IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-03-05
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00:45:31 <Salamander> 18:13:36 Salamander | Question about a station's coverage area: should the coverage area cover all tiles of an oil field for example, or is it enough that it covers one of them?
00:45:34 <Salamander> 18:14:09 Salamander | i.e. will there be a difference in available product at the station if it covers all of an oil plant's tiles vs just one of them?
00:45:37 <Salamander> 18:15:30 frosch123 | industry->station requires one tile, station->industry requires some specific tiles
00:45:40 <Salamander> 18:15:36 frosch123 | the build station gui will tell you
00:45:51 <Salamander> unfortunately for me I'm not clear on the answer
00:46:13 <Supercheese> so, if you want to pick up oil from oil wells, *any* tile within station catchment is fine
00:46:37 <Supercheese> but if you want to drop off oil to a refinery, you need *certain* tiles of the refinery within catchment
00:46:47 <Supercheese> yes, they will give the same oil
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00:56:24 <Salamander> been some 10 years since my last game
00:56:30 <Salamander> i suppose i should RTFM
00:57:31 <Supercheese> to be fair, details like that are scattered and not necessarily easy to find
00:57:59 <Supercheese> there's quite a bit of esoteric "veteran knowledge"
00:58:00 <Salamander> how does truck filling frequency affect supply capacity?
00:58:13 <Salamander> i.e. should i send 5 or 10 or 15 trucks to pick up oil?
00:58:54 <Supercheese> the rule for that is you should try to always have one vehicle loading, and right when it fills up and leaves, the next vehicle behind it just arrives and begins loading
00:58:59 <Supercheese> but that's tricky to get juuuust right
00:59:14 <Supercheese> so you can get away with having an extra vehicle or two to ensure one is always loading
00:59:38 <Supercheese> you never want to have lots of cargo waiting
00:59:38 <Salamander> what about the choice of vehicle - truck or train or boat
00:59:43 <Salamander> is there a manual for that?
00:59:49 <Supercheese> yeah there is some wiki info
01:00:08 <Salamander> and how does distance affect profit?
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01:00:30 <Supercheese> there's an in-game graph for that
01:00:35 <Supercheese> Cargo Payment Rates
01:00:57 <Salamander> i.e. what is the distance in tiles within which i shoud use trucks, trains or ships?
01:01:02 <Supercheese> or hmm does that factor in distance...
01:01:05 <Salamander> great, i'll read what i can first then
01:01:43 <Supercheese> with default vehicles, trucks should only be used for short distances, they just don't have the capacity for long hauls
01:01:53 <Supercheese> of course newgrf sets can change that
01:02:39 <Salamander> and if i have an oil field and a oil refinery close to each other, and another set of oil refinery + oil well some 100 or 200 tiles away, should i send trucks between each which are close to each other, or should i send trains between those 100 or 200 tiles away?
01:03:11 <Supercheese> if you want maximum profit, use trains and go long-distance
01:03:22 <Supercheese> but profit is easily acquired, so you can really choose which you like better
01:03:27 <Salamander> what about ships? i was never big on ships
01:03:36 <Salamander> but now im older and i feel adventurous :)
01:03:37 <Supercheese> many choices are "do whichever you like best"
01:04:02 <Supercheese> because profit is so easily acquired, many people build for aesthetics and fun rather than efficiency
01:04:18 <Supercheese> although those needn't be mutually exclusive either
01:04:25 <Salamander> i am cursed, i derive fun from efficiency :(
01:04:58 <Supercheese> Indeed, they can certainly go hand in hand
01:05:08 <Salamander> is there a way to know how much maximum a source will produce if i keep sending vehicles to stock up, before i start doing that?
01:05:37 <Salamander> e.g. how much oil i can pick up at an oil well, before i send in trucks or trains to pick it up?
