IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-01-30
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09:01:47 <V453000> no starting a new project
09:02:58 <V453000> just for a little while :)
09:03:08 <andythenorth> there is a correct number of projects to have
09:03:10 <V453000> just 3 people care about it on the forums anyway
09:03:17 <andythenorth> nobody cares about my sets :(
09:03:22 <V453000> The Community does not demand it
09:03:32 <andythenorth> The Community is never wrong
09:03:51 <V453000> nah I just got kind of stuck when making new maglev ... and I have some groundbreakingly superb ideas for a train set
09:04:29 <V453000> I also almost have the maglev actually done, so might as well finish that
09:05:12 <andythenorth> stop talking, start making my train set
09:05:30 <andythenorth> I wish you’d render me some slighty-realisms ships also
09:05:34 <andythenorth> and slightly-chibi
09:05:48 <andythenorth> with the right length for broken stupid TTD lengths
09:05:55 <andythenorth> then I could paint them with pixels
09:06:02 <V453000> this train stuff will be 4/8 super chibi
09:06:50 <V453000> I dare say it will be so awesome, it will make andythenorth play the game
09:07:03 <andythenorth> I am playing the game :P
09:07:50 <V453000> current state of maglev
09:08:02 <V453000> only need to rework the ground of the tracks
09:08:08 <V453000> the middle rail should be done
09:08:50 <V453000> idea in junctions is that the white "track duct" will be visible from the beginning, and the blue part is the overlay ... that way, you just turn the tracks on - so they light up, you don't build new ones
09:09:19 <V453000> is meant to be a very electric track :) also, maglev trains can now hug the rail
09:09:40 <andythenorth> yair that looks better idea than original maglev
09:10:21 <V453000> yeah, concrete slabs are boring as fuck
09:10:29 <V453000> also look HORRIBLE in junctions
09:10:43 <andythenorth> most horribilest thing ever
09:10:49 <V453000> while junctions are the biggest advantage of this
09:10:57 <andythenorth> what will you do for PBS overlay?
09:11:01 <andythenorth> more electricity?
09:11:13 <V453000> yeah that is an issue, it will make the electrical part get grey
09:11:27 <V453000> but can't do much with that, players can disable the reserved tracks at most
09:11:38 <andythenorth> brighter overlays
09:11:46 <V453000> hm, that would be awesome yes
09:11:53 <andythenorth> seems obvious idea
09:12:10 <V453000> I did realize that but didn't conclude it with asking for a patch :P
09:14:07 <V453000> back to modelling the best train set ever :P
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11:07:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so I’m removing most of the gaps from most FIRS industries
11:07:44 <andythenorth> still bothering you?
11:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm usually not bothered by things while they are not in my field of view :p
11:08:37 <andythenorth> still worth me removing them?
11:08:59 <andythenorth> did I mention that FIRS compiles *really* fast with pypy3? :P
11:09:54 <Wolf01> I liked industries with gaps :(
11:10:16 <Wolf01> put a flag to enable it
11:12:18 <andythenorth> Wolf01: any particular ones you like?
11:12:25 <andythenorth> I am leaving some, for....reasons
11:18:32 <Wolf01> the farms, the rubber plantantion
11:18:49 <Wolf01> the copper ore mines are boring and you can remove the gap
11:18:54 <andythenorth> yeah the farms I am leaving
11:19:06 <andythenorth> otherwise they block landscape
11:19:12 <andythenorth> and the town industries I am leaving
11:21:01 <andythenorth> dairy has to lose the gap
11:23:54 <Alberth> less unique identification at the mini map :)
11:25:05 <andythenorth> I always use that flashing thing frosch added :)
11:29:17 <Wolf01> V did you see I found your bridge on an anime? :D
11:32:06 <V453000> but yeah it is strongly inspired with some bridge in brazil or where
11:33:12 <V453000> k not so far . Arganzuela Footbridge (2010) – Madrid, Spain
11:35:54 <Alberth> warm country, close enough :)
11:37:02 <Wolf01> calatrava bridges look nice, too bad they are good only in a virtual reality... too much maintenance and problems
11:37:22 <Wolf01> he should do game graphics instead of real things
11:37:49 <Alberth> nah, VR is obviously still lacking some realism :p
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11:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> at least it's not as terrible as the default/opengfx maglev
11:54:30 <andythenorth> I like the weird corrugations
11:54:37 <andythenorth> I’m not sure they’re good
11:54:46 <V453000> I think if I add some more details to them, they will be fine
11:54:57 <V453000> in corners they look weird but almost anything does
11:55:05 <andythenorth> it’s where they join the terrain in \ / that looks weird
11:55:06 <V453000> more details/noise to distort the perfect shapes helps a ton there
11:55:08 <andythenorth> like they’re floating
11:55:28 <Wolf01> yes, it looks really better the new one, the one with the parallel steps was too weird in NS and WE directions
11:55:32 <andythenorth> finish them in a straight edge?
