IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-12-19
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01:08:14 <drac_boy> anyone got some spare cpus? :p heh
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10:23:10 <V453000> so I made myself a tasklist for BRIX XD
10:23:17 <V453000> probably wasnt a great idea
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10:39:20 <Alberth> now your followers get up-todate news on your progress :)
10:44:01 <V453000> yeah but seeing the wall of tasks is a bit intimidating :d
10:45:18 <Alberth> at work I have a list of several hundred things :p
10:45:32 <Alberth> I don't pay much attention to it :p
10:49:48 <Alberth> just pick anything on the list, and do it, until you run out of things :)
10:50:07 <V453000> that is what I am doing so far
10:50:38 <Alberth> the list is mostly for keeping related stuff together, and not forgetting things
10:51:31 <Alberth> a bit of dependency ordering can be useful too, but that's about it, imho
10:52:15 <Alberth> the site seems more for discussing and organizing, ie communication between people
10:52:32 <Alberth> which is not very relevant if there is only one person involved :p
10:54:52 <Alberth> at work, I use it as memory. Some issues are years old, but if anyone needs to know about it, I can dig up the ticket, read it, and tell everything I know
10:55:36 <Alberth> these are typicially edge cases that you will only encounter if you construct it.
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12:15:06 <Wolf01> also i need to redesign all my rails because i'm stupid
12:16:09 <argoneus> good morning train friends
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12:17:27 <argoneus> path signals for factorio when
12:21:20 <V453000> I didnt read it but chain signals solve all your problems :P and roundabouts are super bad
12:21:58 <V453000> afaik chain signals kind of already do work like path signals argoneus
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12:22:23 <Wolf01> every junction is super bad if you have more trains than the safe waiting areas
12:22:28 <argoneus> aren't they like entry/exit signals?
12:22:31 <argoneus> that's what I thought they were
12:22:48 <V453000> they are but they also do work like path signals
12:22:59 <argoneus> you can use entry/exit signals to get the path signal effect
12:23:03 <argoneus> except having two trains in the same block
12:23:04 <Flygon_> Wolf01: I was half-expecting pictures of rail crossings THROUGh roundabouts
12:23:24 <argoneus> they don't lookahead
12:23:27 <argoneus> but they pick the right routes
12:23:34 <V453000> it has nothing to do with the "pre-signal" functionality ... they simply care about paths
12:23:46 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
12:23:55 <argoneus> the chain signals already work with paths, not blocks?
12:24:37 <argoneus> I don't have a save with trains atm
12:24:42 <argoneus> but I'll believe you
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12:27:14 <argoneus> also why are people so obsessed with train roundabouts?
12:27:26 <V453000> because they are primitive to build
12:27:28 <argoneus> have you ever seen a train roundabout irl
12:27:38 <argoneus> there's a reason for it, trains aren't cars
12:27:44 <V453000> needs no logic, you just consistently connect things to a loop
12:28:06 <V453000> I cant think of a simpler solution either
12:28:27 <V453000> and with the precedenting example of car roundabout it is clear where are people coming from :)
12:28:30 <argoneus> just ghetto connect it
12:28:41 <Wolf01> on a city near mine they are planning a double roundabout with a railway which passes through one of them, now i understand where they got the idea
12:28:55 <argoneus> not sure if it's just me
12:28:57 <Flygon> argoneus: Train cloverloops don't exist IRL
12:29:01 <Flygon> But we still build them
12:29:03 <argoneus> but roundabouts don't look deadlock-proof
12:29:05 <Flygon> Because they WORK within the games
12:29:28 <V453000> Flygon: yeah they dont
12:30:07 <V453000> only lesser knowledge or ignorance can make you say that
12:30:22 <Flygon> V453000: My OTTD games run near entirely on ignorance
12:30:56 <V453000> then "it works" has very little value or relevance to "is a good solution"
12:31:43 <Flygon> The four-to-one merge I never bothered to fix from being a pinch point
12:32:08 <argoneus> it seems like it works
12:32:22 <argoneus> the clover thing seems functional too
12:32:25 <argoneus> but it's wayyy too large
12:32:40 <Flygon> In a tigther space, I'd be utterly stuffed
12:32:45 <Flygon> And would need to become more creative
12:32:53 <Flygon> But, in most circumstances where space is an issue
