IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-03-04
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00:52:17 <drac_boy> if you're talking about sloped platforms you need to check the pitas-something rack railroad in switzerland :P
00:52:25 <sim-al2> I can't read the sign, but if you're in a wheelchair that platform isn't going to work out well
00:52:30 <drac_boy> its "steppered" as I recall
00:53:33 <sim-al2> Yeah, most funicular's seem to do the step thing, this one is rather odd for having such a steep slope
00:56:01 <drac_boy> also if I recall right theres been at least one interesting one that converted from cable to rack .. probably to do with traffics or some other economics (reminds me a bit of the glasgow metro history tho, was first a rope railroad then later got electric traction)
00:59:34 <drac_boy> old photo, I can't recall if they
00:59:47 <drac_boy> they're still running the curved platforms or have closed these stations for nearby straight ones*
00:59:51 <sim-al2> Seems to have been common for a cable or later a rack system to be installed, and then replaced with electric traction (or banking engines) later on
01:00:19 <sim-al2> "Please mind the gap"
01:01:32 <drac_boy> more like "please mind the literal gap" ;) as usually that kind of announcement is talking about <1 inch gaps tho :)
01:05:15 <sim-al2> Even Japan has that problem, having platforms on curves sucks if you want to elevate it properly
01:09:43 <drac_boy> oh about japan, they always seem to have interesting traffics - sometimes doing things I never seen outside japan either
01:10:26 <drac_boy> like how about the commuter platform actually having a signal located mid-platform so its possible for an arriving train to creep into the platform even before the prior train has completely cleared out?
01:10:57 <drac_boy> that or a 3-way junction having trains timed so close together that you sometimes wonder what would happen if a turnout motor was just one second too slow :->
01:11:34 <sim-al2> Interlocking is always a part of turnouts like that
01:12:20 <sim-al2> The train can't be cleared if the rails don't complete an electrical circuit
01:13:03 <drac_boy> I know, what I really meant was I can't imagine the traffic shock if one train had to slow/stop at an unplanned signal
01:13:21 <drac_boy> at least most rail traffic is spaced much further apart
01:13:47 <sim-al2> Delays can and do happen, but there's huge crews of rail workers around to fix stuff quickly
01:14:24 <drac_boy> theres at least two things in the old system that seem to have been reduced or completely erased and its probably for the best tho...
01:15:28 <drac_boy> 1. specially hired pushers to cram people into overpacked trains (I'm not sure if this is still around anywhere anymore) and 2. drivers risking heavy punishment for letting a train be just a little late, as I recall this was what caused one of the rather bad emu accident where the train took a curve too fast and slammed into a trackside (in a manner speaking) apartment
01:16:41 <sim-al2> 1. That seemed to happen up to the early 2000's, but most routes have gotten longer trains and signalling upgrades so they don't have to do that anymore
01:18:05 <sim-al2> 2. JR West has been heavily critcized for that, to the point that a number of top executives left. That crash happened just west of Osaka near Amagasaki
01:20:26 <drac_boy> at least for most part japan seem to have designed a good system (mind you I still think of one kalbmach Trains article that basically quoted "fra would have never allowed any japan trains in usa, but then again japan is designed around preventing rather than withstanding accidents" which does have some truth in it
01:20:33 <sim-al2> Competition among railway companies around Osaka is far more intense than even Tokyo, with companies acclerating schedules and buying new equipment
01:21:28 <sim-al2> The FRA's authority is mostly related to running trains on the national network, plenty of metro systems run their equipment to much more reasonable standards
01:22:46 <drac_boy> mind you I haven't really checked too well about this but I wonder if theres any non-japan tilting dmu's around
01:23:26 <drac_boy> japan mainly only designed them because of the unelectrified route up north and that beside tilting was an easy way to shave the timetables after all
01:24:38 <drac_boy> I didn't know there was a diesel version of the pento trainset* (curse a sensitive Return key I got here...gota fix it on weekend uhh)
01:24:56 <sim-al2> Also the German Class 612, the "RegioSwinger"
01:26:10 <sim-al2> It's pointing out that the Class 612 and it's predecessors had many problems that took a long time to overcome
01:27:27 <sim-al2> The ICE TD also has tilitng, but the problems were so bad there that it's sometimes considered a failure, although units are being leased to Denmark for now
01:27:34 <drac_boy> heh oh THAT ... I recall the railway europe magazine said something about lot of software issues including not being able to MU together (at least *the* hardware side of that worked just fine tho)
01:27:46 <drac_boy> re the 612's that is ^
01:28:30 <sim-al2> Hmmm, wikipedia article for the TD has been updated, they are going to be scrapped this year...
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01:29:18 <sim-al2> Well, after December anyway
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01:30:11 <drac_boy> btw about tilting failures...
