IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-11-21
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00:37:38 <drac_boy> sim-a12 or flygon either of you not asleep over keyboard? heh :)
00:47:14 <drac_boy> marine V8 engine (probably rerated in some way) .. only one lone example was ever made when they had been thinking of making several models in production rate :-s
00:48:45 <drac_boy> the turret-like cab was rather interesting .. better rearview/shunting view than the like of eg EMD FT
00:50:52 <sim-al2> I can't tell if the cab is particularly high or the hood lower than normal
00:51:02 <sim-al2> Seems a little bit of both
00:53:14 <drac_boy> sim-a12 and of course the pre-1960's was an interesting era of locomotives built for specific tasks (instead of being a bit good at everything aka General Purpose heh) ...
00:53:55 <drac_boy> usually found in yard transfer tasks but also a bit of other things alike to that too
00:54:18 <drac_boy> the "little" blue car parked nearby gives you an idea
00:58:11 <drac_boy> heh the BL2 sorta still missed it with the engineer having to get out of seat to see to the left past the high hood .. but it was a honest attempt nevertheless .. still useful for reversing at straight speeds
00:58:47 <drac_boy> probably still would had been turned over to a RS-1 or any SW*** for yard shufflings
01:01:37 <drac_boy> sim-a12 you want know what bnsf was rather a bit unusual for? (I know they probably was not the only one but they were the most photographed one tho!)
01:05:44 <drac_boy> I could give you a name hint if you want ^
01:06:13 <drac_boy> heh you got that right .. only sf/bnsf had them in numbers if photos says anything
01:06:43 <drac_boy> kinda interesting as to why they did that but mm seeing one still being used behind almost modern Dash power is ever more amusing too :)
01:06:56 <sim-al2> First one, not sure, the dynamic brake pod is not like a GP60 and it's not a GE
01:07:09 <sim-al2> Less cabs to maintain
01:07:38 <sim-al2> But can't lead, so a mess if they start mixing power around
01:07:39 <drac_boy> well tbh by the time the gp60 was out the cab was almost no additional value so it was better to order it anyway
01:08:14 <drac_boy> just a little like how MU used to be optional but eventually the problems (plus low cost from mass-use) eventually probably made MU standard on almost everything
01:08:24 <sim-al2> Apparently the dynamic brake resistors lasted a bit longer not being over the engine
01:09:00 <sim-al2> Well just the manfacturing differences kicked in too, since the non-MU governors were different
01:09:02 <drac_boy> oh and for the record .. even the GP9 still could be ordered in unusual ways if the old fashioned railroad wanted it .. heck you could have arch bar trucks *and* non-26L (I forgot the name of the other one) brakestand too
01:09:21 <sim-al2> 24RL, or maybe even a 6
01:09:23 <drac_boy> I think that sort of things all disappeared by the time the GP20 and newer were out
01:09:32 <drac_boy> never really hard of it by then myself anyway
01:09:46 <sim-al2> 26L didn't come out until the 50's or so anyway
01:09:47 <drac_boy> sim-a12..ah yes...the 6 probably
01:10:24 <sim-al2> It's one of the 6 variants, that thing was around for a long time (turn of the century I think)
01:11:14 <drac_boy> sim-a12 and if arch trucks were not unusual to look at in photos .. you sometimes could find a GP9 ordered with a very tiny (read: 3 feet of air gap between the tank and each trucks instead of close-clearance gap) fuel tank if the locomotive in question was ordered for low-range (especially stations) switchign works with limited axle loading
01:12:18 <drac_boy> almost a bit like that PRR 0-6-0 slopedback tender switcher .. it had very low water supply but that didn't matter as the locomotive was built for shunting tasks so it was always very close to a water supply source
01:12:38 <drac_boy> (although the 0-6-0 didn't have any axle loading problem so...heh)
01:13:13 <sim-al2> Must have been some light rail for those
01:13:53 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well a GP9 was a lot heavier than a modest 2-6-2 steam in standard configuration
01:14:03 <sim-al2> Reminds me of the SDL39, 6 axles on something that weighted more like US 4 axles locomotives
01:14:43 <sim-al2> True, but the freight car weights increased a lot during the 1950's and 60's
01:15:36 <drac_boy> sim-a12 heh well some emd rebuilds/variations were interesting .. even to the point of an official (I forgot which generation) numbering for a de-turboed unit (lower maintenance for light duty work which didn't need much hp anyway)