12:33:07 <argoneus> all you need to do is connect each input to each output without tangling
12:33:11 <Flygon> So, you can crap out a smaller interchange without as much harm because stuff's going slow anyway
12:33:27 <Flygon> But, I also play with trying to make things pretty, so... keep that in mind
12:34:09 <Wolf01> it's nice that if you search for train junctions on google you'll find almost all ottd results
12:35:14 <Flygon> Yeah, see what I mean? I just broke your brain :D
12:35:20 <Flygon> But, it goddamn worked :D
12:35:30 <Flygon> Don't ask about the ships
12:35:34 <Flygon> I don't even know why the ships
12:36:29 <Flygon> I would NEVER build the cloverleaf I showed
12:36:36 <Flygon> If OpenTTD had more flexible tunneling and viaduct tools
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12:36:48 <Flygon> Having Cities Skylines style underground tools in OTTD would be amazing
12:37:22 <Flygon> Then I could have the same end result as my cloverleaf
12:37:27 <Flygon> Without the ridiculous land requirements
12:40:29 <Flygon> Even worse, I tore it off an IRL road junction that hit the same issue I did
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12:43:04 <Wolf01> i really like your track building style
12:43:47 <Flygon> But I always felt that my style was too sterile to poston forums
12:44:58 <Flygon> (with the 'regretted' junction, I did try to alleviate it by having the empty coal train floor it as fast as possible downhill to minimize impact)
12:45:21 <argoneus> I can't sight read your designs quickly
12:45:28 <argoneus> I'm like "ok so the trains come here, wait what"
12:51:13 <Flygon> Tho, note one of the Eastern track pairs from Reykjavik is not in commission yet
12:51:16 <Flygon> Hence the lack of signals
12:53:14 <Flygon> I presume argoneus will understand this track system easier :3
12:54:50 <Wolf01> did you manage to make them profitable?
12:55:27 <Flygon> Can't build this without $$$
12:55:30 <Flygon> And I didn't cheat <_>
12:55:50 <Flygon> Oil and Coal sustained the game very sturdily
12:55:55 <Flygon> Getting Food was a pita
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13:01:38 <Flygon> (yes, that's FIVE Tauros's on the Oil train. I needed something with enough tractive effort to replace the triple headed Big Boys. But nothing existed in the GRF. They didn't accelerate as quickly, but, they eventually got fast enough)
13:03:20 <Flygon> Still, it took FIVE of the locos to keep up
13:08:57 <Flygon> Shame I lost most of my old OTTD saves
13:09:02 <Flygon> I assumed they were in the OpenTTD folder
13:09:09 <Flygon> But they were in My Documents
13:09:17 <Flygon> Which I wiped because I reinstalled Windows
13:09:27 <Flygon> I thought they wouldn't be in there because, genuinely
13:09:40 <Flygon> It's the first game I ever had that saved files in My Documents
13:10:42 <Wolf01> i usually backup the entire user folder because i might need something stored in the .foldername folders used by a lot of softwares
13:10:50 <Wolf01> that's one thing i really hate
13:11:48 <Flygon> I should play OpenTTD while my graphics tablet is under repair
13:11:52 <Flygon> I have a backlog of work
13:11:57 <Flygon> But my backup tablet is, frankly, too old
13:12:02 <Flygon> It's inverter's practically gone
13:12:08 <Flygon> The backlight tube itself's near dead
13:12:12 <Flygon> It's got capacitor problems
13:12:17 <Flygon> And the touchscreen itself is showing age
13:12:28 <Flygon> So, may's well spend it playing games waiitng
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13:56:27 <Wolf01> V453000, i'm the only one who looks at the blank blueprint and see a WC?
13:59:05 <Flygon> If OpenTTD's default townnames sound stupid
14:00:52 <Wolf01> that is what happen when you let Aussies give names... Mt. Disappointment anyone?
14:02:40 <Flygon> "The unusual name arose from the gold rush era in Victoria, during the mid 19th century. Research was then known as Swiper's Gully, but gold was found after the area was re-searched. Swiper's Gully then became Research Gully, and finally, late in the 19th century, abbreviated to Research."
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16:06:51 <drac_boy> hows the firs-loving andy now? :p heh
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16:25:19 <drac_boy> anyone else up at 10est anyway? :)
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16:36:04 <drac_boy> and why did you type that otherwise? heh :)
16:36:13 <drac_boy> didn't sleep well so having a lazy day atm tho here
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16:45:07 <Alberth> ha, you got up at 5:30 in the morning?