01:30:21 <sim-al2> The Japanese units have had some problems too, but those seem related to JR Hokkiado's maintanence practices
01:30:35 <drac_boy> why did noone noticed that a LRC without the "C" was really not much better than a standard F7/F9? ;)
01:31:31 <drac_boy> at least the then-matched coaches still got reused with the F40PH for longer so that was one good thing anyhow
01:31:44 <sim-al2> Needed to have a fast domestic-built train
01:32:20 <drac_boy> bombardier did try that .. the politics didn't quite buy into it tho
01:32:34 <drac_boy> was like I think called Jet Train or something close
01:36:44 <drac_boy> oh btw the gov wants to put over $1B into bombardier already .. I'm like "uhhh a jet plane does NOT mate with the kyoto stuff" ... no comment on why for a while I've been already thinking about leaving this country but to our own merits
01:39:26 <sim-al2> It's not like most western countries don't pump lots of money into their national "presitage" companies anyway
01:40:55 <sim-al2> Apparently some of the design work put into the LRC made it into the Acela coaches though
01:41:45 <drac_boy> and the alberta politics keep complaining a LOT when anyone accuses their tarsand oil stuff .... I'm like X_X
01:42:41 <sim-al2> Probably not a good time to be in the tarsands industry, especially when all the "easy" oil sources are slowing down production
01:44:17 <drac_boy> well tarsand is very damaging in two ways..both excessive oil consumption and re the big landscape scar ... so no further comment from me :->
01:44:45 <sim-al2> Yeah, not really the nicest system at all
01:45:39 <drac_boy> coal is somewhat a bit split .. I mean many mines are using underground tunnel which is ok .. its the general consumption of coal that is more of the issue tho (outside being used in steel mills etca ofc)
01:50:17 <drac_boy> anyhow back to some more rail topics .. just curious but what do you think of re active vs passive tilting mecahnisms?
01:50:29 <drac_boy> I know some of it depends on general rail route conditions too but even then
01:50:39 <sim-al2> I suppose it's up to the design and the situation
01:51:17 <sim-al2> Active tilt systems seem to have a bit more troubled past, especially the hydraulic systems
01:52:31 <drac_boy> passive isn't good if you got a lot of old fashioned turnouts (is it a wonder that the Turbotrain actually had a booklet warning to stay seated under motion at one specific station?)
01:52:43 <sim-al2> The electric actuators seem to be a lot better
01:52:47 <drac_boy> but for modern rails (UIC turnouts too) .. passive probably works pretty well
01:53:25 <sim-al2> I have to wonder if the turnout thing is more of a Talgo-style design issue
01:54:08 <sim-al2> The JNR era 381 series had passive tilt, although apparently those units carried seatback sick bags
01:54:58 <sim-al2> I've read that the tilt on the British ATP was a little *too* good, in the sense that perfect compensation caused nausea in many people
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01:56:04 <lastwisher> i have a small problem, about client code anyone can help ?
01:56:22 <drac_boy> heh actually the APT was a rather early experience at tilting .. noone knew about the downward sensulations ... cue everyone there by then knowing to do less-than-full tilting from that point onward
01:56:44 <ST2> lastwisher: dnt ask to ask ^^
01:56:52 <ST2> just make your question :P
01:57:14 <drac_boy> the turnout isn't talgo style .. in usa the turnouts are old 15kph limited ones with sharp diverges ... hence why the turbotrain could "rock" a lot at the busy station
01:57:34 <drac_boy> but in europe they have long by then known how to design high speed turnouts that even a passive tilting system wouldn't have really noticed them much
01:58:14 <sim-al2> No, the top-hung pendelum style made famous by Talgo, but found on the Turbo trains and the experimental units for the New Haven and others
01:58:55 <lastwisher> ok i want to use some functions at a rail_cmd.cpp on rail_gui.cpp but i dont see any headers, and when i try to include rail_cmd.cpp to rail_cmd.cpp i get already defined errors (i thing double include) how i can handle this ?
01:58:57 <drac_boy> oh well.. the turnout speed thing is true nevertheless
01:59:01 <sim-al2> Also, 15 kph is an incredibly low speed limit, even for old styles
02:00:13 <sim-al2> Possible at stations, but that's seems very detrimental to running trains to any kind of tight schedule
02:04:13 <drac_boy> btw about the APT .. this is APT-E but still .. a diesel-hauled test train (looks like either panto or rail ride test to not have the end cars present) somehow didn't brake enough and went a little past the rails heh http://www.old-dalby.com/images/185_on_floor.jpg
02:05:31 <sim-al2> Is that the buffer that's underneath the front?
02:05:51 <drac_boy> no idea heh .. but looks like all axles are down on the gravel :)
02:06:14 <drac_boy> or as an american would had quoted "on the ground!" .. not sure if british english had an equival to that
02:15:31 <drac_boy> has happened quite a number of times as far as reported history seem to say (and its no surprise that even Awdry used one of them as a basis for one episode too)
02:19:08 <sim-al2> Heh, always seems to make a mess
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02:42:54 <drac_boy> anyway going off for tonight now
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08:51:04 <qwebirc85697> In the cargo flow chart apparently some link can be overcrowded and become red. But even when lots of people waiting in stations those link never overcrowd and at most full. How is it possible to make a link overcrowd?