01:15:53 <drac_boy> I know it was somewhere in the GP15-GP40 range .. just forgot exactly where
01:16:24 <drac_boy> btw even the "hi cube" big boxcar still was probably lighter than a SW1200 :)
01:19:45 <drac_boy> sim-a12 about emd .. I still think the GP30 is something for looking a bit different due to needing the extra height to clear the additional electronics+turbo near the front section :)
01:20:05 <drac_boy> I think some people considered it a 1950's-cars-alike fashion and mm I dunno what to think of that
01:21:06 <sim-al2> I think the GP30 needed extra space for the intertia air filtering, as well as a lot more switching electronics ( It had field-weaking!!! )
01:21:26 <drac_boy> well apparently the GP60 didn't need the high roof but thats probably due to modern technology :P
01:22:16 <drac_boy> oh and sim-a12 one thing that was still obvious tho was how dynamic brakes was still optional even up to the SD/GP60 era ... as not all railroads really needed the extra-maintenance separate braking system that offered
01:22:17 <sim-al2> Apparently the GP60 is still the same height
01:23:08 <sim-al2> Canadian National thought that way for a long time, and now lots of there units have been fitted with dynamic brakes: It saves on brake shoes
01:23:32 <drac_boy> still sorta made for interesting photos sometimes tho if you for example saw a train slowly coming downhill in a minor fog of brakesmoke and up front is a GP20 at home with dynamic leading a non-dynamic GP15 borrowed from another railroad
01:23:44 <sim-al2> But yeah, switching units don't really get the chance to use them anyway
01:25:26 <drac_boy> btw some of the 'hot' santa fe diesel freight trains did specifically have dynamic brakes later on .. but even then sometimes it could be disregarded due to it being slow to react (early version probably)
01:26:58 <sim-al2> The older units didn't have particularly high capacity grids, and so offered fairly low effort above the optimal speeds (around 25-30mph)
01:27:16 <drac_boy> heh well these were 50+mph trains so ... guess that makes sense
01:28:23 <drac_boy> sim-a12 unrelated to this but its santa fe again tho .. you know how they usually prefered B-B units (F3, etc instead of E7, etc) due to the frequent grades they had on their main routes?
01:28:25 <sim-al2> Also, fuel conservation wasn't as big a deal then, so power braking might be used to keep slack pulled in the train (especially on the rolling hills)
01:29:18 <sim-al2> Yeah, E's and F's both had 4 traction motors, but of course E's tended to have more power and weight more
01:30:12 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well the Alco PA was actually gusty enough to be able to hold down Chief assignments for many years (the initial test basically had the motors unloading at same time which stalled the train but to everyone's surprise it restarted without assistance and got up to speed quite fast .. and this was for having A1A trucks)
01:30:13 <sim-al2> Which leads to problems with those older, lower capacity traction motors with high speed gearing, such as very high minimum speeds for full power
01:30:33 <drac_boy> that was the only non B-B units santa fe ever allowed
01:31:02 <sim-al2> GE built higher capacity motors than EMD did at pretty much any point, especially the GE 752 traction motor
01:31:27 <drac_boy> interesting ending to the story .. one of the PA was re-engineered by emd but it soon had to be derated due to insufficent cooling and so the project was abandoned after only one A-A set was converted
01:31:35 <sim-al2> Of course GE was an electric company in a way that a GM division never could be
01:31:37 <drac_boy> not sure what eventually happened to the remaining PA fleet after that
01:32:03 <sim-al2> Scrap probably :/ The Alco 244 engine wasn't the most reliable
01:32:15 <drac_boy> then again wasn't it santa fe that gave us the weird BEEP unit which was half geep, half switcher? :P
01:32:28 <drac_boy> I think only one single example again was built then the project got stopped
01:32:38 <sim-al2> the 251 was a lot better, but GM had a lead at that point and never let up
01:33:47 <sim-al2> Yeah, apparently it the 70's and into the 80's it was a lot cheaper tax wise to "rebuild" a locomotive almost totally rather than buy a new one
01:33:56 <sim-al2> And Santa Fe had the shops to do it
01:34:08 <drac_boy> btw the Alco PA was pretty good on some railroads so I guess it partially comes down to personal maintenance differences (this being obvious where when amtrak bought out santa fe's steam-vapour-operated-climate coaches they would fail more often on non-santafe routes, no bleeping surprise there!)
