IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-12-05
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09:04:04 <V453000> how many such steps are in a tile? motion_counter 0 ... 15
09:04:12 <V453000> or, how does this translate to ingame tiles?
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09:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: 16 steps in a (straight) tile, 8 in a diagonal tile (i believe). however, the internal counter goes higher than 15, this is an arbitrary nml limitation
09:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it might also be 12 on a diagonal
09:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> diagonals are weird
09:21:46 <V453000> I am definitely making 2 models, one for straight and one for diagonal
09:21:52 <V453000> no more stretching etc
09:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you can access the full range of the motion counter with the var[] notation, which is advisable if you have like a 3-frame animation, so it doesn't jump so much
09:42:28 <V453000> does it mean I have more motion frames within a tile or that it can transition over multiple tiles?
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09:48:55 <V453000> hm, can only be done for first vehicle in consist?
09:49:08 <V453000> does dual headed train apply for tlat?
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11:39:02 * andythenorth needs to try new Busy Bee
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11:46:21 * andythenorth wants a fjord generator :P
11:50:28 <Alberth> find a norway heightmap :p
11:52:03 <andythenorth> won’t work for my 256x512 map
11:52:12 * andythenorth will stop complaining now
11:53:12 <Alberth> 1/2 that map is sufficient :)
12:07:34 <Alberth> the script prints the number of routes that it finds, it would be interesting how many that are, it's was less than 10 here, which is surprisingly low
12:14:27 <andythenorth> on my first 10 goals
12:14:49 <andythenorth> there are 4 goals with 32 routes
12:15:03 <andythenorth> and 6 goals with 1-6 routes
12:15:20 <andythenorth> so they’re bunched at either end of the scale
12:15:21 <Alberth> ah, 32 is the max it stores
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13:42:19 <Flygon> DERMs on the 2CC set tracker have a lower speed limit than they regulary ran
13:42:27 <Flygon> Is it worth trying to appeal that decision?
13:48:35 <Alberth> you should try to play with a realistic modeling set :p
13:49:48 <Alberth> real-life modeling and playability don't go together
13:58:55 <Flygon> Alright. But it bugs me to a significant margin
13:59:14 <Flygon> Half the reason the DERMs lasted from the 1920s to 1990s is because of how flexible they were
13:59:23 <Flygon> 80-100km/h is long lasting
13:59:28 <Flygon> 60km/h is the scrap heap x.x
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14:07:00 <frosch123> should i downgrade to wheezy?
14:07:12 <frosch123> somehow i only found new bugs in jessie, but no new features :p
14:07:25 <frosch123> hmm, though booting is faster
14:08:31 <Alberth> just never turn off the machine :p
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14:17:18 <frosch123> true, that would solve some of the issues :p
14:17:42 <frosch123> i always have to start evolution twice, because it fails on the first time when the gnome keyring is still locked
14:17:57 <frosch123> if i would never exit it, i would not have to start it every day :p
15:03:53 * andythenorth neglects ottd :o
15:04:40 <Wolf01> are you trying to simulate the arocs suspension system?
15:05:38 <andythenorth> I am building a crane, it won’t feature springs
15:05:54 <andythenorth> just want equalising suspension (walking beam)
15:06:51 <andythenorth> is it wasteful to use a motor to power just the fake engine :P
15:07:01 <andythenorth> no transmission on this truck, but it has fake engine…
15:07:23 <Wolf01> bind it to another function
15:07:39 <andythenorth> rotating beacon lights? :P
15:08:20 <argoneus> hey frosch123 friend
15:08:27 <argoneus> is there a way to deconstruct inserters and stuff?
15:08:30 <argoneus> to get resources back
15:09:39 <Wolf01> just explore more map and find new resources
15:17:10 <argoneus> Wolf01: and is there a way to switch which side of a conveyor the thing is on?
15:20:46 <Wolf01> the only thing i really hate is the splitter design because it is too big and inverts the items, but with vanilla it is the only way to do that
15:21:11 <argoneus> Wolf01: if you destroy a nest
15:21:14 <argoneus> does another spawn somewhere else?
15:22:18 <Wolf01> i don't know, i think nests spawn continuously, creeps usually migrate to the nearest nest if you manage to destroy the nest without killing all of them
15:22:34 <argoneus> and do the creeps upgrade themselves?
