IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-11-25
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01:02:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know any context to that. but some train brakes need stored pressure to work, and if that was unloaded by an interruption, of a previous brake attempt, they might not work (immediately)
01:03:00 <sim-al2> Even an emergency application won't drain the system, only the control pipe
01:03:21 <sim-al2> And a reduction in the auxillary reservoirs of course
01:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there might also be secondary failures at play. like blocking of the air connection
01:08:21 <sim-al2> I missed the part before now, what is the context here?
01:08:29 <glx> it needed 20km and a hill
01:09:32 <glx> then it slowed enough so the driver could jump out of it and put blocks between rail and wheel to prevent the train to move in the other way
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01:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it could also be that the controls from the cab weren't propagated to the actual device it should engage, but i'd have expected that going to the other cab would solve that
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01:11:57 <glx> emergency brake didn't worked at all
01:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the train was probably lucky that it had 20km free
01:12:27 <sim-al2> A blockage in brake pipe (i.e. control valve) seems less likely on a EMU train than say, a locomotive-hauled train
01:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd also usually have two or three independent braking systems onboard, plus the ability to get the engine to go "backwards"
01:15:01 <Flygon> Electric Braking works hand-in-hand with Air Braking
01:15:07 <Flygon> Assuming you mean rheostatic
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01:16:06 <sim-al2> I assume that these modern MU trains have combined controls (i.e. brake handle controls air and electric)
01:16:30 <drac_boy> sorry didn't meant to leave so shortly...but anyhow started with the meat then soon the premade bread dough ... then some brown rice .. so ah yeah .. one hour supper heh :->
01:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that kinda defies the term "independent"
01:17:26 <sim-al2> Eh, I've seen this "independent" references, but I suspect that they come from media sources or others...
01:17:33 <drac_boy> sim-a12 I always wondered about some of the "desk" controls .. for me I dunno if I'm old fashioned or not but I've always prefer the separate throttle/air (other than for trams with their deadman-equipped combo handlebar)
01:18:11 <sim-al2> Plenty of rolling stock now has rolling stock where the throttle and brake control are on the same handle, works better for MU trains obviously
01:18:41 <drac_boy> hm say I forgot if theres a proper term but as I recall you had to push down the arm then turn it to get effect .. and if you ever let your weight up or anything it'll kick in the full emergency brakes
01:19:04 <sim-al2> Desk doesn't require combined controls though, see modern US locomotives with throttle, train air and independent (locomotive consist) brake controls
01:19:16 <sim-al2> Deadman handle probably
01:19:47 <drac_boy> sim-a12 yeah but this one isn't a dedicated one..I just wish I could remember the term they used for it (especially on the pre-PPC trams)
01:20:02 <sim-al2> Some equipment used a pedal instead
01:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i heard that deadman thingies are being phased out
01:20:17 <glx> seems the driver switched to emergency mode right before the collision
01:20:36 <sim-al2> Yeah, many countries use alerters of some variety now, they go off after a period of time
01:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> because studies showed that they had to be used so reflexively that the drivers literally could operate them in their sleep
01:20:59 <glx> then the emergency button in the other cab was pressed too
01:21:20 <sim-al2> Although France at least has a combined variety, the pedal has to be held down, but let up and pressed again after a period of time
01:22:12 <drac_boy> eddi also pedals were sometimes completely hated by companies themself because some drivers had too much habit of simply plopping their lunchbag (or workbag in case of steam era crews) onto the floor over pedal neutralizing its real use
01:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so the effect to prevent sleeping and cause attention was nonexistent
01:22:30 <drac_boy> at least usa-wise anyhow
01:22:39 <sim-al2> In the US there was a rear-end collision between two freight trains where the colliding train's crew seems to have both fallen asleep, but the engineer was still hitting the alerter reset every so often...