01:35:03 <drac_boy> santa fe was the only one to have these sort of mixed steam&ac heated coaches in big number .. because santa fe's train often ran through many different climates all the times (unlike eg PRR which was a very narrow geography area)
01:35:20 <sim-al2> Santa Fe really was the best track and equipment in its day
01:36:15 <drac_boy> sim-a12 tbh it was actually IC who had very good highspeed tracks for a while till either IC or Amtrak finally reduced the maximum speed allowed (probably amtrak not wanting to have to pay a big premium for the speedup I think tho)
01:36:17 <sim-al2> Yeah, Amtrak converted most of the cars in better condition to 480V power because the steam systems were a mess
01:37:29 <drac_boy> I forgot but I think IC had it initially designed for 100mph or so (which was a bit fast for the F7 units to be doing at with conventional boxcars in tow!)
01:37:45 <sim-al2> Quite a few railroads that had ATS removed it right before Amtrak came in so they wouldn't have to maintain it
01:38:28 <sim-al2> And not having ATS or one of the other safety systems meant under 80 mph speeds
01:38:47 <sim-al2> Yeah, I remember reading about the IC GP40s that could hold 90 with freight
01:39:13 <drac_boy> also I forgot if it was related to IC or was a different railroad but there was one that had really-fast-freights partially thanks to advanced signals (eg the first signal could tell you what to expect at the second signal and I don't mean a single orange aspect) .. but when the old signals were replaced with a more basic (aka just simply green/orange/red 3-aspect) the track speed had to be cut back to just 79mph
01:39:32 <drac_boy> this was pre-ats anyhow
01:39:38 <sim-al2> I don't know that 90+ is particulary safe when plain bearings were still around...
01:40:30 <sim-al2> Hmm, quite a few railroads have multiple aspect signals, that was meant to save on fuel and brake costs
01:40:31 <drac_boy> well a lot of the IC express freights had relatively new wagons to match the new demand (especially special yellow banana cars too)
01:40:41 <drac_boy> so I imagine they were roller bearing by then
01:41:05 <sim-al2> Probably, I think plain bearings on interchange were banned by the 80's anyway
01:41:24 <sim-al2> Hence why cabooses disappeared soon after
01:42:20 <drac_boy> btw the piggyback trailers were also relatively new .. that explains why santa fe had no problem using "hot" 70mph GP60's heh :)
01:43:16 <drac_boy> they did sometimes pack a lot of power on these few hotshot trains just because they wanted to .. and this was during very low diesel fuel prices too (can you imagine four recent geep units with less than twenty wagons?)
01:43:40 <sim-al2> You know, I've never understood why ATS or some similar system was never required, I mean PRR cab signals came around after the government required all the major railroads to build an advanced safety system
01:43:58 <drac_boy> admittly because it was a scheduled service it always had to run even if that meant it was just a single EMD F7 with one lone piggyback wagon and no caboose!
01:44:06 <drac_boy> quirky if you ask me ^
01:44:41 <sim-al2> Yeah, the hotshot freights were neat, but didn't last too long
01:45:55 <drac_boy> sim-a12 on the opposite side (re non-hot freights) there was one interesting thing that did capture some photographers....
01:47:07 <drac_boy> BN was just starting to kick out the carbody diesels with the ever-incoming orders of various GP units .. but then there was a bit of a coal boom and suddenly BN wasn't only halting any scraps/sales but even buying back various units cheap from other railroads .. cue finding a mixed freight train doing just 35mph with like *eight* mismashed F units powering it
01:47:38 <drac_boy> eventually BN could get enough new geep units around to slowly start retiring the carbody units a second time around
01:48:03 <drac_boy> but heh yeah .. think about that .. eight F units where the same train later on could be just 3 or 4 GP units :->
01:48:49 <sim-al2> Hmm, sounds like those units might have been a bit abused to death by that point
01:49:31 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well the F units were like I think 800-1500hp each while the GP started at like 1500hp but went up quickly
01:50:10 <sim-al2> FT was 1350hp, F7 1500hp, F9 1750hp
01:50:21 <sim-al2> GP7 was 1500hp, GP9 1750hp
01:50:35 <drac_boy> sim-a12 and don't forget low turbo rating or very worn pistons .. so thats why I guessed at 800hp
01:50:51 <sim-al2> No turbos until the the GP20*
01:51:23 <drac_boy> actually .. the F7 pretty much did have Roots
01:51:25 <sim-al2> Although a worn engine and cut-out traction motors would definetly take a toll
01:51:33 <sim-al2> That's a supercharger
01:51:55 <drac_boy> oh .. well whatever I mean you probably get what I mean re low or no boost right?
