IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-03-26
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00:01:58 <drac_boy> anyway never mind all of that. what you doing beside irc? :)
00:04:34 <sim-al2> Just little household things, feed the dog, etc
00:05:02 <sim-al2> Yeah, apparently the radiator on those things was do to the very high heat output of the transmission
00:08:14 <drac_boy> if you want a nice example of big cores just look up the GT3
00:08:32 <drac_boy> most of its front was radiator .. and even had to sport some side vents of some sort too
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00:09:19 <drac_boy> tbh it almost looks like a coach carriage vestibule pointing forward if you get me
00:13:42 <sim-al2> Yeah I see what you mean. Those trays along the side are for the starting batteries, complete with vents to allow gases to escape
00:15:07 <sim-al2> The detail drawings say that the large grilles actually house the air intake filters, and not radiators
00:15:29 <sim-al2> Turbines don't really need large radiators, except for oil cooling
00:17:06 <sim-al2> The center of the locomotive housed a large heat exchanger from the exhaust gases to the intake
00:18:25 <sim-al2> Apparently they fit through regular carriage washers. Rather bad conditions for the fireman though
00:18:42 <drac_boy> it was one of these "attempt to be easy for a basic engineer to handle" steam power .. but of course BR wanted nothing to do with steam still
00:18:55 <sim-al2> Not much room for fuel either
00:20:52 <sim-al2> The cab reminds me of a Southern Pacific cab-forward
00:21:10 <drac_boy> well, it would seem one end had nothing but fuel bunker tho .. the actual locomotive was almost only half length
00:21:43 <sim-al2> Except those had the advantage of being oil-fired, so the fireman wasn't in a poor position like earlier cab-forward attempts
00:22:18 <sim-al2> I think these had an offset firebox and boiler too, so that there could be a walkway through
00:22:53 <drac_boy> heh well some uk locomotives did run backward on slower lines but the issue was if the tender was a large one re restricted visibility .. and if it was coal (as usual at the time) talk about coaldust getting into your face too
00:23:12 <drac_boy> best to leave these kind of pulls to a tank locomotive
00:32:05 <sim-al2> Looks almost like a Garrett but with a tender front-end
00:34:54 <drac_boy> if it was a garratt that would had been a 2-4-0+0-4-2, maybe not a well known type anyhow (compared to 0-4-0+0-4-0)
00:38:23 <sim-al2> I know, just the cab-shape and unusual front end
00:38:42 <sim-al2> But a Garrett would look longer, while this looks more like a brick
00:39:22 <sim-al2> Hmm, peat as fuel too... that must have an interesting smell
00:40:34 <drac_boy> note the use of double elephant ears, one is on the water tender body instead while other one is in a more normal position by the stack
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00:44:08 <drac_boy> btw if you want "interesting smell" .. take a guess which amtrak trainset had a smokey kind of french fries smell coming from the roof at both motor ends? :)
00:45:21 <sim-al2> Did they run the turbines on biodiesel at some point?
00:47:10 <sim-al2> I suppose they were desperate to reduce fuel costs...
00:48:10 <sim-al2> ^Yeah, apparently the contractor was rather dismissive of the owner too, just telling her that insurance would help and to prepare for a long legal battle
00:48:20 <drac_boy> well if they didn't like the fuel cost, why not just gut the locomotive shell and either put in diesel power or rather turn the body into baggage/HEP ends to haul with a conventional locomotive instead
00:48:34 <drac_boy> but no apparently they simply sidelined them till they rusted quite a bit
00:48:49 <sim-al2> These designs had some issues
00:49:07 <sim-al2> I think they were already starting to rust by the time they were suppsoed to be replaced
00:49:44 <sim-al2> And their replacements were far more unreliable, with air conditioning problems and all kinds of build-quality issues
00:49:44 <drac_boy> heck even the Talgo trainset in west usa (I forgot which state they run in) used to be a design that didn't have any FRA-sane pushpull mode but now they already have a "cabbage" kind of cab car at one end to make an effective pushpull set
00:50:18 <sim-al2> So much so that Amtrak effectively refused to operate them, and starting using regular locomotive-hauled sets instead
00:50:51 <sim-al2> New York state has been mad at Amtrak for years because of that, but apparently the state didn't want to pay for the fixes either
00:50:53 <drac_boy> as I recall the large cab/windshield was due to mockup testings for trackside visibility among other things
00:51:30 <sim-al2> I think that might be needed because of the size of the nose and the raised position
00:52:08 <sim-al2> The top is probably part of the collision structure too, in case of overturning
00:52:41 <sim-al2> It's pretty ugly tbh, but it replaces the large ex-locomotive that had to be dragged around
00:53:11 <sim-al2> Painting the nose a bit differently would help
00:53:21 <drac_boy> and about NY .. well I imagine its one of these "if you don't like it then pay to get it out" catch-22 .. and amtrak not getting any payment from NY gives us a simple answer to that? :)
00:55:13 <drac_boy> btw the cabbage units amtrak used on other trains weren't that heavy at all when compared to the coach behind them...especially if you had sealed up the fuel tank empty in first place
00:56:13 <sim-al2> It's an ex-F40PH, dragging around a 260,000 lb unit for collision purposes only
00:56:41 <sim-al2> Soley because the first generation Talgos weren't collision-rated here
00:56:48 <drac_boy> one of their issue naturally was the high floor for baggage loading ... but to change that meant spending money modifying things (rather than just simply gut it and stop the budget at that)
00:57:50 <sim-al2> Well, the frame makes it hard too, because the floor of the engine room is right on the top of the frame, and the engine's crankcase has a small well in the middle
00:58:16 <sim-al2> The coaches are pretty light, not more than 110,000 lbs
00:59:10 <sim-al2> The new coaches that Amtrak and others are ordering will also be around that weight, but with full collision rating, even the cabcars
00:59:57 <sim-al2> Dragging around a weight like that for no reason definetly hurts fuel economy
01:00:56 <sim-al2> Oh, you know how the Turboliners entered New York Penn Station?
