IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-11-26
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01:21:01 <Flygon> It's the Fleshlight Train
01:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how this is worth commenting
01:21:31 <drac_boy> and thankfully they are not actually using that kind of styling but the new one coming soon still looks a bit weird to me with these LED "strip" lights
01:21:41 <Flygon> It's one of the most bizarre trains I've ever seen
01:21:45 <Flygon> Anyway, gonna reboot soon
01:21:52 <drac_boy> I still want to whack whoever came up with that can-like rendering at first tho
01:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 90% of things people come up with are shit. but the other 10% wouldn't exist if you couldn't tolerate weeding through all of it.
01:34:59 <Flygon> This channel has a lot of guests...
01:35:12 <drac_boy> what you doing atm anyhow?
01:37:57 <Flygon> Gonna work on a pic soon
01:40:38 <Flygon> Nah, I just wanna avoid crashes
01:40:44 <Flygon> I need to start doing this stuff on a desktop...
01:40:52 <Flygon> SAI needs a full 64-but ver
01:41:56 <drac_boy> guess we'll talk another time instead then
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01:55:46 <drac_boy> some usa people here (not sure of aussie ones) call them Bulldog's
01:56:03 <Flygon_> They look like the ones that used to run in outback Australia
01:56:10 <drac_boy> almost a bit like the usa carbody loco except for flatter roof sections (due to the radiators apparently)
01:56:23 <Flygon_> The world's oldest/last remaining regular bulldog nose pax service is run by V/Line
01:56:36 <Flygon_> A66 just... keeps going. Baffling everyone.
01:58:01 <drac_boy> flygon well..thats typical of alco engines ...they may be quite smokey sometimes but they seem hard to kill if they're already running :)
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01:58:27 <drac_boy> (kinda explains why many small tourist lines have RS-1's in their fleet)
01:59:38 <Flygon> (the fact that they'd use a V/Line loco that looks like it was built yesterday to haul a purely heratage train shows how old the machine really is!)
02:00:15 <drac_boy> oh and flygon weird but true story .. in one rather bad winter morning New Haven found nearly all diesel locomotives frozen up except for a few (and several of that involved the DL-109's)
02:00:42 <Flygon> You make it sound like they ran on Windows 95
02:01:46 <Flygon> (tho, Sydney's M-sets do run on Windows 2000, Windows 3.11, Windows XP, and Windows CE... simultainiously)
02:02:29 <Flygon> (yes, 3.11. 2000 is the one that holds all four together. 3.11 is purely there because they needed a 16-bit frontend... and 3.11 was capable of doing that AND talking to 2000. No wonder the train's computers keep crashing!)
02:03:27 <drac_boy> problem: too many variations
02:03:55 <Flygon> (iirc, the successor (the A-sets/Waratahs) just run on Linux)
02:06:32 <drac_boy> heh that trainset doesn't look too bad .. but think we'll talk about that another time as I'm leaving in a moment :)
02:07:51 <drac_boy> you weird :p anyway bye till next time aussie ;)
02:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that stranger than today's special (advertising) liveries?
02:10:03 <Flygon> They used the wrong tone of green
02:10:24 <Flygon> Which clashes horridly with the yellow
02:10:41 <Flygon> A darker green (akin to a leaf with a dark green) would've worked better with the yellow
02:10:48 <Flygon> Particulary if the Yellow was made... cheesier
02:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> like a few years ago when poland printed some of its electrical engines in flags of the countries taking part in the european cup
02:13:11 <Flygon> I bet they got the colour balance right xP
02:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> flags usually have very clearly defined colours :p
02:17:42 <Flygon> But you still need to paint them
02:17:48 <Flygon> And sometimes you can stuff it up
02:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and since these special liveries are not painted, but printed and glued on, it's probably easier to correct early on
02:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> he always does that
02:20:45 <Flygon> I'd say "Annoys me when peeps do that"
02:23:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in my days we called that "Blitzquitter"
02:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (from "Blitz" meaning "lightning")
02:24:06 <Flygon> Yeah, I gathered from... er
02:24:14 <Flygon> A few odd sources now that I think on it
02:24:22 <Flygon> Whee, FFX and Ragnarok Online <_>
02:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that's, of course, also where the word "Blitzkrieg" comes from. it's supposed to be a war that is over as quick as a lightning strike
02:53:18 <Flygon> I'mma work on art involving Candles for now, either way x.x
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12:44:12 <planetmaker> @calc 0.03 * 74 * 365
12:44:16 <planetmaker> @calc 0.03 * 74 * 365 / 60
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13:28:10 <DorpsGek> argoneus: Error: float division by zero
13:31:06 <DorpsGek> argoneus: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
13:31:30 <DorpsGek> argoneus: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
13:31:39 <DorpsGek> argoneus: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
13:31:48 <DorpsGek> argoneus: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
13:32:00 <argoneus> it's smarter than me
13:47:41 <V453000> also, Q: when I am defining train power, say engine A has power 1000. I then want to multiply this power by 1.2 to get 20% bonus.