01:08:22 <Supercheese> for default oil wells, the industry window will show you the maximum production per month -- they will never exceed this, but may decrease below it
01:08:31 <Supercheese> other industries can increase, but oil wells do not
01:08:42 <Supercheese> an odd quirk of the game
01:08:59 <Salamander> industry window you say
01:09:07 <Supercheese> click the oil wells
01:11:10 <Salamander> ooh i was checking the wrong thing - the depot
01:11:25 <Salamander> so the depot will never go below 40k liters in this case
01:12:19 <Salamander> and one last question for the day
01:12:39 <Salamander> if i created 5 vehicles, then set orders for the first one, can i somehow copy those orders to the others?
01:13:19 <Salamander> i know i can do that before i buy them, but if i already bought them can i do it afterwards?
01:14:07 <Supercheese> yes, open the orders menu for the other vehicle(s) then choose Go To and ctrl+click on the vehicle whose orders are already set
01:14:25 <Supercheese> that will copy and share the orders between the two vehicles
01:15:34 <Salamander> ok i lied, there is actually one more question
01:15:39 <Supercheese> the wiki has little tricks like that buried
01:16:11 <Salamander> there are two new orientations now, at least for truck stations
01:16:26 <Salamander> they look like some sort of pass-through stations
01:16:30 <Salamander> what is the purpose of those?
01:17:28 <Supercheese> their primary purpose is to accomodate certain newgrf vehicles that cannot use the other types of road stops
01:17:52 <Supercheese> they also enable building bus stops deep in towns without having to bulldoze
01:18:02 <Supercheese> among other things
01:30:31 <Salamander> thank you so much Supercheese
01:30:39 <Supercheese> You're most welcome
01:31:12 <Salamander> this game should be mandatory in contemporary schools :P
01:31:34 <Salamander> need sleep now, good night
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02:25:50 <drac_boy> little non-game topic: how often could a steam locomotive (sorry, we're going ignore the short 0-4-0 variety tho) that had a simple straight boiler aka no tapering or anything?
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03:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> did that sentence make any sense to anybody?
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09:01:38 <V453000> hm x16 zoom would be useful for debugging x4
09:11:26 <V453000> andythenorth: ever did offsets at 4 am in the morning?
09:11:34 <V453000> it's better than usual
09:11:53 <andythenorth> I don’t remember anything from those times, except the pain
09:12:05 <V453000> then you remember everything
09:13:51 <andythenorth> I used to do dumb stuff, like walk into door frames and so on
09:15:13 <greeter> walking into doors is dumb? oh dear...
09:17:55 <V453000> haha my vehicles on straight tracks fit the bounding boxes
09:20:15 <V453000> aliigning x4 zoom is so bullshit that I even resided to using bounding boxes
09:24:14 <andythenorth> I had to stop drinking tea when I had babies
09:24:21 <andythenorth> I drank so much I lost the taste
09:25:45 <V453000> do babies taste like tea?
09:30:22 <V453000> let's try to make all offsets at x4 divide-able by 5
09:38:15 * andythenorth makes all railcars 8/8
09:38:18 <andythenorth> for tidy stations
09:38:37 <V453000> your sanity just progressed :P
09:39:00 <andythenorth> railcar != wagon :P
09:39:11 <andythenorth> these bus-on-rails things
09:43:06 <andythenorth> shame 16/3 isn’t a nice round number
09:43:21 <andythenorth> I could do 3 units in a 1 tile articulated train
09:43:43 <andythenorth> 5/6/5 isn’t worth it
09:44:19 * andythenorth must take child #1 to football
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10:43:51 <_johannes> I have the graph exporter now in a first useful version
10:44:08 <_johannes> has someone a C++ compiler and a medium or large map in order to test it?
10:46:00 <_johannes> a C++ compiler is not required if you trust me that I don't send you a virus ;)
11:00:32 <greeter> hmm, i have a c++ compiler, but i'm not sure about the other
11:08:29 <_johannes> greeter: which OS, and which version is your compiler?