01:03:28 <sim-al2> They were modified with a traction motor connected to the transmission, that would use third-rail power in the tunnels
01:06:38 <drac_boy> btw just had to look and found one gov-owned pfd, the F40PH is officially quoted as at least 70000lbs total engine/compressor/etc aside to that the trucks (with traction motor still on, not sure if that was so for cabbages too?) were close to 45000lbs
01:06:44 <drac_boy> strangely theres no body or total weight listed
01:07:47 <sim-al2> The engine block weighes around 40000 lbs (V16), so a few thousand more for engine components seems reasonable
01:09:17 <drac_boy> well looks like that leaves about 170000-180000lbs for the cabbage units unless the traction was perhaps also scrapped as well
01:09:27 <sim-al2> I'm pretty sure the weight was replaced with ballast when the mechanical componenets were removed
01:10:16 <drac_boy> the fuel tank being retained seem a bit funny but perhaps had another reason for that ... theres a separate box closer to rear truck for batteries (probably as to keep a flat baggage floor)
01:10:56 <sim-al2> I think they put concrete in the fuel tank
01:11:19 <sim-al2> The battery box was already down there, it needs to be retained for the controls to work
01:14:49 <sim-al2> At the very least, there are weights in the floor that replace the weight that was in the engine compartment
01:15:24 <drac_boy> hm why does that remind me of a somewhat silly story on a rail preservation site ... hired a special mover to move an old ex-commuter coach onto truck for new home ... mover shows up with a single span beam to pick it up and the to-be owner asked about that skinny looking beam to be told to not worry he had done countless moves like this...
01:15:54 <drac_boy> but cue that as soon as the cable took up slack the coach just sat there while the beam literally deformed ... sure scared the mover there :)
01:16:22 <drac_boy> hint: some commuter coach often had lot of weight poured into the floor back then!
01:17:10 <sim-al2> The 6-axles heavyweights were pretty ridiculous, but the 4-axles commuter cars should have been more reasonable
01:17:41 <sim-al2> Of course, still enough to make moving them off-the-rails a challenge
01:19:37 <sim-al2> I still can't find official numbers for the NPCU, but some forum posts say close to 200,000 lbs
01:23:09 <drac_boy> still looking for that thread (I know I'm on the right forum...go figure with that!) one moment :)
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01:28:50 <drac_boy> ah, guess they must have dumped it to some archive. oh well, was a funny story
01:32:11 <drac_boy> oh wait, I found the other one that may not be related but is as funny...
01:36:33 <drac_boy> I always love it when mr.thinksheknowsitall is never 100% right anyway
01:38:00 <sim-al2> Oh man, they had to do it to a Lackawanna MU car too
01:46:17 <drac_boy> funny thing is their layout were well suited to old fashioned diners due to all the booth/bar seats on one side and the windows-boarded-up kitchen on other side .. no wonder it was so popular in some cities
01:48:50 <drac_boy> mind you I think I have seen one that used to be a PCC tram .. figured
01:53:21 <drac_boy> hm *wants to shoot either the web or the useless translator* ... geeze, sometimes its so hard to try find specific stations/railways in foreign languages >_<
01:53:37 * drac_boy at least knows that viaduct is spelled viadukt in switzerland
01:59:41 <Supercheese> Viaduck, quack quack
02:02:58 <drac_boy> either way supercheese and sim-a12 I'm going off for tonight so have fun :)
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06:30:30 <sim-al2> Hokkiado Shinkansen now open
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07:13:53 <Rubidium> sim-al2: but only the first bit ;)
07:14:32 <sim-al2> True, only part of the route
07:14:59 <sim-al2> However, regularly scheduled (non-excursion) locomotive hauled passenger train services in Japan are now gone
07:15:40 <sim-al2> Also, the express service that used to run through the tunnel is now also gone
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07:26:19 <Rubidium> it's kinda the thing with progress
07:28:15 <Rubidium> and night trains are being removed from services all over the world
07:28:37 <sim-al2> Some local passenger services were transferred to a public-private partnership, although the loss of service hasn't been nearly as bad as the other Shinkansen projects in recent years
07:29:56 <sim-al2> Freight services continue through the tunnel, but new electric locomotives are in use since they tunnel is now electrified at 25 kV, 50 Hz, while the old system was 20 kV (also 50 Hz)
07:31:17 <sim-al2> Here in the US, Amtrak's long-distance trains are the only transit avaliable in many small towns, so I think sleeper services are safe here
07:31:51 <Rubidium> in Europe most sleeper services have gone, mostly due to the dirt cheap flights that are available now
07:34:58 <sim-al2> High speed services also take the cake when you have relatively short distances. Also, that's RyanAir.....
