IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-12-20
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00:13:29 <mikehg_> OK, so I stole 'V' from 'new viewport' and that worked. Still, does seem odd that both 'SPACE' and 'BACKSPACE' don't work. Ho hum, sorry for the noise...
00:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause> space is sort of hardcoded to "close newspapers"
00:34:51 <mikehg_> Eddi|zuHause: thanks - that's a useful reference. It doesn't really matter, of course, you can get used to anything - I just thought I was probably doing something else wrong when neither worked. Cheers.
00:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> mikehg_: well you're free to open a ticket if you feel like a certain key should be supported
00:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> also, there should probably be a wiki page containing this info...
00:51:36 <mikehg_> Eddi|zuHause: are you an admin? Make me an account if you like, I'll turn that into a page. mikehg is fine as a username, it's mike.h.gentry at gmail.com
00:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not an admin
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01:46:19 <drac_boy> <sometimes hates the web...as usual :-s
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02:28:14 <drac_boy> at least one relative thing thats' for sure is...theres so many train photos :P
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09:10:21 <juzza1> Could someone check who has uploaded " 0.2 57416 times 464E4202 GPL v3
09:12:05 <juzza1> Could someone check who has uploaded "FRISS - Rail Infrastructure" to bananas? I'm one of the authors, and we can't find who uploaded it last time
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10:01:44 <andythenorth> V453000: such realisms
10:02:04 <andythenorth> copper refineries are max industry pipes and stuff
10:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause> ... that sentence does not parse this early in the morning
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11:56:29 <juzza1> disregard my previous request about FRISS, owner found
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13:15:01 <andythenorth> copper refinery looks like toyland :P :)
13:19:48 <Alberth> more toyland is good(tm)
13:22:03 <andythenorth> there won’t be that many tank things in the final layout, it’s a hacked layout
13:22:13 <Wolf01> maybe it's because of the colour, but it looks right to me
13:22:18 <andythenorth> and quite a lot of aluminimium mill is left :P
13:22:55 <andythenorth> looks…sharp…when the cc is grey :)
13:23:51 <Wolf01> it's wonderful how you can put so many details in a little sprite
13:24:17 <andythenorth> it’s just greebles :)
13:24:22 <andythenorth> mostly blobs of colour
13:24:23 <Alberth> so few horizontal pipes :p
13:25:46 <Wolf01> yes, in the end it's only pareidolia, all the realistic shapes are made up by our brain
13:26:14 <andythenorth> nice word, pareidolia
13:27:24 <Wolf01> i don't know if there is a better word for that, i always used it for illusions when you see faces, animals etc on shapes such the clouds or the wood nodes
13:28:20 <andythenorth> it’s the right word imo
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14:19:12 <Wolf01> bah, the us supercharger tries to charge my headset
14:20:50 <frosch123> be careful, sounds like it may charge you if there is nothing else left to charge
14:21:13 <Wolf01> now i have a new fear, thank you :D
14:22:01 <Wolf01> i enabled it once to try the rapid charge for the smartphone, but i had the headset plugged in the front ports
14:22:30 <Wolf01> now it seem to think that my headset needs to be recharged every time i plug it
14:24:06 <frosch123> i hate it when i have an uneven number of underground pipes
14:24:51 <Wolf01> like "where i put one and forget to connect it?"
14:26:17 <Wolf01> one thing i hate is the way the cables on poles work, you can clear all the cables and you need new cables in the inventory if you want to connect them again
14:26:35 <Wolf01> where are the cleared cables going?
14:26:47 <Wolf01> i expect them to return to inventory
14:27:00 <frosch123> hehe, it's also funny how all the poles have 3 connectors at the top, like as for 3 phase current
14:27:02 <Wolf01> at least the red/green circuit ones
14:27:14 <Wolf01> those are for the circuit network
14:27:21 <frosch123> but there is only one wire, as everything would likely be too messy if there were three wires in parallel
14:28:47 <Wolf01> just yesterday i linked a chest to the wrong pole, then i cleared the links disconnecting the power to the whole industry... no copper cables in the inventory, so i had to go back and get a bunch of them
14:29:24 <frosch123> yep, that's also one of the issues with having an odd numer of underground stuff
14:29:40 <frosch123> if your inventory is empty, the last thing you put is unconnected
14:29:42 <Wolf01> i could have just replaced the pole, but i'm not so smart sometimes
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14:57:28 <Wolf01> mmmh i have a large surplus of sulphur
14:57:59 <Wolf01> i could load it on a train and dump it somewhere
14:58:28 <alluke> which industry set has sulphur
14:59:48 <andythenorth> openttd is finished
15:00:04 <andythenorth> factorio is basically OpenTTD 2.0
15:04:03 <Wolf01> we should put something really interesting in ottd
15:04:29 <Wolf01> maybe a win the game button too
15:04:58 <Wolf01> but i think that purchasable DLCs will do the trick
15:12:18 <andythenorth> he thinks I’m joking?