01:52:20 <sim-al2> Crankshaft driver, as opposed to the hybrid exhaust drive unit that EMD developed for the GP20 and later
01:52:53 <sim-al2> Eh a 2 stroke diesel needs a source of positive pressure for effective exhaust scavenging
01:53:05 <drac_boy> btw that reminds me .. there were actually a few (specifically ordered for passenger work) units that only had one engine instead of two for traction purpose .. not sure I recall why
01:53:14 <sim-al2> And a simple supercharger will do it well and reliably
01:53:40 <sim-al2> Some E's had baggage compartments in the place of the 2nd engine
01:54:29 <drac_boy> there was also that strange F unit that looked like a B not A unit except it did have a full-featured flat-front cab so it sorta was the shape of a B unit but could be treated as an A unit .. reasoning as I recall was so the train could start as a streamlined A-B set but later break the train into two and let the "B" unit power away on a separate route by itself
01:54:34 <sim-al2> *UP had some experiemental turbo-charged GP9s for the high altitude mainlines where the regular ones were not doing so well
01:54:39 <drac_boy> wish I could recall which railroad that one odd unit was on
01:55:28 <drac_boy> doh...that is so much it . yep .. strange thing eh? :)
01:55:50 <drac_boy> mm two of them built? interesting
01:55:54 <sim-al2> Got to keep the streamlined look :)
01:56:14 <drac_boy> well thats what I said no? streamlined A-B ;)
01:57:11 <drac_boy> btw I believe it was also Rock that bought cheaply these then-unwanted "Aerotrain" thinking they could stuff them into commuter service .. but of course the poor little engine wasn't up to the task of frequent stop-n-go among other plausible problems with such change of duty
01:57:20 <sim-al2> The EMD turbo charger actually has a gear train that allows it to be engine driven for lower engine power outputs, and then speed up to behave like a regular turbo once the exhaust flow is high enough
01:57:39 <drac_boy> Rock always did have a few quirky things going for their railroad :)
01:58:15 <drac_boy> too bad that their "modern" light blue (with white font) paint on new diesels was not long lived when the entire network decleared bankrupt due to gov-inflicted cost spirals
01:58:39 <drac_boy> and of course soon the whole PRR+NH (aka PC) soon fell down hard too
01:58:59 <sim-al2> Yeah, the whole regulated cost structure for railroads and unregulated cost structure for trucks was kinda stupid in hindsight
02:00:06 <sim-al2> Yeah, PC's death spiral nearly messed up the whole east coast
02:00:54 <drac_boy> ah.. the TA I almost forgot that little thing :)
02:01:54 <sim-al2> Best part about the Aerotrain was that the locomotive was basically an SW1200
02:01:59 <drac_boy> sim-a12 I do know that the TA was not the only 'small' thing tho .. one sec...
02:05:38 <drac_boy> one of the set was only ordered with a forward power unit so the tail sometimes rode a bit hard .. the other set had power at both end but (bad luck) one of them caught fire on its press train and sure enough soon fizzled out from the timetables after only a short time
02:05:50 <sim-al2> Jeez the Erie unit to the right looks like an Australian locomotive, GM's paint designers recycled designs :)
02:07:03 <drac_boy> seem like just one axle per car
02:07:59 <sim-al2> Many Talgo cars have passive tilting mechanisms
02:08:26 <sim-al2> Apparently these units for NH had steps DOWN into the car
02:08:30 <drac_boy> sim-a12 also would you believe that even Budd joined the lightweight craze themself too .. by simply taking the RDC-1 and redress one end with a different nose cab style? ;)
02:09:10 <sim-al2> Yeah, I wish something a bit more substantial had remained from that era...