07:35:56 <sim-al2> I think that's a reflection of the UK ticket market having gone completely insane, rather than any inate advantage
07:43:21 <Rubidium> so roughly Austin - Houston is cheaper when flying via Kansas City
07:43:52 <sim-al2> Demand pricing leads to some really stupid things
07:44:25 <sim-al2> Of course, it seems that the UK operators are unique in getting away with it
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09:05:09 <_johannes> ok now I know why YAPF is aborting, but it does not make much sense
09:05:13 <andythenorth> is there a quick way to printf a timestamp?
09:05:17 <andythenorth> without importing time and crap
09:06:46 <_johannes> the train is driving into direction south-west, and calculates some cost estimate to a node north-east of it
09:07:21 <_johannes> as it gets more to the south-east-direction, the train calulates higher estimate for this note
09:08:06 <_johannes> then, the train turns around (to the north-east again) and gets lower cost estimate to that north east node
09:08:30 <_johannes> however, the node is already in the closed set, and thus, there should be no lower estimate
09:10:01 <_johannes> andythenorth: date --date @<timestamp-value>
09:10:06 <_johannes> e.g. date --date @1329055200
09:18:04 <_johannes> anyways, to the node problem: the train is at B seeing A (behind itself), giving it some cost estimate and puts it into the closed list. then it moves away from B to C, then comes back to B, sees A *before itself*, giving it a lower estimate
09:18:18 <_johannes> but since A is already in the closed list, a lower estimate is not possible
09:18:26 <_johannes> so this is a bug in YAPF?
09:23:05 <Rubidium> might also be an issue in you configuration w.r.t. the values of the estimates
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09:23:57 <Rubidium> or at least the values that are (eventually) fed into the A* calculations
09:26:44 <_johannes> from how I read the code, the VehicleType parameter to FindPath is not used for position/direction determining, right?
09:27:23 <_johannes> because the only thing that I changed to all existing algorithms was using a different trackdir/tile than the train has
09:27:48 <_johannes> but from looking at the code, I think the position/direction of the vehicle is never queried
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09:54:04 * andythenorth got drivethrough stations working with / without catenary
09:54:21 <andythenorth> and if catenary is present when building, it isn’t removed
09:54:52 <andythenorth> removing of roadstops….not so good yet :P
10:00:27 <andythenorth> also I think the implementation sucks and is janky
10:00:45 <andythenorth> I have to set or clear a specific catenary bit in all the relevant tile types
10:00:56 <andythenorth> and read it when adding / removing / drawing road features
10:01:34 <andythenorth> seems “catenary or not” would just be a property of the type of road
10:02:07 <andythenorth> can I use two bits to store the roadtype, and have four types?
10:09:16 * andythenorth wonders what an ENUM is :P
10:12:09 <Alberth> a collection of numbers, where each number has a name? :)
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10:13:44 <andythenorth> railtypes look like they can produce some proper object, to be used when building / drawing
10:14:04 <andythenorth> whereas ROADTYPE_TRAM and ROADTYPE_ROAD are just a bit which is read every time
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10:15:28 * andythenorth has to do some out-loud thinking in irc, sorry
10:15:47 <Alberth> you don't want to make an object too often
10:16:23 <Alberth> stuff that hooks into path finding is on the critical path
10:17:06 <andythenorth> currently the choice looks like: read two different bits quite often
10:17:11 <Alberth> you don't build very often, so making an object there is ok
10:17:13 <andythenorth> or read two bits, get an object, use that
10:17:27 <andythenorth> but…it’s not that simple
10:17:38 <andythenorth> because the tile potentially has both road and tram on it
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10:18:00 <Alberth> if it is, that could work
10:18:13 <Alberth> s/static/constant/ rather
10:19:01 <andythenorth> out of my depth here :)
10:19:23 <andythenorth> so I think I know the answer
10:19:46 <andythenorth> I _could_ refactor all the existing code to use an object, before I attempt any more of my patch
10:19:58 <andythenorth> or I could do the patch, and have a slightly more spaghetti laden refactoring job later
10:20:15 <andythenorth> given that the patch might suck, and the refactoring isn’t essential
10:20:19 <andythenorth> refactor later :P
10:22:16 <Alberth> I usually first make something that works, and then consider how to do it properly in a second attempt :)
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10:38:47 <frosch123> V453000: "Redo of the train graphics and fixing the train distances, so they are whole tiles and vertical and horizontal distances are the same." <- haha
12:53:36 <Samu> on a dedicated server, what is the command to see if any AI crashed?