15:12:53 <andythenorth> factorio is directly descended from openttd, and replaces what most people want from it
15:13:57 <frosch123> except it has no diagonal bridges or tunnels :p
15:14:28 <Wolf01> it doesn't even have bridges
15:15:21 <alluke> looks really messy and dark
15:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> factorio somehow manages to have everything i never wanted from openttd...
15:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> let's just say i played the demo and it didn't click...
15:20:45 <andythenorth> can we have belts in openttd though?
15:20:56 <Wolf01> i installed the demo, started a game and purchased it
15:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> in other news... i downloaded this game CaesarIA, and i can't make it through the tutorial levels...
15:21:50 <andythenorth> copper refinery, should it have one of those electrical substation tiles?
15:22:11 <Wolf01> i don't know, should it?
15:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> purifying copper needs loads of electricity
15:22:44 <andythenorth> aluminimum plant has one, I’m copy-pasting from that :P
15:24:22 <Wolf01> mmmh, the downside of building a plastic factory near a oil wells area is that when you'll finish the oil you are f**ked
15:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "loads" might be exaggerated. mostly it needs a specific voltage so it catches copper ions but nothing else
15:26:44 <Wolf01> i don't know if it's better moving the entire refinery and link the wells to the oil barrels filling plant or what
15:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i read about that a few days ago as well
15:53:55 <alluke> the dumbest nation in the world
15:54:18 <Wolf01> damn... the productivity module is only usable with intermediate producs :(
15:54:45 <__ln__> now now, there have been various very smart americans, such as nicola tesla, albert einstein, and enrico fermi.
15:57:22 <alluke> mixed with alfred nobel
15:58:35 <__ln__> you may want to look up the other names on my list as well
16:00:03 <alluke> tesla was born in croatia and fermi in italy
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16:18:41 <andythenorth> needs a few more tiles
16:19:27 <frosch123> looks like a sewage plant :p
16:19:58 <andythenorth> because of the settling tank? o_O
16:20:32 <frosch123> if that's the round pool with the orthogonal thing in it
16:23:26 <frosch123> maybe replace the concrete ground with some mineral piles or so
16:24:56 <andythenorth> maybe the tank is a bad idea
16:25:02 <andythenorth> it will always look like a sewage plant :P
16:25:02 <frosch123> the current graphics are too "urban"
16:25:14 <frosch123> it looks like something near a town, thus sewage plant
16:25:18 <frosch123> it does not look like a mine
16:25:38 <andythenorth> it’s refinery rather than mine :)
16:25:53 <andythenorth> different ground
16:25:59 <__ln__> refinery rather than yours
16:29:34 <andythenorth> maybe I give it the cobbled ground
16:31:55 <Dakkus> Hellos! Playing a self-compiled version of OpenTTD. For some reason it doesn't show the hieghtmaps I just downloaded through the online content tool.
16:32:22 <Dakkus> Loading a scenario is no problem, but the heightmaps are somehow invisible to the game.
16:39:17 <Dakkus> Any idea of what to do?
16:48:43 <Zuu> Dakkus: Does heightmaps work in stable/nightly?
16:55:41 <Zuu> I just tried in current nightly r27473, and could go to "play heightmap" then "check online content", select europe for download. When I closed online content window, it now shows up in the play heightmap window. I can select it and play it.
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16:58:45 <alluke> how would it look with dirt ground tiles?
17:01:14 <mikehg_> Hi - me again :) Afraid I've got another issue, this time lost saved games. They've ended up in ~/.config/openttd/save. I wasn't launching openttd with any switches or environment variables or anything, but I guess it could be something odd in the Chromebook / Crouton / Debian combination. Anyone seen that before?
17:04:12 <andythenorth> eh looks ok with dirt ground
17:04:30 <andythenorth> FFS, mercurial :(
17:04:44 <andythenorth> a VCS that doesn’t know which files have changed is unhelpful
17:06:12 <Zuu> I use windows 7. So if it is related to your OS, then it may still fail. I see now I might have been to quick to conclusion that you used a patched version, but if you did, please try with plain trunk/stable and see if your problem exist in the official version.