11:09:26 <greeter> ubuntu 15.10 64 bit. i'll get more details in a moment
11:09:51 <_johannes> that should be sufficient :)
11:10:10 <greeter> gcc version 5.2.1 20151010 (Ubuntu 5.2.1-22ubuntu2) (a ton of compiler switches though. i'll need to pastebin those)
11:11:34 <_johannes> that should work , no need for the switches
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11:11:50 <_johannes> I'll extend the README a bit and send it to you soon
11:12:40 <greeter> to be honest, i'm rather heavily intoxicated, you may need to smack me several times, sorry :-S
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11:13:22 <_johannes> haha intoxicated with alcohol? :P
11:13:22 <greeter> i'm willing to compile source code though if need be
11:13:37 <greeter> oh yeah... the room is spinning rather rapidly
11:18:34 <greeter> back, sorry about the delay, i fell down the stairs twice
11:20:14 <_johannes> can you run "dot" in a shell? what does it say?
11:20:40 <greeter> The program 'dot' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
11:20:40 <greeter> sudo apt-get install graphviz
11:20:47 <greeter> i'll install it if need be
11:22:21 <_johannes> greeter: yes, it's currently required
11:22:44 <greeter> ok, i'll try installing it now. if other installation instructions are required, please let me know
11:23:35 <greeter> hmm. i'm fetching 12.4 Mb of data right now, but i'll check that file
11:24:31 <greeter> it installed before i could read it. so what's next?
11:24:57 <_johannes> what do you mean by the last sentence?
11:25:40 <greeter> i installed a package called graphviz, taking up an additional 12.4 megs of data, before i could read the file you showed me
11:26:25 <greeter> anyhow, what needs to be done now?
11:27:00 <greeter> as a heads up, if i shouldn't have gotten this far now, don't worry about it. after all, if i shouldn't have gotten this far before, why am i this far now?
11:27:44 <greeter> cloning into a directory. because i'm on slow internet, this may take a while
11:28:29 <_johannes> I'd like to find out if the README is self-explanatory
11:28:40 <greeter> the git link you gave me is currently 14 percent done, so this may take a long time :-S
11:29:12 <_johannes> the progress bar sometimes jumps up many percents at once, don't worry
11:29:48 <greeter> it looks to me like the total download size is approximately 175 megabytes
11:30:04 <greeter> that will take me some time to fetch
11:30:36 <greeter> i'm willing to fetch it, just saying that i'm on a really slow connection, so it may take some time
11:31:25 <greeter> or i may be misreading this and finding out that it's actually fetching at 186 kilobtytes per second, therefore not taking long :-S
11:31:55 <greeter> do i need to remove previous installations of openttd?
11:33:20 <_johannes> have you ever installed/compiled programs on linux?
11:33:34 <greeter> i've compiled numerous programs
11:33:49 <greeter> i have cloned the repo. what do i do now?
11:34:10 <_johannes> go into the directory you've cloned it
11:34:13 <greeter> i have cd'd into OpenTTD
11:34:30 <_johannes> then: CC=clang CXX=clang++ ./configure --prefix=/where/you/want/to/install/it --enable-debug=3
11:34:53 <_johannes> (I have installed it in /home/johannes/cprogs/openttd/install or something)
11:35:07 <greeter> i'll run the first one
11:35:38 <greeter> the CC environment variable is set, but it doesn't seem to be a gcc binary
11:35:38 <greeter> please redefine the CC/CXX environment to a gcc binary'
11:36:02 <Xaroth|Work> the page pretty much shows step-by-step what to do
11:36:51 <_johannes> greeter: you can also use CC=gcc CXX=g++ ...
11:37:06 <greeter> i seem to be a bit lost i'm afraid :-S i'm sorry. i'll try that though
11:37:43 <_johannes> ah np, either do that or install "clang" on ubuntu, it's both ok
11:38:14 <greeter> i'm afraid i'm a bit behind on the times. is clang a script argument?
11:38:29 <_johannes> it's another compiler like gcc
11:39:32 <greeter> hmm... i'm sorry, i'm afraid i'm totally lost. would it help if i gave you the command i was using?
11:40:30 <greeter> ok, the command i fed it was this: CC=clang CXX=clang++ ./configure --prefix=/where/you/want/to/install/it --enable-debug=3
11:40:47 <_johannes> try "clang" in commandline, is it installed?