11:55:49 <V453000> yeah tha should probably finish with straight edge indeed
11:56:40 <andythenorth> can roads cross maglev?
12:00:40 <andythenorth> forests are unsatisfactory
12:01:50 <andythenorth> they should really have fields, like farms
12:01:57 <andythenorth> or be spread over a wider area
12:02:14 <andythenorth> I considered the lumber mill option, but planting trees manually is very boring
12:03:10 <andythenorth> someone made a grf that spreads forests out much wider, with tracks to cutting areas?
12:05:31 <Alberth> the pax fork of firs by mczapkie?
12:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so unless you're going to implement NewGRF fields in the near future, don't worry about it.
12:07:06 <Alberth> yeah, forests provide sufficient challenge at their size :)
12:08:52 <andythenorth> possibly I need to animate them cutting wood
12:09:36 <Alberth> animation is always nice :)
12:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what the problem is. the original growth animation seems fine to me
12:15:23 <andythenorth> it’s not re-implemented in FIRS
12:16:37 <Alberth> mostly, it looks fine rather than being fine :p
12:17:21 <Alberth> it abuses construction stages :p
12:19:35 * andythenorth leaves the gap in junk yard
12:19:42 <andythenorth> some annoyances are by design
12:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i have nothing against gaps, but they were kinda getting out of hand
12:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> also, when you have gaps, you need more variations in layout
12:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean like 10 or more
12:32:06 <andythenorth> I have eliminated most of them now
12:32:43 <andythenorth> except for farm-type industries
12:33:21 <andythenorth> for which newgrf fields would be a better solution :P
12:33:28 <andythenorth> but eh, some things will never be done :)
13:22:29 <andythenorth> do rivers know their spring point?
13:23:07 * andythenorth wonders about enforcing that there must be always at least one edge between spring node and some endpoint
13:23:13 <andythenorth> so that rivers could be re-routed, but not cut
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13:28:34 <V453000> btw does a base set HAVE to supply x2 sprites?
13:28:36 <andythenorth> bah, translators need to get busy
13:28:46 <andythenorth> FIRS compile is full of yellow “translation outdated” warnings
13:29:14 <Alberth> add a suppression flag?
13:30:02 <andythenorth> I could use —quiet
13:30:07 <andythenorth> but some of the warnings are useful
13:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> --no-translation
13:30:38 <andythenorth> sounds like lang files would be ignored?
13:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> -wno-translation
13:31:33 <Wolf01> argoneus, do you know if monsters in diablo 3 have specific resistances?
13:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> also, something like this would go in your makefile.local
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13:32:04 <andythenorth> rather than Makefile?
13:32:16 <andythenorth> ok a local option
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13:32:29 <andythenorth> V453000: that’s pretty winning
13:32:49 <andythenorth> it’s interesting that you have a greige landscape
13:32:50 <argoneus> they have different elemental resistances
13:33:04 <V453000> now I just need to get the junctions/slopes/stuff done
13:33:19 <V453000> but getting it to look like this was the hardest part
13:33:24 <V453000> junctions will be easy
13:33:34 <V453000> grey landscape is pretty nice tbh
13:33:39 <V453000> you immediately see where stuff is
13:33:42 <andythenorth> I used greige in UI design
13:33:45 <V453000> very good for orientation
13:33:47 <Wolf01> the wiki doesn't say anything, and I found that I do more damage to ice resistant (I suppose) monsters with ice
13:33:47 <andythenorth> white is too stark
13:33:48 <Alberth> amazing, such a simple change having such an impact
13:34:07 <andythenorth> greige = warm grey, strictly it’s the name for the colour of raw silk
13:34:58 <V453000> ooh I also need to make tunnels, road crossings, and place the tracks onto bridges :P
13:36:02 <andythenorth> V453000: ^ maybe it’s a bit too tasteful :)
13:36:06 <andythenorth> is V453000 tasteful? :P
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17:22:58 <frosch123> i remembered why i did not yet patch firs
17:23:04 <frosch123> because it is not written in nml
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17:25:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: it is written in a beautiful car-crash of macro languages
17:25:52 <andythenorth> what’s not to like?
