IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-02-25
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01:11:42 <drac_boy> correct me if I'm wrong but usually if a building is more than 1x1 tile then its drawn in separate chunks?
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01:27:55 <Supercheese> Don't worry, I'll be idling like a champ
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04:16:20 <supermop> all these wedding officiants' websites are so cheesy
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09:43:48 <rah> andythenorth: I notice your Virgin Media address is at Aztec West; are you in Bristol?
09:44:12 <rah> in fact, I'm going there this weekend
09:44:42 <andythenorth> Microprose used to be based in Bristol, and TTD was launched from here
09:45:16 <andythenorth> check the vehicles
09:45:47 <rah> I had friend who used to work for Microprose
09:46:30 <rah> that's an odd freudian-esque slip
09:46:40 <andythenorth> the man who fixed my windows used to work for Microprose
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11:29:49 <MonkeyDrone> Good afternoon folks!
11:40:39 <V453000> tonight we dine in hell?
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14:51:30 <andythenorth> V453000: open wagons are boring
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14:51:50 <andythenorth> rest of this roster came easy :P
14:52:17 <andythenorth> also open wagons need loads
14:52:32 <V453000> you mean closed wagons are boring?
14:53:18 <V453000> open wagons with visible cargo = win ... admittedly drawing all of the cargoes is serious hell
14:54:00 <V453000> also, I have to say that even boxcars have some magic to them .... but they need to be recognizable at least, and if you can see if they are full/empty, that is a bonus
14:54:24 <V453000> I kind of miss boxcars in NUTS, my new train set will definitely carry some cargoes in boxcars
14:54:27 <V453000> just cause more wagon variety
14:55:04 <andythenorth> just opening doors at stations
14:55:12 <V453000> yes, but that would make them all look the same
14:55:20 <andythenorth> change colour and such
14:55:25 <V453000> I will at least colour code them or add some other details which make them visible which cargo they carry
14:55:29 <V453000> even if it isn't the cargo itself
14:59:05 <V453000> yeah but with 4/8 that won't work great
14:59:56 <andythenorth> when are you sending me preview image of your trainz?
15:00:06 <V453000> well, the high capacity caro image could do that yes
15:00:11 <V453000> when the whole project is done
15:00:23 <V453000> in a couple months I believe
15:00:24 <andythenorth> can haz exclusive preview :P
15:00:35 <V453000> no, no exclusive previews this time
15:00:40 <V453000> this will be seriously wicked sick
15:01:01 <V453000> thee pants would not be browned if you behold the sight of a work in progress
15:01:14 <V453000> how ever when you witness the full scale wtf at once, they might
15:03:19 <V453000> one day I will have mental breakdown and break to the urge of wanting to show my shit to everybody, but I will try to control myself :P
15:17:44 <V453000> my BRIX trello is starting to look quite good :)
15:17:58 <V453000> still shitload remaining, but progress is visible
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15:33:43 <V453000> a server can run many years beyond 2050?
15:33:44 <Monkey__> can't openttd end of game be circumvented?
15:34:01 <V453000> our servers very often run to years like 2500
15:34:12 <Monkey__> yeah i've seen servers running beyond endless time
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15:34:36 <Monkey__> but i keep reading that game ends 2050 , let me confirm something
15:34:46 <V453000> Monkey__: maybe on reddit servers
15:34:59 <peter1138> is openttd 2 done yet?
15:35:10 <V453000> in 2050 clients get company stats table, but upon clicking they can play on
15:35:14 <andythenorth> it’s similar to OpenTTD 1, but with more translations
15:35:23 <Monkey__> they seem to be loaded games
15:35:58 <V453000> well loading a savegame is the best way to make a map
15:36:05 <Monkey__> v453000, well i had the privleged of being on a vanilla server that hit 2051 and the thing popped up and we all got disocnnected
15:36:09 <V453000> you prepare map locally, upload to server
15:36:20 <V453000> yes there is some reset setting Monkey__
15:36:32 <V453000> I haven't touched these settings in years so I don't remember their names, sorry
15:36:45 <Monkey__> as in server side reset settings?