17:06:43 <Dakkus> Zuu: Yes, it seems to.
17:07:43 <andythenorth> recyclables are probably bales
17:08:13 <andythenorth> I just cba to draw them
17:08:20 <alluke> never heard about that
17:08:54 <Dakkus> I wonder how long it will take before OpenTTD will officially support the daylength setting..
17:09:14 <alluke> i still think they should be bulk
17:09:28 <andythenorth> OpenTTD most likely will never support daylength
17:09:31 <andythenorth> due to, it doesn’t work
17:09:37 <andythenorth> and has no gain :)
17:09:45 * andythenorth is not a dev though
17:10:03 <Dakkus> Making a 4k*4k map, very low city density and very low industry density and playing with daylength=9 makes the game sooo much better!
17:10:59 <Dakkus> Usually all the place between cities on the map gets filled with junctions and
17:11:16 <Dakkus> there is not enough time in the game to use the different generations of railway vehicles.
17:11:44 <Zuu> You say that you are actually able to fill a 4k*4k map?
17:11:49 <alluke> steam, diesel, and electric?
17:11:51 <Hiddenfunstuff> Am i only one who gets frustrated with towns popping up infront of your building plans.. So you just bribe the town, and slowly bulldoze through the town so you dont have to make a turn on the rails
17:11:57 <Dakkus> Also, too large share of the playing time is spent renewing vehicles or fixing the frogups caused by autorenew.
17:12:18 <Dakkus> zuu: I don't want to /fill/ it. I want there to always be somewhere to extend to.
17:12:38 <alluke> magic bulldozer is a friend
17:12:47 <Hiddenfunstuff> I know.. i use that when i'm singleplayer
17:12:53 <Dakkus> My current railway company spans about 3000 squares by 1500 squares currently in 1977, and I started at 1912.
17:13:10 <Hiddenfunstuff> but in multiplayer or when i'm playing my singleplayer in multiplayer i just bribe the authorities till i get my 4 wide tracks through the city centre
17:13:20 <Dakkus> Though, until about the fourties I played with daylength=5, which however advanced too quickly for my liking.
17:14:20 <Dakkus> Now I wanted to start a game with a 4k*2k map and see how it will turn out.
17:15:27 <Dakkus> And, I also noticed I'm having some trouble navigating around my network and remembering which city is where, so I figured it would help to use a real world map instead of a randomly generated one. And when I start serving a city, rename the city according to it location on the map.
17:15:29 <Hiddenfunstuff> so how this daylenght thing works? it an modifier to control how quick time goes?
17:15:58 <Dakkus> A day usually consists of some amounts of ticks. Maybe 72, I don't remember.
17:16:25 <Dakkus> If you switch to daylength=5, then it will take 5 times more ticks to advance one day.
17:16:43 <Dakkus> You also need some other game script to balance the rest of the game.
17:17:09 <Hiddenfunstuff> yeah since the industries and everything runs on the ticks which are slowed down by daylenght
17:17:17 <Dakkus> Reddit has a really well made set of scripts accompanying the daylength patch, but they didn't have a working linux binary, so I compiled myself.
17:17:35 <Dakkus> And because of some library hassle, I disabled this and that, apparently breaking the heightmaps as well.
17:17:56 <Hiddenfunstuff> I usually get bored when it hits like year 5000
17:18:06 <Dakkus> Hiddenfunstuff: No, the industries run by the days, which are made qlonger.
17:19:15 <Dakkus> So, if an industry produces 10000 wood per month, it effectively gets reduced to 1/5 if I choose daylength=5.
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17:20:03 <Dakkus> I've noticed that the amount of passenger per train becomes quite realistic when the dayength is around 5 or so.
17:20:26 <Dakkus> I've never really liked how the trains get so crazily easil full in OTTD.
17:20:59 <Dakkus> My local trains have about the same amount of passengers they would in real life.
17:21:30 <Dakkus> At least in a small city.
17:21:49 <Hiddenfunstuff> I never really bothered with passenger trains
17:21:49 <Dakkus> And if I want to have a large amount of passengers, I must really build a well working network.
17:22:05 <Dakkus> Yeah, they are not much fun without the Reddit patches.
17:22:25 <Hiddenfunstuff> Is there any intresting game modes or anything to play singleplayer
17:22:44 <Dakkus> But when you get to the point where you have to combine buses, trains, ships and planes to get the network to function, the game gets very interesting.