11:40:49 <greeter> and i got the following 4 lines
11:40:50 <greeter> checking build system type... clang unusable
11:40:50 <greeter> the CC environment variable is set, but it doesn't seem to be a gcc binary
11:40:50 <greeter> please redefine the CC/CXX environment to a gcc binary
11:41:09 <greeter> it says clang is not currently installed
11:41:17 <_johannes> ok greeter , just try CC=gcc CXX=g++ ./configure --prefix=/where/you/want/to/install/it --enable-debug=3
11:41:26 <_johannes> (whatever you prefer)
11:41:37 <greeter> i'll try to install clang
11:42:06 <greeter> it says i need to get 212 megs of data. this could take some time :-S sorry
11:42:15 <_johannes> ok then just use gcc
11:42:23 <_johannes> that should also work
11:42:33 <greeter> after grabbing the needed data?
11:42:50 <_johannes> no, I mean, if you don't want to way that long
11:43:00 <_johannes> then don't get clang, use gcc: CC=gcc CXX=g++ ./configure --prefix=/where/you/want/to/install/it --enable-debug=3
11:43:22 <greeter> well i seem to be getting the data
11:45:05 <greeter> i'll figure this one out
11:45:17 <_johannes> ok, if you have difficulties, just ask
11:46:21 <greeter> well i'm just fetching. wait till compilation :-P
11:47:06 <greeter> configure: error: no video driver development files found
11:47:17 <greeter> i have a fairly modern system. how can i fix this?
11:47:29 <_johannes> oh good question...
11:48:25 <greeter> i'll download the required files but i am a bit pressed for time :-S
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11:49:23 <_johannes> hmm I really have no idea what that error means :(
11:49:38 <_johannes> what are you downloading? clang
11:50:16 <greeter> oh dear :-S hmm... well to be honest, i'm not sure... i'm rather intoxicated at this point :-S
11:51:43 <_johannes> try installing libsdl1.2-dev"
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11:55:51 <greeter> configured with the switch "--without-liblzo2"
11:56:07 <_johannes> that should be fine
11:56:28 <_johannes> so if you configured successfully, try make and then make install
11:56:43 <_johannes> ok good, that can take
11:57:05 <greeter> it's compiling the files :-D
11:58:17 <_johannes> do you compile with gcc or clang?
11:58:48 <greeter> to be honest, i'm not sure what is being used
12:00:26 <greeter> currently i'm listening to ann margret singing a song for the flintstones. i'm out of it enough to think that i have no idea where on earth this train of thought this is going
12:00:57 <_johannes> ok pls let me know when you've done "make install"
12:13:21 <_johannes> greeter: how far is it?
12:13:42 <_johannes> you can also abort and try make -j <number of cores you have>
12:14:14 <greeter> linking seems to be done. i'll try make
12:15:05 <greeter> hmm, i can't seem to make it work right now. i'll bbl
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13:33:56 <Wolf01|Phone> Trains here are wonderful :D
13:34:22 <Alberth> we need a video link, or pictures :p
13:34:59 <Alberth> visiting a museum or so?
13:35:46 <Wolf01|Phone> Right now I'm in hotel, its 21.35 now
13:36:56 <Wolf01|Phone> But I visited some temples and palaces in Kobe, Osaka, Nara and now I'm in Kyoto
13:39:03 <Wolf01|Phone> The railways are built a bit strange, they have 2 or 3 different railways for different operators for the same route, usually built at 100-200 meters of distance
13:39:22 <Wolf01|Phone> It really looks a waste of space
13:39:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if there's anything the japanese have plenty of, it's space... oh, wait.
13:42:01 <Wolf01|Phone> It's really cool that everything works like a metro, trains every 3-5 minutes and metro EMUs everywhere
13:43:57 * andythenorth was going to post
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13:46:10 <Wolf01|Phone> Mmh stupid irc client
13:47:35 <Wolf01|Phone> Also I've seen the longest suspended bridge, it's really huge
13:48:55 <Wolf01|Phone> What do you achieved this week? Made some pixels?