02:09:17 <drac_boy> torch the nose off and put flat panels back on and you got a RDC-1 again (sorta)
02:10:12 <sim-al2> There's still RDCs out there needing rebuilds
02:10:28 <sim-al2> Apparently this one still exists in a museum
02:11:57 <drac_boy> sim-a12 the funny thing is that some railroads really *love* the rdc even if its very expensive to completely gut and rebuild it (after all this results in fresh seat cloth and fresh axle bearings for example) .. part of the problem is because the rdc was sorta pre-fra and your modern fra would never allow a new one on the basis of safety and other things
02:12:32 <drac_boy> even that particular colorado bilevel dmu had some things like a bigger crash-buffer zone in front of the cab etc just to be able to let fra sign off on it
02:12:33 <sim-al2> Ehh, it comes close to modern standards and the body is super durable
02:12:48 <sim-al2> The cab might be a bit unsafe though
02:13:14 <drac_boy> that is why .. mainly the flat cab right on front
02:13:26 <sim-al2> The Colorado cars have other problems
02:13:26 <drac_boy> the colorado units had a van-like (roadwise) nose for that reason
02:13:53 <sim-al2> I assume they wanted aerodynamics more, some cars have flat ends
02:13:57 <drac_boy> but yeah I was just quipping why a new rdc can't just be built as-is partially in name of FRA
02:14:19 <drac_boy> btw flat end is only a problem if you want to do 90mph for a long time :)
02:14:31 <drac_boy> even then the budd rdc gearing could be crazy with both engines operating :P
02:14:32 <sim-al2> Would you build an F7 and try to sell it today?
02:15:23 <sim-al2> RDC had two engines mainly as there wasn't the powerful engines we have today
02:15:43 <drac_boy> btw the Danish IC3 is an interesting quirk .. its caved inward .. yet they are supposed to be able to run at 180km/h!
02:15:54 <drac_boy> it just shows that sometimes streamlining isn't considered
02:16:16 <sim-al2> Each one only put out 275hp, and yet the RDC was faster and more powerful than most other countries DMUs for decades
02:16:55 <sim-al2> IC3 is short distance though, they valued easy walkthrough over long distance efficiency
02:17:04 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well many of the rebuilt ones had newer (especially some being cummins) engine so you could eventually be looking at 2*600hp (subtracting the non-traction electrical loads)
02:17:41 <drac_boy> sometimes this wasn't for speed but just for being able to still source new repair parts (so yep even the 2*600hp unit still only run at a lazy 40kph all the time)
02:17:51 <sim-al2> Do they have two engines? That seems rather unncessary if you can drop a single 600hp engine in
02:18:21 <drac_boy> well sim-a12 I believe its due to the drivetrain .. the hydraulic would be a bit complicated to try redo for 1-engine-2-trucks repower
02:18:26 <sim-al2> 40kph would be bad track
02:18:51 <sim-al2> VIA still runs them out west right?
02:19:02 <drac_boy> sim-a12 .. well thats the thing .. the rdc was often used on low traffic line (and even then theres also one special case in canada where *no* road service exists at all!)
