IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-04-10
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00:00:14 <supermop> cant decide what will look best in IH style, colorful stripe and big grey areas,
00:00:28 <supermop> or large areas of color with a white stripe
00:12:36 <Samu> Unhandled exception at 0x00007FF6066270AB in openttd.exe: An invalid parameter was passed to a function that considers invalid parameters fatal.
00:14:02 <Samu> visual studio express 2015 does that sometimes when I exit openttd
00:35:46 <Samu> how do I pause an AI? I see that there's some code related to IsPaused
00:36:12 <Samu> but in the game I don't see how I can pause AIs
00:36:17 <Samu> i can only stop it completely
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01:19:29 <drac_boy> the yellow splash is...tbh...a little funny looking
01:20:08 <sim-al2> Early Conrail paint schemes are rather interesting
01:20:17 <drac_boy> (also...not sure why that looks like an electronic megaphone for a horn? heh, never seen one like that afaik)
01:21:04 <sim-al2> There were some experiments with warning devices at that time, Union Pacific tried sirens and stuff
01:21:42 <drac_boy> well conrail did have one single GG1 that was painted all blue (everything else just got the black 'CR' basic treatment) ... the real reason why tho was to cover up the bicentennial paintjob tho
01:23:16 <drac_boy> not too surprised that they choosed the 'Rivet' one for the special paintjob
01:23:35 <drac_boy> ofc even with the new blue paint you still can see all these dotted lines :)
01:30:10 <drac_boy> that also had one other thing that I can't recall seeing active in any photos I've seen (probably need to find earlier ones) ... rather than using old fashioned flags on pole they had electronic 'flags' (the 3+3 lamps above windshields yeah)
01:32:25 <drac_boy> heh hm that reminds me of an unusual photo in one of the canadian rail magazine that I don't have anymore .. an early wide-hood locomotive flying white flags even although the practice officially was already gone by that date
01:33:34 <sim-al2> Yeah, I suspect that the requirement for using flags disappeared while these were being built
01:35:13 <drac_boy> theres only the blue flag .. and even then later these became hard plates instead (the kind you keep by shed instead of rolling up and throw into cab stow)
01:37:38 <drac_boy> old F units, a F40PH (I think), PC (or at least ex-PC) alco leading a F unit on local train . AND the amtrak rohr train
01:41:42 <sim-al2> Yeah, no Metra at that time
01:45:43 <drac_boy> as I recall a few of the commuter networks were from the "shutting down services? we'll take it into our own hands instead" era during 1970-1980s period
01:54:26 <drac_boy> also interestingly enough the South Shore was technically classified as interurban which meant it could had become amtrak's but didn't happen. later it basically became a city owned commuter
01:58:47 <drac_boy> ah sim I almost forgot, did you know that the George railroad actually kept a caboose or heavyweight coach on all of its freight trains for a long time and even refused to join amtrak because they were afraid of losing a tax subsidiary. when SAL bought them out these rarely-used rides suddenly disappeared :)
01:59:24 <drac_boy> must had been an old steam era tax structure me think. no idea tbh
02:00:33 <sim-al2> Possibly, also, the ICC had some interesting rules about common carrier services
02:03:48 <drac_boy> also ICC got involved in the "interurban" wording .. as I recall there was one railroad that asked a merger plan to be processed under interurban laws but later ICC came back saying that as they had diesel locomotives nope they must use steam road merger rules .. and on cue the merger was denied under strong opposition from a would-had-been-parallel railroad
02:04:15 <drac_boy> apparently interurbans had much less regulations for a merger
02:06:38 <drac_boy> mind you there is one other side of the ICC ... Southern Pacific's long fight with them for these super-sized (back then, now they probably look small? heh) freight wagons with equally lower tonnage prices to match
02:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> why is there a guy walking on the rails into the oncoming train at that photo?
02:08:54 <drac_boy> tbh I think the F40PH may be simply parked 'hot' (although its headlight maybe shouldn't had been left staying on compared to that amtrak F unit)
02:09:10 <drac_boy> it seem like only the alco/F pair are actually moving at all
02:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the engine with the smilie face on the right?
02:09:54 <drac_boy> yep I see an arm in the alco cab window .. and looks like a bit of hot exhaust smoke too
02:10:17 <drac_boy> yeah that smile face .. its roadnumber lights are on but the headlight are off tho
02:10:19 <sim-al2> The switch is lined for the local, I suppose the guy is going to line the other switch closer to the Amtrak train
02:10:49 <drac_boy> sim...ah does look like a manual switch, maybe
02:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> for the shunting unit on the left to cross?
