:50 <DorpsGek> korean: 2 changes by telk5093
19:48:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: land info tool says "pre-industrial era houses"
19:48:40 <frosch123> so, another grf defines industries
19:49:01 <andythenorth> I’ll need to add a compaibility check for that :)
19:49:07 <Alberth> samu: this is about 15 competitors?
19:54:27 <Alberth> can you just for the total number of valid industries instead?
19:54:51 <Alberth> you know how many to expect, so any deviation means broken sutff
19:58:48 <andythenorth> interesting idea
19:59:07 <andythenorth> not sure that can be done in the action where the checks are handled
19:59:40 <Alberth> you can skip your own :)
20:01:33 <andythenorth> there should be some kind of online global grf registry :P
20:01:46 <andythenorth> which maintains a compatibility matrix
20:02:26 <Sylf> I don't think not even the newgrf authors know the full compatibility issues
20:03:11 <andythenorth> thanks for replying in the thread btw Sylf
20:03:31 <Sylf> that was one of the weirdest issue I've seen in recent days
20:06:38 <andythenorth> I forget why the FIRS version isn’t just the commit hash
20:06:41 <andythenorth> there is a reason
20:08:06 <Alberth> deciding which one is newer
20:09:11 <Alberth> I can't understand how git devs expect us to handle that
20:10:02 <Alberth> but they might believe everybody wants to be a git wizard
20:10:41 <andythenorth> look at current tree, see where hash is
20:10:50 <supermop> Sylf: did you used to live in tokyo?
20:11:12 <andythenorth> date-based versioning against specific commits is weird if you’re merging a lot of feature branches
20:11:58 * andythenorth is guessing, doesn’t know
20:12:00 <Alberth> a few days ago I needed "something newer than where I was"
20:12:32 <Alberth> which would be trivial in svn and hg :)
20:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i always found the date-based versioning odd
20:16:13 <Samu> I'm editing the first post of that topic, to better explain everything what this patch do.
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20:25:13 * andythenorth wonders if FIRS can just do x.y.z for compatible versions
20:25:35 <andythenorth> I care not about breaking nightlies
20:25:44 <DorpsGek> Alberth: drac_boy was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 30 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <drac_boy> anyway going for a bit..may be bakc later
20:25:59 <andythenorth> x.y.z might be problematic with RCs
20:28:09 <andythenorth> how does openttd actually check? just x > y ?
20:28:23 <andythenorth> where x is current grf version and y is min. version
20:31:21 <frosch123> matching md5 goes first
20:31:47 <frosch123> then largest version number with version-in-save >= min-compatible
20:42:14 <supermop> ah, ok. I cant find any pictures of what the first couple generations of tokyo monorail looked like in the 60s and 70s
20:42:40 <andythenorth> use the osaka one
20:44:31 <supermop> oldest osaka one is 1990 and i already have that one standing in for 2nd or 3rd generation
20:45:12 <supermop> so looks like a normal 60s JR EMU i guess?
20:45:26 <andythenorth> they’re just boxes at TTD scale
20:45:38 <andythenorth> just use the same one, and change the livery
20:45:53 <andythenorth> add / remove white
20:46:27 <Sylf> yeah, it looks like it. Maybe a bit shorter.
20:46:31 <supermop> this livery would look good and 60s ish
20:49:23 <supermop> andythenorth: 1 tile long train made up of 5/6/5 kosher for IH, or must be 8/8?
20:50:52 <supermop> 5/8 in the / | views is a pain
20:51:06 <supermop> non-integer pixel length
20:51:18 <andythenorth> all / views are a pain :)
20:51:31 <V453000> 5/8 sounds like a terrible idea
20:51:36 <V453000> no real benefit over 4/8
20:51:53 <supermop> V453000: 5+6+5 adds up to 16
20:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i used 4/8/4 for 1 tile
20:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> also, why would 5/8 be non-integer? each 1/8 is 1px up and 2px over
20:53:04 <supermop> 6+4+6 maybe better - then cab cars are a tad longer
20:54:51 <supermop> the template im working from has 8/8 as 20px long, 10px up in / view
20:54:52 <andythenorth> if you draw enough, you’ll end up favouring 8/8
20:55:00 <andythenorth> because that’s less drawing :P
20:55:07 <andythenorth> only one sprite needed, not two
20:55:50 <supermop> unless thats totally wrong?
20:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that just needs the right templates :p
20:56:16 <supermop> andythenorth: how long is IH pony 3rd gen coach?
20:56:30 <andythenorth> measure the pixels in – view
20:56:54 <andythenorth> these things happen
20:57:31 <supermop> soo new feature: my place holder sprites now allow for 10/8 railcars
20:58:23 <supermop> so i already have a 5/8 sprite at least then
20:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> be aware that 10/8 can't be dual headed
20:59:17 <andythenorth> nothing in IH can be dual-headed :)
20:59:21 <supermop> never drew vehicles before so didn't notice 40 was too long
21:00:07 <supermop> andythenorth: what was your shinkansen/cargo sprinter idea?
21:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: always draw vehicles into existing templates
21:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: because nobody is going to bother figuring out offsets for each sprite over and over
21:00:47 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: was, didn't realize was a template for 10/8 because i am a moron
21:01:36 <andythenorth> supermop: the cargo sprinter has a stupid magical template that uses different sprites for first/last vehicle and middle vehicles
21:01:54 <andythenorth> it also handles cargo-specific graphics, with random variants :P
21:02:00 <andythenorth> I never ever ever want to see it again
21:02:30 <andythenorth> real show-pony stuff, total overkill
21:02:58 <andythenorth> but it could be used for EMUs also
21:04:02 <supermop> i'll figure out a way to bribe you into using that for shinkansen
21:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds ridiculously overcomplicated over just making something dual head
21:05:03 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: idk how the CS works, but ideally every car adds power, not just the heads
21:05:13 <Samu> now it should be all clear
21:06:31 <supermop> fiance vetoed the multi-colored suit
21:08:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you might be right, but then double-head engines are restricted to 8/8 and it’s a janky schema with special cases
21:08:21 <supermop> now that i've accidentally drawn a 5/8 emu part, the 5+6+5 monorail does seem more attractive
21:08:31 * andythenorth wonders what the best way to build a shinkansen is for player
21:08:49 <supermop> easiest is you buy a 4-car set
21:09:04 <andythenorth> it’s not very flexible for capacity
21:09:07 <andythenorth> does that matter?
21:09:16 <supermop> 2nd easiest is just keep buying single shinkansen cars
21:09:21 <andythenorth> are they pax only?
21:09:35 <supermop> in real life and in concept
21:10:26 <sim-al2> In game terms it might be good to have mail as an option
21:10:41 <andythenorth> recently I have been playing with 5 tile train lengths
21:10:51 <supermop> in real life the end cars should be lower capacity and more expensive, due to cabs, long aerodynamic area, couplers etc
21:11:01 <Samu> my english is so horrible :o
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21:11:23 <supermop> but i dont mind a center car costing the same as an end car
21:11:51 <sim-al2> Of course, in reality, after the 0 series the end cars don't have traction motor either...
21:11:53 <supermop> nor do i mind it having same capacity
21:13:03 <supermop> sim-al2: in real life japanese emus are too complicated in their set layouts, between where powered cars and trailers go
21:13:15 <supermop> in game should be homogenized
21:13:27 <sim-al2> Well, exluding those 4 car 100 series trains. But yeah, that's way far out for a game to replicate
21:14:06 <andythenorth> supermop: I think high-speed MUs like that are best treated similar to planes
21:14:20 <andythenorth> consists are 3 (maybe 4) tile long
21:14:28 <andythenorth> several hundred pax
21:14:37 <andythenorth> if you want bigger, add another whole consist
21:15:01 <Sylf> shinkansen normally have very fixed consists
21:15:13 <Sylf> 8, 12 or 16 cars for 0 series
21:15:18 <sim-al2> Most of them have what's referred to as the MM' setup, where there's two types of equipment, one car with pantograph, transformer, and motor controller, and the other car might have the air compressor, but both motored
21:15:34 <sim-al2> There were 4 and 6 car trains for the West Kodoma near the end
21:15:48 <supermop> sim-al2: too complex for iron horse
21:15:53 <Sylf> but for the game, I prefer I can create my own consists
21:16:05 <sim-al2> I know, just for reference
21:16:23 <sim-al2> Nevermind the bilevel cars that appeared at one point
21:18:03 <andythenorth> 8 cars at 8/8 is 4 tiles
21:18:05 <Samu> CRAP, i forgot to describe the best feature of this all... restarting the slot with another AI script
21:18:06 <andythenorth> which is about right
21:19:10 <supermop> sim-al2: no MAX in this roster, throws off balance between shinkanse and regular EMU
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21:19:39 <sim-al2> No, the 100 and 200 had bilevel green and dining cars, because they had such long trips
21:20:11 <sim-al2> Especially 100 series, Toyko to the end of the Sanyo Shnkansen takes a long time at 220 km/h
21:20:12 <supermop> sim-al2: ah those were gone by my first trip to japan i think
21:20:31 <sim-al2> It was only two cars in a 16 car formation
21:20:53 <sim-al2> I think they were cut up by the late 80's, definetly by the 90's
21:21:08 <supermop> when i was there the first time it was mostly 300s and 500s, few 0s and few 700s\
21:21:31 <sim-al2> Yeah, they would have been gone, having trains at 270 km/h really speeded everything up
21:21:34 <supermop> havet seen a 500 since then tho
21:22:05 <sim-al2> They're around, but on the Sanyo Shinkansen
21:22:40 <sim-al2> Too expensive for mass production. The 700 series have almost the same performance at much lower price to build
21:23:16 <supermop> sim-al2: yeah but 500s scream 90s industrial design
21:23:40 <supermop> wish i could have gone last year to see the 500/evangelion 20th aniversary set
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21:25:51 <Samu> done :) damn i feel so proud i made something decent
21:26:56 <sim-al2> Also you have a single black pixel at 7x7
21:27:12 <Samu> oh, you're not talking to me
21:27:17 <sim-al2> Sorry Samu, I was talking to supermop
21:27:37 <sim-al2> But the AI patch is looking cool
21:28:03 <Samu> i'm unsure if game scripts could do the same, only if i test it
21:30:32 <supermop> andythenorth: Japan set is gpl so could steal their shinkansens,
21:33:13 <supermop> sim-al2: not enough space to show separate bogies
21:34:06 <supermop> bogies will be painted over with a monorail side skirt anyway, as i dont have any rail vehicle planned for 5/8
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22:04:48 <sim-al2> Yeah, I think they took them off because it made inspections too hard
22:09:44 <supermop> andy, should sprite sheets for each vehicle be posted as issues?
