IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-12-28
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00:00:02 <frosch123> glx: the first entry was finished by V in singleplayer
00:00:26 <frosch123> so, not coop kind of :p
00:07:01 <Keridos> can I automatically download mods on the dedicated server automatically?
00:08:20 <frosch123> there is the "content" console command
00:08:37 <frosch123> but not much "automatic"
00:08:53 <Keridos> so i just copy the config for the newgrf and the files from my client?
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00:10:29 <frosch123> Keridos: copy the grf and a savegame :)
00:11:06 <Keridos> eh, cant it generate a new world itself?
00:11:49 <drac_boy> bit unusual question maybe but mm any of you here on a forum for networking? (the ethernet/etc stuff yeah)
00:12:47 <Payl> drac_boy: what? are you asking if we know stuff about networking in general?
00:15:16 <Payl> so, while we talk about lags: boats contribute to lag by their awful pathfinding.. does station size/length matter? I suppose bigger station=more lag, but is it terrible growth or just minimal thing?
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00:16:02 <Keridos> holy crap I cannot find the newgrf files on my linux system
00:16:10 <Keridos> arent they saved in my home directory?
00:16:12 <drac_boy> pay1...well...technically its only one station piece to the cpu .. unless graphic animations were being used .. I dunno if thats the whole thing tbh
00:16:50 <drac_boy> keridos check you don't have hidden folders enabled .. should be something like ~user/.openttd
00:17:05 <Keridos> drac_boy: I have a folder in .config/openttd
00:17:05 <drac_boy> I think the wiki mentioned it btw
00:17:13 <Payl> i'm Payl, not pay1 :< :P
00:17:13 <Keridos> but there are not all the GRFs i have ingame
00:17:24 <drac_boy> keridos..again..did you check the user folder?
00:17:41 <drac_boy> ah..well either the wiki or someone else in here then, sorry :)
00:18:04 <Payl> Keridos: i think it might be important how u did install openttd
00:18:20 <Keridos> gentoo linux, per portage
00:19:19 <drac_boy> oh and btw nothing specific about networking now..just curious re there being so many different active forums
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00:21:05 <frosch123> Payl: station area does not matter anymore, it gained some cache some years ago
00:21:33 <Payl> frosch123: yeah thats what i saw but some sites did complain about that... thats a good news :P
00:21:46 <frosch123> but in the past the catchment area of the station mattered, since it would query it all the time for stuff getting delivered to the station
00:22:32 <Payl> frosch123: thats what i thought as well, but i seen some cache when i looked over openttd...
00:22:45 * drac_boy idly wonders if all of this is from ever-larger maps?
00:22:48 <Payl> i think now it only gets refreshed per few days or so...
00:23:34 <frosch123> the "per few days" is for the other direction :p stuff from station to houses/industries
00:24:02 <frosch123> houses still produce on their own, and then need to decide what station to give their stuff to
00:24:33 <Keridos> drac_boy: frosch123: it was in ~/.local/openttd
00:24:45 <Keridos> the old folder in config apparently was used in older versions
00:25:15 <Payl> frosch123: btw. is there way to tell them where to give stuff? Or for example dividing materials equally for many destinations connected to one station?
00:26:08 <frosch123> i generally recommend the good-gameplay solution :p small catch area, and tram feeder services
00:26:29 <drac_boy> I got to ask why two industries? :)
00:44:30 <debdog> oy people! trying OTTD for the first time, quite impressive! have not figured out one tiny thing yet. mayhap someone is able to enlighten me. what do the icons in front of the vehicles on the vehicle list mean?
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00:53:54 <debdog> yeah, the yellow dots in front of the buses and the blue lines and dots plus pluses in front of the trains
00:56:43 <glx> wow last time I played there were only green, yellow and red dots
00:56:50 <debdog> I've been reading the wiki quite often but did not stumble on that one yet
01:01:00 <drac_boy> anyway going afk for a bit
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03:09:21 <Eddi|zuHause> <glx> wow last time I played there were only green, yellow and red dots <-- that depends on whether you use original or opengfx
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04:00:01 <Keridos> can I disable cargodist in a running world somehow?
04:00:15 <Keridos> apparently our server decided to make the new world with cargodist everywhere
04:03:42 <Keridos> hm can I save a map seed somehow?
