IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-02-07
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12:09:56 <Milek7> station can influence rating of many towns, or only one?
12:21:57 <Milek7> hm, GSStation.IsWithinTownInfluence can return true for two towns
12:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: the station doesn't even need to be near the town it's affecting
12:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get very far away with stationwalking
12:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but as long as the original name stays the same, the affected town stays the same
12:25:48 <Milek7> where is the code checking affecting stations?
12:26:14 <Milek7> it use cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0] or something else?
12:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the town is only calculated on initial station construction
12:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and then stored in the station
12:29:10 <Milek7> static void UpdateTownRating(Town *t)
12:29:15 <Milek7> if (DistanceSquare(st->xy, t->xy) <= t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0]) {
12:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> then it's even weirder
12:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but still "t" will be the associated town stored in the station
12:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> this check then will filter out stations that are too far away
12:32:50 <Milek7> and it checks for FOR_ALL_STATIONS(st) {
12:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think those are enough fragments to decide what this code is doing
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12:34:47 <Milek7> iterating over all stations, compares distance with t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0] and adjusts rating
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12:58:11 <Milek7> value set by GSTown.SetGrowthRate can be overriden by game?
13:00:29 <_dp_> Milek7, what are you trying to do btw? raising some interesting questions lately)
13:01:18 <Milek7> i'm writing another city growth controlling script
13:01:44 <_dp_> aren't there enough already?)
13:04:15 <_dp_> I consedered continuing The_Dude's script or making my own when starting CityMania, but then looked at how GS works and gave up on doing anything with it xD
13:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so, who stole my replacement battery?
13:05:28 <_dp_> little green battery eater?
13:10:16 <Alberth> no battery eater attached?
13:23:02 <_johannes> does anyone know whether any of the pathfinders consider traffic?
13:23:33 <_johannes> e.g. if there are two routes from A to B that are equally good, does the train take the route where less other trains might block it?
13:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> none of the pathfinders will check for presence of a vehicle
13:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but the train pathfinder will consider red signals and path reservations
13:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> for the first 10(-ish) signals along the path
13:24:47 <frosch123> and the road path finder will account for vehicles currently loading in drive-through stops
13:25:26 <_johannes> hmm I wondered if one could get the graph of via-stations by just running the pathfinder around the current map, but if there are currently red signals, that would not work?
13:26:10 <_johannes> maybe I'll have to order *all* trains into depot and then run the pathfinder? :)
13:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you might need to check how to flip the mode to "don't check signals anymore"
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15:36:45 <Alberth> #openttd.devzone is a better channel for that George
15:37:26 <Alberth> admins of devzone should be there :)
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16:27:14 <Alberth> lots of pixels and code :)
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16:35:41 <andythenorth> did an audit of how well hardened my OS is
16:37:10 <andythenorth> I deleted a lot of unused apps and their support files
16:37:27 <andythenorth> and removed the Flash plugin and Unity plugins completely, instead of disabling them
16:37:45 <Alberth> that saves space at least :)
16:39:31 <andythenorth> I didn’t have sshd running, nor any sharing services
16:40:03 <andythenorth> none of the known OS X malware present
16:40:18 <andythenorth> and anything that’s really evil, I’d never be able to detect
16:41:50 <Alberth> everything looks fine
16:42:22 <andythenorth> the thing that I want a tinfoil hat for is keystroke loggers
16:42:29 <andythenorth> for some reason, I have an irrational fear of them
16:43:33 <Alberth> put some tape over your camera :)
16:43:57 <Alberth> how often do you type passwords?
16:43:58 <andythenorth> I am literally doing that
16:44:15 <Alberth> it's quite sensible, imho
16:44:33 <Alberth> if you use ssh, there are very few passwords that you need
16:45:07 <Alberth> I don't think keystroke loggers are much used; it's too much work finding out which keystrokes are a password
16:45:24 <andythenorth> I type admin passwords on my system all day long, everything interesting requires authenticating
16:45:51 <Alberth> unless they specifically target you, in which case, you have a bigger problem already
16:46:41 <Alberth> maybe emigrate to the moon or so :p
16:47:14 <andythenorth> that would pose a problem
16:47:26 <andythenorth> because then the SLA couldn’t be met
16:50:00 * andythenorth must now to pixels :)
16:50:41 <Alberth> what are you fixing or adding?
16:50:43 <frosch123> what's your reasoning for openttd being necessary on your system?
17:20:39 <andythenorth> it’s not necessary
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17:28:27 <andythenorth> do any of you keep OpenTTD virtualised?
17:28:56 <frosch123> i keep eints virtualised
17:29:23 <andythenorth> because you don’t trust the authors?
17:29:55 <frosch123> because it runs a webserver, sshd and other stuff, and i have port-forwarding from outside to it, so i can sometimes show people stuff :)
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17:34:04 * andythenorth considers virtualised OpenTTD
17:35:06 <andythenorth> ironically, the *only* identified piece of malware on my system was a windows .exe alongside Crossover (Wine)
17:36:02 <andythenorth> Crossover was installed only to test the windows version of OpenTTD :P
17:51:28 <Milek7> cargodist should be used with freight?