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13:51:20 <Wolf01|Phone> Eheh, I know the Tokyo's railways, I'm studying them because I'm moving there in 2 days
13:56:39 <Wolf01|Phone> Ok boys, I'll leave soon, we'll see again in a week, or sooner if I'll be able to connect in decent hours ;)
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13:57:26 <andythenorth> bye Wolf01|Phone
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14:21:02 * andythenorth must sell some trains
14:21:06 <andythenorth> but maybe not today
14:24:41 <_johannes> If a train goes from station A to B via a depot, would you say that the connection A->B should be drawn in a route network?
14:25:08 <_johannes> in reality, trains don't go to depots when they have passengers inside...
14:26:39 <_johannes> on the other hand, some game player may have games where A->B is only reachable via a depot?
14:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably handle that case
14:28:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also, conditional orders and stuff
14:29:06 <_johannes> you mean that A->depot->B should be drawn as a usual route?
14:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> consider this case: player has turning around in stations disabled, and puts depots at the end of the platform, with "goto A; goto B" orders. the trains will always go to depot
14:31:33 <_johannes> also... do many player use depots as waypoints, or is it more likely to use waypoints as waypoints?
14:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you should really not concern yourself with "which one do more players do". if the game mechanics allow it, someone will do it.
14:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you should take the compiler construction approach here: it doesn't matter if the specs make sense. you implement them letter by letter.
15:04:42 <fonsinchen> _johannes: You might check how cargodist does that. I've solved the exact same problem when doing the link prediction
15:04:50 <fonsinchen> You can just use that code.
15:21:40 <_johannes> fonsinchen: What problem have you solved there?
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15:43:15 <Alberth> sequence of stations visited by a train, would be my guess
15:43:35 <Alberth> since you need that to route cargo
15:46:26 <_johannes> ah, that problem is already solved
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15:57:51 <drac_boy> hi mr.trainnut? hehe
16:04:20 <drac_boy> btw have I ever told you that I sometimes just don't understand some of the uk steam locomotives especially for having so few drivers etc?
16:04:50 <sim-al2> 2-2-2 seems especially suspect
16:05:01 <sim-al2> *Welcome to SLIP CITY*
16:06:21 <sim-al2> You basically have to do that on tank locomotives though, that's probably a suburban design
16:06:53 <drac_boy> well the 0-6-0T were used in a lot of pushpull and never had any issues, and thats 100% drivers :)
16:07:20 <drac_boy> not to mention the 'ducks' handling these autocoaches as well
16:07:20 <sim-al2> Those locomotives had to run full speed in either direction, so the support axle helps there
16:07:40 <sim-al2> 0-6-0 isn't particularly stable at speed though
16:08:11 <sim-al2> Hence the popularity of 2 and 4 wheel pilot trucks
16:08:34 <drac_boy> well they somehow ran them a lot tho which is all I can seem to say, especially a 0-6-0T terrier sharing the line with a mallard 0_o
16:09:32 <drac_boy> admittly these drowsy looking freight 0-6-0 tenders ended up on local passenger trains a few times early on, not sure what anyone thought there
16:09:52 <drac_boy> at least as they were local I guess they probably only had branch speeds to contend with
16:11:03 <sim-al2> Yeah, branch lines often didn't have especially high scheduled speeds in that era
16:13:59 <drac_boy> I forgot the nickname a magazine mentioned for these but it started with "big ____" something (doesn't surprise me seeing how there was the Big Bertha itself after all)
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16:17:39 <drac_boy> mind you if you want something thats built to just go slow all the times, try a 0-4-0 with optional small water saddle and otherwise an equally-as-long-as-the-loco-itself little coal tender behind :)
16:17:49 <drac_boy> the ffestington line not surprisingly had a few exactly like that
16:20:09 <sim-al2> Hmm, that tender looks more like a mine cart
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16:21:08 <drac_boy> yeah 2-axle tenders were sometimes a bit more crude than usual
16:21:58 <drac_boy> in some instances it really used to be a 0-4-0T with small bunker but someone wised up and torch out the rear and throw a built-up flatcar or stripped down mineral car behind it to carry much more coal instead
16:22:13 <drac_boy> (even usa did that for their industrial lines a long time ago too)
16:25:22 <sim-al2> One of the LSWR Class 415 4-4-2Ts was used for almost 50 years on a small branchline whose curves prevented larger locomotives from operating
16:26:23 <sim-al2> Sorry, two. They were built in the mid-1880's, and one became the last surviving member of the class, long enough to be preserved
16:26:41 <drac_boy> no 0-6-0T with lateral motion? but hm actually you remind me of a different story which I recall was even in uk too...