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13:09:24 <Wolf01> meh, facebook really wants to make me to sign in... worse than pinterest, at least there I can easily remove the overlay
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13:22:13 <_johannes> how do you close all windows at once in openttd?
13:23:28 <Samu> on a dedicated server, what is the command to see if any AI crashed?
13:23:33 <sim-al2> Shift+Delete will close stickied windows too
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13:56:52 <argoneus> good morning train friends
14:01:09 <Samu> how do i know if an AI crashed?
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14:26:33 <frosch123> it's printed to the server console
14:26:41 <frosch123> don't think you can see that from a client
14:28:33 <Samu> frosch123: there is no command to check AIs that crashed then?
14:29:05 <frosch123> you can save the game and reload
14:29:11 <frosch123> that will also restart the ais afaik
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14:43:31 <Samu> I'm trying to start a server with a GUI but it doesn't work, what can I do? "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\openttd.exe" -v win32 -s win32 -m win32 -b 32bpp-sse4-anim -G -D -I OpenGFX -S OpenSFX -M OpenMSX -c openttdcfgCore1.cfg
14:44:06 <frosch123> likely remove everything except the -c
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14:49:41 <Samu> "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\openttd.exe" -c openttdCore1.cfg it launches TTD to main menu but doesn't start a server
14:50:03 <frosch123> yes, then multiplayer -> start server
14:50:22 <Samu> oh, there's no command line to make it host a server with gui :(
14:50:50 <frosch123> if you have a gui, then you have a gui
14:51:03 <frosch123> if you want to monitor, then send the server console output to a file
14:51:11 <frosch123> the console output contains stuff like ai crashed
14:51:17 <frosch123> at least on decent os
15:11:32 <Samu> do i put that inside autoexec.scr file?
15:13:02 <frosch123> when you start a game with the command above
15:13:29 <Samu> script C:\Users\Ricardo\Documents\OpenTTD\Core1.txt
15:13:30 <frosch123> then start a crappy ai that crashes all the time, like medievalai
15:13:36 <frosch123> does it print something to your start console?
15:13:49 <frosch123> i.e. the one where yuo typed the openttd.exe command?
15:14:23 <Samu> i have them servers start a randomly chosen ai at the moment, not a specific one
15:15:23 <Samu> it printed dictatorai crashed, but as new messages filled in, i could not scroll back, to find which of the servers had the ai that crashed
15:16:08 <frosch123> ok, now start your server with "openttd.exe -D > myserver.txt"
15:16:18 <frosch123> that will create a file "myserver.txt" and write all output to that file
15:16:32 <frosch123> (well, i guess also add the -c in front of the >
15:19:51 <Samu> start /b /affinity 1 start /wait /D "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD" openttd.exe -D -c openttdCore1.cfg > C:\Users\Ricardo\Documents\OpenTTD\Core1.txt
15:22:45 <Samu> meh, not the kind of output I was looking for
15:30:09 <Samu> script C:\Users\Ricardo\Documents\OpenTTD\Core1.txt - typing this in the console works, but i have to type script again to make it update the text file, otherwise it's empty
15:39:12 <Samu> how do I type \ in the gui console version? It closes and open console instead.
15:56:48 <Samu> a bit of help here "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\openttd.exe" -d script=9 -D -c openttdCore1.cfg
15:56:59 <Samu> how do i write it to a file
15:57:25 <frosch123> "> file.txt" at the end
15:57:35 <frosch123> it's a standard console feature, not ottd specific
15:57:38 <frosch123> thus it must be at the end
15:57:59 <Samu> that only prints C:\Users\Ricardo
15:58:42 <frosch123> i got the impression that you use some other tool to start the stuff
15:59:02 <frosch123> so, maybe put the whole ottd command into a .bat file and then use you weird tool to start the bat file
16:02:03 <Samu> Starts a separate window to run a specified program or command.
