IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-01-17
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00:29:40 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
01:44:47 * Mazur just returned from hours of TV.
01:44:50 <Hydros> there's an interesting topic that has come up, which licence to choose for the new identity/logo gfx
01:44:56 <Hydros> I thought about CC initially, naturally
01:45:20 <Hydros> how do we release all the game gfx, everything is CC?
01:45:39 <Mazur> Ah, an area which I have not involved myself in, yet.
01:45:59 <glx> game gfx are a mix of image and code
01:46:07 <Hydros> the newgfx packs, yes.
01:46:18 <Hydros> ah I see so the whole pack HAS to be released as CC
01:46:27 <Hydros> well, matching licence of the whole project, GPL
01:46:34 <Mazur> Not GNU Library thingy?
01:46:48 <Hydros> see I was thinking, CC for identity gfx is actually not appropriate and has no advantage
01:47:18 <glx> but many licences are used for newgrf files
01:47:54 <Hydros> right, newGRF are addons they aren't part of the project so they don't need to comply with licensing requirements
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04:21:30 <myztic> is the openttd tutorial series (master hellish) any good
04:21:49 <myztic> on first glance it at least seems to cover most of openttd
04:22:05 <myztic> (mean the series on youtube)
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08:29:41 <peter1138> well probably just a thin layer
08:30:36 <andythenorth> all the things at once
08:36:23 <andythenorth> also maybe Horse
09:41:03 <Pikka> hello andythenorth and V and others
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10:05:59 <Mazur> By Grabthar's Hammer, it _is_ a good morning!
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10:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a quantifyable threshold for when a morning is "good"?
10:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause> we had like 3mm of snow...
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10:40:30 <andythenorth> cargo label for 'edible oil' ?
10:43:32 <andythenorth> so the newgrf wiki blocks safari, but not chrome
10:44:50 <andythenorth> ach no, neither work, /me was wrong
11:13:30 <andythenorth> V453000 what doing? o_O
11:13:33 <Pikka> weren't there oilseeds or something before?
11:14:57 <andythenorth> this is the squishy stuff you cook chips in though
11:15:02 <Pikka> otherwise just make it livestock like UKRS milk ;)
11:16:09 <andythenorth> Pikka: have you been away working for money? o_O
11:16:36 <Pikka> and from march I will be working + uni
11:18:15 <andythenorth> transport co-ordinator?
11:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> how is oil livestock? animals only produce solid (saturated) fats, liquid (unsaturated) fats come from plants or fish
11:19:53 <andythenorth> same way milk is :)
11:20:02 <Pikka> it isn't, but putting inappropriate things in tankers is a tradition
11:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> solid/liquid at room temperature
11:23:35 <andythenorth> a silly tradition :)
11:35:53 <V453000> andythenorth: enormous amount of progress with BRIX lately
11:36:04 <V453000> not much super visible stuff, but rather under the hood technical shit
11:40:27 <andythenorth> how do I make this not just same tank sprite on every tile?
11:49:27 <V453000> have them in groups I guess
11:53:30 <andythenorth> eh I can do pipes and stuff
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12:29:37 <argoneus> turns out VS15 is not very good software
12:30:01 <argoneus> you need to enable microsoft language extensions to compile code that uses the stdlib
12:30:07 <argoneus> else you get hundreds of linker errors
12:30:45 <Eddi|zuHause> is there even such a thing as "very good software"?
12:32:12 <argoneus> how does this even happen
12:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ottd is clearly terribly designed software that barely holds together
12:32:36 <argoneus> ottd seems well specified to me
12:32:47 <argoneus> bit-perfect tailored code
12:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ottd is a giant pile of historically grown wrong design decisions
12:35:19 <argoneus> time to rewrite it in haskell
12:36:24 <Alberth> you will soon find out real-world programs and functional programming don't go well together :p
12:36:36 <andythenorth> yes but can you mathematically prove that?
12:36:45 <argoneus> but people over in #haskell say how great funcprog is for real-world problems
12:36:48 <andythenorth> functional programming is pure
12:36:53 <andythenorth> everything is contractual
12:37:00 <argoneus> that you can define a domain specific language for your problem pretty much
12:37:01 <andythenorth> there is no chance of anything muting state behind your back
12:37:05 <argoneus> and then it's easy to maintain
12:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i have used functional-ish concepts in my python programs
12:37:25 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: functional-ish doesn't count
12:37:53 <andythenorth> nothing but _pure_ functional programming will save us from the clear failure of OO concepts and practice
12:37:58 <andythenorth> it's mathematically provable
12:38:23 <argoneus> it forces you to think within a certain mindset
12:38:26 <argoneus> that may not make sense for your problem
12:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and functional is not limiting?
12:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> or forcing you into a mindset?
12:38:35 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: I haven't done funcprog enough to comment on that
12:38:40 <argoneus> but from what they say not really
12:38:44 <argoneus> that's just parroting though
12:39:02 <andythenorth> from boilerplate import *
12:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> functional programming is used in universities around the planet do break the minds of young programmers.