16:27:08 <sim-al2> They eventually fixed the curves so that 2-6-2T's could run
16:27:23 <sim-al2> But the branch line closed 4 years later, in 1965
16:27:35 <drac_boy> one branchline had a rather low tunnel under road or something to that effect where it couldn't be daylighted or so ... and the few locomotives assigned to stay on this line had their cab roof literally chopped down a bit which explained why they outlasted the conventional versions which were scrapped a long time ago
16:28:18 <drac_boy> the line finally closed which bought the end of needing these "low height" locomotives, all scrapped a short time later
16:31:48 <sim-al2> It's the Lyme Regis branch line, sufiiciently steep and curved enough that both engines needed to pull the six coach trains
16:31:53 <drac_boy> btw I can't recall which class it was but there was one fleet of larger tank locomotives that were often used for suburban duty too .. story was that one was to be sent to the works for gauge cutdown as to be shipped to an island railway but this never happened and eventually the locomotive was moved to another shed before it finally got preserved and in that case it finally had its first coal-steamup test last year
16:32:07 <sim-al2> The later 2-6-2Ts could do it with one engine though
16:32:14 <drac_boy> wonder what kind of gauge work would had been required had it actually been carried out!
16:35:04 <drac_boy> (because with the tank locomotive there doesn't seem to be a lot you can really do about clearance, even the cab roof is almost touching the boiler's top too on some classes)
16:40:16 <drac_boy> always did find it a bit unique for re having no tender which one normally always expect
16:41:18 <sim-al2> Seems that fuel could be a problem, but.... damn, haven't seen a streamlined tank before
16:43:42 <drac_boy> well fuel wasn't an issue when it was basically kinda like a "kangaroo" route, that is hop fast between only a few major points
16:51:18 <drac_boy> btw I'm not sure but I suspect it was designed for bidirectional running as otherwise why else would they had wrapped the coal bunker in a round curve?
17:17:54 <drac_boy> either way have fun with whatever else you might had been doing..I'm going for now mainly re food
17:19:03 <_johannes> hmm just found out that you can have multiple trains in one group, even if they have different order lists
17:19:33 <_johannes> it even makes sense, but is there a way to assign one common order to all trains in one group?
17:28:31 <Alberth> but I never use groups, so I am not terribly interested in its capabilities
17:29:48 <_johannes> hmm I find the feature practical for naming trains
17:30:07 <_johannes> the group is displayed above each train
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17:37:11 <Alberth> ah, never give trains a name
17:37:30 <Alberth> I just buy enough until all cargo gets moved :)
17:54:20 <Hiddenfunstuff> too much of micromanagement of naming trains and grouping them
18:19:42 <Alberth> depends on how you play the game
18:20:33 <Alberth> if you model a real company if full detail, it fits your game play
18:21:09 <Alberth> if you just build tracks and move cargo, it doesn't fit (imho)
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18:53:48 <Dakkus> Alberth: I kind of like giving train lines names. But giving individual names is pointless, because each train already has an unique identifier.
18:55:33 <Alberth> Ha, that's a new one, but I can see it could be useful
18:57:07 <Dakkus> There even a mechanism for that.
18:57:23 <Dakkus> Create a new train group, drag one of the trains into that.