16:03:25 <frosch123> yeah, but then the ">" applies to "start"
16:03:29 <frosch123> instead of to "openttd"
16:03:40 <frosch123> thus "start" a batch file, and put the ">" inside the bat
16:05:04 <argoneus> I just watched the "new" star wars
16:05:07 <argoneus> I didn't know it was this shit
16:05:11 <argoneus> considering how everyone praised it
16:05:27 <frosch123> it is the same as episode 4 :)
16:05:33 <argoneus> frosch123: except worse
16:05:52 <argoneus> >oh yeah there's this villain who trained with the big shots for years
16:06:00 <argoneus> >oh yeah he's also weaker than this random girl who we forced into the plot
16:06:13 <argoneus> darth vader at least felt relevant
16:06:20 <argoneus> this is anakin all over again
16:06:31 <frosch123> well, it's not darth vader
16:06:39 <frosch123> darth moul was not particulary good either
16:06:46 <Wolf01> corrupted the mirc.ini :E
16:06:50 <frosch123> i think episode 7 is completely equivalent to episode 4
16:07:01 <argoneus> I just dislike how they spit on the lore
16:07:13 <argoneus> where you are supposed to train for years and years to be able to use the force and then craft your own lightsaber and shit
16:07:21 <Flygon__> The first half went well
16:07:25 <argoneus> and then a random girl does it immediately
16:07:25 <Flygon__> Then they cloned the ending...
16:07:28 <frosch123> argoneus: same in episode 4
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16:07:40 <argoneus> frosch123: except Luke was incompetent in episode 4
16:07:42 <argoneus> he had to train with yoda
16:07:50 <frosch123> that is in episode 5 or 6
16:08:02 <argoneus> this girl is stronger than the villain out of nowhere
16:08:03 <frosch123> luke hat no training at all
16:08:10 <frosch123> just obivan was around sometimes
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16:08:21 <argoneus> >the main villain gets beaten in a lightsaber duel with the black guy who was a regular stormtrooper
16:08:40 <Samu> the > file.txt trick doesn't work, i must automate openttd console to execute this line when it starts: script C:\Users\Ricardo\Documents\OpenTTD\Core1.txt
16:08:52 <argoneus> ren should've toyed with them both
16:08:55 <argoneus> and lost due to his arrogance or something
16:08:58 <frosch123> yes? and once he stopped playing and used the force, the trooper lost
16:08:59 <argoneus> except he actually got fucked
16:09:25 <argoneus> also the plot all felt like a huge coincidence
16:09:32 <frosch123> same in episode 4 :p
16:09:45 <frosch123> i think you overrate the other movies :)
16:09:54 <argoneus> the robot getting to a random girl, the black guy finding the random girl, then the two of them randomly finding the millenium falcon (unattended for whatever reason), then they manage to run into han for no reason
16:10:15 <argoneus> also the vast galaxy feels like a small village where you can go house to house within minutes
16:10:25 <argoneus> is the original trilogy really like this?
16:10:36 <argoneus> I remember it as being better
16:11:04 <frosch123> episode 4 is incredible simple
16:11:34 <argoneus> I would've preferred if Rey barely escaped with her life
16:11:46 <argoneus> instead she dominated the guy who supposedly threw over the entire new jedi order
16:12:11 <frosch123> it's not darth vader
16:12:13 <argoneus> he is the reason Luke left
16:12:17 <argoneus> because he did something
16:12:29 <argoneus> I already forget what, if they even said it
16:12:45 <frosch123> luke trained him, and he turned bad, so luke thought he cannot do any good
16:12:58 <frosch123> he did not "beat" luke
16:13:00 <argoneus> so he was presumably still untrained and incompetent?
16:13:15 <frosch123> he will only be darth vader in the next episode
16:13:27 <frosch123> 1) he now is very injured and really needs a helmet
16:13:40 <frosch123> 2) the imperator said he wants to finish his training
16:14:46 <argoneus> I suppose you're right
16:14:54 <frosch123> the whole movie just is about creating a new generation of heroes, which is equivalent to episode 4, plus creating a new darth vader, which is equivalent to episode 2 or 3 (can't remember)
16:14:55 <argoneus> it's been years since I saw ep4
16:15:10 <argoneus> I assume it had the same issues I was talking about, then?