01:23:36 <glx> so nice to let them finish their sleep
01:23:53 <sim-al2> Yeah, the pedals in particular weren't that hard to defeat, at least without a system to require another action
01:23:58 <drac_boy> sim-a12 unrelated but I recall one story where a new fireman mentioned that when he finally looked to the right the engineer was completely fast asleep .. he was starting to wonder about pulling the whistle as they were getting pretty close to a road crossing when suddenly the engineer woke up for a second, pulled the whistle, then went back to sleep
01:24:22 <drac_boy> fireman quipped that the engineer must had gone over this route a thousand time that he could whistle every crossing in his sleep (which the engineer actually did)
01:24:39 <sim-al2> I've read stories like that too
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01:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there was an incident a few years ago where a railcar went off without driver, and only stopped at the other end of the line some 20km later
01:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there were no signals inbetween that could have stopped it, and all the road crossings were automatically engaged. so it had no security implications
01:27:59 <sim-al2> They were almost universal in traction (interurbans, trams, and subways used very similar equipment for many years)
01:28:19 <drac_boy> seem some other photos also show a separate brake bar too so I guess there were the triple deadman/throttle/brake and separate deadman/throttle + brake setups ... but I've not seen the latter kind personally tho
01:28:30 <sim-al2> That really could be any 1910-1930's tram/interurban car
01:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i would have expected the brake to be the handle with the blue tube running out of it on the right
01:29:03 <sim-al2> I think it is, next to the handbrake
01:29:09 <drac_boy> eddi yeah thats the separate one indeed
01:30:19 <sim-al2> Interestingly, the trams/interurbans in US had more advanced brake technology than the steam railroads did
01:30:49 <drac_boy> oh and sim-a12/eddi quick question as we're almost there .. is the "pull back for throttle, push forward for brake" kind of single desk handle a typical configuration with re highspeed sets?
01:31:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what you're talking about
01:32:12 <drac_boy> sim-a12 heh well electric started with trams and the initial mainline locomotives sometimes were pretty much based off the same technology till they progressed at their own level .. or thats what I recall from some of the usa locomotives
01:33:25 <sim-al2> Yeah, I was amused to see that graduated release appeared around at least 1906, if not before, and yet still isn't universal
01:34:24 <drac_boy> sim-a12 ah yeah brakes is an interesting history in itself
01:35:07 <sim-al2> I've been looking, appearently the Shinksansen still have seperate brake handles, and so do the European high-speed trains
01:36:32 <drac_boy> sim-a12 there is also the thing where some of the 4-4-2 and similar small big-drivers steam locomotives often only had good brakes on the tender and perhaps the trailing/pony axles so one unofficial way to bring them down a long grade (even train inspectors knew it was not in the book but they turned a blind eye to it anyway) always was to set the throttle slightly in reverse and keep up a modest fire going
01:36:55 <drac_boy> talk about using backcompression to keep speed in check as there was not enough brakepad power otherwise
01:37:23 <sim-al2> I've seen that, appearently it's fine as long as pressure to the cylinders is not too high
01:38:03 <drac_boy> and even one engineer quipped "I always set it into the little hole" when asked how he made station stops .. theres of course no such thing as "little hole" .. he actually meant he always dumped emergency brakes!
01:38:17 <drac_boy> sometimes you got to wonder about these particular little-and-fast steamers :)
01:38:44 <sim-al2> That might work on a commuter train... the ride though must have been pretty rough
01:38:51 <drac_boy> this wasn't commuter :)
01:39:20 <sim-al2> Stopping downhill? 0.o
01:39:53 <drac_boy> at least later the boiler got bigger (to sustain longer lightweight consists and ever-higher speeds) so eventually the modern 4-4-4's and so had no problem being fully equipped on all roller bearing axles with air brakes
01:40:49 <sim-al2> I've been reading through a book in the library, it specifices a lot of cool brake information, but the brake ratios have been pretty high almost from the beginning, 150% in emergency is possible (and results in a very hard stop)
01:41:36 <drac_boy> they literally could do "a mile a minute" easily (and if late? well umm don't ask how fast she'll go!)