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17:34:12 <V453000> frosch123: is it possible to get a patch which would allow defining custom reserved-track overlay sprites? aka not just greyed out overlay, but something colourful
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17:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: like introduce an action5?
17:35:13 <frosch123> in theory yes, but is it any good?
17:35:20 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: we have railtypes?
17:35:22 <V453000> I have no clue what does action5 mean Eddi
17:35:32 <frosch123> V453000: not relevant since 2010
17:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: action5 is the standard method to extend the base set
17:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause> unless it's actionA, i always mix those up...
17:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i don't really know how new railtypes work
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17:37:30 <V453000> anyway, I think custom overlay sprites would make a lot of sense for anything really
17:38:07 <V453000> and anything like maglev powered tracks with visual feedback when the electricity turns on at the segments where trains is, would be pretty awesome
17:38:10 <frosch123> anyway, if it would be done, it would be: new item in the graphics section (for example "path_overlay"), if defined it is drawn directly on top of everything; if not defined the normal track_overlay is drawn in greyscale
17:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but, do you want to have options for a different recolour, or only for a completely different sprite?
17:38:45 <V453000> yeah exactly frosch123 , that would work perfectly
17:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: would that need a callback flag?
17:38:53 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: recolour is pretty useless for 32bpp :p
17:38:54 <V453000> different sprite Eddi
17:39:23 <Mazur> Weirdest thing: got a new PC, hook up a keyboard, a wireless mouse, and a screen, power on, nothing happens.
17:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine callbacks for railtype are rather time critical
17:39:27 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i believe the other optional parts have no flag either
17:39:41 <frosch123> no, they are not time critical, they only run for visible stuff
17:40:11 <frosch123> and only once per tile redrawn
17:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> then why were people so resistant to variables for railtypes?
17:40:41 <Mazur> Could it be because I should hook up hte screen to the other GPU? Neither is onboard.
17:40:56 * Mazur is for onc utterly baffled.
17:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: using wrong output connector would explain black screen...
17:41:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: some BIOS have a detection routine to check which output is connected
17:41:47 <Taede> forgetting to switch on the switch at the back of the power supply helps too
17:42:06 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that depends on the variable :) i was against "nearest town" unless it is cached, i am not against nearby tile info
17:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: do fans or hard disks spin up? does it beep?
17:42:26 <Mazur> Taede: second thing I checked, after the power cablee connetion.
17:42:55 <Mazur> So had to be power thing, RIGHT?
17:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> have you checked whether PSU is switched to 110V or 230V?
17:43:29 <Mazur> THey've had it running.
17:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: yes, that would point to a power problem
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17:44:28 <Mazur> Well, under desk cables are a mess, not even sure what connects what, so I should just clean them out and reuse one by one.
17:44:30 <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time mainboards had a "lock" that had to be bridged by a jumper
17:44:50 <Mazur> Can't be it, shop has had it running.
17:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it could also be hooked up to an actual lock
17:45:17 <Mazur> They even played Warcraft for a bit to test.
17:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, i'd double check the power cable
17:47:51 <Mazur> Thanks for the amoral support. As I'm getting older I get less assured of my knowledge.
17:49:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: extractive, organic and ports have different boost requirements... should i add separate parameters for the three types?
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18:05:15 <V453000> yay, logo guy never to be seen on tt-forums again
18:05:42 <V453000> shame he was working on 32bpp too
18:06:53 <frosch123> we continued a bit via pm :)
18:07:13 <frosch123> just like you and andy usually discuss stuff here
18:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> did i miss some drama?