16:15:40 <frosch123> well, episode is 4 is: random people meet up, two of them are siblings without noone knowing
16:16:07 <frosch123> they meet one of the 2 jedi remaining, and they blow up the death start with pure luck
16:16:47 <frosch123> oh, and one of the random guys, has a huge spaceship that outperforms all imperial ships
16:16:59 <frosch123> so, how is that any better? :p
16:23:15 <argoneus> I guess you're right frosch123
16:23:23 <argoneus> this movie is basically a nod to episode 4
16:26:38 <Flygon> I did like Episode 7, btw
16:26:49 <Flygon> But I'm the sort of guy that's both easily entertained and likes more niche films
16:26:54 <frosch123> i also think it was quite ok, the characters were good
16:27:05 <Flygon> I will eat Tacos, Pizza, AND... whatever fancy food is xP
16:31:34 <argoneus> the whole "using the force without training" is still silly
16:31:56 <frosch123> they did not really use the force
16:32:21 <frosch123> and, luke also only got training in episode 3
16:32:31 <Flygon> It'll all be explored in Episode 7: The Quest for More Money
16:32:47 <argoneus> frosch123: pulling items is force
16:32:50 <argoneus> mind control as well
16:33:39 <frosch123> luke also did all that stuff in episode 4 and 5
16:33:51 <frosch123> still darth vader crushed him at the end of episode 5
16:34:08 <frosch123> in episode 7, all are noobs
16:35:01 <frosch123> the villain is the standard looser that you will find in many stories
16:35:11 <Flygon> Episode 7: Just promoted from Novice to Swordsman
16:35:18 <Flygon> Episode 8: Between Job 40-50
16:35:36 <Flygon> Episode 9: We all complain about Gravity printing money off their Rebirth Mechanic
16:36:18 <Flygon> RO used GRFs before they were cool
16:36:25 <Flygon> Srsly tho, I gotta sleep
16:36:36 <Flygon> Night y'all, have gone. You two ave fun. :3
16:53:10 <Samu> i can't get the script command to work
16:53:17 <Samu> it prints only this "file output complete"
16:56:33 <rah> I've just constructed my first monorail loop and put some trains on it but unfortunately they all breakdown very frequently and are making massive losses
16:57:16 <Samu> what does it log to the file? only the crash notice?
16:57:30 <Samu> i got to wait for the ai to crash for it to print something?
16:59:06 <rah> the bhp is not as described in the wiki
16:59:44 <rah> I'm using Pineapple Trains and JRD Standard European Sets newGRFs; would they alter the monorail engines?
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17:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> if you mix two train sets, the prices may be off
17:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> because there is a global price multiplier. so if one expect the multiplier to be low and sets prices high, but the other one expects the multiplier high and sets the prices low, one set's prices will be too low, or the other set's prices too high
17:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> depending on which one was loaded first
17:11:57 <frosch123> that has not been the case for 4 years
17:19:19 <Samu> i typed in the console: "script", then "listais"
17:19:32 <Samu> it prints that, and not the crash or the other messages
17:20:58 <Samu> wait... it printed it now
17:21:56 <Samu> "One of the running scripts crashed. Please report this to the script author with a screenshot of the AI/Game Script Debug Window"
17:22:09 <Samu> too generic, i wanted to know which ai
17:22:13 <Samu> but it printed something
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17:41:32 <andythenorth> you have failed me :(
17:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> news are weird... "hundreds of people agreed to leave Idiomeni"... and in the small print "600 leave, 12000 stay"... that seems to be a huge success
17:54:24 <Samu> why isn't this working... D:\OpenTTD\Core1\openttd.exe -d script=9 -D -c openttdCore1.cfg > D:\OpenTTD\Core1\DebugCore1.txt
17:55:00 <Samu> is it intended that it opens a new console window?
17:55:13 <Samu> shouldn't it use the console I'm currently in
17:56:04 <Samu> then, of course, it doesn't print anything to the .txt file
18:00:21 <andythenorth> roadstops now preserve the catenary when I remove them :P
18:00:32 <andythenorth> openttd code is starting to make sense
18:00:39 * andythenorth pride before a fall eh?
18:03:50 <Wolf01> nah, you fall when you'll start to think about daylength
18:04:40 <Wolf01> if I didn't, maybe I could have added the catenary support for road, avoiding your current work
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18:13:36 <andythenorth> I’ve done road and roadstop, and started tunnelbridge
18:13:44 <andythenorth> drive-in roadstop I think I’ll avoid :P
18:13:48 <andythenorth> what else is there?
18:14:47 <Wolf01> isn't crossing automagically handled?
18:16:22 <andythenorth> not for the new catenary behaviour I’m adding
18:16:50 <andythenorth> all the ‘remove x’ functions have to restore the catenary bit if it was set
18:19:56 <frosch123> Samu: i guess messages like dbg: [script] [5] [S] *FUNCTION [BuildPassStation()] medievalai._/Buses.nut line [257]
18:20:00 <frosch123> which specifies medievalai
18:21:09 <andythenorth> so how much openttd coding is just yak-shaving?
18:22:10 <Samu> yes, i'm trying to log those messages
18:24:33 <andythenorth> most web app coding is yak-shaving
18:24:36 <andythenorth> most newgrf is not
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18:24:48 <andythenorth> newgrf has very little state to worry about :D
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19:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you think yak-shaving is
19:06:13 <andythenorth> matching up functions and parameters
19:06:16 <andythenorth> getting and setting data
19:06:20 <andythenorth> putting vars in scope
19:06:48 <Samu> who's a windows 10 expert?