01:42:01 <sim-al2> well, 60mph=1mile/minute
01:42:12 <drac_boy> sim-a12 one of the funny thing about these particular trains is that the ads said "as fast and swift as an arrow" or something to that effect
01:42:30 <drac_boy> back then in the 1930's that was probably believeable :)
01:43:07 <sim-al2> Compared to most other things, sustained speeds like that definetly would be good
01:44:55 <drac_boy> ah looks like the schedules for the later larger version (same streamlining look tho) was 160kph (with stop-go average speed being 130kph)
01:45:24 <drac_boy> of course everything got slowed down rapidly due to traffic crunch in 1940+
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01:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> all express steam engines i know that used B-coupling were discontinued quickly because of too low TE
01:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> which lead to 2'C1' being THE wheel arrangement for this type of engine
01:46:26 <drac_boy> well it could depend on the trains themself tho .. canada actually used the 4-4-2 to quite good effect on short loads along the london<>quebeccity network
01:47:14 <drac_boy> but if you wanted to handle say a heavy newyork to boston load then yeah "just" 3 coaches would be too insufficent
01:51:45 <sim-al2> On the big limited trains, even 4-6-2 wasn't enough, with 4-6-4 and even 4-8-4 appearing before the end
01:52:37 <drac_boy> but then again having a relatively level land probably helped
01:53:00 <drac_boy> new york partially had to get their very huige 4-8-4 because some part of their route involved close to 2% grades
01:53:26 <sim-al2> Yeah, level routes probably could go even longer easily, but once it gets hilly...
01:54:20 <drac_boy> (hint: look down, not up)
01:55:33 <sim-al2> Got to put it somewhere :)
01:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the germans built a 2'Do1' steam engine
01:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> with 4 individually driven axles instead of coupled axles
01:56:50 <sim-al2> That sounds complex...
01:58:29 <drac_boy> sim-a12 yeah .. still .. it was a massive thing ;)
01:58:40 <drac_boy> killed early due to diesels tho
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02:03:27 <drac_boy> eddi ahh I remember seeing that before..one sec..
02:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it seems to have rather small wheels for such a fast engine
02:08:20 <drac_boy> nevermind might look for it tomorrow
02:08:31 <drac_boy> either way going for now..have fun sim-a12 ;)
02:52:52 <Flygon_> sim-al2: Seeing you two discuss how the wheel arrangements just got bigger and bigger..
02:53:03 <Flygon_> I'm surprised more railways didn't just make artic. lcoos
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03:03:46 <Flygon> They were pretty speedy, too
03:05:57 <sim-al2> There were a number of articulated freight engines, both Mallet and simple
03:09:58 <Flygon> I am so disappointed none were preserved
03:10:10 <Flygon> If only to see if it truly was the Shinkansen before Shinkansens existed
03:10:39 <Flygon> It would've been nice for them to live long enough
03:10:51 <Flygon> To be converted to 4-8-4, instead of 4-4-4-4
03:12:52 <Flygon> There's a group building a replica...
03:12:58 <Flygon> I wonder if they'll go 4-4-4-4 or 4-8-4...
03:14:20 <Flygon> "The T-1 4-4-4-4 had such power that the engineer, if not careful on the throttle, could have violent wheel slip at 100 miles per hour, causing damage to the poppet valves"
03:14:35 <Flygon> There's clearly some design issues that require some modifications when building a modern one x.x
03:15:49 <sim-al2> That's one of the difficult things with steam locomotives, the idlers are needed to keep axle load down but decreasing the weight on the drivers makes the low factor of adhesion even worse
03:18:50 <Flygon> Wasn't the only reason they went with two separate drivers because WWII required them to use crap steel?