02:11:11 <sim-al2> Alternatively, he's going to set that switch so that the Amtrak can pass through
02:11:29 <drac_boy> little footnote: theres probably a conductor waiting to do something (in the very lower-left corner)
02:11:45 <drac_boy> not sure, no blue hat or anything
02:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i find the engine shed funny where they cut the rails leading into it
02:14:23 <sim-al2> I'd guess cheap and reliable
02:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> on the whole, this yard seems to have a long downward slope ahead of it
02:14:54 <sim-al2> Chicago is pretty flat
02:14:58 <drac_boy> well the SW1200 and 1500 were sold in a large number and still used the similar powerplants to the geeps
02:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant in time, not in geography :p
02:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the shady weather is probably not helping the look either :p
02:16:53 <drac_boy> pretty flat? you're going to want to try a different railroad :p .. I recall one that had a super-flat super-straight line but of course they were besieged with occassional but huge pileups due to hot bearings (because a very straight line makes it hard to look back on train)
02:17:01 <drac_boy> can't recall the railroad's name now sorry
02:21:35 <drac_boy> used to be (as an editor quoted) that downhill on a two-coach train a passenger standing on the rear vestibule would find his shoes higher than the horns on the leading F unit!
02:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a TTD slope :p
02:25:31 <drac_boy> (yep a heavy train so it buried itself hard.... :-s )
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02:40:04 <drac_boy> supermop that looks like a typical hydraulic-or-electric 3 axle shunter?
02:57:52 <drac_boy> ah sim no clue how to find a photo but there were always these few rather odd locomotives during the early mergers-happy years. nothing like finding a single diesel with a mix of different panels and everything (csx cab, up engine door, southern roof, etc? probably already been done!)
03:06:45 <drac_boy> anyway sorry if you wanted say something later but I'm going sleep soon now so bye :)
03:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> have i mentioned already that sometimes i do not understand a single word you say?
03:15:35 <sim-al2> The top line should read "Seaboard"
03:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> copy-paste error :p
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08:48:50 <Alberth> do you know how you find a git revision that added a line matching a pattern? I have lost a new file, it's in the git repo, but I don't know exactly where, and I only have part of the line that it should contain
08:49:09 <Alberth> I can also guess a filename
08:51:17 <andythenorth> I’m sure it can be done
08:53:40 <Alberth> pro-git book doesn't seem to have a discussion about it
08:59:39 <andythenorth> I’m assuming you need to dig out specific string from [all diffs]
09:04:34 <Alberth> that would be fine, the file is obviously not used much yet :p
09:07:46 <andythenorth> if I knew roughly when I committed it, I might be tempted to just step through commits using bitbucket interface or similar ;)
09:09:01 <Alberth> git log --all -G<pattern> did the trick
09:09:14 <Alberth> --all means search all branches
09:19:13 <Alberth> fyi --branches may be better for local branches :)
09:26:07 <Alberth> haha, GarryG is such fun, boldly just breaking all rules, and making new additions no-one ever did :)
09:38:22 <Alberth> and two other projects iirc
09:56:09 <peter1138> breaking all rules?
09:57:45 * andythenorth wonders about newgrf industry farm fields
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10:53:20 <andythenorth> Alberth: do you remember how I was going to do RoadTypes? All state was in my head, that was a long week ago :P
10:54:38 * andythenorth believes the best route was to use m4 for subtype
10:54:50 <andythenorth> and drop the current type bits, in favour of returning ROADTYPES_INVALID_TRAM / ROADTYPES_INVALID_ROAD where needed
10:55:54 <Alberth> /me tries to interpret that message
10:57:00 <Alberth> yes, I remember, and I even wondered about it today
10:57:36 <andythenorth> wondered if I’d done it, or wondered if there’s a better way? o_O
10:57:42 <Alberth> but I have some problems connecting m4 with source code modifications
10:58:07 <Alberth> wondered how far it was, mostly
10:58:18 <andythenorth> state fell out of my head :D
10:59:08 <Alberth> so what is the new idea about road types?