19:09:33 <monsted> Samu: i'm not sure anyone would admit that
19:10:24 <Samu> dpi settings are getting in the way when launching OpenTTD as a Dedicated Server, there is some upscaling being done in the console text
19:13:20 <Sylf> that doesn't sound like a windows 10 issue
19:14:24 * andythenorth shaved some more yak
19:14:41 <andythenorth> rail crossings restore road catenary when removed
19:14:53 <Samu> what is conhost.exe? when i launch openttd.exe -D, a conhost.exe is also executed alongside
19:15:50 <frosch123> it's not part of openttd
19:17:58 <Samu> google says, Console Window Host
19:18:47 <Wolf01> the windows' console is bad under too many aspects
19:19:28 <Wolf01> I tried to make it support colouring of strings but she always laughed back
19:20:24 <glx> conhost is not new in windows 10
19:24:20 <Wolf01> btw, adding 2 events to handle the progress ring to the feed reader killed me... as always I needed to add an entire framework to the application (service container, services, helpers)
19:24:37 <glx> Wolf01: it should support colouring
19:25:17 <glx> at least console app can output coloured text
19:27:15 <Wolf01> the powershell works well
19:27:59 <Sylf> I still fail to see how that would change anything regard to OTTD dedicated server mode
19:28:13 <Wolf01> and finally is possible to resize the console window without fiddling with the settings
19:28:51 <glx> powershell still uses conhost :)
19:29:11 <Wolf01> also the window transparency
19:30:42 <Wolf01> btw, Samu, are you launching ottd -D from a shortcut? I think you should give a look at the compatibility tab and try to change the DPI related option
19:31:36 <Samu> i am launching it in several manners, trying to find one that works
19:31:48 <glx> and check if the same happen with just cmd
19:32:12 <Samu> launch the shortcut or the exe itself?
19:34:04 <Wolf01> but yes, the ottd output seem to have a different font, but it happened with a lot of softwares, I don't think it's related to the console
19:34:07 <glx> for me openttd console looks the same as cmd
19:34:40 <Samu> they all work, but none lets me do the > file.txt
19:35:57 <glx> hmm no you need to convert to console app first :)
19:36:21 <Samu> it always outputs an empty text
19:36:45 <glx> yes, it's because a new window is created
19:38:03 <Wolf01> usually I don't care :P
19:38:36 <Wolf01> I thought it was changing the desktop's DPI
19:39:36 <Samu> how do i run this convert?
19:39:49 <Samu> convert.exe openttd.exe?
19:40:35 <glx> just run it from openttd.exe location
19:41:11 <andythenorth> bridge construction :(
19:42:10 <glx> it's a toggle, switching from gui to console, or console to gui, depending on the current state of openttd.exe
19:44:28 <Samu> yes, amazing, it is working
19:45:12 <Samu> waiting for the AI to crash
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27526 trunk/src/lang/malay.txt (2016-03-26 19:45:36 +0100 )
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> malay: 2 changes by rionix88
19:47:08 <Samu> bah, sorry, doesn't output the right things
19:47:50 <Samu> Setting dedicated network server settings...
19:48:02 <Samu> file output started to: D:\OpenTTD\Core1\openttdcfgCore1.log
19:49:52 <Samu> openttd -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core1\openttdcfgCore1.log 2>&1 >file.txt
19:50:03 <glx> ok just tried, it works with >file.txt 2>&1
19:50:37 <glx> you'll see nothing in the console when it works
19:51:14 <Samu> openttd -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core1\openttdCore1.cfg >file.txt 2>&1
19:51:52 <glx> if the console stays empty then everything goes in file.txt
19:52:32 <Samu> isn't >>file.txt 2>&1 better?
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20:08:02 * andythenorth can’t see a neat way to pass a road catenary flag to bridge construction
20:10:39 <Wolf01> look at the rail implementation?
20:12:57 <andythenorth> rail catenary comes from railtype
20:13:04 <andythenorth> road catenary is just a flag I’m passing around
20:17:26 <andythenorth> this hack shows some of the tricky things about any theoretical implementation of roadtypes
20:17:44 <andythenorth> if I overbuild road with catenary tramtrack
20:17:48 <andythenorth> then remove the tramtrack
20:18:02 <andythenorth> would that remove the catenary too?
20:18:06 <andythenorth> and what if I’m using it?
20:18:23 <andythenorth> do I have to overbuild again with a road that has catenary?
20:18:29 <andythenorth> or is there some dreadful compatibility table?
20:19:10 <frosch123> don't add a fourth owner :p
20:19:40 <frosch123> company 1 builds road, company 2 build rail crossing, company 3 builds tramway, company 4 adds road catenary
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20:20:12 <frosch123> i guess when upgrading the tram to catenary, you also have to upgrade the road to catenary
20:21:03 <frosch123> otherwise you end up with catenary-only tiles :)
20:21:11 <frosch123> remove road and tram, keep catenary
20:21:26 * andythenorth might have to code that
20:21:29 <frosch123> i guess you could allow electric loan mowers then
20:22:20 <Alberth> trees like to have electric light too :)
20:23:52 <andythenorth> and for the next trick, resurrect the hovercraft patch :)
20:23:59 <Samu> start /b /affinity 1 /D "D:\OpenTTD\Core1" D:\OpenTTD\Core1\openttd.exe -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core1\openttdCore1.cfg >> D:\OpenTTD\Core1\openttdCore1.log 2>&1
20:24:51 <Wolf01> <frosch123> otherwise you end up with catenary-only tiles :) <- trolleybuses
20:25:08 <andythenorth> hover-trolleybuses
20:25:15 <andythenorth> off-road trolleybuses :P
20:25:48 <frosch123> howercraft with catenary?