03:19:17 <Flygon> Given there isn't a WWII going on atm, they could probably get the drawbars made out of tungsten if they wanted to xP
03:20:07 <sim-al2> Uh no, these were possibly some of the most advanced steamers ever built, the 2 sets of drivers were for good performance at high speeds, with some very, very complex camshaft valve gear
03:22:31 <sim-al2> Drawbar strength is usually limited so that it breaks first and not other things, like the PRR found out with wooden boxcars
03:22:44 <Flygon> I just assumed it was because poor quality steel meant they couldn't build a strong enough drawbar when designing for a 4-8-4 arrangement
03:22:51 <Flygon> Whereas 4-4-4-4 is far less stressful because, y'know
03:24:17 <sim-al2> Plenty of steam locomotives were built during the war, and although probably not as quality steel, they were a priority production item
03:24:42 <sim-al2> The 4-4-4-4 production run happened after the war ended
03:26:03 <sim-al2> Actually there was a material problem, the poppet valves used in the valve gear weren't strong enough for the demands required of them and needed replacement often
03:27:38 <Flygon> It has been a while since I looked into it, note x.x
03:28:19 <sim-al2> But that was more of a problem with complex valvegear, which is why many locomotives still had simplier sliding types
03:31:53 <sim-al2> Basically the 4-4-4-4 is the one of the ultimate expressions of the Superpower steam locomotives of the 1930s, they measured 6500hp in a running tests, which puts it among the most powerful ever built
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03:56:35 <Flygon> sim-al2: And I thougth Heavy Harry hitting 3500-4000hp was overkill x.x
04:02:02 <Flygon> I forgot if the T1 was in the 2CC set or not...
04:02:10 <Flygon> Prolly isn't set for 225km/h either way <_>
04:02:39 <sim-al2> Running costs did the big ones in, although some like the 4-8-8-4 "Big Boys" earned their keep in service, espeically during WWII
04:04:35 <Flygon> Harry lasted from the late 30s to around 1956ish here...
04:04:46 <Flygon> Probably due to how absurdly overpowered it was
04:05:22 <Flygon> Hell, even publications locally in the 1950s would say "Australia's Best/Most Powerful/Whatever Locomotive". Despite it being over 15 years old and stuck in the middle of the Diesel-Electric revolution.
04:07:57 <Flygon> Just kind of baffling that they designed Australia's single most useful freight locomotive of the era while trying to design an express passenger locomotive
04:08:08 <Flygon> They designed it for the opposite purpose what it was best at!!
04:09:24 <sim-al2> With enough pulling power, a big express locomotive easily makes a decent fast freight locomotive too, universal locomotives have been around for a long time
04:11:01 <Flygon> "Enough pulling power"
04:11:19 <Flygon> They built the most powerful non-articulated locomotive in Australia until the NR-Class finally overtook it
04:11:38 <sim-al2> 4-8-4 will do it, especially with the axle load limits
04:12:12 <Flygon> That the axle load was so high
04:12:21 <Flygon> It was only actually allowed to run on one branchline
04:12:30 <Flygon> And it wasn't even the intended branchline
04:12:53 <sim-al2> Also I wonder if the need existed either, given that most of the railways bought diesels that could MU
04:12:54 <Flygon> Tho, nowadays, it could probably run on both it's 'intended' line, and the branchline it ended up running on
04:12:58 <Flygon> Gauge conversion permitting
04:13:10 <Flygon> It was built in the 1930s. Diesels weren't a thing.
04:13:17 <Flygon> Though, I want to note
04:13:30 <Flygon> Later VR steam locos got fitted with DMU capability
04:13:41 <sim-al2> Right, but obviously either money was lacking or the need wasn't great enough for serial production
04:13:50 <Flygon> The steam loco had to lead (because, y'know, the Diesel locomotives can't drive the steam locomotive), but otherwise...
04:14:04 <sim-al2> I'm sure that little WWII invasion threat didn't help
04:14:13 <Flygon> Yeah, WWII is what borked everything over
04:14:16 <Flygon> It's kind of frustrating
04:14:26 <Flygon> VR wanted to undergo a HUGE network renewal project
04:14:38 <Flygon> The H-Class was just part of it...