04:08:47 <Keridos> when I set the cargo dist to off
04:08:52 <Keridos> and then restart the server
04:08:59 <Keridos> then restart the map it still is set to on
04:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to disable it while the savegame is loaded
04:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> when you load a savegame, all the settings get restored
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04:43:57 <Keridos> Eddi|zuHause: Thanks, already sorted it out differently though
04:44:07 <Keridos> Downloaded server config and got the seed
04:44:18 <Keridos> regenerated it locally and loaded it up again
04:44:25 <Keridos> now old map without cargodist, yay
04:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that is usually the safer variant anyway, but some settings affect how the map is generated, so you could get a totally different map with the same seed
04:48:25 <Keridos> well I downloaded the config and change dnothing in the gui
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09:44:58 <frosch123> hmm, didn't notice the maglev last time
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09:46:39 <V453000> I bet andy will tell me something more :P
09:50:13 <frosch123> the most weird part is at 1415,217
09:50:31 <V453000> not checking the coords yet, guessing
09:50:49 <frosch123> no, rail continuation in corners
09:50:57 <frosch123> 1 out of 8 looks weird
09:51:51 <andythenorth> that’s not a bad thing
09:52:31 <V453000> I am not sure how far fixable is that frosch123
09:52:54 <V453000> haha andy and toys :P cute stuff
09:53:07 <peter1138> did that patch to allow artists to provide all combos ever make it?
09:53:20 <V453000> did that patch get finished?
09:53:30 <V453000> I would also be interested
09:53:52 <peter1138> hmm i think it was done but never tested
09:54:06 <V453000> but yeah that would be lovely
09:54:15 <V453000> junctions are the biggest issue with tracks
09:54:20 <V453000> especially the 3D ones
09:55:11 <V453000> but honestly in this case I am not having as much of an issue with this little glitch
09:55:29 <V453000> and even in pre-defined junction layout it would still have to be solved somehow
09:55:43 <V453000> but yeah there would be room for fixing
09:56:02 <peter1138> it would be much easier to fix though
09:56:31 <andythenorth> V453000: proportions are good for chibi
09:56:40 <andythenorth> don’t add any more realisms, it’s enough
09:56:56 <V453000> yeah they are rather large
09:57:16 <V453000> fuck realisms is the spirit of brix
09:58:15 <andythenorth> yetis can ride on top
10:07:02 <peter1138> so, er, can vs2015 build openttd?
10:35:53 <Rubidium> peter1138: it has been able to do so
10:36:29 <Rubidium> not sure whether the current version compiles, but a new CF instance with Windows 10 and MSVC 2015 exists on the server
10:36:31 <V453000> Rubidium: happen to remember anything about the patch allowing newgrf to define all junction combinations for tracks? :)
10:37:22 <peter1138> it'll need updating
10:38:04 <peter1138> actually it's tiny, might just apply
10:39:31 <Rubidium> V453000: I remember peter1138 doing something with that around r25k ;)
10:58:34 <peter1138> yeah, git rebase master was able to work :p
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11:19:07 <peter1138> it might even compile... i dunno
11:23:04 <V453000> please get it to work :>
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13:42:51 <Wolf01> finally i can browse the internet without worrying about star wars spoilers \o/
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13:45:27 <Flygon> I'm growing very fond of all these mid-range Steam Locos in OTTD
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14:16:49 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r27481 trunk/src/os/windows/win32.cpp (2015-12-28 14:16:41 +0100 )
14:16:50 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [Win32] Stdin/out/err need to be re-assigned differently if the runtime lib of MSVC2015 is used.
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17:09:00 * alluke waits for german to get offended
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17:33:03 * debdog is german. "the o/ and \o reminded me of that sign"
17:34:30 <Wolf01> good, so i propose to switch to a new greet... maybe 8=D doesn't offend anyone
17:36:43 <Wolf01> 🐱 <- too bad this doesn't seem to work
17:36:54 <Wolf01> at least not for everyone
17:39:01 <debdog> uhm, I wasn't serious. don't care about the \o
17:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that first one worked
17:39:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the first one is a cat face, the second only a rectangle
17:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and the third is a triangle with a huge space underneath (like 5 lines)
17:41:14 <Wolf01> i can see mines but not the alluke one, so the outcome seem to be pretty random
17:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your font, mostly
17:41:49 <alluke> visible only on iDevices
17:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> none of those worked
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18:00:19 <Wolf01> bored... tried to code some more of my game, got annoyed by coordinate positioning of objects, now bored and depressed
18:04:41 <andythenorth> 3D or 2D co-ordinate space?
18:05:43 <andythenorth> what’s the problem? o_O
18:06:03 <V453000> andythenorth: remember offsets? :P
18:06:35 <V453000> I guess that is the shit he is going through
18:06:38 <andythenorth> you have objects yes / no?