10:59:09 <andythenorth> application programming is so much harder than just compilling stuff :P
10:59:31 <andythenorth> I will write a spec first I think, implementation and spec are getting blurred too much
10:59:37 <Alberth> yep, you have to invent the right solution out of the blue
11:00:15 * andythenorth always finds decoupling implementation and spec weird
11:00:27 <andythenorth> there are implementation facts to address, like which bits are free in map
11:01:00 <Alberth> implementation is also a spec, but with a lot of details
11:01:16 <Alberth> so usually it's better to first write a spec at a higher level
11:01:49 <Alberth> leaving out all the details until you're reasonably sure that it will do what you want
11:02:16 <Alberth> and then fill in the details without having to worry about the overall structure
11:03:00 <Alberth> ie it's a continuum from single thought to realization
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11:10:08 <andythenorth> your proposal to split road / tram in the global toolbar
11:10:20 <andythenorth> that’s incidental to NotRoadTypes, but I think it helps it make sense
11:10:31 <andythenorth> would you put that at start or end of spec?
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11:11:57 <Alberth> near the end imho, as it's just the shape of things that you need in the realization
11:12:51 <Alberth> ie there are a zillion ways to split them, and it doesn't really matter how
11:13:01 <Alberth> at least at the start :)
11:13:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: both :)
11:13:25 <frosch123> the first thing is that "road" and "tram" shall be independent like "road" and "rail"
11:13:47 <frosch123> they can coexist on the same tile in some cases, but do not influence each other
11:14:54 <frosch123> in particular, that building tram does not alter/upgrade the roadtype on the tile etc
11:15:42 <frosch123> basically: at some point you would likely want to specify how the gameplay actions are affected
11:23:49 <Wolf01> I'm trying to figure out what would be the implications of moving the tram away of roadtypes, but I read "gameplay affections" so I think I'm not ready to think this morning
11:30:52 <frosch123> it means that a vehicle cannot be both roadvehicle and tram
11:31:08 <frosch123> and that building electrified tram on a road does not enable trolley busses
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11:50:38 <andythenorth> needs more clarity
11:51:03 <andythenorth> concept is clear, words not precise yet
11:59:57 <andythenorth> it would help clarity greatly to remove all existing use of ‘RoadType’ and have instead ‘RoadType’ and ‘TramType’ but there are problems with that
12:01:41 <Alberth> maybe differentiate between train rails and tram rail?
12:03:08 <Alberth> 1st line of subtypes is relevant, other lines are not. Move to end or discard?
12:04:04 <Alberth> mybe add a "newgrf author considerations" :)
12:04:57 <Alberth> addition there: "user should be able to see whether catenary exists for road, tram, or both
12:10:03 <Samu> so trams are special roads
12:10:39 <andythenorth> some parts of the code have concept of ‘mode’
12:10:52 <andythenorth> where mode is rail / road / water etc
12:11:20 * andythenorth wonders if tram can be treated as a first class mode, for terminology purposes
12:11:40 <andythenorth> half the challenge here is the terms are blurred becuase tram is just a roadtype
12:11:55 <andythenorth> but it’s a roadtype with numerous special cases :P
12:15:19 <Samu> NotRoadType needs a better name, :o
12:20:23 <Samu> NotRoadType { road, tram, subtype3, subtype4, subtype5, etc... up to 15? }
12:21:00 <Samu> so roads are nested stuff?
12:22:22 <andythenorth> read it 10 times
12:22:27 <andythenorth> then decide if roads are nested or not
12:22:38 <andythenorth> then read it again and change your mind
12:24:08 <andythenorth> Tram _should_ be a first class transport mode
12:24:20 <andythenorth> whether the implementation can be made to support that without too much work is another question
12:24:43 <Samu> names are confusing me a bit
12:25:15 <andythenorth> what’s confusing about RoadTypeRoad? o_O
12:25:43 <andythenorth> so you have Road on a tile, and the Road has a RoadType, and the RoadType can be RoadTypeRoad or RoadTypeTram
12:25:53 <andythenorth> so Road is Road, except when it’s Tram
12:26:22 <andythenorth> otoh, at least someone implemented it :)
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12:30:21 <Samu> and i don't even know if aircraft have their own tracks
12:31:22 <Samu> if you want to make road and tram completely unrelated with each other, better not have Road in the name, imo
12:31:38 <frosch123> • vehicle routing and movement per ‘road’ and ‘tram’ are independent <- that is likely not correct
12:31:56 <frosch123> they won't drive through each other, and may still consider occupancy of roadstops in pathfinder costs
12:33:34 <frosch123> ‘tram’ is always drawn above ‘road’; authors need to be aware of this when drawing sprites, no mechanism will be provided to vary this <- i guess there are three layers: road, tram, road/tram catenary
12:34:34 <frosch123> drawing of city roads, bridges, tunnels, and similar will follow existing behaviour <- what existing behaviour?