15:22:40 <argoneus> right now its some easy rats
15:27:24 <Wolf01> you will see, the smallest nest i have around my factory is 5 or 6 "buildings" with about a hundred of creeps of any kind around it
15:28:25 <Wolf01> also, V453000, we need repair pods for vehicles, i'm tired of repairing the tank every time :P
15:28:54 <argoneus> is V453000 making that game
15:28:57 <V453000> even normal roboports should fix it in the thing
15:29:22 <V453000> just graphics argoneus :)
15:29:38 <argoneus> ill probably buy this game when i get the money
15:29:58 <Wolf01> mmmh, roboports only fill my inventory with repair kits and fuel
15:30:40 <Wolf01> maybe it's because i didn't learn how to use them :P
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15:31:33 <Wolf01> only at morning and late night
15:31:57 * drac_boy throws a pillow at you anyway
15:32:07 <drac_boy> so what're you doing atm?
15:32:25 <Wolf01> playing with the wii u
15:36:31 <drac_boy> bit quiet morning for me..still sorting out a bit of real estate, some computer issues, and otherwise older emails
15:39:11 <drac_boy> still pondering about trying open a new business in a nice retail space location but heh we'll just see later this month :->
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15:50:24 * drac_boy does still wish there were some nicer choices of small-sized motherboards but meh me isn't going complain for now re sticking to pcengine's
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16:06:41 * drac_boy also maybe need to look at train fever too :->
16:08:04 <Wolf01> it's a nice game with nasty bad features
16:09:08 <Wolf01> such hurr-durr-no-road-under-bridge or you-can-not-build-a-double-track-tunnel-here-because-i-decided-so
16:15:42 <krizzbatchfile> Can you help contribute to code or with bugfixes?
16:16:13 <drac_boy> wolf01 well tbh I wouldn't care for either
16:16:53 <Wolf01> also it lacks a track planning tool, tracks are really expensive at the beginning, they mess up the terrain a lot
16:17:35 <Wolf01> krizzbatchfile, no, it's closed source, i could report bugs, but they are already well known
16:18:17 <krizzbatchfile> Terribly sorry, just logged in. Are you talking about openttd or something else?
16:18:43 <krizzbatchfile> My bad, continue on.
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16:35:04 <argoneus> factorio is really fun
16:37:05 <argoneus> are you the sole artist?
16:41:45 <V453000> NO, I just joined them rather recently :) we are 2
16:48:16 <Mazur> You can tell, standards have really dropped, since.
16:50:33 <Wolf01> mmmh, i think i'll stick a small electric pole to my back and run around like a trolleybus... the personal roboport is sucking all the fusion reactor power
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16:56:09 <Wolf01> V453000, thank you, the construction robots work as intended :)
16:56:29 <Wolf01> also, another large nest cleared
17:14:57 <drac_boy> anyway going for now mr.sleepy ;) heh
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18:16:32 <Wolf01> "i'll never build up a massive railway system in factorio" (me)... now it is starting to look like one of my ottd games
18:25:27 <argoneus> what's the point of railways anyway
18:25:35 <argoneus> arent mass conveyors enough?
18:25:59 <Wolf01> moving goods in large quantity and great distance
18:26:18 <frosch123> it depends on the map
18:26:39 <argoneus> what kind of goods do you move
18:26:42 <argoneus> in large quantity and huge distance
18:26:50 <frosch123> the last games i specifically made the maps, so railways are useful
18:27:07 <argoneus> the maps aren't procedurally generated?
18:27:08 <frosch123> meaning small mining areas, far apart
18:27:31 <frosch123> but many minerals per tile, so they do not deplete that fast
18:28:46 <Wolf01> i use trains when the belt is longer than 200 tiles
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18:29:13 <frosch123> also barreling up oil into trains is nice :)
18:29:37 <frosch123> i hope there willl never be a tank wagon :)
18:30:00 <V453000> but I personally prefer to use barrels
18:30:28 <argoneus> do you guys have any special production facilities by the way?
18:30:41 <argoneus> I just have a straight line of parallel lines which each have 1 commodity on the belt
18:30:54 <argoneus> and I fork them to assemblies and then join them back with new stuff
18:30:59 <argoneus> so I have like 8 lines with various early-midgame stuff
18:31:11 <argoneus> is that any future proof?