20:26:21 * andythenorth has some evil idea
20:26:51 <andythenorth> for catenary-only tiles, patch the drawing routine, and draw trails :P
20:27:01 <andythenorth> and use the absence of road to split the vehicle types
20:28:17 <andythenorth> maybe not evil enough :x
20:30:57 <andythenorth> new flag on newgrf vehicles - catenary only :P
20:42:35 <Samu> affinitizes each openttd to one core
20:42:50 <Samu> and it works! all in 1 window, though
20:43:11 <Samu> question is... how should i stop the servers?
20:43:28 <Samu> it won't de-list them from the master server
20:44:58 <Samu> oh, it's a .cmd file, not .bat, sorry
20:45:41 <Samu> does that send something to master server?
20:45:47 <Samu> tell them i am no longer hosting?
20:46:18 <glx> I don't think there's a packet for that
20:46:41 <Samu> there is a console command: exit
20:46:49 <Samu> but, i have all consoles in 1 window now
20:48:06 <Samu> hmm i got to type exit 8 times for each openttd
20:48:16 <Samu> in which order does it exit?
20:48:37 <Samu> damn it ill check it myself
20:53:06 <Samu> ok, it exits in the opposite order they were launched
20:53:28 <Samu> first exit, closes server 8, the next closes server 7, etc...
20:54:07 <Samu> the last exit closes command prompt
20:55:31 <Samu> i guess start /b might be a bad idea
20:55:50 <Samu> if i want to close a particular server, i won't be able to
20:56:11 <Alberth> can't just kill the process?
20:57:21 <glx> anyway the only important thing done when exiting cleanly is autosave at exit if enabled
20:57:32 <Alberth> I mean though task manager, or process manager or whatever its name is
21:02:51 <Samu> dbg: [net] [udp] removing advertise from master server
21:03:04 <Samu> this shows when i type exit
21:20:15 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest9269
21:20:15 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01
21:25:00 <argoneus> how are my train friends doing
21:25:44 <Wolf01> and tomorrow I would like to stay all day on my own... but no, it seem to be EASTER again :(
21:34:50 <Alberth> at least the day is one hour shorter :)
21:35:45 <Wolf01> it would be really cool if I'll be able to ignore some days ;)
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22:30:04 <Samu> aha, i finally managed this
22:32:00 <Samu> i need a master batch that starts other batches
22:32:37 <Samu> i'll show you, let me just finish edit them all
22:44:49 <Samu> when i launch OpenTTDServers.cmd, i get all 8 windows running, one for each server, and each one is logging the correct stuff to their own log file
22:45:58 <Samu> i couldn't do it with 1 batch only because it was getting stuck on the first server, until i exited it, to start the 2nd server, etc
22:46:52 <Samu> only with start /b i could run all servers using only 1 batch file, but then i couldn't differentiate between them, they were all in 1 window
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22:55:05 <Samu> i remember using that for some other crap i was messing with
22:55:17 <Samu> not openttd related at all
22:56:32 <Samu> found it, it was for 7-zip
22:56:38 <Samu> for %%x IN (9) DO for %%t IN (2 1) DO for %%d IN (512m) DO for %%w IN (273 256 192 128 96 64 48 32 24 16 12 8) DO for %%s IN (on) DO 7z.exe a teste.resultado\%%xx.lzma.%%tt.%%dd.%%ww.%%s.7z .\teste.original\* -mx=%%x -ms=%%s -m0=LZMA:d=%%d:fb=%%w -mmt=%%t
22:57:32 <Samu> it gave me a headache and never finished the project
22:59:37 <Samu> i wanted 7-zip to run for as long as the last parameters used and the next parameters wouldn't go over 8 GB RAM usage or 8 core usage
23:03:57 <Samu> i had variables inside variables, it was a huge mess
23:18:48 <Samu> how do i put a different window title for each server?
23:19:26 <Samu> instead of "OpenTTD Dedicated Server" in the title, can i put "Core1"?
23:44:27 <glx> START ["titre"] [/D chemin] [/I] [/MIN] [/MAX] [/SEPARATE | /SHARED]
23:55:38 <glx> that's because openttd set the title
23:58:12 <Samu> seems i can't start 15 AIs
23:58:30 <Samu> only 14, with the 15th one being forced via console
23:58:38 <Samu> why's that? it's a dedicated server
continue to next day ⏵