04:14:51 <Flygon> And instead they had 10-15 years of runnng their rollingstock down to the bone
04:15:24 <Flygon> Such as Freight Locomotives being forcibly made to run the Spirit of Progress streamliners...
04:15:44 <Flygon> (not that they didn't do half bad in keeping the schedule, but it's obviously not ideal)
04:16:01 <sim-al2> So in the US, EMD and the other manufacturers got a big boost out of replacing wornout steamers with their new designs
04:16:15 <Flygon> And when VR finally got the chance to undergo their biggest infrastructure renewal in the 1950s
04:16:58 <Flygon> Including electrifying a shitload of the network, and ordering a crapload of Steam and Diesel locos (they were still unsure about Diesel locos at the time. This's also why we have so many ridiculously modern steam locos running about today still).
04:17:05 <Flygon> And they went right on it.
04:17:27 <Flygon> I do note, part of the reason also that VR had to limit Diesel orders is because they only wanted AMERICAN Diesels
04:17:36 <Flygon> And they had limited USD available...
04:17:50 <Flygon> (Electric locos were English Electric, so, no currency problems there)
04:18:00 <Flygon> They ran out of USD early
04:18:14 <Flygon> And then the Government/s cut the Operation Phoenix budget by 90%.
04:18:19 <sim-al2> I noticed that English Electric had some early success with South Australia/CR
04:18:20 <Flygon> Which kind of caught VR by surprise.
04:19:03 <Flygon> So VR were kind of stuck in stagnation from the 1950s to the 1990s simply due to the moment that should've made them an incredibly modern operator
04:19:17 <Flygon> Instead leaving them where they started
04:19:34 <Flygon> And the flow-on effects are STILL felt to this day
04:19:50 <Flygon> With V/Line having to keep 1930s era VR stock on-call, and other equipment shortages
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10:37:27 <Flygon> Not sure if satire or real
10:43:30 <Wolf01> but knowing the reality it might be real as well
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13:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure i miss a lot in xkcd...
13:16:18 <SpComb> all you need to explore it is a slow compiler :)
13:19:45 <planetmaker> well, there's more coins than in the immediate vicinity :D
13:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i got that far :p
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13:42:04 <planetmaker> hm, Elon Musk's volcanic lair...
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14:54:48 <sim-al2> Not sure what decade that site was made
14:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> looks very 90s :)
14:55:17 <Wolf01> i think when clip art cd-roms were still in use
14:55:26 <sim-al2> The rotating pizza-texture arrow at the bottom seals it for me
14:55:41 <Wolf01> we really had that bad taste in the '90?
14:56:23 <Wolf01> you mean the flash obscure age?
14:56:45 <sim-al2> Yes, Geocities and the like allowed for some truely horrible design
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14:56:58 <sim-al2> At least this one doesn't have sound
14:58:51 <__ln___> it's not a 90s site, there's css in the source code.
15:00:15 <Wolf01> looking at the uppercase tags it might be frontpage, with a little hand touch for the most recent additions
15:01:39 <sim-al2> Every webpage editor should include a warning box when someone selects Comic Sans, asking them why they would ever do that
15:01:44 <Wolf01> the table in the center might be generated from dreamweaver or sameshit
15:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never used any of those programs
15:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my father (or maybe my uncle) had frontpage in the late 90s
15:03:05 <Wolf01> i used frontpage once, when i understood i needed to clean the shit by hand i started to use notepad (yes, the windows notepad)
15:03:41 <Wolf01> but at that time i did only some cd-rom interactive menus
15:05:01 <Wolf01> for websites i used notepad++, komodo edit, and now the most practical of the things: phpstorm
15:07:27 <Wolf01> uhm, i really need to switch to phpstorm license to the new plan, so 2 years at the price of one
15:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't done a lot of html... i don't remember what i used.
15:10:24 <Wolf01> ok, license plan renewed until april 2018
15:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you really use programs which you have to renew?