12:41:35 <Alberth> it's a nice paradigm, but it believes programs are simple input/output functions, which just fails in real world
12:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> because universities want you to un-learn all the misconceptions you have from dabbling in your early programming days
12:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, most of my "real world" programs are processes. i.e. you have a constant stream of inputs and a constant stream of outputs, and it never terminates.
12:45:53 <argoneus> that's where monads come in :>
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13:01:41 <V453000> the gray balls look flat
13:01:58 <V453000> the bottom right side needs shadows I think
13:04:01 <andythenorth> those things are used in about 50 different industries :P
13:04:48 <V453000> doesnt make them any better :P
13:06:03 <V453000> btw I will probably have various releases of BRIX, with various landscape colours
13:06:33 <V453000> so people can choose between desaturated/green/darker green/desert-ish/...
13:10:21 <V453000> I got it all automated, so I just need to figure out how to change the materials to the various colours with as low amount of effort as possible
13:13:10 <andythenorth> maybe that's done, for now at least
13:13:47 <V453000> still them balls though :P
13:13:51 <andythenorth> something a bit off about it
13:14:00 <andythenorth> needs a tanker barge is one thing
13:14:04 <V453000> shadow at the bottom right is missing
13:14:32 <V453000> and perhaps some on the right/top right as well
13:14:46 <V453000> to make the edges darker
13:14:58 <andythenorth> lacks definitiion?
13:18:30 <V453000> probably needs it also a bit at the top
13:20:12 * andythenorth needs it in a cutout png :P
13:20:12 <V453000> feel free to use it :)
13:21:59 <V453000> lol one RAWR png is 75 MB XD
13:22:02 <V453000> all sprites for one climate
13:22:22 <V453000> and do you have a sprite of 1 bally thing?
13:22:35 <V453000> me bets they are copypasted
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13:27:12 <andythenorth> I don't have a single one
13:27:21 <andythenorth> but do the front one, I'll figure out the other 3
13:28:12 <V453000> I did the front one in the screenshot already :P
13:28:26 <andythenorth> it's got AA crap in it :)
13:28:32 <andythenorth> maybe from the screenshot or something?
13:28:44 <V453000> yeah idk what screenshot software are you using
13:28:53 <V453000> will fix the one in the actual sprite
13:29:09 <V453000> need to make model for road crossing now, will do your sprite when it renders
13:29:49 <andythenorth> anyone played tropico?
13:32:00 <Wolf01> tropico is fun, but I never managed to win :D
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14:02:35 <V453000> I believe that should do it
14:11:55 <V453000> feel free to use in any way you like ... I also left there the sources for stuff so you can reuse it individually :P
14:13:02 <andythenorth> going to copy-paste to all the other spritesheets using it :)
14:19:39 <andythenorth> looks *much* better in game
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19:45:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27499 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt korean.txt) (2016-01-17 19:45:36 +0100 )
19:45:47 <DorpsGek> korean: 34 changes by telk5093
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> catalan: 10 changes by juanjo
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20:22:32 <Wolf01> meh, no diablo this evening, blizzy ran out of servers :(
20:24:40 <frosch123> has there always been a mapeditor in F ?
20:25:01 <frosch123> (not that I would care, generated maps are better)
20:29:47 <V453000> I think there was, at least for a long time
20:30:04 <V453000> but yeah I never used it either
20:30:05 <andythenorth> I wish I hadn't upgraded mercurial :(
20:30:06 <V453000> but yeah I never used it either
20:31:01 * andythenorth is having 'nothing works' trouble :P
20:32:01 <V453000> luckily I never updated tortoise hg
20:32:25 <V453000> if tortoise would fuck up, I would probably just never fix it XD
20:34:05 <andythenorth> hg can't understand graphics files anymore
20:34:14 <andythenorth> so it just constantly reports them as changed
20:34:21 <andythenorth> making hg status useless
20:36:52 <Alberth> the editor writes meta data in it?
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20:40:39 <andythenorth> it's frustrating, because hg status can see the change, but hg commit can't
20:40:47 <andythenorth> so I have non-removable, non-commitable changes
20:41:07 <andythenorth> the only solution I've found is to rm -r src, then hg revert --all
20:41:17 <andythenorth> which is a horrible workflow
20:52:03 <Alberth> "hg status shows changed files but hg diff doesn't!"
20:56:26 <glx> multiple parents maybe then
20:56:57 <andythenorth> how does one get multiple parents in hg?
21:01:07 <andythenorth> is this why I was warned to never merge in hg?
21:06:02 <Alberth> hg diff --git (or is that standard in your setup?)
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21:34:28 <V453000> lol my highscore table is empty :d
21:38:19 <Alberth> mine is empty too btw, I never finish openttd :)
21:39:52 <V453000> I used to have some but myeah :D
21:40:14 <V453000> trying to upload BRIX screenshots fails badly, wifi fucked up :(
21:42:26 <V453000> BRIX is 12,5 GB folder atm :D
21:43:04 <V453000> almost 10GB is in 3D files though, which as latest version are only like 250 MB
21:43:24 <V453000> rest is sprites and renders though
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22:40:12 <argoneus> when you want to code something, and you're not sure how to structure it properly
22:40:27 <argoneus> instead of trying to make up a complex design, just code things that work and refactor as needed
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