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02:19:39 <drac_boy> and low traffic means low budget so rails probably would only be fixed enough to safely keep fra from relabelling it as exempted (aka no passengers and only 5-10kph max freights)
02:20:10 <drac_boy> hmm .. was it 'exempted' or 'class 1'? I forgot .. will have to find a source and check
02:20:35 <drac_boy> you get the idea tho
02:20:47 <sim-al2> FRA doesn't allow passenger operations on exempted track, class 1 might be around 10mph
02:23:20 <drac_boy> ah .. probably as they are only running on their own so one truck having no power didn't matter
02:24:08 <drac_boy> mind you even budd themself did have a particular rdc-* classification that included baggage space with only one engine installed ... likely due to being paired with a twin-power unit anyway
02:25:47 <sim-al2> the 9 has no cabs and one engine
02:25:59 <drac_boy> RDC-9 one engine all-coach .. RDC-4 twin-engine no-seat baggage
02:26:18 <drac_boy> most people often think of the RDC-1 which isn't a surprise tho (the all-seat version)
02:26:33 <drac_boy> I still wonder where -5 through -8 went to .. internal affairs maybe
02:27:42 <sim-al2> I think they came up with the 9 when they realized that some railroads were towing around regular cars, and were worried about the transmissions overheating
02:28:16 <drac_boy> sim-a12 but anyway .. I dunno where I found this (and why do I still remember this??) but B&O had one budd rdc that ran a route of 300+ miles in scheduled service .. bit crazy to run just a single lone unit over a very spread out low loading
02:28:45 <drac_boy> I suspect B&O really did it just to promise connecting service rather than as an actual schedule on its own
02:29:24 <sim-al2> The ICC didn't let the railroads drop passenger services to places that would otherwise be left without any very easily
02:29:54 <drac_boy> maybe .. this was in the 1950's or slight earlier as I recall anyhow
02:30:13 <sim-al2> Apparently the Southern Pacific got into trouble several times for discontinuing service illegally and making their services worse and worse
02:30:27 <drac_boy> sim-a12 oh and did you know that SF actually ordered two (or at least two anyway) rdc's but they overturned themself at high speed on a curve so soon they got banned from ever working
02:32:58 <drac_boy> btw trying to find the accident now here one sec
02:33:03 <sim-al2> Hmm I now remember reading about the Santa Fe thing; weird thing is looking at a BC rail timetable the RDCs were allowed fairly high speeds in places
02:34:23 <drac_boy> SF probably wisely sticked to a F unit with one or two conventional coaches afterward I think I'm guessing
02:35:04 <sim-al2> I think the San Diegans were usually longer, certainly under Amtrak they have always been several cars
02:35:17 <sim-al2> Now bilevels as the Surfliner
02:35:44 <drac_boy> sim-a12 btw what do you think should haul a budd bilevel commuter car? :)
02:36:26 <drac_boy> C&NW actually ordered the early generation one (likely with steam lines) and used them behind eldry 4-6-0's etc for some time (before the yellow F/E units came to being at all)
02:36:58 <drac_boy> these engines didn't have a problem even with five such coaches behind the tender (and sometimes standard heavyweights mixed in on the tail too)
02:37:27 <drac_boy> they were the only railroad to really have steam-hauled bilevels if I recall :)
02:37:31 <sim-al2> Heh, bilevel steamers
02:37:56 <sim-al2> Hmmm, French had some early carriages with seating on top, although not exactly a bilevel per say
02:38:32 <drac_boy> sim-a12 also did you know that the GS-1 steam locomotives finished their duty doing commuter services on SP? (especially with many of the Harrison coaches in the mix too)
02:38:44 <drac_boy> fancy finish for what was a well made fleet
02:39:09 <drac_boy> it made sense anyhow considering that the diesels were bumping the GS-1 off the mainline after all .. and they were "free" to be reused for commuter service
02:39:13 <sim-al2> Not the most glamorous finish, but fitting in a way
02:40:25 <drac_boy> sim-a12 one reason why was due to the way steam worked .. they could do stop-go-stop-go better than a diesel would (even the fresh new GP9 couldn't replace them for a while even after some trials, eventually reassigned to non-rush slots which was a bit slower instead)
02:41:13 <sim-al2> Steam engine was signifcantly worse starting tractive effort than a diesel of the same weight
02:41:20 <Flygon> I'm giggling like a raw idiot. Subbing a piece to an art site, actually get to name it ??????
02:41:21 <sim-al2> Or even weight on drivers
02:41:29 <Flygon> (Dragonair Airline's actual name)
02:41:51 <drac_boy> weird thing is the same problem happened with some station shunters .. the diesels sometimes couldn't even keep up (especially with lacking drop-kick capacity)
02:42:13 <sim-al2> Not to mention all the EMDs that were in commuter service around New York until the early 2000's
02:43:17 <sim-al2> So a express steam locomotive could be faster than a diesel of half the horsepower given enough distance, but it costs more than twice as much to run
02:44:35 <sim-al2> The Brits purged commuter steam locomotives long before the expresses
02:44:48 <drac_boy> you're assuming that because you forgot that the diesel can't hold energy to jump with .. while the boiler can
02:44:53 <sim-al2> Even the tank locomotives that could run both directions
02:45:23 <drac_boy> it did .. as both SP and various station shunter railroads did
02:45:55 <sim-al2> That's not how physics work
02:46:24 <sim-al2> The power output is still limited to the firebox's capacity to keep boiler pressure up
02:46:41 <sim-al2> And the propensity for the drivers to slip
02:46:44 <drac_boy> sim-a12 then how come the diesel can't keep its engine at full rpm all the times as to be able to get full load right from the start?