12:34:51 <frosch123> do you mean like railtypes?
12:38:50 <andythenorth> I don’t know how the current implementation works for that
12:39:22 <andythenorth> currently I’ve only tried making bridges etc support different subtype
12:39:34 <andythenorth> didn’t touch drawing except for catenary, which is trivial
12:41:59 <Samu> ok i better shut up, i have no idea what i'm talking about, sorry
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12:45:55 <frosch123> so, how do hg bookmarks work?
12:51:22 <andythenorth> Samu: no your points are quite fair I think
12:51:29 <andythenorth> ‘better not have Road in the name’ especially
12:52:09 <andythenorth> but there are so many places that is used, e.g. pathfinding etc, I can’t see how it could be sensibly changed
12:53:08 <Alberth> sed -e 's/Road/BlackTile/g' -i src/{*,*/*,*/*/*} or so ?
12:54:19 <andythenorth> well that might work :P
12:54:56 <frosch123> we just need a specialsed term for road that does not include tram/lightrail
12:55:54 <frosch123> RailType, RubberType, TramType, WaterClass
12:56:13 <frosch123> negations are complicated
12:56:23 <andythenorth> aren’t they just
12:56:42 <frosch123> sounds like something pikka would say
12:56:50 <andythenorth> for reasons also
12:57:56 <andythenorth> wikipedia seems to distinguish ‘wheeled’ and ‘railed’
12:58:05 <andythenorth> on the basis of how the force is transmitted to the ground
12:58:34 <andythenorth> ha there’s an ISO :)
13:00:10 <Alberth> confuses train with tram
13:00:29 <frosch123> CarType could work :)
13:00:36 <frosch123> sounds weird, but is unique
13:00:57 <Alberth> maybe WaterClass is weird :p
13:01:04 <andythenorth> lots of things are weird :D
13:01:13 <andythenorth> weird is fine, confusing and ambiguous is not :)
13:01:54 <Samu> WaterClass, i'm a bit familiar with this term
13:02:44 <frosch123> we already have groundvehicles
13:02:56 <frosch123> which include also rail
13:03:44 <frosch123> ottd is en_GB, trains have wagons
13:04:21 <frosch123> RailType, CarType, TramType, WaterClass
13:04:23 <Alberth> SilverSurferzz has cars :)
13:04:29 <frosch123> (LightRail is too complicated after all)
13:04:37 <frosch123> Alberth: and lots of them
13:04:59 <Alberth> just like his strings :)
13:05:18 <frosch123> yup :) silversurfer is basically the definition of a squirrel
13:07:37 <andythenorth> CarType is weird to me, but it’s bikeshedding :P
13:07:43 <andythenorth> as long as it’s unique, I don’t care
13:08:34 <frosch123> foundations are the walls, when you make a sloped tile flat
13:09:16 <Samu> I can see how easy it is to relate it to RoadType
13:09:26 <Samu> yeah, complicated task just for a name
13:09:38 <andythenorth> AutomobileType :P
13:10:10 <frosch123> StreetType is also nice
13:10:49 <andythenorth> it’s replaceable later anyway
13:11:06 <frosch123> reminds me of sydney. every town district has a victory road, a victory avenue, a victory lane and a victoria street
13:11:16 <Samu> TerrestrialTransportType
13:11:30 <Alberth> streettype is more generic imho
13:11:42 <frosch123> s/victory/victoria"
13:12:23 <frosch123> i prefer streettype because it refers more to the track than to the vehicles
13:12:48 <frosch123> like RailType instead of TrainType, WaterClass instead of ShipClass
13:13:05 <frosch123> just TramType is easier :p
13:13:26 <andythenorth> LightRailType produces unwanted results if searching for RailType :P
13:13:33 * andythenorth is lazy about searching
13:17:52 * andythenorth rewrites spec, per StreetType and TramType
13:34:27 <Samu> Alberth: if you have time for me
13:34:54 <Samu> The GS slot is following different rules to those of AI slots
13:35:14 <Samu> the red/green rules for the GS slot are.... confusing
13:35:44 <Alberth> yes, that's what I was trying to tell you yesterday
13:36:00 <Alberth> you're confusing configuration and game play
13:36:08 <Flygon> Nah, it's simple. You get four code slots per cartridge. You just have to plug in enough Gamesharks until your Mega Drive can't supply enough 5v current.