13:47:57 <V453000> can I in NML define a variable like PowerA which would be 1000 and use it in all of the calculations?
13:48:15 <V453000> like switch .. check for rail type, if railtype -whatever-, then use this variable and multiply it that way?
13:48:42 <V453000> or re-define a new variable which does that operation and only load the operation in the switch?
13:51:12 <V453000> also, is there a way to check how many -items- are in consist?
13:51:39 <V453000> like if I have some kind of wagon which would influence the whole train, counting those and making the effect stack up?
13:51:40 <planetmaker> I can't say I got your question about the power calculation, what you want to do where and how and use where else
13:51:48 <planetmaker> it probably needs an example :P
13:52:20 <V453000> cant dig one up atm, but last time I was doing things like trains adapting to PURR tracks
13:52:32 <planetmaker> and if it's just about power... use powered wagons instead of funky math
13:53:10 <V453000> is a switch which has a switch checking for railtype ... if railtype = whatever, then have power of 1200 .... but I couldnt put there a originalPower * 1.2
13:53:19 <V453000> am asking if there is some variable way to go around this
13:53:24 <V453000> because I do a lot of those operations
13:53:35 <V453000> '... powered wagons are another thing, I use those as well in different way :P
13:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you can use "variable=1000" and then use "variable" in switch calculations. this uses up one of the parameter slots
13:54:52 <V453000> like parameter of the whole grf?
13:55:07 <planetmaker> no, iirc you cannot read a property such as power
13:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i think nml reserves some for internal use, you might have like 64
13:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it should tell you at the end of your compile
13:55:48 <planetmaker> ^ I think that's right
13:56:18 <V453000> one more thing, more wtf ... but I guess pm answered that
13:56:43 <V453000> can I increase power of the whole train by, say, 20% by attaching some super-powered wagon?
13:57:01 <V453000> I guess by hacks I theoretically could, but the idea is what is happening when I get 2 of them
13:57:08 <planetmaker> you can increase the power of the whole train by X horse powers. 20% is difficult
13:57:11 <V453000> or 3, ... if the effect can multiply
13:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i think the engine defines how much a wagon adds
13:57:17 <planetmaker> of course X can be 20%. But ...
13:58:11 <V453000> being able to calculate how many in_consist vehicle type IDs are
13:58:17 <V453000> like how many wagons with X id are there
13:58:20 <planetmaker> extra_power_per_wagon
13:58:20 <V453000> is that possible in some way?
13:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the wagon itself has no power, the powered_wagon callback of the engine defines how many and which wagons get power
13:58:34 <V453000> pm I dont want it just for power :P
13:59:21 <planetmaker> num_vehs_in_vehid_chain or so
13:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: there is definitely a 60+ variable which counts vehicle id in consist
14:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i leave it as an exercise for the reader to find out what the nml name of that variable is
14:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> note that this kind of counting might be skewed when mixing vehicle sets
14:03:27 <V453000> See num_vehs_in_consist, but not of the complete vehicle but only all consecutive parts with the same id.
14:03:57 <V453000> can I use this to count them in the whole train if I know, say, 10 possible IDs that can occur there?
14:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that is one of the 40+ variables
14:05:41 <V453000> reader seems unfucked
14:05:50 <V453000> The number of vehicles in the current consist that have the given ID.
14:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, "count_veh_id"
14:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> use with PARENT scope
14:07:11 <Eddi|zuHause> also, multiple engines might have weird/unwanted behaviour
14:08:42 <V453000> it will only be used with 1 engine trains, they cant attach anything else, not even themselves
14:08:46 <V453000> they are 2-headed though
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14:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes what you're saying makes absolutely no sense
14:26:40 <planetmaker> V453000, no point to count anything, if the engine per definition is the whole train as nothing can attachi. Is there?
14:28:02 <V453000> eh yeah I meant attach any other engines
14:28:07 <V453000> they can of course attach the wagons in question
14:33:30 <V453000> something completely different, can I somehow count time since last service?
14:33:34 <V453000> there is date of last service
14:33:40 <V453000> can I somehow subtract that from current date?
14:36:46 <V453000> tough questions today :P
14:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> don't use current date in calculations. it'll desync
14:43:43 <V453000> even if I use the calculation only in depot/station?
14:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you could try it in purely visual contexts
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14:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, "current date" is one of the global variables
14:44:28 <V453000> right, just changing sprites
14:46:50 <V453000> so current_date - date_of_last_service = date(year, month, day) ?
15:00:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference between two dates is not a day
15:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the number of days in the timeframe
15:02:52 <eM> Oh, i thought the difference between two dates was that one was named after a terrorist, and the other after a different one
15:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think akbar is a name :p
15:07:26 <planetmaker> he, that's a nicest capcha I just ever saw: a selection of 10 images with "click on the image of Einstein to proceed"
15:07:38 <planetmaker> fitting for a science journal :D
15:09:21 <V453000> and picture is called einsten.png to make it harder for bots? :P
15:12:40 <eM> planetmaker: i propose a captcha like that that just filters out anyone with an IQ<100
15:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't google want to get rid of captchas?
15:17:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "we know whether you're a bot or not long before you show up at the site"
15:18:17 <eM> Yeaaaa, big google is watching you :P
15:20:07 <planetmaker> V453000, something like /captcha/969cc278-9448-11e5-90ba-7e5aa7f98ea7/9687a301a5 according to URL source :P
15:20:14 <planetmaker> so someone paid attention ;)
15:22:08 <Flygon_> eM: Are you trying to get me banned?
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15:22:30 <Flygon> I... don't have anything going for me
15:22:39 <Flygon> I'm #openttd's pet!... I think
15:22:45 <Flygon> I don't know, I'm too stupid to tell
15:27:33 <V453000> best german band name award 2015 by me: We Butter The Bread With Butter XD
15:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't listen to them :p
15:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> they take popular children songs, and perform them in a metal-growling-style
15:37:56 <V453000> idk the music sounds a lot more than I would expect from their name XD
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16:06:43 <Wolf01> V453000, we have bands with absurd names also here, my cousin was a guitarist in a band called After Moat, another band from my area is RumaTera (ground diggers) and i don't even remember the most beautifully stupid names of the other bands
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17:19:14 <eM> Hmmmh, i can see the resemblance, Eddi|zuHause, but i also get a tiny nazi-vibe from that helmet.
17:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> eM: there are lots of places nowadays where you could get a nazi vibe...
17:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> like when Sarkozy demands a "total war"
17:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> might be a poor translation, but pretty much...
17:21:16 * eM can just HEAR the words "WOHLT IHR DEN TOTALEN KRIEG" in my mind
17:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and, of course, all the actual nazis beating down on immigrants and fugitives
17:23:31 <eM> Bah. you'd think germany would be the ONE country on this planet where that kind of things wouldn't be able to happen ever again
17:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> where, of course, almost all the paris terrorists are native french, or are french/belgian citizens most of their life
17:24:57 <eM> Pfeh. if there were terrorists inbetween those refugees they wouldn't strike a concert hall. at least, i wouldn't.