22:12:25 <andythenorth> yeah that’s fine
22:12:41 <andythenorth> no plan survives the first test game btw ;)
22:13:54 <supermop> yeah, i am trying to think as little as possible about hp, speed, and capacity
22:15:14 <supermop> for monorails, i am guessing regardless of whether I do 5 6 5 or 6 4 6, it is best that all generations use the same?
22:16:07 <sim-al2> Yeah, people will get confused if they change like that
22:22:33 <Snail> hey guys, I have a question about var61
22:22:54 <Snail> it currently works with a limited number of callbacks… such as recoloring
22:23:26 <Snail> I understand it’s like this to prevent circular references. However, my question is, can we extend it to the “wagon length” callback as well?
22:24:43 <frosch123> no, it cannot be extended to anything that affects gameplay
22:25:18 <frosch123> because that's where the circular references cause trouble
22:31:18 <supermop> ok ive cut the vehicle into 1/8 slices
22:31:40 <supermop> so i can just stack as many as i need
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23:11:51 <supermop> is 19 m abnormally long for a diesel locomotive?
23:19:23 <peter1138> firmware update for watch... ;s
23:19:55 <Supercheese> Who watches the watches?
23:20:16 <Samu> do u know of a game script that dies on game start? Need one to test something
23:21:49 <supermop> would you say that considering those two locomotives together, if red is 1CC, would 2CC be white, or grey?
23:23:00 <supermop> so, would the light grey paint change color with 2cc while the white accent stays white? or would the white accent change color while the grey stays grey?
23:25:03 <supermop> Sylf: would you say that JR Freight's colors are red and white, or red and grey, for diesels?
23:29:07 <sim-al2> Newer ones seem to be red and grey
23:31:17 <supermop> that still has white logo and stripe though
23:31:19 <sim-al2> Although the HD300 does look like it's red and white
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23:38:21 <sim-al2> With old locomotives like the DE10 and DD51, there's tons of paint variations
23:40:24 <Sylf> I don't know of that many different paints for freight locos
23:40:48 <sim-al2> When you look at the wikipedia pages, I suggest you switch to Japanese language (left sidebar), you get tons more pictures
23:41:24 <Sylf> Japanese is my first language, so that's where I automatically go to when reading up on japanese trains
23:41:40 <Sylf> Many color variations are normally for pax
23:42:02 <sim-al2> Yeah, but their are small variations in scheme over the years
23:42:53 <Sylf> but vast majority stay with one design, one color scheme
23:43:13 <sim-al2> I assume different depots are responsible for the variations
23:45:51 <Sylf> I guess DF200 is more red-and-grey, not much white.
23:47:28 <sim-al2> It seems earlier batches have red-painted plows
23:47:53 <sim-al2> Or rather, the end plate above the plow
23:48:44 <Sylf> I caught a photo of one of those earlier this year in sapporo :)
23:49:31 <sim-al2> So I understand that they haul agricultural products from Hokkiado, but do they work south of Hakodate at all?
23:52:08 <sim-al2> Sorry, I just don't have a grasp of where diesels in Hokkiado are actually used, except that the lines away from Sapporo are not electrified
23:52:56 <Sylf> DF200 can be used outside of Hokkaido, but they aren't used - no need.
23:53:17 <Sylf> DF200 special version is used in Kyushu, pulling the Nanatsuboshi train
23:53:28 <Sylf> that's the only exception (the brown scheme)
23:53:54 <sim-al2> Yeah, the exterior design of the Kyushi unit is... interesting...
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