17:52:10 <Alberth> depends on how you play
17:52:25 <Milek7> people at my server hate it
17:53:02 <Alberth> but then again, I don't do city building or pax transport
17:53:22 <Alberth> but I also know people that disable it
17:54:20 <Alberth> you don't want symmetric mode for cargo, it's not useful mostly
17:54:39 <Alberth> there are few exceptions, like mail and values in temperate iirc
17:54:57 <Alberth> I never use symmetric mode, it feels like cheating :p
17:55:35 <frosch123> i also play without cdist
17:55:44 <frosch123> it manages something automatically, which i want to manage myself
17:56:50 <frosch123> cdist is kind of its own game goal
17:57:00 <frosch123> so it conflicts with any other goal which you may have
17:57:18 <andythenorth> do you feel like it sets goals?
17:57:28 <andythenorth> I let go of the idea that it chooses any destination
17:57:35 <andythenorth> now I have learned to love cdist
17:57:42 <andythenorth> ‘love’ is a strong word :)
17:57:56 <frosch123> to me a goal is usually something inhomogeneous
17:57:57 <Alberth> stockholm syndrome :p
17:58:11 <frosch123> like "some high value somewhere"
17:58:25 <frosch123> cdist distributes evenly, so it works against that
17:58:36 <frosch123> like with firs supplies
17:58:47 <frosch123> it works to distribute supplies evenly
17:58:54 <frosch123> but you cannot focus delivery to some location
18:00:09 <frosch123> Alberth: yes, cdest would be even worse :p
18:00:21 <frosch123> if there would be cdest, there would only be a single game mode
18:00:37 <frosch123> at least you can cheat cdist a bit
18:02:13 <andythenorth> by using multiple pickup stations, I seem to get the results I want
18:02:40 <andythenorth> those tankers are nice
18:02:54 <Milek7> they have some error in settings or what?
18:05:46 <frosch123> Milek7: no, cdist sets the goal, then you have to provide the necessary transport capacity
18:06:28 <frosch123> when playing without cdist, you decide where stuff goes, which essentially means stuff is distributed according to the transport capacity which you provide
18:06:55 <frosch123> when playing with cdist, noone cares about your capacity. it is expected that you change your capacities to match
18:07:41 <frosch123> if you have lots of cargo waiting somewhere when playing with cdist, it just means you are not fulfulling the goal
18:08:18 <frosch123> if that is not your king of goal, you should disable cdist
18:08:28 <frosch123> if it is your kind of goal, you should play better :p
18:12:18 <Milek7> so if there lots of cargo waiting cdist dosen't distribute it evenly?
18:13:26 <frosch123> if people want to drive from krakow to warsaw, and all trains are full, they do not suddenly decide to drive to poznan instead
18:13:41 <frosch123> they will just wait, and complain about the bad train service
18:13:49 <frosch123> or leave the station and take the car
18:14:02 <Alberth> cdist mostly starts using other routes to the destination
18:14:11 <Alberth> or additional routes even
18:15:20 <frosch123> yes, other routes, but not other destinations :)
18:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> cdist never distributes evenly. it has a bias towards certain distances
18:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you can adjust that bias in the settings
18:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you have your passenger network totally overloaded, you can make them take shorter distances, which will usually make it easier to transport everybody
18:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but this makes cargodist very ill-suited for distribution of cargos, where you have a single or very few sources, like FIRS supplies
18:22:52 <Milek7> if two companies ordered cargo, and train company haven't sufficent capacity, they would propably try to deliver what they can evenly, not all capacity to one company and nothing to second
18:35:05 <frosch123> giving how unpopular it is for companies to compete for source industires, i don't think anyone bothered to make cdist affect the station rating or pickup distribution
18:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist tried a few methods of affecting station rating
18:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure which one ended up being included
18:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i think "reachable destinations" was dropped, but "cargo waiting at intermediate stations" was kept
18:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly not optimal
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21:41:38 <Supercheese> and now the entire country goes into a stupor for the Stupor Bowl
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22:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> can't be worse than carneval...
22:15:58 <TrueBrain> you could live in a country where Trump is running for president
22:17:44 <TrueBrain> SpComb: your bot lost his name a while ago ;)
22:18:27 <TrueBrain> Guest659 .. that seems weeks ago ;)
22:22:24 <Supercheese> for the entire time I've been able to vote, every presidential candidate has been terrible, so there's nothing really new
22:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow i'm surrounded by cats all of a sudden
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23:48:24 <SpComb> TrueBrain: in disguise
23:58:44 <Flygon> Suppercheese: Clearly the solution for you
23:58:52 <Flygon> Is to be able to vote for multiple people at once
23:58:59 <Flygon> In order from Most Preferable to Least Preferable
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