13:36:13 <Alberth> or rather, mixing them
13:36:39 <Samu> I've just uploaded a new version, v5, cus i spotted a bug, don't know you noticed it
13:37:22 <Samu> and also implemented the coloring for the GS slot. The GS slot "Configure" button can be clicked through that window
13:37:36 <Samu> that was something already possible before
13:40:46 <Alberth> I mostly got highly confused by all the unrelated max company changes
13:43:19 <Samu> this? -> "b) While in the main menu, all 15 slots are configurable, regardless of the current value of Maximum no. competitors. This means they're all highlighted in orange text."?
13:43:53 <Samu> i wanted to add some flexibility to this window
13:44:16 <Alberth> so the aim is just to have 15 competitors and colours?
13:44:22 * andythenorth needs a NotRoadTypes repo
13:44:35 <andythenorth> github? or hg and devzone?
13:45:25 <Samu> the aim is to let you configure the 15 slots, without locking them out if you have set a max no competitors to a value less than 15
13:45:34 <Alberth> how does devzone work with temporary repos?
13:45:46 <Alberth> I usually just make a repo at my local file system
13:45:52 <Samu> but a running game will still obey to the max_no_competitors value
13:46:03 <andythenorth> you are very trusting of your backups :)
13:46:23 <Samu> it's merely lets you configure those slots instead of locking them
13:46:32 <Alberth> nah, I don't mind much if they disappear :p
13:46:59 <andythenorth> $someone should make an annoying recursive name for NotRoadTypes
13:47:23 <Alberth> NRT is not road types ?
13:49:15 <Alberth> you want to configure AIs that can never be used?
13:50:08 <Samu> they could still be used, the max_no_competitor value is still changeable during a game
14:25:14 <Samu> Hey, I had an idea for the name
14:26:02 <Samu> tramway, roadway, railway
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14:44:12 <Samu> i should universalize the behaviour of AI slots + GS slot
14:44:33 <Samu> they behave differently for some of the common things
14:45:38 <Samu> even in the original code
14:49:14 <Samu> a GS slot is always editable
14:49:34 <Samu> an AI slot is never editable once it starts, in the original code
14:50:06 <Samu> GS slot script can't restart
14:50:12 <Samu> AI slot script can restart
14:53:14 <Samu> GS script can't be altered during a game
14:53:52 <Samu> AI script can be altered during a game if it has not started yet, in the original code
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14:55:13 <Samu> AI script can be altered during a game if it has started and died, in my code
14:56:06 <Samu> AI script can't be altered during a game if it has started and isn't dead, in my code
14:58:23 <Samu> GS parameters can be altered during a game, slot is editable
14:59:11 <Samu> AI parameters can't be altered during a game if it has started and isn't dead, slot is not editable, in my code :( must make it editable
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15:24:58 <supermop> hows it going Alberth
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15:35:16 <Samu> add CONFIG_INGAME to my list. I don't know where to look
15:40:42 <Samu> there are two ways to access the script Parameter windows: via AI/GS Debug window and via AI/GS Config window
15:41:34 <Alberth> script/script_config.hpp
15:41:34 <Alberth> 27: SCRIPTCONFIG_INGAME = 0x4, ///< This setting can be changed while the Script is running.
15:41:54 <Alberth> so there is a bit whether you can edit the script, apparently
15:42:38 <Alberth> or rather, change the parameter while it is running
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15:45:02 <Samu> it is the AI/GS Config window that is locking the slot
15:46:45 <Samu> i think the issue is solvable in the ai_gui.cpp
15:47:02 <Samu> don't have to edit the other files
15:47:23 <Samu> or i'm not sure what you're telling me
15:48:19 <Alberth> just telling you what that SCRIPTCONFIG_INGAME means
15:48:37 <Alberth> as you said "I don't know where to look"
16:01:04 <Samu> virtual void OnInvalidateData(int data = 0, bool gui_scope = true)
16:15:03 <Samu> IsEditable is so misleading
16:15:26 <Samu> IsSlotSelectable would be better
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17:02:53 <Samu> is it possible to simplify this code?