18:32:27 <frosch123> in later stages you need so much primary cargos, that you need multiple belts to transport them from the train station
18:32:39 <frosch123> so, mixing only makes sense near the production
18:32:46 <frosch123> or for rare cargos, like modules
18:32:49 <argoneus> nono i dont mix them
18:33:07 <frosch123> anyway, there is always the escape to use a faster belt
18:33:18 <frosch123> but personally i think you made something wrong if you need fast belts
18:34:35 <argoneus> basically I get all sorts of cargo going towards the left, and I can split them off anywhere I want
18:35:03 <frosch123> you only use one side of the belt
18:35:08 <frosch123> add a splitter and merge them back
18:35:13 <Wolf01> you could mix green circuits with cogs as many products need that combination
18:35:34 <argoneus> well I only use one side
18:35:45 <argoneus> so I can easily mix them with others
18:35:56 <argoneus> like in the bottom left corner you can see I merge cables with iron plates
18:36:01 <argoneus> it's super easy with this setup imho
18:36:12 <frosch123> argoneus: anyway, you have no space to add more iron smelters
18:36:36 <argoneus> yeah I messed up in the beginning
18:36:42 <argoneus> but if I built them vertically
18:36:44 <argoneus> I could have infinite
18:36:45 <Wolf01> i have 16 electric smelters on the main production area :P
18:36:52 <argoneus> I just have the main line of various cargo
18:36:56 <argoneus> and above/under the line factories
18:37:05 <argoneus> I can't think of any negatives
18:37:09 <argoneus> I mean, I guess it takes up space
18:37:40 <argoneus> also, is there an easy way to make a dual-line into a single-line?
18:37:53 <argoneus> i couldnt figure out a way
18:38:08 <argoneus> I only thought of using fast inserters
18:38:26 <frosch123> just add an orthongal line
18:38:41 <frosch123> see your ironore coal belt on the right
18:38:51 <Wolf01> mmmh, i really need to double some piece of rail
18:39:12 <argoneus> this game really is art
18:39:16 <argoneus> like when I look at a screenshot
18:39:20 <argoneus> it looks dogshit, sorry V453000 it does
18:39:27 <argoneus> but when all the little cogs are moving and steaming it's beautiful
18:41:04 <argoneus> do you guys have any screenshots of neat production / power setups? for inspiration
18:46:41 <Alberth> google factorio screenshot :p
18:47:52 <frosch123> the two coal line heading north go to the steam engine array, which you can see on the smallmap at the top
18:48:51 <V453000> omg frosch123 get a new version :P
18:49:08 <frosch123> that's from 0.12.4 or so
18:49:19 <frosch123> but now that there is a pwoerswitch i can try again
18:49:44 <frosch123> also on that screenshot is that stupid capcitor array
18:49:57 <frosch123> which you needed to separate electric networks before there was a power switch
18:51:21 <frosch123> V453000: is the smallmap better meanwhile ? :p
18:51:23 <V453000> all power questions are solved by more power :P
18:51:27 <frosch123> i tried to play with more ores
18:51:49 <frosch123> but with no legend on the minimal it is too much searching for where a specific mineral is
18:52:18 <V453000> recognizing 4 colours doesnt sound too hard to me :P
18:52:24 <frosch123> like "i need tin", there are twenty different coloured areas on the smallmap
18:52:29 <frosch123> no ideas which is the right one :p
18:52:41 <V453000> yearh there it is a problem
18:52:53 <frosch123> yes, for default it is not as important
18:52:59 <frosch123> you learn that in some hours :p
18:53:30 <frosch123> but since i don't like the micromanagement of fighting biters, the default economy is very limited wrt. what to do
18:55:17 <frosch123> argoneus: anyway, take a look at the splitters in V's or my screenshots
18:55:27 <frosch123> they balance the cargo accross multiple belts
18:55:40 <frosch123> for maximum throughput, without using the "cheat" of faster belts :p
18:57:47 <frosch123> [18:48] <V453000> omg frosch123 get a new version :P <- it's the smelters, isn't it?