17:23:21 <Dakkus> Because otherwise the passengers will require compensation instead of paying money when they finally reach their destination :D
17:24:21 <Dakkus> Also, the x-USSR trainset has the funky feature of two different railway eletrifications.
17:24:38 <Hiddenfunstuff> soviet rails were intresting
17:24:39 <Dakkus> First you get 3000 kV DC, which gradually gets more and more useful.
17:25:10 <Dakkus> Then you start getting 25 kV AC stock.
17:25:21 <Hiddenfunstuff> Happened in real life aswell
17:25:39 <Dakkus> I really like the extra trouble it gives me to make the two networks work well together.
17:25:41 <Hiddenfunstuff> Makes it intresting for the finland-russia rail traffic
17:26:05 <Dakkus> Because FInland has 25 KV and the SPb area 3kV?
17:26:31 <Hiddenfunstuff> its the voltage difference that goes in the train
17:27:02 <Dakkus> Also, one thing I would really like would be for each player to be able to usea different country's train set, including the electrification.
17:27:02 <Hiddenfunstuff> Finnish train and carriages till the border.. Then a russian train picks up the carriages and continues till moscow
17:27:26 <Dakkus> Yes, but very often they change locomotives in Russia as well.
17:27:49 <Hiddenfunstuff> The problem comes where I belive russian trains use 3000V power to the cars.. while finnish cars use 1500V
17:28:22 <Hiddenfunstuff> so the train is always dragging a diesel generator in the end that is fired up when the locomotives switch on the border to supply heating and electricity for the passenger cars
17:28:23 <Dakkus> Not a big problem to solve :)
17:28:50 <Dakkus> No, that's not the case anymore.
17:29:25 <Dakkus> There was an aggregate wagon in Sibelius, but that was replaced by Allegro.
17:29:33 <Dakkus> Tolstoi never had an aggregate wagon.
17:29:49 <Dakkus> I used to work for the Finnish railways ;)
17:29:55 <Hiddenfunstuff> Oh? Where you worked there?
17:30:33 <Dakkus> As a conductor (a person who sells tickets in the wagons and helps the passengers and makes sure the wagons are safe both technically and socially.
17:30:54 <Dakkus> On the local and regional trains, based in Helsinki.
17:30:55 <Hiddenfunstuff> I was fixing up and starting up the diesels for couple years
17:32:27 <Hiddenfunstuff> later moved to as local mechanic and all around service guy to a smaller town on seinjoki
17:32:36 <Dakkus> Got fired for technical-economical reasons? :D
17:32:55 <Hiddenfunstuff> Nah.. it was just couple years of temporary work
17:33:22 <Dakkus> I enjoyed the day when they made me teach a new guy to do my job while I had already told that I would be fired for economical reasons :D
17:33:27 <alluke> gotta love the last train of friday/saturday night
17:33:45 <alluke> the atmosphere there is special every time
17:33:46 <Dakkus> I really liked working in that one!
17:33:57 <alluke> when 99% of passergers are drunk
17:34:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: in all picture you showed me, the settling tank was above ground and made of metal
17:34:15 <frosch123> i associate sewage plants with concrete things at ground level
17:34:31 <Hiddenfunstuff> I'd say the most fun were starting those dv12..
17:34:45 <frosch123> sewage uses big pipes
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17:35:58 <Dakkus> alluke: With the right attitude those trains are seriously fun to work in: youtu.be/mb683dvFDsA
17:36:37 <Dakkus> (I started the announcement with "Rakkaat matkustajat, tämä on L-junaKirkkonummelle" ;)
17:36:51 <Dakkus> I guess that's why the passenger decided to record it :) )
17:37:25 <andythenorth> that would be BIG sewage :O
17:39:11 <alluke> how many languages did you read it
17:39:26 <alluke> finnihs, swedish, english, estonian, russian?
17:41:13 <__ln__> also some never-heard minority language called 'german'
17:41:44 <__ln__> danish at the end probably
17:41:45 <Hiddenfunstuff> aaanyways.. how did the channel derail again quite literally from trains to something totally different
17:44:11 <frosch123> derailing is a natural things for trains
17:46:03 <Hiddenfunstuff> Aaaanyways.. anybody has any intresting gamemodes or something to do in TTD
17:46:39 <Alberth> /me advertises BusyBee
17:47:32 <alluke> id like to have cooperative realistic eye-candy mp
17:47:53 <alluke> the description says nothing
17:48:02 <alluke> how does it differ from normal gameplay
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19:45:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27474 trunk/src/lang/irish.txt (2015-12-20 19:45:10 +0100 )
19:45:20 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:21 <DorpsGek> irish - 21 changes by tem
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21:11:50 <Zuu> BusyBee is quite nice. You can also try Silicon Valley, NoCarGoal or one of the many town builder game scripts.