15:12:45 <Wolf01> no, i could use the version i purchased, but i like to get new updates every now and then
15:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i'll never know if i've seen everything/collected all coins
15:56:03 <Wolf01> why do you abort my connection, software?
15:58:49 <Wolf01> i would blame beer, but i don't drink alcohol
16:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that ever stop anybody?
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17:04:28 <Wolf01> you are off by 1 char, remove one _
17:04:31 <__ln___> okay, now it looks like a christmas tree
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17:04:52 <__ln__> admittedly that wasn't the initial goal
17:06:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the christmas tree is a bit one-sided
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17:10:16 <Alberth> wolf already provided the other side?
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17:28:35 <Wolf01> i don't want a christmas tree
17:33:25 <Wolf01> i don't believe in cocacola made-up holidays
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18:18:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or is it cocacola-made up-holidays?
18:19:34 <Wolf01> feel free to fix my writing
18:21:38 <Wolf01> the grammar nazi me is asleep now
18:29:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that was more of a joke ;)
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19:38:15 <Wolf01> meh, i might need ships in factorio
19:39:22 <SikoR> hi guys i would use some of your helps in seting up a port forwarding at my router, can u be nice and help me?
19:40:18 <Wolf01> tell us the specific problem and we might help you :)
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19:40:36 <glx> usually google knows better
19:40:36 <SikoR> the default port is 3979, but you can change it to anything you like when you start a server. If you set up your own server behind a router, you need to forward both TCP and UDP on that port.
19:40:36 <SikoR> Communication with the master-server works via port 3979 over UDP (inbound + outbound) and 3978 over UDP (outbound)
19:40:36 <SikoR> If you are joining a server you do not need to forward any ports, as connections are outbound only.
19:40:56 <DorpsGek> frosch123: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
19:41:16 <SikoR> at my server nat>virtual server>custom
19:41:29 <SikoR> and now i stuck at names
19:42:06 <SikoR> external port start| external port end| protocl (udp/tcp)| internal port start
19:42:48 <SikoR> and remote IP i did set my pc to have a static ip adress when it connects to the router but where should i type that
19:43:14 <SikoR> oh i thought it would be sth like that but that start and end just get me little bit unsure
19:43:35 <Wolf01> remote should be any ip, the internal one should be your pc static ip
19:43:47 <Wolf01> usually "any" is 0.0.0.0
19:44:09 <SikoR> so server ip adress is my pc ip and remote ip is just 0.0.0.0
19:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27457 /trunk/src/lang (croatian.txt spanish.txt) (2015-11-25 19:45:12 +0100 )
19:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:24 <DorpsGek> croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
19:45:25 <DorpsGek> spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
19:45:26 <SikoR> thanks! that help a lot
19:47:57 <SikoR> if that 0.0.0.0 is invalid should i change it to 0.0.0.1?
19:48:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably not right
19:49:41 <SikoR> but router doesn't accept 0.0.0.0 as valid remote host
19:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure you're in the right setup screen?
19:51:14 <SikoR> advanced setup->nat->virtual server(the one that have some presets for games feC&C AoE)->and i tried to custom
19:52:46 <SikoR> so i think it is correct directory
19:54:09 <SikoR> btw. does it matter if i use laptop to be my middleman between PC and router?
19:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> this might be for some bridge stuff, which would make an external server look like it's in the local network
19:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> try another setup screen, which reads like "port forwarding"
19:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> port mapping sounds good
19:56:21 <SikoR> there is some presets for aim talk and icq
19:58:05 <SikoR> i got some trigger port start | end <tcp/udp>open port start | end <tcp/udp>
19:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you want trigger
20:02:09 <SikoR> and port mapping not looking similar to anything where i can type that tcp udp 3979 ports
20:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> then you should study your router documentation
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20:08:44 <SikoR> i think that this first directory is OK but i didn't try to leave remote host blank
20:09:56 <SikoR> 0.0.0.0 is invalid but if i leave it blank is OK.
20:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i was sure i suggested that, but i don't find it reading back
20:15:57 <SikoR> thanks ! u did good job i think it's good atm
20:33:31 <SikoR> next problem just cosmetics
20:34:24 <SikoR> i mean if i use my laptop as a bridge/middleman between router and pc it's not working
20:35:28 <SikoR> if i start a serwer at laptop i can join from pc but not in the other way
20:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> we certainly do not know how you set up your "bridge"
20:42:28 <SikoR> so i should search google for port forwarding bridge windows or there is any words more concrete that will help too
20:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "Turkish protesters who wanted to hit the russian consulate with eggs hit the dutch consulate instead. they confused the flags"
20:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> SikoR: there are two very distinct ways how to "bridge" networks
20:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> SikoR: one is an actual bridge (intermediate just blindly forwards packets both ways), and the other is a staged network (intermediate acts as a router/firewall and selectively forwards packets)
20:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> depending on what you want, the setup processes will be completely different
20:52:18 <SikoR> ok so it's a hard work.
20:53:01 <Wolf01> in the matrix, it seem
20:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> SikoR: it's mostly a small number of clicks, but you need to know what exactly you want to know which clicks are the right ones
20:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that's what happens when people take xkcd too seriously
20:56:26 <SikoR> so it's a hard work for someone who's like blindfolded ;)
20:59:04 <SikoR> anyway i would like to thank u for putting your time in helping me I appreciate it.
21:13:02 <frosch123> SikoR: just in case: if you only want to play between your pc and your notewook within your homenetwork, you don't need any port forwarding
21:13:25 <frosch123> port forwarding is only required to let other people play over the internet on your computer
21:13:59 <SikoR> i want to play with friends not just throught lan
21:25:10 <andythenorth> if the router has an web-based admin interface, it’s usually easy
21:29:05 * andythenorth wonders if FIRS 2 will ever ship
21:29:37 <frosch123> does it have a web-based admin interface?
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21:40:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: it used to, but I deleted that ;)
21:41:37 <andythenorth> serialising-deserialising the data to get it into newgrf was too tedious :)
21:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> should have automated it
21:46:47 <andythenorth> it was the code that was tedious :P
21:46:54 <andythenorth> I should have automated writing the code
21:50:24 <andythenorth> writing code is never going to solve the problem
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22:00:10 <drac_boy> eddi just a little random tidbit curiousity .. I wondered if the uk signalman had any terms for these semaphore signals they had to operate .. in usa I know some of the types were called armstrong levers because of needing big muscles to pull them into position heh
22:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause> have i mentioned that i have ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING CLUE about foreign signalling systems?
22:03:35 <frosch123> he only asked you about the brittish
22:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> last i checked, british was foreign :p
22:07:34 <drac_boy> talk about modern diesel finding itself in front of fully operating semaphores :)
22:08:22 <drac_boy> the line is Raton Pass (in case sim-a12 is curious)
22:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that strange?
22:10:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what's foreign for you?
22:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: anything that is not domestic
22:14:53 <Rubidium> so you know everything about both east and west german signalling stuff?
22:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that is an invalid inversion
22:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "A=>B" does not imply "¬A=>¬B"
22:17:30 <Rubidium> interestingly the EU has a gross domestic product ;)
22:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: of course, "domestic" depends on your personal point of view :p
22:18:55 <Rubidium> that's why defining domestic as not foreign is quite useless
22:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause> however, i did not do that :p
22:19:57 <Rubidium> true, you did the inverse... defining foreign as not domestic
22:20:20 <Rubidium> ah well, splitting hairs
22:20:41 <Rubidium> germany has way too many signals
22:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it has like 5 completely different systems
22:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and then regional variations on those
22:25:48 <frosch123> i thought foreign means non-korean
22:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it might mean that, if you are korean :p
22:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that could be practically anywhere...