18:57:56 <Wolf01> you don't need to fight biters, just run over them with a tank
18:58:17 <Wolf01> at least in peaceful they don't fight back
18:58:33 <Wolf01> you have to fire at them to get them angry
19:00:21 <frosch123> anyway, the most weird thing about playing without biters is that you need stone only for smelters and railway
19:01:08 <Wolf01> i don't build walls with biters enabled
19:04:49 <argoneus> thats a lot of copper...
19:05:07 <argoneus> jesus christ V453000 you never disappoint
19:05:11 <frosch123> the goal were modules :p
19:05:12 <argoneus> "oh look it's an empty tile"
19:05:16 <argoneus> "it would be a shame if something happened to it"
19:05:19 <frosch123> you need about 400 copper for one module or so
19:05:28 <frosch123> (i made the computation but forgot the result)
19:06:08 <argoneus> you guys sure like to fill both the lanes
19:06:24 <argoneus> i guess ill be crying when I get to lategame
19:07:12 <frosch123> you can see at the railstation that the cargo is not waiting
19:07:19 <frosch123> it's processed at that rate
19:07:53 <argoneus> when do I get electric furnaces?
19:08:29 <frosch123> electric furnaces need the same supplies as steel furnaces do
19:08:36 <argoneus> you always need coal?
19:08:40 <argoneus> why cant they just use electriity
19:08:57 <frosch123> unless you use solar power, you need the same amount of coal in the steamengine
19:09:05 <frosch123> as in the steel furncace
19:09:31 <frosch123> electric furnace is slightly faster, but well, just build more in parallel
19:09:45 <frosch123> and distribution the coal along the furncaes is nicer than only putting it into steam engines
19:09:57 <argoneus> i still havent figured out an optimal setup for steam engines kek
19:10:19 <frosch123> my games are all about the fancy network, and some advanced technologies work against that :p
19:10:19 <argoneus> i guess underground pipes are way to go
19:10:38 <argoneus> you can chain steam engines?
19:11:13 <argoneus> then a lot of boilers
19:11:16 <argoneus> and then a lot of steam engines?
19:11:35 <Wolf01> yes, but not many of them or you'll run out of water
19:12:09 <frosch123> argoneus: 1 pump, 14 boilers, a few tanks, 10 steam engines or so
19:12:36 <frosch123> V453000: see, now i updated but cannot open my safe anymore
19:14:17 <V453000> would have to update mods I guess
19:14:22 <Wolf01> mmmh, oil wells ran out of oil, time to fine new ones
19:15:53 <V453000> electric furnace is great once you get modules and beacons
19:15:57 <V453000> up to that point steel is just fine
19:16:26 <frosch123> can it use productivity modules?
19:16:56 <frosch123> ok, that's a reason then :)
19:17:12 <frosch123> can i feed coal to them anyway though :p
19:19:31 <Wolf01> if you use solar panels you don't need so much coal
19:19:44 <frosch123> i don't use solar panels :p
19:19:50 <Wolf01> also they don't require water
19:19:57 <frosch123> if i do not have enough coal, it means exactly that :p
19:20:03 <Wolf01> but a field of batteries :P
19:20:05 <frosch123> get a new train to new coal field
19:21:41 <Wolf01> i build 2 solar panel arrays (a 5x5 square with the substation in the middle) for every mine, it's enough to power all the drills and the inserters
19:22:04 <Wolf01> and load the batteries really fast
19:22:47 <frosch123> yeah i considered that
19:23:20 <frosch123> maybe with the new railbuiling i will drop building powerlines to mining sites
19:23:28 <frosch123> and supply them decentrally instead
19:23:46 <frosch123> though then i would again have no usecase for the powerswitch :p
19:25:34 <Wolf01> mmh, an S-shaped rail would be really cool
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19:39:16 <Wolf01> bah, got killed by train again...
19:40:02 <frosch123> better remember their schedule :)
20:03:44 <Wolf01> i have a piece of double track which is used by 5 trains
20:03:50 <Wolf01> there's always traffic there :P
20:06:35 <Wolf01> uh, i just noticed the game has a BGM
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23:32:57 <NGC3982> I love Cities Skylines
23:33:04 <NGC3982> I can't stop playing it.
23:44:10 <argoneus> or does stuff randomly disappear in splitters
23:44:20 <argoneus> im pretty sure im losing things to them
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