15:36:52 <V453000> but you totally certainly can disable them, I would even say the default is that the game runs forever
15:37:23 <Monkey__> let me go over the config once more
15:41:56 <peter1138> that's from an ancient config though
15:42:03 <peter1138> someobody probably renamed it at some point
15:42:42 <Monkey__> ooooh, let me ctrl+F
15:42:56 <Monkey__> ah yes, it's at 0 == disabled i believe
15:43:20 <V453000> then your server shouldn't restart itself
15:43:22 <Monkey__> this time join stuff is in seconds?
15:43:47 <Monkey__> time to open server wiki
15:44:18 <Monkey__> it was ARK all over again
15:45:11 <V453000> I see some crafting survival game I guess
15:45:20 <Monkey__> you wake up on a map, dinosaurs running around, you chop wood, find resources, build living quarters to keep yourself same, tame them dinos and ride them around
15:45:30 <V453000> factorio isn't as much about survival as about building complex factories :)
15:45:54 <Monkey__> well i only had time to play 10 mins of it, still haven't gone through the tutorial part, i'll have a go at it soon enough
15:46:11 <Monkey__> 4 hours to make a decision, yargh
15:46:14 <V453000> yeah it kind of needs hours to actually try all the stuff XD
15:47:45 <Monkey__> ah well, bought it. Hit or miss, time will tell :D
15:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> one day I will have mental breakdown <-- wait, what's the state you are in NOW? :p
15:49:41 <Monkey__> ah shit, my brother's ISP license got revoked by the governing authority, drama time
15:51:32 <Monkey__> yeah, their CEO was money laundering
15:51:45 <Monkey__> huge ass case going on here, they had a warning last week to turn over some stuff
15:51:52 <Monkey__> looks like the management failed, damn
15:54:03 <Monkey__> aye, ok i will move now, i'll be back in an hour, ty for the help. heading out to do some grocery shopping and then coffee shop to meet some friends to do some local RA2 gaming
15:55:50 <Wolf01> mmh, could the CC license be applied to a "thing" which gives an output? And in this case, which license has the output? I know the GPL doesn't give rights over the output to the creator of "thing"
15:58:40 <Eddi|zuHause> a) yes, and b) that depends heavily on the nature of the output
16:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> if the output is constructed from the user's input, it would not be covered by the license, it the output is constructed from library data, then it would be covered
16:02:02 <Wolf01> even if the output is a projection of the library data?
16:02:48 <Wolf01> I mean, there's a form protected by CC which casts a shadow, is the shadow protected by CC?
16:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you're being too vague.
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16:06:35 <Wolf01> for example, a CC cad file is the file (the instructions on how to recreate a model) protected or the phisical result of those instructions?
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16:11:43 <drac_boy> hi eddi :) how doing atm
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16:24:56 <drac_boy> sim-a12 the trainchat :p
16:31:03 <planetmaker> Wolf01, you can CC any work. Which means derivative works have to credit you - which covers also a shadow cast by an object you created in a 3D modeller.
16:31:18 <planetmaker> Wolf01, except when your object is a sphere or cube, thus nothing original
16:31:51 <Wolf01> np, not my problem, I only release in CC0
16:32:02 <Wolf01> but other ones may have problems
16:41:18 <Wolf01> mmh train fever update... the last one?
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16:52:04 <MonkeyDrone> guess who's back, back again :D
16:52:20 <MonkeyDrone> had to make a pit stop and try out a new place with their shawarmas
16:52:30 <MonkeyDrone> good stuff they had, reasonably priced too, aww yyiiss
16:52:36 <MonkeyDrone> Monkey, who else maaaan
16:53:14 <MonkeyDrone> it's okay, when i come to collect your soul. You shall know what a monkey is!