18:58:13 <Dakkus> Then choose that group and in the drop-down menu in the bottom of the screen choose "All trains with shared orders"
18:58:29 <Dakkus> Then give the groups ome shortish identifier.
18:59:50 <Dakkus> Especially since I like to play with a maximum size map and very low population density, I end up having very important long trunk lines with up to 30 train consists serving one line.
19:00:19 <Dakkus> (Also, my daylengthfactor is set to 9)
19:02:20 <Dakkus> In the last 20 years I've gotten totally fed up with 90% of the map being covered by a single continuous railway intersection.
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19:04:00 <Dakkus> For the record, OTTD was the third game I ever bought in my life.
19:04:01 <Alberth> I tend to get very much lost at large maps
19:04:07 <rapower> hi all Somthimes on ubuntu openttd does not save the game
19:04:27 <rapower> its so frustrating if you load the old one and see 1gameyear ore more lost
19:04:41 <Alberth> Dakkus: I hope you mean TTD, OpenTTD is free :)
19:05:03 <Dakkus> rapower: I'm far from an expert but that sounds very much like what has been complained to be idiotic behaviour n the ext4 filesystem.
19:05:51 <rapower> i save at every year pop up
19:06:10 <rapower> and it worked well for 15game years now it missed up at 16
19:06:42 <rapower> there is 60GB free space
19:07:25 <rapower> Alberth: 512x512 is best to play
19:08:05 <Alberth> I usually play 256x512, or 512x512
19:08:21 <Alberth> 128x1024 can be fun too :)
19:08:21 <Dakkus> rapower: No fanciness such as user quotas on your system?
19:08:43 <Alberth> no space for trains, really :)
19:08:50 <rapower> workes fine here Dakkus in standard mode
19:09:12 <rapower> ok i see thats a known problem i got to live with
19:09:35 <Dakkus> Hmm, googled it? Interesting. A known problem in what?
19:09:38 <rapower> its triggy if you hit the 500 train mark
19:09:59 <Dakkus> I've got some 60 at the moment.
19:10:38 <rapower> i set the limits to 500 more cool playing to get free trains on piling stock
19:11:04 <rapower> ok im off GN8 late in germany
19:11:08 <Dakkus> When you play with the x-USSR set you have to pile stok :D
19:11:31 <Dakkus> It's 20:11 in Ukraine.
19:12:16 <Alberth> depending on how early to need to get up tomorrow I guess :)
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19:12:39 <Dakkus> Yeah, but it's only a bit later than 19 in Germany.
19:12:58 <Dakkus> I'm scared of perverts such as them!
19:13:18 <Dakkus> I remember when I crossed a stae border on the motorway in Germany.
19:14:04 <Dakkus> And it said "Der Land der Frühaufsteher" ("The land of the early-wake-upper")
19:14:24 <Dakkus> I don't want to see that monster, so it's a good thing the sign warns of it. But it was still a shock!
19:15:03 <Dakkus> There's of course the positive thing that it's a danger only half a day. After the first half of the time I'm awake, it's already sleeping.
19:16:42 <Alberth> Hmm, I feel I must warn you, I get up early too :)
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19:30:21 <_johanne1> what is the encoding for openttd strings?
19:31:44 <Alberth> but you're using the web interface right?
19:32:07 <_johanne1> I just grep strings from savegames
19:32:27 <Alberth> there are even strings there?
19:32:38 <Alberth> it's mostly binary data, compressed
19:33:13 <_johanne1> not directly, but there are numbers for cargo, and in the sources, there are strings for what the numbers mean
19:33:23 <_johanne1> I export these strings with the graph exporter
19:34:43 <Alberth> hmm, wouldn't that fail with newgrf industries? unless you mean amounts of cargoes, I guess
19:36:13 <_johanne1> what I mean is "oil", "passengers" etc
19:36:33 <_johanne1> for most of my games, there are only ~ 10 cargoes ever transported
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19:42:33 <Alberth> play a game with FIRS :)
19:43:11 <Alberth> but then the industry newgrf defines the cargoes, and with it all strings
19:43:34 <Alberth> you only keep the 4 letter identification I think
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27521 trunk/src/lang/malay.txt (2016-03-05 19:45:38 +0100 )
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> malay: 5 changes by rionix88
19:46:00 <_johanne1> languages really suck
19:46:10 <_johanne1> why can not all people speak the same language?