18:06:41 <Wolf01> half of the game with offset and half of the game without offset, half of the game with centered sprites and the other half just at the exact coordinates
18:07:38 <andythenorth> your objects have an internal co-ordinate system
18:07:52 <andythenorth> and you have a global co-ordinate space
18:07:59 <andythenorth> and you may have intermediate containers
18:08:05 <andythenorth> but basically it’s all just add/subtract
18:08:10 <andythenorth> as long as you get the signs right
18:08:22 <andythenorth> even flash developers can do it :P
18:09:06 <Wolf01> yes i know, i'm trying to switch the object with offsets to an internal coordinate system
18:09:35 <andythenorth> you want to be able to reference the object reliably from the main loop or whatever without pissing about with offsets :)
18:09:38 <andythenorth> let the object sort that out
18:09:52 <andythenorth> rotation and loc. point are internal props of the object
18:10:41 <Wolf01> but i need to change a lot of things now, only because i didn't even think about that at the first stage of development, i was too in hurry to get something moving on the screen
18:11:37 <andythenorth> when I started making games, it took me 5 or 6 flash games before I got anything clean
18:11:49 <andythenorth> but we shipped the first 5 or 6 anyway, they worked fine :)
18:12:02 <andythenorth> also I made another 10 or so games in macromedia director before that :P
18:12:31 <andythenorth> you’ll end up making a framework :P
18:12:43 <andythenorth> all games projects result in a reusable framework, which is never reused :D
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18:15:38 <qwebirc25831> I need help witb activating an AI in single player mode
18:27:24 <Wolf01> the nice thing is that i already made this game, with a different system (gamemaker) and now i'm just rewriting it in c# with monogame/xna just to learn it better... but i have to replicate a lot of things which i don't have (i had to find and integrate even a circle drawing function because there isn't anything out of the box in monogame/xna
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19:01:01 <andythenorth> I have been reading your PMs, but I had an OpenTTD break ;)
19:02:36 <Alberth> np, I suspected as much :)
19:02:42 <Alberth> had a good time I hope?
19:13:12 <__ln__> his OpenTTD broke down, that must be it
19:18:40 <V453000> so my BRIX announcement has 15 upvotes but only 1 person actually told me what they think
19:18:49 <V453000> that is a poor ratio of YES vs. actual opinion
19:19:11 <V453000> I am assuming on forums it is very similar
19:19:44 <Alberth> I think the track layer was drunk, but the tracks themselves are looking very good, especially giving the weird tricks you did :)
19:20:41 <Alberth> but indeed "upvote" has a lot of not so useful uses :p
19:21:00 <V453000> well track layer is old AI on drugs
19:45:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27482 trunk/src/lang/irish.txt (2015-12-28 19:45:35 +0100 )
19:45:44 <DorpsGek> irish: 23 changes by tem
19:54:12 <LordAro> i just noticed i've been scrolled up, so i've been more than a day behind
19:55:33 <LordAro> and now, i'm going to watch star wars
20:09:35 <TrueBrain> Alberth: I agree, looks weird :P
20:14:49 <V453000> typical andythenorth picture
20:15:02 <andythenorth> the engines are running on both vehicles :)
20:15:10 <andythenorth> I should get that crazy russian truck game
20:15:39 <Alberth> I saw, probably to avoid freezing the engines :)
20:17:14 * andythenorth looks at spintires
20:22:12 * peter1138 spins his tyres for andythenorth
20:23:33 * andythenorth had probably better get back on the pixel treadmill
20:23:56 <andythenorth> I have built all the Lego, and Mariokart is now banned, by me, due to kids can’t cope with it
20:24:06 <V453000> pixel creating slave camp consisting of 1 puny human
20:24:10 <andythenorth> Wolf01: finished the Volvo, and the green racecar ;)
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21:28:11 <Wolf01> andy, the store where i was trying to purchase a second volvo has most of the sets out of stock, i'll have to wait until february :(
21:29:02 <andythenorth> what will you do with it? B model?
21:29:56 <Wolf01> no, i think i'll do a backhoe loader
21:38:02 <andythenorth> sell me the big wheels, I’m going to do a mining truck :)
21:38:33 <Wolf01> ahah i'll keep them to double the volvo's ones :D
21:41:19 <andythenorth> I can get all the new panels in white, and they’re cheap
21:41:25 <andythenorth> but white for *everything* might be hard :P
21:43:27 <Wolf01> i think you won't find the white wheel rims
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21:53:15 <andythenorth> nah, would have to be grey probably
21:55:43 <andythenorth> and I have 6 of them already, from a failed MOC :)
21:55:48 <andythenorth> but it’s an ugly wheel
21:56:04 * Zuu battles with naming conventions in JavaScript
21:57:39 <andythenorth> arrayUnsureOfPurpose
21:58:06 <Zuu> I learned that the JS way is that only functions that act as constructors should start with an upper case.