17:25:44 <eM> I'd strike at a refugee center. making it very clear that you can leave syria/deash, but they won't leave you
17:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> there were in the order of 500 strikes against refugee homes in germany this year
17:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> some of them occupied, some before the fugitives could move in
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18:11:18 <__ln__> aren't all the *actual* nazis in their 90s already?
18:11:49 <TurkeyTourism> Hi, how to change the hight of tree growth for subtropical landscape?
18:12:54 <TurkeyTourism> I find only option snow_line_height for snow in subartical.
18:15:38 <V453000> from what I understand I think the problem is not that there would be terrorists among immigrants, the problem is that they create ghettos and slums, which is perfect ground for extremism
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18:25:40 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: nazis did not suddenly freeze in time just because the war ended...
18:26:59 <__ln__> but the party probably hasn't accepted new members after the end of war
18:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> just because the nazi party and organizations were forbidden, doesn't mean there didn't exist structures that nurtured nazi ideology
18:30:36 <TurkeyTourism> Perhaps the problem is that the economic foundation of the EU creates an excellent living conditions on its own territory, but ignores any problems (such as local wars, food shortages, monopoly on energy ways, the ‘democratic revolutions’ under the control of USA) in the poorer countries. Because there is ‘not enough democratic’ and ‘they do not want to negotiate’, but in fact both sides simply parasitize each other.
18:32:25 <Alberth> you could try a different industry set that ignores snowline in arctic
18:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause> TurkeyTourism: any simple explanation is guaranteed to be wrong
18:32:58 <TurkeyTourism> The EU enjoys a poverty of poor countires for sale cheap low-quality products at a great price, and the purchase of cheap resources. Poor countries trying ‘throw bridges’ with ‘civilization’, even to move there to live. In short, Europe is suffering a national individualism and the inability to create different rules for DIFFERENT people. As a result, these people write their own rules.
18:38:20 <TurkeyTourism> Eddi|zuHause: it is impossible to be both soft and welcoming as Europe today, you will be used by each guest. What is happening today.
18:40:35 <V453000> I dont see much difference between murderous ideologies like nazis or islam
18:41:11 <V453000> neither has a place in modern, safe society
18:42:33 <[Franklin]> is it against the rules to "steal" goods from a factory in multiplayer?
18:43:40 <Taede> thats up to the individual server, however most will have rules against just that yes
18:50:51 <TurkeyTourism> If group of radicals acts by force, it will never negotiate through dialogue. Or just stupid and uncontrolled. All of them are the same: use the fans’ (or church) calls and slogans as ideas, looking for an external enemy, and do not spare it and themselves.
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19:45:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27458 trunk/src/lang/basque.txt (2015-11-26 19:45:10 +0100 )
19:45:20 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:21 <DorpsGek> basque - 20 changes by Thadah
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19:51:10 <TurkeyTourism> [20:10] <TurkeyTourism> Hi, how to change the hight of tree growth for subtropical landscape? I find only option snow_line_height for snow in subartical.
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19:52:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, tropic is hardcoded
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21:15:23 <andythenorth> is there anything on the internet?
21:15:27 <andythenorth> or is the internet over?
21:20:21 <Wolf01> meh, italy going fully stupid again, it's selling 40% of the rail infrastructures to privates, the trenitalia administration just resigned
21:21:43 <__ln__> Wolf01: do the trenitalia ticket vending machines still run OS/2? (or possibly it was eComStation)
21:22:56 <Wolf01> last time i checked they ran windows xp, i assumed it from the blue screen
21:23:16 <Wolf01> but we have a lot of different ticket vending machines so i really don't know
21:25:03 <Wolf01> hey, it's about 2 years i don't take a train :o
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21:47:56 <andythenorth> ‘export food’ is a stupid cargo, no?