16:53:31 <Wolf01> don't have a soul, sorry
16:54:50 <MonkeyDrone> should have kept the gingers away from the hippies
16:54:57 <Wolf01> not a hippie, I'm a computer program... mer
16:57:03 <MonkeyDrone> ah, you are in luck then. You have a soul, but it's okay, i am no longer interested
17:02:10 <MonkeyDrone> pause on join isn't that necessary is it
17:03:07 <V453000> only for big maps / very advanced games
17:03:38 <MonkeyDrone> so my 1k*1k nuts,yeti,rawr server won't need pause?
17:04:21 <V453000> 512x512 is enough, trust me
17:04:31 <MonkeyDrone> enough for 15 people?
17:04:53 <V453000> but 1k x 1k is just insane
17:05:19 <V453000> also if you are starting a server that people don't know, it isn't very likely you will fill it quickly
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17:05:23 <V453000> especially with these newgrfs
17:05:24 <MonkeyDrone> ok, i'll go with 512x512 and see how that works out, keeping in mind that i will probably do a reset per week
17:05:56 <MonkeyDrone> i'm not expecting many people, but just getting the feel of what works for MP servers
17:06:25 <MonkeyDrone> working on settings of auto_clean companies
17:07:15 <MonkeyDrone> unprotected 1 month, no vehicles 6 months,, protected i'm contemplating
17:07:45 <V453000> don't remove protected companies
17:07:51 <MonkeyDrone> when it says no activity, does it mean no user login to the company?
17:08:08 <planetmaker> and yeah, don't remove automatically protected companies
17:08:09 <MonkeyDrone> ah ok, thats not what i want.
17:08:24 <planetmaker> leave that for you to do manually
17:08:34 <MonkeyDrone> config done, ty :)
17:08:58 <MonkeyDrone> autoclean_unprotected = 1
17:08:59 <MonkeyDrone> autoclean_protected = 0
17:08:59 <MonkeyDrone> autoclean_novehicles = 6
17:09:33 <MonkeyDrone> now wher are my sticky notes
17:09:44 <MonkeyDrone> i swear these windows sticky notes gets out of hand real fast
17:09:59 <Alberth> attached to your fore head?
17:10:11 <MonkeyDrone> digital sticky notes :D
17:10:32 <V453000> Alberth: remember the time when I was complaining that my BRIX trello tasklist is infinitely long?
17:10:39 <V453000> it isn't that long anymore :) feels good
17:11:03 <MonkeyDrone> why is rawr 0.0.1? :D no updates done to it once it was released?
17:11:12 <Alberth> that's the nice thing about lists of todo, they get shorter when working on them
17:11:22 <V453000> yep MonkeyDrone, I don't like it
17:11:26 <andythenorth> mine often get longer :(
17:11:28 <MonkeyDrone> you guys have it good, my todo list just gets longer
17:11:37 <andythenorth> todo: delete stuff
17:12:13 <MonkeyDrone> lol, yes, sometimes you have to mark things off it that yo know will never happen. You just stare at the ground in disappointment of yourself and then move on as soon as you look away from the ground
17:12:37 <Alberth> MonkeyDrone: just make a single text file for everything, and search it for things
17:13:08 <MonkeyDrone> i don't mind if these stickies get deleted, they never have anything crucial and once it's gone i've less to worry about :D
17:13:28 <Alberth> never make them in the first place? :p
17:13:51 <MonkeyDrone> can't not make them, then people ask about things I have no memory of, only way to recall things xD
17:14:28 <Alberth> copy it into the cfg, saved
17:14:44 <MonkeyDrone> we are still talking about the same thing yeah? xD
17:15:17 <MonkeyDrone> or shall i chalk that up to a really bad joke xD
17:15:28 <MonkeyDrone> not bad, but lame :D
17:15:51 <MonkeyDrone> shit, you should go out more :D
17:16:03 <Alberth> just put things at the place where they belong, that's the easiest way to find it back
17:16:24 <MonkeyDrone> yup, desktop, how i wish for one of these days for windows to hardcrash and lose data
17:17:46 <MonkeyDrone> just need to sort out this join times timeout thing
17:17:59 <V453000> solve when people are having problems
17:18:14 <V453000> just guessing the values probably won't end up final anyway
17:18:16 <MonkeyDrone> aye, i still need to something basic
17:18:36 <MonkeyDrone> i'm gonna take it from a 1Mbps user and calculate based on that
17:19:10 <MonkeyDrone> a lot of us are dreams away from fiber, cable of sorts
17:19:37 <Alberth> woow V, a trello filled with structure and plans!