21:58:24 <Zuu> With respect of this being defined by the caller. :-)
21:58:38 <andythenorth> or you could name things like more than one fricking idiot I’ve seen
21:58:56 <andythenorth> function b(c, d) {}
21:59:26 <andythenorth> yes but a worrying number of people actually write this raw
21:59:31 <andythenorth> ‘for optimisation reasons'
22:00:30 <Zuu> I am rather the opposite. Often using sometimes a bit too long names. :-)
22:00:46 <Alberth> nah, just using too few spaces :p
22:01:24 <andythenorth> if you have a 5000 file codebase (including a big framework), being able to search for my_long_variable_name_that_is_unique is really handy
22:01:44 <andythenorth> but you can kind of see how the “optimisers” get into the mess they do
22:01:51 <andythenorth> “it’s smaller to download"
22:02:12 <andythenorth> “it’s faster to execute” (allegedly, for a very dubious understanding of modern computers”
22:02:19 <andythenorth> “it fits in my 80 char window easily"
22:02:36 <Zuu> following likeThis(), my static modules should probably change to lower case. So only modules/"classes" ment to be constructed use upper case.
22:02:36 <andythenorth> “I don’t have to think up meaningful names, it’s all just mathematical relations to my algorithm-focussed brain"
22:02:52 <Alberth> "you can write a script to minimize var names in production code"
22:03:00 <andythenorth> somehow they don’t make that step :P
22:03:07 <andythenorth> also debugging minified JS is a total PITA :)
22:03:51 <Alberth> I can only agree to that, even though I have no experience with it :)
22:04:00 <Zuu> I learn't about sourcemaps but haven't yet added it to my gulpfile.
22:04:46 * andythenorth wonders if shorter var names really are faster to execute :P
22:05:03 <andythenorth> I would have assumed there was a symbol table for the interpreter :P
22:05:05 <V453000> 1s compile time saved
22:05:19 <V453000> shorter stuff, get nfo
22:05:37 <andythenorth> you arrived late to the conversation :D
22:06:07 <V453000> skimming through it I dont think I missed much :P
22:06:08 <Zuu> I heard there will be a web assembly side by side with JS.
22:06:17 <Alberth> symbol table may be a map from string to value
22:06:35 <V453000> am actually using a kind of simplified JS in after effects XD is awesome
22:07:07 * Zuu writes a SimTower clone in JS
22:07:59 <Alberth> /me looks up what SimTower is
22:11:41 <LadyHawk> stick an office building in the bottom uhh.... right? corner
22:12:25 <LadyHawk> nice game, unless you're aiming for the full stars.. lots of clicking involved
22:13:23 * LadyHawk digs up sim tower & plays
22:13:29 <Alberth> open a cookie-click game :p
22:14:09 * Zuu completed all stars in SimTower. It was one of few games available for mac.
22:14:31 <V453000> I dont know how close it is to a proper JS, but I read that it is JS XD
22:14:55 <Zuu> As my version is JS and open source, it is trivial to cheat. :-)
22:15:15 <LadyHawk> zuu did you manage to get all stars without turning all office prices to the lowest it'll go?
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22:16:29 <Zuu> I think I could keep some of them to second price. But I don't actually remember. Last time I played it was in at least 15 years ago.
22:18:01 <andythenorth> V453000 is now a programmer :)
22:18:17 <Zuu> But I do plan to add a way to build a rectangle of similar rooms to Monster Tower. Probably by shift+build. :-)
22:18:21 <V453000> I wouldnt say that but I use those simple programming tools for previewing stuff in factorio a lot
22:20:50 <Zuu> Well then you are a just a slope on the way to become a programmer. :-)
22:21:02 <V453000> the slope aint very slippery for me :P
22:21:30 <LadyHawk> so now i'm trying to run Sim Tower (abandonware free download) but i can't for the life of me get it installed or ran or anything
22:21:37 <V453000> though admittedly I am considering to have a peek at python because blender
22:26:24 <Zuu> It ran on PowerPC (mac) and I guess there was a windows version too. IIRC it was windows 95 or 98 that was available at that time.
22:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> was "runtime error 5" that thing that pascal programs had when the CPU is too fast?
22:28:20 <glx> google only directs me to VB errors
22:29:56 <Zuu> I only written Delphi since 2007 and has not run into that error.
22:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> then it probably wasn't that
22:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but delphi from 2007 probably doesn't have that
22:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a problem in some pascal (7-ish) library that initialized some timer, which overflowed when the CPU was too fast
22:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> where "too fast" was in the range of 200 MHz
22:34:48 <Zuu> Nice :-). I have used delphi 7 (which is from 2002), but that one may still be newer than pascal 7.
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