17:02:55 <Samu> this->SetWidgetDisabledState(WID_AIC_CHANGE, ((this->selected_slot == OWNER_DEITY && _game_mode == GM_NORMAL) || this->selected_slot == INVALID_COMPANY) || (this->selected_slot <= MAX_COMPANIES && _game_mode == GM_NORMAL && Company::IsValidAiID(this->selected_slot) && !Company::Get(this->selected_slot)->ai_instance->IsDead()));
17:07:56 <Samu> and as you can see, I am letting green slots to be selectable
17:08:10 <Samu> but disabling the Select AI button
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17:09:31 <Samu> to have similar funcionality as the GS slot
17:09:31 <Alberth> the final line is this->SetWidgetDisabledState(WID_AIC_CHANGE, disabled);
17:09:47 <Alberth> above it, bool disabled = ....
17:10:07 <Alberth> the latter gives you room to assign separate parts to the boolean
17:10:35 <Samu> yes, that's the intended goal, disable "Select AI" for the selected green slot
17:11:21 <Samu> I am once again allowing green slots to be selectable, aka IsEditable
17:11:38 <Samu> just not leting it to change to another AI
17:12:28 <Alberth> I just explained how you can break it in small pieces?
17:13:03 <LordAro> assuming i'm reading it right
17:13:18 <LordAro> just passing through :)
17:14:02 <LordAro> the condition(s) themselves don't appear to be able to be simplified though
17:15:15 <Samu> there's also INVALID_COMPANY, when you're not selecting anything
17:15:28 <LordAro> np, make sure you understand what it's doing though
17:16:08 * LordAro disappears into the night again
17:17:42 <andythenorth> so eh, got a spec
17:18:16 <andythenorth> implementation, it looks plausible to still wrap StreetType and TramType in some RoadType stuff
17:18:34 <andythenorth> or alternatively…not :P
17:24:00 <Rubidium> Alberth: the sun has set and not risen again, so it must be night (here and where LordAro is)
17:24:27 <andythenorth> removing RoadType in favour of only StreetType and TramType makes a lot of the road-related code more explicit and easier to understand
17:25:00 <andythenorth> but it also makes other places needlessly complex? e.g. infrastructure costs, vehicle construction…others
17:29:01 <andythenorth> loads of AI / GS support
17:30:13 <frosch123> i think you dug too deep
17:30:38 <frosch123> be careful of balrogs
17:30:39 <andythenorth> I think keeping RoadType and being able to unpack it to StreetType and TramType is preferable
17:30:56 <Rubidium> do you need 16 road and 16 tram types? Or is sharing 15 of both enough? (i.e. the num of road and tram types is 15). Then you could just have two IDs stored as "road type", where RoadType 0 means: slot not used
17:31:12 <andythenorth> I found > 500 places that RoadType would be removed and replaced with slightly more complex code :P
17:36:39 <Alberth> Rubidium: maybe lord aro is near you then :)
17:52:10 <Samu> i just hope assertions dont' get in the way
17:52:38 <Samu> i'm not sure if that's the right way to find out if a company is an AI, and it's AI script is dead
17:52:55 <Samu> do you know of a more correct way to check that?
17:54:09 <Samu> this part here: Company::IsValidAiID(this->selected_slot) && !Company::Get(this->selected_slot)->ai_instance->IsDead();
17:56:08 <Samu> what's the difference between Company::GetIfValid and Company::Get
17:57:52 <Alberth> documentation should tell you, but likely, the latter doesn't trust you give it a valid company id
17:58:00 <Alberth> euhm, the former, I mean
17:59:11 <glx> if AI is dead, the company is no longer an AI
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18:07:07 <Samu> IsValidAiID is also doing GetIfValid
18:11:10 <Samu> moving forward to WID_AIC_CONFIGURE
18:12:30 <Samu> I don't know how I want this widget to work
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18:18:26 <Samu> idea 1: make it work like the GS. it can be configurable from both AI/GS Config window and AI/GS Debug window
18:18:59 <Samu> idea 2: disable the button when an AI and a GS are running. it can be configurable from the AI/GS Debug window only
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18:20:39 <Samu> both AIs and GSs can die as well.
18:21:10 <Samu> when AI dies, it can restart, when a GS dies, it cannot restart
18:23:20 <Samu> i think idea 1 is a better approach, but then I also have to deal with alive and dead configs
18:25:04 <Samu> the instantiation or whatever it's called
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18:48:26 <andythenorth> is it painful to review if I do NotRoadTypes as a set of git branches?