16:46:48 <drac_boy> nope...much earlier than that...and couldn't sleep right away either
16:47:05 <drac_boy> hopefully next night will be normal sleep .. but till then like I was saying going be lazy for today :)
16:47:19 <drac_boy> so, you having something good for supper soon? ;)
16:47:28 <drac_boy> I had some simple apple pancakes for breakfast anyhow
16:47:43 <Alberth> nah, just standard stuff
16:57:58 * drac_boy also hasn't been able to do much grf work in a while either
17:05:44 <drac_boy> anyway going for a bit now, have fun with your basic supper :)
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17:17:19 <andythenorth> how plausible is savegame editing?
17:18:29 <Alberth> editing is not the problem, loading it back in afterwards is the challenge :p
17:19:21 <Alberth> but not very, in general
17:19:37 <andythenorth> I want to play a tropic game, but the map generator is appalling
17:19:37 <Alberth> you may have better luck fixing things in afterload code
17:19:49 <andythenorth> and I can’t find any good heightmaps so far
17:20:20 <andythenorth> wondering about using temperate, then changing climate in the save
17:20:48 <Alberth> generate one in the SE, save it as height map?
17:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think that's a worthwhile approach to the problem
17:24:08 <andythenorth> SE heightmap works :)
17:25:13 <andythenorth> wow, mountains in Tropic :D
17:25:16 <andythenorth> never seen those before
17:25:57 <Alberth> there really are mountains in eg south america :)
17:30:47 <andythenorth> and other places even :P
17:31:01 <andythenorth> nobody’s going to ‘fix’ the tropic map gen, right?
17:32:14 <sim-al2> I always wonder what the existing tropic climate actually represents, I can't think of many places that transition from hard desert to rainforest that quickly
17:33:18 <Alberth> it was fixed, but the fixes had some unwanted side effects and were reverted :p
17:34:15 <Alberth> sim-al2: you know OpenTTD is a game rather than earth simulation program, right?
17:41:27 <__ln__> i suspect it's not really operating on steam
17:43:30 <Wolf01> i think it's a bit obvious
17:45:21 <andythenorth> maybe I should steampunk my 8x8 truck
17:48:06 <sim-al2> Albeth: Oh defintely, but at least artic and temperate look like real places
17:50:14 <sim-al2> Toyland... yeah I have no words
17:50:52 <andythenorth> some people prefer toyland :)
17:51:34 <sim-al2> Too bad that Toyland to Mars newgrf isn't on Bananas
17:51:56 * andythenorth wonders if GS can check industry availability
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18:01:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you probably can't know what type of industry it is, and distinguishing cargos is tricky as well
18:03:17 <andythenorth> I have a FIRS economy where about half the types are missing at map gen
18:03:23 <andythenorth> and the goal is to build them
18:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i think that checks whether manual construction is enabled
18:04:33 <Alberth> "If no valid GSCompanyMode active in scope, the script can build as long as the industry type can be built."
18:04:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence makes no sense
18:05:10 <Alberth> you don't see an industry as a type, but as a thing producing cargoes X and Y
18:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but i presume it doesn't actually test the construction callback of the GRF
18:05:32 <Alberth> you can't do that other than by building
18:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause> as that would imply having a location, etc.
18:05:46 <Alberth> such joy, this newgrf stuff :p
18:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't actually use this for "is this missing at map gen?"
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18:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you might want to have a function that checks the appearance chance
18:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but that could give misleading results as well
18:08:31 <Alberth> tbh I would expect the above function to do something like that, but I haven't checked the code
18:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i don't see how the text would suggest that
18:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: what's a "yule" anyway?
18:10:02 <Alberth> it's possible it does something else
18:10:44 <Alberth> but it seems the closest thing inexistence for what andy wants, imho
18:11:18 <andythenorth> it would probably be sufficient to count each type
18:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i'm still of the opinion that this does nothing like what andythenorth wants
18:11:38 <andythenorth> and try to build some that are substantially under-represented on the map
18:11:50 <alluke> what christmas grfs there is
18:11:50 <andythenorth> but there’s no point setting goals for types that are unavailable :P
18:12:31 <andythenorth> in fact, player building industries is not very interesting
18:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: some grf replaced statues with christmas trees
18:12:49 <andythenorth> better to let the GS just go on a building spree
18:13:04 <andythenorth> possibly meeting goals xyz triggers more
18:13:07 <Alberth> and of course all the newgrfs you made for the occasion
18:13:10 <andythenorth> it’s similar to a suggestion by frosch123
18:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: well, toyland is mildly christmas related
18:13:58 <alluke> i like to keep it real
18:14:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so christmas is real?