18:09:59 <frosch123> it's just the usual 1st level support thing
18:10:20 <V453000> yeah I am exchanging PMs with him all the time
18:12:37 <V453000> honestly, if I didn't have as much fun and mainly work-useful experience from making NewGRFs, I would stop this instance.
18:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: recolour is pretty useless for 32bpp :p <-- so are we just going to call recolouring a deprecated feature and all future newgrf stuff will just ignore it exists?
18:14:02 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: even considering 8bpp, recolouring is pretty useless when only using *one* recolouring
18:14:17 <frosch123> it makes sense for cc with 16 recolouring variants
18:14:40 <frosch123> but for reserved/not reserved it is useless in any case
18:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: anyway, the proposed railtype callback will not help if you're making a base set
18:17:04 <frosch123> so, yes, in brix context there is no solution
18:17:39 <frosch123> add adding a separate solution just for basesets is definitely not worth it
18:19:31 <frosch123> we should rather look into options to make railtypes via action 3 baseset useable
18:20:00 <frosch123> (i.e. no property changes, only graphics, and automatically disabled when other grfs define railtypes)
18:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine how that would work
18:20:45 <V453000> forum cripple fight, round 1 go XD
18:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you distinguish "good" and "bad" action3 when scanning for static newgrfs?
18:21:36 <frosch123> the scanning is not exact anyway
18:21:46 <frosch123> it would rather be, do not call this callback for static grfs
18:22:07 <V453000> frosch123: ignore my request, I am going to get myself banned from the forums and top developing stuff anyway within the next hour most likely :D :P
18:22:43 <V453000> but for Other Authors, it would be nice to have it :P
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18:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so then static newgrfs could contain anything, but the semantics has more safeguards?
18:26:15 <frosch123> [18:25] <DorpsGek> You've given me 12 commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 5 minutes. <- fu, now i have find another calculator
18:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i never had that...
18:26:56 <andythenorth> start the faster one
18:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause> or wolfram alpha
18:27:26 <andythenorth> frosch123: internally there are parameters for the different classes of industry; externally, I think it’s just one parameter
18:27:33 <frosch123> what's the "power" operator in python?
18:27:37 <frosch123> ** or ^ or something else?
18:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a operator
18:28:04 <andythenorth> anybody who needs to have separate control over farms, mines, ports supply boost can (1) accept their need is not met (2) patch
18:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ^ is usually XOR
18:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i used to be in a channel which had a matlab bot
18:30:21 <andythenorth> Mazur: have you turned it on and off again?
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18:37:35 <Alberth> hmm, expected 50% greyed out junctions, but it was very different :)
18:38:03 <Alberth> or turned it off and on again?
18:38:20 <V453000> well yeah gray is an option
18:38:27 <V453000> but the blue is so dark that it should be just fine
18:38:47 <Alberth> tracks look splendid with the circuits
18:39:24 <Alberth> makes no sense wrt realism, but it adds a lot
18:39:58 <Alberth> makes the track much more fun to look at
18:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: imho the not-placed tracks should have no circuits
18:40:52 <V453000> that is an option as well, yes Eddi
18:41:02 <V453000> though I prefer them to be barely visible for now
18:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be easily visible at a glance where tracks are and where not. the default maglev are terrible at that
18:42:08 <andythenorth> V453000: keep the circuit etch shape, just knock it to grey
18:42:17 <andythenorth> otherwise you’ll have no texture
18:42:19 <V453000> well this is very visible Eddi, isn't it
18:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the vertical tracks have an offset problem
18:42:52 <andythenorth> V453000: otherwise it’s done, done done
18:43:06 <V453000> andythenorth: making one junction takes almost an hour, saying done is .. :P
18:43:13 <V453000> + tunnels bridges crossings, ...
18:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the gap to the left barrier switches between 1px and 2px
18:43:17 <andythenorth> well it’s conceptually done done done
18:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> makes the line look wobbly
18:43:26 <V453000> that is possible Eddi, yes
18:43:28 <andythenorth> finally, somebody solved maglev
18:43:44 <andythenorth> can you do an 8bpp classic TTD version of this? :P
18:43:58 <andythenorth> I want maglev in Iron Horse, but default track is so…
18:44:05 <andythenorth> [no need to say the words]
18:44:06 <V453000> can, would be hard, will, not worth the effort
18:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes, it's visible that there are no tracks, if you concentrate on it. but if you glance at the whole screen, and don't have it in focus, it could be easier if there were no barriers and no circuits
18:46:05 <V453000> barriers have to be there, that is the whole reason why the junctions are working
18:46:12 <V453000> because the overlays are not 3D
18:46:29 <V453000> well they are, but planar ... is what I mean
18:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i think no-barriers need a "whole crossing" overlay
18:46:57 <V453000> yes which is a feature I don't currently have :P
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18:47:11 <V453000> and bright blue looks clear enough to me to demonstrate where tracks are
18:47:25 <V453000> far better than original/ogfx/zbase maglev for sure
18:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just saying it's not optimal in my eyes
18:48:42 <V453000> I might try to toy with the colour of the wires but that is all
18:48:43 <Mazur> andythenorth: several times.
18:48:57 <andythenorth> swapped leads, checked fuses?
18:49:20 <V453000> I was also thinking green/red
18:49:32 <V453000> but 2nd colour is rather disturbing and green does not look so electric
18:49:48 <andythenorth> don’t mix colours
18:49:56 <andythenorth> I thought of red, but I made it in my head, looked bad
18:50:00 <Mazur> Just now i unearthed ghte lead from behind my desk, pokugging it in along hte front, and the speakers bopped.
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18:51:08 <Mazur> Other stuff plugged in works, so no fuse problem.
18:52:15 <andythenorth> PSU have any trip or reset or fuse?
18:52:22 * andythenorth hasn’t touched this stuff for 10 years or more
18:56:34 <Mazur> Trouble is, front panel only has a single touch button, so no idea as to whether anything is happening there or not.
18:56:56 <Mazur> But it shouldbe lighted in case of power, I'm guessing.
19:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you just missed some secondary switch
19:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> pr some cable got loose on the inside
19:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried reaching the shop?
19:14:07 <Mazur> No, mhy dahy is out of step, so when I got to this point, they were already closed.
19:14:20 <Mazur> Never mind,I'll find it.
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19:47:28 <V453000> only the most complex junction remains \o/
19:47:52 <andythenorth> and I have knocked off some of the boring housekeeping jobs for FIRS 2 :P
19:47:56 <andythenorth> everyone’s a winner eh?
19:48:01 <argoneus> what are you compiling frosch123
19:48:25 <andythenorth> how long did it take? o_O
19:48:38 <frosch123> less long than writing the code :p
19:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> one would hope that :p
19:49:14 <frosch123> 55s with disabled mp
19:49:46 <frosch123> but the parameter gui does not work as expected
19:50:38 <frosch123> oh, i just did not know my own specification
19:50:44 <frosch123> so, nothing unusual :)
19:52:52 <andythenorth> try it with pypy3 :P
19:54:02 <andythenorth> kind of requires faffing with a virtualenv
19:54:06 <andythenorth> for sanity’s sake
19:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems way too complicated
19:56:29 <andythenorth> well it does require typing
19:56:35 <andythenorth> so probably yes :D
20:08:11 <frosch123> now i would actually have to play a test game...
20:09:34 <V453000> that is seriously great
20:14:03 <Alberth> 200% for 315 crates, haha major havoc :)
20:15:12 <andythenorth> also I was _thinking_ about making the secondary production window a parameter
20:15:23 <andythenorth> I set it to 90 days for v2, it was 30 days in v1
20:15:34 <andythenorth> it’s a global constant, so quite trivial to parameterise
20:15:42 <andythenorth> but I don’t like too many parameters :)
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20:17:48 <V453000> parameters are good for something so wtf complex like FIRS
20:17:55 <V453000> it is basically 6 newgrfs in one
20:18:15 <V453000> especially if defaults just work
20:18:21 <V453000> and the parameters are just extra stuff to fiddle with
20:20:20 * andythenorth wonders if anyone ever sees them anyway
20:20:31 <andythenorth> I don’t think I’d know about them if I didn’t make newgrfs
20:20:55 <andythenorth> ‘parameters’ sounds dangerous
20:20:55 <V453000> well you are a special case
20:22:35 <andythenorth> frosch123: have you found the industry extra text strings?
20:22:48 <andythenorth> oh yeah, they’re in the screenshot
20:24:00 <Alberth> you write about them in the documentation?