19:46:29 <_johanne1> setlocale() does not have any effect
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19:46:44 <Alberth> they can, if only we would agree on which language that would be
19:47:21 <Alberth> and then you have the "minor" problem that some languages have concepts that do not exist at all in other languages
19:47:55 <Alberth> eg people in greenland have lots of words for different forms of snow and ice
19:48:17 <Alberth> I think people living in the desert have a lot less of such words :)
19:50:16 <Alberth> I don't know what you're doing, but save games do not contain much text, unless you mean text of eg trains that you gave a name
20:04:49 <_johanne1> Alberth: I don't know either :)
20:05:51 <_johanne1> my program just did output the cargo names from STR_JUST_CARGO_LIST , but some German letters are looking wrong
20:06:11 <planetmaker> but wth are you trying to do?
20:06:30 <_johanne1> SetDParam(0, 1 << carg->Index()); GetString(buf, STR_JUST_CARGO_LIST, lastof(buf)); file.cargo_names.insert(std::make_pair(carg->Index(), buf));
20:06:40 <planetmaker> why grep the savegame for strings when you get them from the source code of all related programmes and NewGRFs?
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20:07:06 <_johanne1> I did get the strings from the source, like above
20:07:27 <_johanne1> after the code I showed you I just std::cout the file.cargo_names
20:08:15 <Alberth> carg->IsValid() checked?
20:08:43 <_johanne1> it's just l instead of l (German for "oil")
20:09:08 <Alberth> looks like X liter to me
20:09:37 <_johanne1> np, I'll just have to find out how setlocale() works
20:13:18 <Alberth> LOCALE=<something> ./openttd iirc, but I never really bothered with locale stuff
20:13:43 <Alberth> it's the first thing I disable, since it gets in the way when editing souce code
20:14:37 <planetmaker> but... the locale shouldn't matter really, _johanne1 as you can set your preferred language in the game options - independent of locale
20:15:21 <_johanne1> planetmaker: I know, but the exact problem is this:
20:15:35 <_johanne1> I have a German game with things like Kohle, l, Passagiere
20:15:47 <planetmaker> _johanne1, from when I still had an ubuntu running, I know that it messed up fonts generally after hibernation. It was an ubuntu 14.x.
20:16:12 <_johanne1> hmm I only did s2ram
20:16:42 <planetmaker> it was ticking me off enough that I replaced my ubuntu by fedora ;)
20:17:07 <_johanne1> now, there should be a way for the converter to specify what kind of cargoes you'd like int the graph: "mkgraph --cargo=Passagiere,Kohle"
20:17:57 <_johanne1> since the exporter does not link again openttd, it must know what "Kohle" actually is, which is why I store the word "Kohle" in the binary files that the converter expects
20:19:08 <_johanne1> it's like this: openttd -> binary data (including string like "l") -> converter -> graph
20:21:05 <_johanne1> anyways, maybe I'll just use English strings, most Germans probably understand what "passengers" means
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21:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> _johanne1: as long as openttd exports the language string correctly, it shouldn't matter what string or language it actually is
21:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> _johanne1: note that NewGRFs can change all cargos, so you can't rely on external data
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22:40:33 <_johanne1> Eddi|zuHause: yes, this is also why I want to put the strings into the file
22:40:47 <_johanne1> that way, there's no need to rely on what cargo the game offers
22:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i meant: just write out whatever language openttd is currently set to.
22:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or potentially the 4-letter cargo label, for more technically inclined people
22:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> note that it's actually just a 32-bit number, using 4 letters is just a convention
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23:07:50 <_johanne1> ok, I'll probably use those 4-letter cargo labels, good point
23:07:59 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 8 hours, 46 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <andythenorth> but maybe not today
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