21:50:48 <frosch123> just use the WSTE cargo label
21:51:22 <andythenorth> nobody mention the S word please :(
21:51:25 <andythenorth> it’s a boring joke
21:51:28 <frosch123> anyway, you already have food and alcohol
21:51:35 <frosch123> which get mostly delivered to the sam eplaces
21:51:46 <frosch123> so you could as well make food local, and alcohol export
21:51:49 <frosch123> or the other way around
21:52:36 <frosch123> i can think of a H word, but not of a S word
21:53:32 <andythenorth> seafood is a distraction :)
21:53:52 <andythenorth> I just have this african economy, which is short on food production, but exports the fishing catch
21:53:56 <andythenorth> which actually happens
21:54:11 <andythenorth> value of hard currency exports means food is exported
21:54:18 <andythenorth> despite local shortages
21:54:47 <frosch123> let the player make that decision
21:55:15 <frosch123> make ports give useful cargos (supplies) for food
21:55:20 <frosch123> while the other places give you nothing
21:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (was that the S word?)
21:55:55 <frosch123> don't force the player to be evil, just set a trap :p
21:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i frankly have no clue what the S word would be
21:56:28 <frosch123> did you figure out the H word then?
21:57:55 <Eddi|zuHause> is "smørrebrød" actually a word that is used in scandinavian languages?
21:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> or is that just a word a german made up to sound like it's scandinavian? :p
21:58:47 <frosch123> not sure, when i was in norway and told the people it was the only word i knew, they were mildly astonished
21:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> like people nowadays make up words that sound like they're english
22:01:22 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: anyway, i would not use smørebrød in german either
22:01:43 <frosch123> though i believe there are some dialects which use it like sandwich
22:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't use the word either
22:03:38 <frosch123> other people use "uber" all the time :p
22:08:25 <andythenorth> where are my vehicles?
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22:10:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the cat caught them and dragged them away?
22:23:14 <andythenorth> cement plant, what cargo can I substitute for clay?
22:26:41 * andythenorth thinks players will complain about using bauxite or iron ore “unrealistic"
22:28:30 <andythenorth> rice hull ash? o_O
22:30:02 <slaca> guys, when you start a new game, then you generate a random map, or create in the mapeditor?
22:31:41 <frosch123> always hilly or mountainious
22:33:06 <slaca> what I don't like in random map that the rivers always are 1 tile wide, I can make it wider in map editor
22:33:29 <FLHerne> Lots and lots of autogenerated maps until I get one with sensible macroterrain
22:34:09 <frosch123> never bigger than 256x256 per player
22:34:49 <slaca> is there opportunity to make river in newest trunk?
22:34:54 <FLHerne> Terragenesis has an annoying habit of generating maps with a nice grid of pyramidal mountains and squareish small lakes
22:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: call it something different than "cement", if you switch input cargos?
22:35:19 <frosch123> FLHerne: reduce "roughness"
22:35:21 <FLHerne> slaca: Since years ago in 1.2.something?
22:35:23 <Eearslya> I always had a dream of filling a 4096x4096 with transport, but the lag and vehicle limits crushed it
22:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if you make larger map, you should make it sparser (fewer towns, fewer industries)
22:36:26 <slaca> i hate when i destroy a river part accidentally and cant do anything against it
22:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> slaca: you have to either replace it with a canal, or load the game in scenario editor to place the river
22:37:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (might require fiddling with file extensions)
22:37:35 <FLHerne> Oh, building it manually. I'd quite like that too.
22:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be the ability to forbid destroying water...
22:38:38 <andythenorth> probably I just have to mine clay
22:38:52 <slaca> the editor solution looks good, i dont want to replace it with canal, it would look a bit odd :)
22:39:14 <Eearslya> Do concrete and have a rock quarry for gravel
22:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i was serious. define the input cargos depending on what suits the economy, and then decide what to call the output cargo
22:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> slaca: many modern rivers are canalized
22:40:08 <andythenorth> the output is building materials
22:41:17 <andythenorth> I could just use clay, but it’s interesting to look at alternative cargos
22:41:26 <slaca> Eddi: yes they are, but not in the middle of a mountain, where nothing is :)
22:44:30 <slaca> one more question: if i transport only grain from farm, and not animals, than will the farm break off after some years??
22:46:06 * andythenorth looks for gypsum mines
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continue to next day ⏵