20:26:51 <andythenorth> this is the most I say file:///Users/andy/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build/docs/html/get_started.html#setting-up
20:26:56 <andythenorth> oops, not the internet :)
20:34:58 <Alberth> room for expansion there :)
20:51:09 <andythenorth> I’ve rearranged it to make room
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21:08:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: the "3 months" is not easy to change at all
21:08:16 <andythenorth> for secondaries?
21:08:17 <frosch123> you have 3 registers which store the production from past 3 months
21:08:24 <andythenorth> it’s a single global constant iirc
21:08:52 <andythenorth> unless I only *thought* that worked :)
21:09:35 <frosch123> secondary? i was on the primary page
21:09:58 <andythenorth> I have my own mini-project
21:10:06 <andythenorth> I am wondering how many parameters is too many :P
21:10:10 <frosch123> ah, for delivering multiple cargos
21:10:16 <frosch123> i think 3 months is fine there
21:10:21 <frosch123> does not need a parameter
21:10:46 * andythenorth will delete the ‘todo'
21:10:53 <frosch123> anyway, which economy/climate should i play?
21:11:06 <frosch123> when i am playing a test game, i can also test stuff :p
21:11:17 <V453000> frosch123: [20:49] <@Mark> now just need a parameter to increase farm initial production
21:11:24 <V453000> is a good point actually
21:11:32 <andythenorth> will you play with SV, or something else, or no GS?
21:11:54 <andythenorth> I like the basic economies
21:12:34 <andythenorth> I would play Arctic Basic with Iron Horse or OGFX +
21:12:53 <andythenorth> although it misses correct sprites for 2.5 industries
21:12:58 <frosch123> i want to play iron horse
21:13:07 <frosch123> but i don't like the chemicals in arctic :p
21:13:13 <andythenorth> Temperate Basic is most appropriate for Iron Horse :)
21:13:16 <frosch123> is hot country any good?
21:13:26 <andythenorth> I played IAHC, and really like it
21:13:37 <andythenorth> it’s better balanced ‘big’ economy than full FIRS
21:13:42 <andythenorth> due to experience gained
21:13:49 <frosch123> ok, so IAHC and horse
21:13:51 <andythenorth> but I need Busy Bee or I lose interest :)
21:14:08 <andythenorth> if you get nightly Iron Horse, you get more cargo support, FYI
21:14:36 <frosch123> are there meaningful town supplies? or would i even bother delivering towns?
21:14:46 <andythenorth> there is food and so on
21:14:59 * andythenorth checks town growth cargos
21:15:39 <andythenorth> goods and food for desert towns
21:15:51 <andythenorth> it’s intended for tropic
21:15:52 <frosch123> V453000: why specifically farms?
21:16:01 <frosch123> or is this just cluster hatred?
21:16:05 <andythenorth> but then you might have terragenisis rage :P
21:16:10 <V453000> farms have very low starting production don't they
21:16:17 <V453000> tbh I haven't player FIRS ina while personally
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21:16:27 <andythenorth> FIRS v2 unwinds some of the silliest mistakes
21:16:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: you don’t use RVs, right?
21:18:31 <frosch123> i use heqs trams for feeders
21:19:38 * andythenorth waves at Road Hog
21:19:47 <andythenorth> but eh, I know RVs aren’t for everyone :P
21:27:43 <frosch123> ah, lucky :) i was worried i had to pick a roster
21:27:59 <andythenorth> there’s only one that works right now
21:28:07 <andythenorth> parameters are a PITA though :)
21:28:54 <frosch123> good start date for iron horse?
21:29:06 <andythenorth> any time from 1860
21:29:14 <andythenorth> trains are relatively fast in the Brit roster
21:29:27 <andythenorth> you might want Termite, up to you
21:29:34 <andythenorth> gains you metro and narrow gauge
21:29:39 <frosch123> hmm, what was that again ...