21:12:58 <alluke> maybe recolor those steel coils to look like copper?
21:13:09 <V453000> andythenorth: nice, i think the bottom circular things are way too ellipse though
21:13:23 <andythenorth> yeah, they might be off for dimetric
21:13:30 <Zuu> Also Awards comes to my mind. It provides a long list of named goals with somewhat humorous descriptions.
21:13:30 <andythenorth> I just rescaled them from something else
21:13:36 <V453000> and I think the pipes look a bit off
21:13:36 <__ln__> Zuu: congrats for the tram
21:13:45 <andythenorth> V453000: too much <-> or too much the other way?
21:13:58 <V453000> the horizontal bit looks way fatter than the vertical one, and I would like to see some extra detail on it
21:14:15 <V453000> if not some reflection then some form of black dots/lines for weld spots
21:14:34 <andythenorth> it needs the water sorting out
21:14:34 <V453000> the bottom silos should be taller
21:15:13 <V453000> I would add one extra pixel on the right to the pipes on the vertical part
21:15:28 <frosch123> i think keeping the pools not that high improves it :)
21:15:46 <andythenorth> the pools need the bridge things too
21:15:48 <frosch123> but yes, it no longer looks like a sewage plant :)
21:16:45 <Zuu> __ln__: The state funded it with 90 M SEK less than the municipality asked for. The opposition with an anti-tram party in the lead has claimed that the desicion to build the tram line is not legas due to the missing 90 MSEK (~9 M Euro). But indeed a majority in the municipality has taken the descition to start building the tram line.
21:17:28 <V453000> wtf does a copper refinery do btw?
21:18:53 <alluke> it sure doesnt refine copper
21:21:20 <andythenorth> it refines copper
21:21:44 <V453000> regardless, industry is nice, I like it
21:21:46 <andythenorth> copper ore -> copper
21:21:46 <frosch123> V453000: 60% copper -> 99.99% copper
21:22:02 <andythenorth> it’s nice to a FIRS industry with a bit more ‘wtf’ in it
21:22:03 <frosch123> it's like removing bad pixels :p
21:22:13 <andythenorth> also not just copy-paste :P
21:22:17 <andythenorth> new drawing here
21:22:47 <V453000> yeah i figure :) good stuff, pixels to be licked
21:22:59 <V453000> I made myself a trello chart of how I am doing with BRIX
21:23:08 <V453000> result is very motivating
21:23:32 <andythenorth> hi all trello-ed
21:24:32 <frosch123> V453000: post it on the forums, so people can comment how you shedule your work
21:24:57 <frosch123> they are likely helpful to set your prioities
21:31:24 * andythenorth has drawn enough pixelses today
21:31:52 <andythenorth> eh, but I need to draw a vineyard
21:32:04 <andythenorth> but what do vineyard buildings look like?
21:33:04 <frosch123> it's more about columns of wine
21:33:06 <frosch123> less abuot building
21:33:59 <frosch123> if you want to add a winery, i guess it needs some cellar
21:34:13 <frosch123> and some barrel assembly carpentery
21:34:40 <frosch123> maybe make a futuristic vineyard
21:34:53 <frosch123> with an artifical hill, that rotates to follow the sun
21:35:29 <Alberth> big mirror to reflect the sun towards the grapes :)
21:38:12 <andythenorth> probably not most people’s idea of a vineyard
21:38:36 <alluke> are those all tropic industries
21:50:36 <alluke> the winery should have as large fields as farms
21:53:22 <frosch123> is there a way to justify adding a whinery?
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21:55:47 <frosch123> about how hard it is to prioritise what to whine about
22:04:23 <andythenorth> vineyards don’t grow haybales so much, so I won’t use farm fields
22:05:50 <frosch123> anyway, most vineyards seem to put the plantation rows along the slope
22:05:59 <frosch123> i guess that makes it easier for harvesting
22:06:21 <frosch123> "along"? is that the direciton?
22:06:32 <frosch123> well, i mean downhill
22:07:20 <andythenorth> so now we need slope dependent farm-fields :o
22:13:56 <frosch123> i guess ponies must be delivered to a unicorn assembling plant
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