22:31:15 <frosch123> it's a szene in a theme park for sunflower-shaped aliens
22:31:15 <drac_boy> you'll have to photoshop the engine and that background to get any non-korea effect tho :)
22:33:22 <frosch123> depends on the type of flower
22:33:29 <drac_boy> about half of the photos I've looked for NS trains (aside to that I have one dutch magazine with a few more) always had these kind of flowerbeds next to them
22:33:29 <frosch123> tulips mean dutchistan
22:33:50 <drac_boy> not too sure why but I guess the people there are too happy to care for a lot of flowers :)
22:34:26 <Rubidium> drac_boy: they make a lot of money
22:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany you'd find lots of rapeseed instead
22:44:06 <drac_boy> and umm vines for the french? :) (or at least that was some of the purpose for the 60cm lines existing till roads ousted them)
22:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you need specific ground formations and climate for vines
22:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you can find those as well in germany
22:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the colour scheme of that dutch train kinda looks like the old colour scheme of the munich S-Bahn
22:48:37 <drac_boy> hm didn't know they had used blue .. I somehow always associate with cream/red (early belin sbhan) or modern db red
22:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> blue/white are kinda the signature colours of munich/bavaria :p
22:50:00 <drac_boy> heh well I didn't know that till now
22:51:22 <drac_boy> I do seem to think that bavaria steam was rather often green with either green or red tire spokes ... compared to black with red chassis/spokes for drg otherwise
22:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> originally they wanted a different colour for each city
22:51:58 <drac_boy> mm could had been interesting if that did really happen ^
22:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: black for steam was rather "modern", the older the more colourful they were
22:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the orange was meant for the Rhein/Ruhr area, and for Frankfurt i think they intended a red version, but then also made it orange
22:54:13 <drac_boy> there was also navy blue on some locomotives around the world but this seem to had been an individual thing (as in not an entire class at any time carried it etc)
22:54:32 <drac_boy> I wonder if yellow was on the list :) (re emu colours)
22:54:43 <drac_boy> might had been too easy to confuse with track maintenance trains tho
22:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a yellow train operated by Lufthansa, between the airports of Köln and Frankfurt, i believe. or possibly Düsseldorf
22:55:43 <drac_boy> oh..that the white/yellow airport shuttle right?
22:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> as an alternative to flying short distance
22:57:08 <drac_boy> I've seen marklin's trainset for that quite a few times (it always seem to show up in the catalog photopages a lot even if not always actually catalogized)
22:57:09 <frosch123> there are regional mus from private corporations in about any colour
22:57:19 <frosch123> but usually they are not uni coloured
22:58:15 <drac_boy> ah yeah I remember why I seem to recall that train easily ... it had that rather quirky nose styling for the cab coach end .. almost like a shallow wide duck mouth
22:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, that's the wrong image
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23:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes, but there was also a locomotive+wagons version of this train
23:03:08 <drac_boy> interesting way they styled the blue/red strip on these trains btw (especially arrow ends on side and the band over the headlights)
23:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause> those were the 70s... nowadays everything has to be monotone red... (with mandatory highlights around the doors)
23:08:28 <drac_boy> japan at least generally seem to prefer silver with strips of other colours added onto that (re commuter sets) .. although sometimes I don't know about the particular windshield design certain ones have :-s
23:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they tried to break that pattern here by mandating that trains in the region must have main colour silver, which DB accented with green doors and abellio with red doors
23:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (i think they took green because that's the colour of the S-Bahn logo/lines on maps)
23:13:33 <drac_boy> at least the newer amtrak don't have the white background behind the strips so they do seem a bit better (but still not a favorite of mine)
23:14:21 <drac_boy> mm that abellio2.jpg one does look decent
23:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a test drive. they begin operation this december
23:15:55 * drac_boy will have to see if the Today Railway Europe magazine ever mentions it or not :p
23:17:33 <drac_boy> either way was nice talking about this but I'm going off soon for a bit tho :)
23:19:04 <drac_boy> either way be back in a hour give or take :)
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