18:49:45 <Alberth> at worst you can make a patch file for each commit at the end :)
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19:05:25 <Samu> i'm at script_config.cpp, hmm... so apparently I got to edit this file
19:06:07 <Alberth> just think of all the other files that you don't have to edit
19:09:20 <Samu> AnchorUnchangeableSettings
19:11:24 <Samu> in a game, AIs can define some parameters to be unchangeable during a game. This is nice, for as long as the AI is not dead
19:11:37 <Samu> but if it dies.... what's the point :(
19:13:04 <Samu> I am trying to find a way to "UnAnchorUnchangeableSettings" for dead AIs. halp!
19:13:26 <Samu> treat them like they're not in the game mode GM_NORMAL
19:15:25 <Gja> Can anyone tell me what train carts I can use with YETI?
19:16:02 <Alberth> anything except default set, and not too ancient
19:16:41 <Gja> Im new so just tring different stuff
19:16:50 <Alberth> if you like the default set, you can try ogfx+trains
19:17:10 <Alberth> there is also ogfx+rvs and a few other ogfx+ newgrfs
19:17:11 <Gja> honestly dont know about any alternatives to teh default
19:17:16 <Gja> I dont mind trying new things
19:17:40 <frosch123> use nuts to get matching yeti graphics on the trains
19:17:43 <Alberth> these work mostly like the default set, but you can use them with eg yeti
19:17:54 <Gja> nuts seems just kind of over done..
19:18:04 <frosch123> well, then pineapple trains
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19:18:29 <Alberth> iron horse, and squish are very playable too
19:18:43 <andythenorth> it should really be renamed
19:22:10 <Sylf> with nuts, one shouldn't try to use all trains at once
19:22:40 <Alberth> ie buses and trucks :)
19:22:52 <Sylf> nuts is actually very simple if you learn the system behind it
19:23:05 <Alberth> typing "+" in the search box works well :)
19:23:43 <Alberth> nah, unlucky 13 breaks things sufficiently :p
19:35:50 <Alberth> there is a very simple system behind it
19:36:42 <Alberth> you have different classes of engines, you pick the class, and within it, usually the newest engine
19:37:41 <Alberth> but I agree, engine names are quite unique :)
19:39:36 <Alberth> but then again, other sets make engines with names that are mostly numbers foo-2-8-0 foo-2-8-2
19:40:56 <Samu> bool editable = bla bla bla || (config_item.flags & SCRIPTCONFIG_INGAME) != 0; it's here! I can feel it
19:43:19 <Samu> SCRIPTCONFIG_INGAME !=0 means GM_NORMAL, ya?
19:46:53 <Gja> dont reallly see the need of different classes
19:47:26 <Gja> I am happy with the simple normal game with normal rail and trains
19:49:18 <Alberth> freight doesn't need to be fast, but it's heavy so you need something powerful, but that's slow
19:49:47 <Alberth> passengers want to be fast, but are not heavy, so you can use a fast light but less powerful engine
19:50:01 <Gja> I know but that was not my point
19:51:20 <Alberth> what cargo do you transport? if you do only passengers or only freight, you'll always use the same class
19:51:41 <Alberth> so basically you use just a single engine
19:51:58 <Alberth> perhaps for longer distances a second one
19:52:50 <Alberth> but fair enough, ogfx+ grfs will work too
19:53:18 <Gja> I just ind NUTS strange and rather want a basic trainset to start out with as a new player
19:53:46 * andythenorth self-promotes :P
19:53:53 <Alberth> pineapple or iron horse are find if you're into transporting things
19:54:23 <Alberth> if you want to simulate country X, there is likely a train set for that
19:54:49 <Alberth> but they're heavy on the simulation side, rather than nicely playable
20:00:50 <Samu> help me at math! bool editable = false || false & true || false
20:00:56 <Samu> this results in editable = false?
20:02:07 <Alberth> not adding parentheses in mixed || and && expressions is always tricky
20:02:16 <Samu> erm... bool editable = false || true && false || false
20:02:48 <Samu> erm... bool editable = false || (true && false) || false
20:07:30 <Samu> bool editable = false || (true && false) || (false || something_that_makes_this_one_true)
20:07:44 <Samu> guess this is what I gotta do
20:13:33 <andythenorth> is there any viable strategy for incrementally patching something like RoadTypes?