17:19:57 <MonkeyDrone> haha, yeah i have been looking at it. Trello seems like a very useful software
17:20:15 <MonkeyDrone> now i can stalk V's wip
17:20:28 <Alberth> nah, just an issue tracker, but public
17:20:41 <MonkeyDrone> noooooooooo, you killed my dreams, i hope you know that
17:21:20 <MonkeyDrone> it's okay, just sleep with one eye open tonight :)
17:21:27 <MonkeyDrone> i don't hold grudges :D
17:22:54 <MonkeyDrone> so soap is the admin thing to go with?
17:23:02 <MonkeyDrone> lol, nothing, i was just being dramatic
17:23:26 <V453000> it is basically the same as devzone issue tracker, but that imo gets messy quick
17:23:32 <V453000> here shit is easy to see
17:23:51 <Alberth> it looks good, I agree
17:24:01 <MonkeyDrone> i like the colors?
17:24:09 <MonkeyDrone> never had a project that i worked on where i had issue trackers :D
17:24:28 <MonkeyDrone> closest thing i've gotten to issue tracking is bitbucket
17:24:43 <MonkeyDrone> when i did mods for L4D2, fun times...
17:24:43 <V453000> you can even add pictures to the tasks and it makes them thumbnails to add to the colors
17:25:13 <V453000> I generally don't for openttd, but I could :)
17:25:41 <Alberth> getting a sort of overview would be useful
17:26:30 <MonkeyDrone> 1/30th of a second == 1 tick in ottd
17:26:32 <V453000> well, for outside people yes
17:26:38 <V453000> but for me, I know what the issues are about
17:26:40 <MonkeyDrone> time to crunch numbers
17:27:42 <MonkeyDrone> whatever happened to numion download time calculator
17:27:49 <MonkeyDrone> i used to use that website for a decade+
17:27:59 <MonkeyDrone> and last year it just went down :(
17:28:25 <Pici> wolfram alpha can do byte/time/bandwidth calculations iirc
17:29:00 <MonkeyDrone> this one works well for me, gives me all the small sizes
17:29:28 <MonkeyDrone> 2 minutes of downloading should be enough :D
17:30:32 <MonkeyDrone> sweet, the default values are perfect
17:30:53 <MonkeyDrone> a lot higher than what numbers i was crunching out.
17:31:02 <V453000> make sure your train acceleration model is realistic
17:31:14 <V453000> the default is original which is retardation^2
17:31:44 <MonkeyDrone> hahahaha, yeah i went over your glorious wiki and set everything as stated :D
17:31:53 <MonkeyDrone> 4% hill climb penalty etc
17:32:13 <MonkeyDrone> i believe it is ready for a full on run
17:32:26 <V453000> the climb penalties aren't so important, but yes 3-5% just works
17:32:34 <andythenorth> an open wagon is 8px x 24px
17:32:38 <andythenorth> why so hard to draw :x
17:32:44 <MonkeyDrone> it was at default 3, i turned it up to 4 :D
17:32:51 <andythenorth> I’ve drawn 50 of them before ;P
17:32:59 <MonkeyDrone> let me check andythenorth, i will get you your answer
17:34:17 <MonkeyDrone> i asked jesus on askjesus.com
17:34:23 <MonkeyDrone> "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
17:34:31 <MonkeyDrone> "why can't andythenorth not draw an open wagon that is 8x by 24px?"