21:29:45 <andythenorth> metro is only useful for pax
21:30:08 <frosch123> but, no, i don't like track sets
21:30:11 <frosch123> too complicated for me
21:30:30 <frosch123> i want a single mixed cargo train network
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21:32:41 <andythenorth> I could give away what does what in Iron Horse, but I am intrigued
21:33:00 <andythenorth> it’s simple enough, but has 1 layer or so of extra depth that you can use or ignore
21:33:09 <andythenorth> I’ll see what you conclude :P
21:34:05 <frosch123> still batteling the mapgen :p
21:34:15 <andythenorth> it’s hateful in tropic
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21:54:30 <frosch123> oh, factorio hotkeys to not work in ottd
21:55:48 <frosch123> no idea what a combine car is
21:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd call it "Mähdrescher"
21:57:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (unless it's something completely different)
21:57:50 <andythenorth> it’s mail+pax car
21:58:03 <andythenorth> US terminology, completely wrong for en-gb
21:58:19 <andythenorth> probably some twee term like ‘passenger brake’ in UK
21:58:26 <V453000> frosch123 facroiorized
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22:00:16 <V453000> this is fucking mayhem
22:00:25 <V453000> making stupid ass junctions for all of evening
22:00:30 <V453000> the result is splendid
22:00:36 <V453000> but the time efficiency is zero XD
22:01:10 <andythenorth> srsly, might as well add 8bpp export :P
22:01:20 <andythenorth> as you have zero efficiency anyway
22:01:21 <V453000> I do have 8bpp sprites
22:01:35 <V453000> but converted 8bpp ain't pixel pushed pixel art
22:02:35 <andythenorth> downscale with nearest neighbour it will do
22:02:37 <V453000> but converted 8bpp better than borked 8bpp mode
22:02:43 <V453000> downscale is not the problem
22:02:47 <V453000> pallette conversion is
22:02:55 <andythenorth> how many sprites is it?
22:03:01 <V453000> fuckload at the moment
22:03:09 <andythenorth> too many for me to fix
22:03:15 <andythenorth> 3500 just for maglev?
22:03:16 <V453000> in like 5 files though :P
22:03:31 <andythenorth> how many for maglev, to nearest 100?
22:04:59 <andythenorth> not too many to fix
22:05:06 <andythenorth> that was similar number
22:05:11 <andythenorth> all climates crap
22:05:18 <argoneus> we are 3 for new diablo season
22:05:39 <V453000> well ... will see how it turns out
22:05:44 <argoneus> V453000 come grind with us
22:06:00 <V453000> atm I do support 8bpp sprites with valid sprites, but not with pixel pushed proper sprites
22:06:14 <V453000> argoneus: I am grinding polygons with hope to get a newgrf
22:06:18 <V453000> drop rates are utter shit though
22:06:45 <V453000> it actually is as fast as if I was doing it with a rock yes
22:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: converting palette is done in two easy steps. convert with the reduced palette (no magic colours), then apply the original palette
22:07:31 <V453000> yes Eddi, that is what I am doing ... except I always forget to remove magic colours
22:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to convert the recolour mask as well, things get tricky
22:07:39 <frosch123> i am at 150 m³ alcohol per month
22:07:41 <V453000> but that still does not give a pixel-precise pixel-artish result
22:07:46 <frosch123> but it is made from maize, so not sure...
22:07:47 <V453000> conversion != x1 pixel art
22:07:58 <argoneus> V453000: hope you have it done soon
22:08:02 <argoneus> seems like you're having tons of fun
22:08:18 <Wolf01> argoneus, are you starting a new hero?
22:08:50 <Wolf01> ok, maybe in a day or two, I'm grinding at T4 now
22:09:09 <V453000> argoneus: yeah, not going to happen soon :D
22:09:16 <V453000> still, not interested in grinding some diablo, sorry
22:09:54 <V453000> have a good time though :)
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22:32:07 <frosch123> why can i transport alcohol in an open wagon, but not in a tank wagon?
22:38:11 <Supercheese> when you transport alcohol in an edibles tanker, it should be renamed to a tankard
22:38:47 <Supercheese> and don't let the YETIs near it
22:38:56 <Supercheese> you don't want to see a drunk yeti
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22:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'm missing a joke in there
22:43:06 <Supercheese> giant beer stein on rails
22:44:20 <frosch123> a drunken yeti snoring on a flat wagon?
22:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> how did it happen that english people call a "bierkrug" a "stein"?
22:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no german ever used that word in this context
22:45:18 <Supercheese> according to wikipedia: ""Stein" is an abbreviation of German Steinzeug "stoneware",["
22:45:26 <Supercheese> and apparently someone took that and ran with it
22:45:30 <Supercheese> likely while drunk
22:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but a bierkrug isn't even made of stone...
22:46:09 <V453000> apparently someone thinks that germans have their stuff made of stone
22:46:17 <Supercheese> when it comes to alcohol-related terms, it's best not to think too much about it
22:46:28 <Supercheese> same for drug terminology
22:52:27 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: clay is some type of stone, isn't it?
22:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: more like some kind of sand
22:53:55 <frosch123> uhm... how do distant join road stops?
22:54:28 <frosch123> do i recall correctly that someone unified ctrl to remove stuff?
22:54:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember that
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22:55:11 <frosch123> i hit the wrong keys again
22:56:10 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: earlier i wrote "to" instead of "do"
22:56:23 <frosch123> in average i am correct
22:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> on average, the river was 1m deep :p
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23:00:38 <frosch123> did andy find a way to break breakdowns?
23:00:45 <frosch123> i haven't seen a single breakdown yet
23:01:20 <V453000> well you can set reliability decay to 0
23:01:25 <V453000> but I guess you should still see some
23:03:23 <andythenorth> did I break them? :o
23:03:52 <frosch123> no idea, maybe ottd is broken :p
23:05:46 <andythenorth> now FIRS is broken with pypy3
23:05:51 <andythenorth> that’s interesting
23:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: at least if "it works" is no longer a requirement, you can do some pretty decent speed upgrades :p
23:07:53 <andythenorth> back to py32 then :(
23:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> like "lossy sort" :p
23:08:58 <V453000> still some details to fix here and there, but the main stuff is done
23:10:01 <andythenorth> did you change some colours also?
23:10:11 <andythenorth> definitely better with desaturated unused track
23:10:29 <andythenorth> oh yeah base is less green
23:10:33 <V453000> the only colours changed are the wrinkly ground to desaturated concrete, and desaturated wires
23:10:41 <V453000> yeah less yellow/green
23:10:43 <andythenorth> and gained contrast on the base
23:11:05 <andythenorth> seriously good now
23:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that looks better
23:11:15 <andythenorth> not good enough to get me off classic 8bpp TTD style
23:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause> now fix the alignment of the vertical tracks... it drives me nuts :p
23:11:42 <V453000> yeah I will see what is going on there
23:12:23 <V453000> was just reasonless move of the thing
23:17:51 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: fixed :) thanks for noticing
23:18:07 <V453000> if you want to be more nuts, I got some other bugs that you cannot unsee :P
23:18:18 <frosch123> found a breakdown \o/
23:18:27 <Eddi|zuHause> nah thanks, i'm fine :p
23:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow the flash and the html5 version of youtube ended up with slight differences in hotkeys
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23:39:07 <sim-al2> Hi guys, stupid question time: For basic NFO bytes, like in the train example on the newgrf specs wiki, how does D8 0E become 3800?
23:40:37 <frosch123> @calc 0x0E << 8 | 0xD8
23:40:37 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
23:40:44 <frosch123> @calc 0x0E * 2**8 | 0xD8
23:40:44 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
23:40:46 <frosch123> @calc 0x0E * 2**8 + 0xD8
23:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> 0E is the high byte, D8 is the low byte. so you have 0*16^3+E*16^2+D*16+8
23:41:07 <frosch123> anyway, better use "\w 3800"
23:43:11 * andythenorth makes better chemical plant sprites
23:43:23 <andythenorth> that aren’t just oil refinery and fertiliser plant combined :P
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23:45:06 <sim-al2> Ok thanks, didn't realize that the bytes were "backwards" so to speak
23:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's a weird thing to wrap your head around initially
23:46:20 <sim-al2> I think I'm doing pretty well, figured out how to decompile a grf and wading through the long lines of bytes looking for the power ones 0.o
23:46:28 <frosch123> sim-al2: that's why you use escape sequences :) "D8 0E" = "\wx ED8" = "\w 3800"
23:48:33 <glx> would have been different if TTD wasn't written for a LE CPU
23:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: instead of battling with decompiled NFO, you could just write an add-on GRF with nml
23:50:09 <sim-al2> I just want to increase the power a bit, writing a whole new thing seems a lot harder
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