09:05:39 <V453000> no clue, sorry, I find cargodist pointless :(
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09:12:43 <qwebirc85697> *cargo flow legend
09:13:09 <V453000> yes I understand what you mean
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11:20:02 <qunow> About the cargodist thing i think i found out the reason why it doesn't show red/yellow. Seems like you need to let cargodist to help distrubute the cargo in order to have it display overlpad status
11:59:28 <V453000> miracle happened :D I wrote a .bat and it works
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13:26:53 <andythenorth> getting much sleep V453000?
13:29:02 <V453000> had a blender adventure morning though ... shit is solved now
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15:44:35 <kubast2> Hey ,is it possible to move the mini map?
15:48:03 <andythenorth> on a mac, hold down the cmd key and drag, there will be a similar key on other OS
15:49:58 <kubast2> andythenorth: I tried control ,alt ,super key and they don't work ,I have old version of openttd[from repo] ,so that might also be a reason why it doesn't work for me
15:51:08 <kubast2> ok I see there's a button that allows me to center the map[where my view is the center of the minimap]
15:51:18 <planetmaker> left-click + drag iirc
15:51:46 <planetmaker> the functionality of how map is moved didn't change in years
16:02:09 <kubast2> planetmaker: I didn't wanted to move a minimap window/move my view within minimap/enlarge the minimap window ,I wanted to move the minimap ,the center button seems to do the trick.
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18:51:47 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 23 hours, 45 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey hey
18:51:55 <andythenorth> when I go, he will arrive
18:53:04 <V453000> hm considering to make all vehicles 8/8 instead of 4/8
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18:55:22 <V453000> I have a shitload of details
18:55:26 <V453000> they are totally lost even in x4
18:58:50 <V453000> and they are meant to look massive, the scale difference is just too big from the usual
18:59:41 <Alberth> yes, I find x4 too big, but maybe I need a higher resolution screen :)
19:15:31 <V453000> and when something looks way too small in x4, you have a problem :D
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20:29:29 <V453000> I have rendered vehicles
20:29:40 <V453000> if I make them 4/8 and downsize the sprites to fit, they are tiny
20:29:49 <V453000> if I make them 8/8, they will glitch badly
20:30:15 <andythenorth> 4/8 is super-chibi
20:30:28 <andythenorth> the IH roster I am working on, I was going to make all the NG trains 4/8
20:30:33 <V453000> ye and this is meant to be massive looking
20:30:39 <V453000> so 4/8 is canceled :D
20:31:44 <andythenorth> 6/8 makes a round number at 4 tile length
20:31:53 <andythenorth> so everyone should just use 4 tile trains :P
20:32:15 <andythenorth> actually the engine is 8/8 so my trains are ‘optimum’ at 5 tile
20:32:23 <andythenorth> which everyone knows is the winningest length anyway
20:32:26 <andythenorth> coop standard no?
20:32:37 <V453000> coop doesn't have a standard length
20:32:40 * andythenorth remembers first coop game he played
20:32:51 <andythenorth> I was building trains to look nice, and everyone was freaking out
20:32:57 <andythenorth> ‘andythenorth you are ruining our networks'
20:36:07 <V453000> hm fak I once again modeled before seeing the dimensions in game XD
20:37:14 <andythenorth> eh, it’s all modelled, no?
20:37:17 <andythenorth> easy to change o_O
20:37:38 <V453000> it is but I have a very short-ish vehicle
20:38:15 <andythenorth> ‘select all’ -> transform -> y axis, 200%
20:38:27 * andythenorth was an expert at 3D modelling
20:38:29 <V453000> I might see a solution
20:40:00 <V453000> I was basically trying to put a mining truck on tracks
20:40:21 <V453000> big square-ish fat vehicle
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20:54:35 <V453000> hm 75% kind of almost works
20:58:28 <andythenorth> mining truck proportions not like trains :)
20:58:42 <andythenorth> that’s the point eh?
21:00:44 <V453000> well applying the 8/8 sprite to 4/8 vehicle wasn't helping with glitches either :D
21:00:55 <V453000> 75% is pretty flawless
21:04:03 <V453000> but in train version :P
21:08:18 <V453000> I think 75-85% will do the trick
21:14:01 <V453000> if I just replace tunnel entrances with something a little ridiculous, it won't even glitch XD
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21:18:13 <Thasan> how can I get write access to wiki? "Account creation from this IP address (Adrealoly) has been blocked by frosch."
21:22:00 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 3 hours, 6 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <frosch123> the build station gui will tell you
21:22:07 <andythenorth> he must be away :)
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21:27:48 * andythenorth should make Iron Frog
21:46:28 <FLHerne> Thasan: You could PM frosch on the forum, or just wait until he's on here
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22:44:42 <drac_boy> goign make some supper now sorry :->
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