17:34:48 <MonkeyDrone> beats me, thing is cryptic
17:35:17 <V453000> You asked: "the fuck is this shit" Jesus Answers: "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:10
17:35:38 <MonkeyDrone> well looks like he's got the answer for all your questions
17:35:55 <MonkeyDrone> ah fuck i just rememberd
17:36:03 <MonkeyDrone> my brother's ISP company who's license just got revoked
17:36:06 <MonkeyDrone> my internet is from them..............
17:36:11 <MonkeyDrone> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
17:39:56 <Alberth> study Matthew 5:10, the answer should be there
17:42:32 <MonkeyDrone> ok 1k*1k map is huge, its emptly and already 1.4MB in size ...
17:43:04 <V453000> btw a map without trees is smaller :P
17:43:12 <MonkeyDrone> GRFs are loading up awesome, City builder also doing well :D
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17:43:22 <MonkeyDrone> can't i reduce number of trees?
17:43:30 <MonkeyDrone> dont' want it to look deserted
17:43:44 <V453000> what point is citybuilder for a long game?
17:44:21 <MonkeyDrone> adding some goals to aim for :D
17:44:54 <MonkeyDrone> need bigger town/cities for more YETI workers. Work for it :D
17:45:16 <MonkeyDrone> and it's nothing too hard that it's not achieveable
17:45:32 <V453000> ok makes some sense :)
17:45:54 <MonkeyDrone> keeping it pretty simple, don't want out of control growths with people running 5 stations in a circle and abusing the system all the time :P
17:46:20 <V453000> oh yeah make sure you disable towns build their own roads
17:46:29 <V453000> then only the towns that people take care of and expand themselves do grow
17:46:30 <MonkeyDrone> saw a map, map overrun with huge cities, could barely spot any free spots for construction of infrastructure
17:46:49 <V453000> -> you don't have the map cluttered with poinlessly huge towns after 200 years
17:46:50 <MonkeyDrone> well towns on their own grow slow as hell right
17:47:03 <MonkeyDrone> most don't really grow big do they?
17:47:15 <V453000> depends on the setting, but even the slowest still grow, and after 200 years it becomes a lot
17:47:34 <MonkeyDrone> alright then, i'll disable self town growth
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17:48:01 <V453000> I strongly recommend to not allow towns build their own roads - the road growing mechanism is dumb anyway, so if a player wants to care about their town, it is just counterproductive
17:49:01 <MonkeyDrone> allow_town_roads = false
17:49:25 <MonkeyDrone> I will heed to your wisdom :D
17:54:01 <MonkeyDrone> wow , no trees on map generation resulted in 1MB less , map is now 500KB
17:55:23 <MonkeyDrone> as soon as i figure out how to reduce size of map generation through config, i'll hook it to 512/512
17:55:50 <MonkeyDrone> ah original tree palcement is better than openttd 'improved' algorithm
17:56:08 <MonkeyDrone> that uniform trees acrosss the world irks me
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17:57:40 <Alberth> map_y = 9 <-- actual map size is 2**9 x 2**9
17:57:53 <MonkeyDrone> haha, took too long to join server x.x i guess numbers are getting doubled
17:58:03 <MonkeyDrone> ah ok ty Alberth :)
17:58:43 <MonkeyDrone> ok friend is here
18:03:21 <MonkeyDrone> done, 512x512, small map size, trees no longer an issue on filesize
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18:07:15 <MonkeyDrone> 350KB filesize now :D sweeet
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18:45:53 <andythenorth> so who wants to try new Horse? o_O
18:45:59 <andythenorth> it only has 3 engines :P
18:47:33 <Alberth> I heard numbers of 9 diesels alone, yesterday :)
18:48:04 <V453000> the modern roster reducing movement is on apparently
18:49:51 <Wolf01> you should make more little grfs like this, 1 steam 1 diesel 1 electric or such
18:50:09 <Wolf01> even 3 steam or 3 diesel or 3 electric
18:51:05 <Wolf01> maybe tiered or specific for cargo / passengers, so one could load only what he need
18:51:52 <Wolf01> at least this was my idea, but I would put only one engine or a set of wagons per grf
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18:56:04 <andythenorth> Alberth: only 3 right now :)
18:56:07 <andythenorth> owing to drawing
18:56:14 <andythenorth> ideal time to play for someone who likes few engines
19:01:20 <andythenorth> one more engine to add there
19:01:28 <andythenorth> I have not added a caboose :P
19:04:19 <Alberth> doesn't look minimalistic :p
19:04:53 <andythenorth> wagons are needed, eh?