18:14:31 <alluke> at least it exists in real world
18:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i have not heard of any other christmas-y grfs
18:19:51 <andythenorth> 1 train, have to deliver presents to every town, once
18:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can't you just limit goals to industries where at least one exists on the map?
18:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and if you want to construct new industries, try all of the "0" category first, and when none succeed, try the other ones?
18:22:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think something like that would work
18:37:43 <alluke> when will chips get recyclables sprites
18:43:32 <andythenorth> does a tree in a forest etc
18:43:39 <andythenorth> what is the nature of time?
18:43:55 <andythenorth> I don’t know, tbh
18:43:59 <andythenorth> what would they look like?
18:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> like heybales, just more colorful?
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19:21:37 <andythenorth> this British Iron Horse is not very good for Africa :P
19:22:06 <andythenorth> so many Impediments :(
19:34:57 <andythenorth> unfinished trainset
19:35:02 <andythenorth> unfinished ship set
19:35:11 <andythenorth> unfinished RV set
19:35:15 <andythenorth> unfinished industry set
19:38:16 <frosch123> unfinished station set?
19:40:24 <alluke> because africans cant finish it?
19:43:57 * andythenorth tries to finish FIRS 2.0 by April
19:44:31 <frosch123> what does "finish" mean?
19:44:39 <andythenorth> make possible to ship
19:44:44 <frosch123> or do you want to make a 3.0 starting from may?
19:44:55 <andythenorth> assuming raised industry limit in April for stable Openttd
19:45:06 <andythenorth> it was ready to ship, then I started…improving it
19:45:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27473 trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt (2015-12-19 19:45:08 +0100 )
19:45:18 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:19 <DorpsGek> welsh - 1 changes by kazzie
19:46:37 <andythenorth> hg is getting unworkable :(
19:47:02 <andythenorth> I upgraded it, and it’s borked
19:53:10 <frosch123> i learned, when evolution fails to start-up (about 80% of times), just leav it running
19:53:33 <frosch123> it fixed itself eventually with the next cyclic trigger
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20:02:18 * andythenorth quits grumbling and draws a copper refinery
20:02:31 <andythenorth> including new sprites, not just copy-paste from other industries :P
20:03:36 <alluke> i think you should remove clay from paper mill
20:04:07 <alluke> wood and chemicals are fine and realistic
20:05:10 <andythenorth> clay is chemicals I suppose
20:05:20 <andythenorth> how about just chemicals?
20:05:26 <alluke> just chemicals is good
20:05:51 <alluke> but carrying trainloads of clay to papermill makes no sense
20:06:56 <alluke> its useful only for bricks
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21:34:03 <__ln__> has anyone else seen the movie yet?
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21:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not seen the movie
21:53:26 <TrueBrain> well, the might be included in many
21:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not seen many movies either
21:53:51 <alluke> but what is "the" called
21:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not seen more movies than i have seen
21:54:19 <TrueBrain> I havent seen less movies than I have seen
21:54:23 <TrueBrain> weird, how that works
21:54:48 <glx> alluke: I guess the one with too much merchandising
21:55:04 <TrueBrain> and too much "I really dont give a crap" level
21:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i have been avoiding the buzz... that generally helps with the disappointment levels afterwards
22:00:44 <alluke> the last movie i saw was called "fifty shades of gape"
22:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't sound like a movie anyone should watch...
22:02:22 <alluke> very mind-expanding movie
22:21:59 * andythenorth is drawing a copper sludge sedimentation tank
22:22:18 <andythenorth> should I use normal blue for the water?
22:22:32 <andythenorth> or something darker, but less obviously water?
22:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> use darker, but sprinkle in some flashing water pixels?
22:31:23 <andythenorth> the water in those probably rotates
22:31:31 * andythenorth does not fancy animating that :
22:47:54 <alluke> what will the copper refinery produce
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23:16:18 <__ln__> alluke: there is only one the movie atm.
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23:36:41 <mikehg_> Hi - I'm trying to run on a Chromebook, using Crouton / Debian 8. Unfortunately it doesn't have a 'Del' key, so I'm trying to rebind.
23:37:39 <mikehg_> Does anyone know what I should put in hotkeys.cfg? I've tried obvious things like 'delete_windows = SPACE' or '... BACKSPACE' but they just get blanked if I run the game.
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