20:13:47 <andythenorth> the RoadTypes enum is used in about 200 places, and I can’t change all 200 before trying a compile
20:14:24 <andythenorth> well 78 places to be strict
20:16:01 <Alberth> my strategy is to first make the solution in any way I can
20:16:19 <Alberth> and only then worry about a nice incrmental path
20:16:36 <frosch123> and certainly don't start with a renaming session :)
20:17:17 <Alberth> if you want to change only a few things between compiles, add new names with existing values, and replace old names with new names, could be a strategy
20:17:25 <frosch123> that only makes changes more complicated, since you are touching a lot of code without a real reason
20:18:05 <Alberth> once you did all places, you can remove the old names
20:18:13 <Alberth> and then change the values
20:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause> #define oldname newname
20:20:33 <andythenorth> I can’t see a way to do it without adding something like RoadTypesNew
20:20:46 <andythenorth> then replacing that later
20:26:27 <Samu> another giant code line created :(
20:26:31 <Samu> bool editable = _game_mode == GM_MENU || ((this->slot != OWNER_DEITY) && !Company::IsValidID(this->slot)) || ((((config_item.flags & SCRIPTCONFIG_INGAME) != 0) || ((this->slot != OWNER_DEITY) && Company::IsValidAiID(this->slot) && Company::Get(this->slot)->ai_instance->IsDead())));
20:27:23 <Samu> though the buttons are shown as clickable, they are, in fact, not clickable when i click on them. what else must i change?
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20:29:41 <andythenorth> this channel seems to currently be home to inept C++ coders :)
20:30:37 <andythenorth> there are two of us at least ;)
20:31:48 <peter1138> i resemble that remark
20:43:35 <peter1138> ah it's just worn...
20:44:19 <peter1138> i don't remember being able to see so many molding marks back in the day
20:48:27 <andythenorth> the inserters are not bad eh?
20:49:49 <andythenorth> whatever they’re called
20:49:57 <andythenorth> I played factorio once
20:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i played the demo a few months back
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21:26:22 <Samu> I play tetris with openttd code
21:26:37 <Samu> that's how I code, cus i barely understand what i'm doing
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23:17:58 <Samu> tried to update, it's slow
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23:36:27 <supermop> a train vehicle normally has 8 sprites, right?
23:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> 4 or 8, depending on symmetry
23:36:47 <supermop> does it need an extra 8 to be flippable?
23:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's shorter than 8/8, then it should have two sets of offsets (but the template could take care of that)
23:37:40 <supermop> i have red lights on one end and white on the other so asymetrical
23:38:13 <supermop> unless headlights/tailights can be switched by some kind of pallette magic?
23:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> basically the reversed vehicle should shuffle around the sprites
23:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use recolouring to change the headlights, yes
23:38:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is probably complicated to set up, if it's not prepared already
23:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> lights should have 3 states: red, white, off
23:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> red lights are only allowed at the end of the train
23:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (because if the train is cut in half, it must be recognizable that some part is missing)
23:41:35 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: In OTTD, wouldn't the lights generally be hidden by the following vehicle anyway?
23:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause> a) that's not the point, and b) no, it can be exposed in curves
23:43:54 <Samu> question: when I am viewing the parameters of an AI slot that suddenly starts, the Reset button to bring back the defaults of that AI, doesn't turn itself off. How can I improve this?
23:44:27 <Samu> sec, let me get a screenshot
23:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so, a single engine should have white/red, an engine at the front should have white/off, an engine in the middle should have off/off and an engine at the end should have off/red
23:48:34 <Eddi|zuHause> (you can check position in chain and total train length (or position from end of chain) to decide the graphics or the recolouring)
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23:52:08 <Samu> before the SimpleAI started, just below the Human player slot, I opened the parameter settings
23:52:44 <Samu> The Reset button on the Parameters window is to be enabled for as long as the SimpleAI does not start
23:53:17 <Samu> but then, since the game was running, SimpleAI started, and the Reset button is still clickable. I want to make it unclickable when the AI starts
23:54:50 <Samu> if I close and open the Parameters window again, the Reset button displays unclickable, as intended
23:59:14 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: if the engine is physically asymetrical, does it need 8 or 16 sprites?
23:59:37 <supermop> assuming player can flip it
23:59:54 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said it, flipping can be handled by the template
continue to next day ⏵