19:06:23 * andythenorth must draw a bit more
19:09:07 <andythenorth> caboose or not to caboose?
19:12:11 <Alberth> but euhm, you have every wagon twice
19:12:18 <andythenorth> realism says “no” but realism meh
19:12:47 <Alberth> decorative caboose is fine, imho
19:13:16 <andythenorth> Alberth: w.r.t. to twice, I’m not trying to be minimalist :D
19:13:24 <andythenorth> “only 3” = unfinished :P
19:13:50 <Alberth> ah, everything makes sense then :)
19:31:23 <Wolf01> is it possible to make an articulated double headed engine?
19:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> spec would be pretty simple, actually. "dual headed" flag should be set for the first part of the lead vehicle, and the first part of the end vehicle, not set for any other parts
19:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so other vehicles would be inserted right before the second part with the "dual headed" flag
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19:45:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27512 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2016-02-25 19:45:36 +0100 )
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> spanish: 6 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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19:51:02 <Ketsuban> andythenorth: maybe the cabeese could give a small boost to reliability, so there's a small incentive to use them but it's still perfectly okay to go without.
19:52:10 <Ketsuban> Though speaking personally, if using a caboose will make the numbers rounder (e.g. adding the missing 0.3 from my length-6 train) then that'd probably be enough to get me to use them. :V
19:52:33 <andythenorth> cabeese are eye candy only :)
19:59:10 <andythenorth> this caboose is terrible :(
19:59:17 <andythenorth> it’s like I’ve never learnt to draw pixels :(
20:08:26 <V453000> factorio on steam now :>
20:17:26 <Alberth> /me pulls the cord for a full steam whistle
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20:37:56 <andythenorth> I have been on a roll for about a week, drawing pixels
20:38:02 <andythenorth> and now I can’t draw a simple caboose :P
20:40:59 <frosch123> do caboose belong into iron llama?
20:41:24 <frosch123> only weird countries have those
20:42:18 <andythenorth> plural of cabeese :P
20:54:54 <andythenorth> will I draw some sqaure thing with 2 cabs?
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21:36:13 <andythenorth> I should do this one
21:36:18 <andythenorth> center-cab, ugly :P
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22:02:19 <andythenorth> although the cartoon aspect is not a bad thing
22:02:59 <andythenorth> there is something incredibly audacious about that, as though size has no limits
22:06:16 <Wolf01> I would like to draw a little grf with the C&O big engines, I like the colours and how big they are
22:07:50 <Wolf01> the other ones will be the L1 and the H8 (this one will be black)
22:09:08 <andythenorth> do you want the NARS 2 spritesheet to look at?
22:09:12 <andythenorth> I don’t think Dan will mind
22:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> OTTD of course has notorious problems with big vehicles
22:10:34 <Wolf01> nah, I'm trying with voxels now, just to see how it might look
22:14:28 <andythenorth> you would need to articulate them
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continue to next day ⏵