02:46:58 <sim-al2> It can, see the EMD F40PH
02:47:25 <sim-al2> The only reason they don't is part longevity and part noise
02:47:27 <drac_boy> that was due to the "howling" generator
02:47:38 <drac_boy> they later had a separate small unit to keep the generator running
02:48:16 <sim-al2> Ok, the engine still ran at 900 rpm and power controlled solely by alternator excitation
02:49:08 <sim-al2> Some EMD switchers had a special running mode where the engine ran at constant speed and load was by excitation control only, apparently those loaded very very fast
02:49:09 <drac_boy> yeah fair enough but GP9, SW1200, etc all were basically with very little ampre being ready when standing there waiting for the signal
02:49:46 <sim-al2> You know the amperage is limited at low speeds to not slip the wheels excessively, right?
02:50:18 <sim-al2> Those engines took only a few seconds to load, full power avaliable from around 10mph
02:50:29 <drac_boy> btw I always did wonder if the F40PH design had been meant when trains were shorter .. I dunno tbh .. it was always funny that they were loud howlers in stations due to the main engine still having to keep the generator running
02:51:13 <sim-al2> It was necessary to produce 480v Three Phase power with the main engine
02:52:01 <sim-al2> They could produce enough power to haul a consist of 10+ Superliners, although traction power started to get low at that point
02:52:28 <drac_boy> heh well the F7 had HEP capacity as well but noone seem to have written about them being noisy .. or maybe they didn't realize it at that time?
02:52:31 <drac_boy> what you think anyway?
02:53:24 <sim-al2> F7 HEP was a mod only done by a few companies, they usually shoved a small truck-class engine in place of where the steam generator would go
02:53:46 <sim-al2> Usually not a very high output
02:55:08 <sim-al2> noise regulations here were not very tight either, see the EMD export units to the UK and Australia that have visibly large humps for mufflers
02:57:28 <sim-al2> One more thing, the large drivers and the connecting rods have a very high angular momentum compared to traction motors
03:00:06 <drac_boy> sim-a12 btw one other thing about F units now that I recall it (especially from canada angle) ...
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03:01:03 <drac_boy> the reason you might see eg F3 A-B or A-B-A (even although it could had been A or A-A in both cases) because at the time the steam boiler in cab units were a bit weak while the B body had more space for slight better ones
03:01:21 <drac_boy> I forgot when the transition was but I think it was either the F7 or F9 that had improved A unit steamheat capacity
03:01:24 <[Franklin]> is it possible to work as a dev entirely in git?
03:01:51 <[Franklin]> or will I have to re-learn my version control to work on openttd?
03:02:11 <sim-al2> The A's also had small water capacity, the FP7/FP9 had extended body length for more water
03:02:26 <drac_boy> then again having a F3 leading a boiler-equipped-too- GP7 also was done in usa too not surprisingly
03:02:48 <drac_boy> ah..yeah water too...
03:03:21 <sim-al2> Might need some extra for Canada :p
03:03:29 <drac_boy> sim-a12 silly guessing game for you...
03:03:50 <drac_boy> whats even longer than a FP9 itself? while still using the same numeric? ;)
03:04:09 <sim-al2> FL9, aka the ghetto third rail diesel
03:04:41 <drac_boy> heh right .. also it had B-A1A to saddle the extra weight of transformer and/or boiler with too as I recall
03:05:03 <drac_boy> and there was the eventual rebuild of FL9AC but I got no clue what anyone thought of these in service tho
03:05:14 <sim-al2> Boiler probably, DC third rail only, apparently the viaducts had mean weight limits
03:06:03 <sim-al2> I haven't seen any good reports about the ACs, they disappeared quickly and were scrapped for the valuable parts that could be recovered
03:06:29 <Flygon> [Franklin]: There is interested people hre, but I don't know if they're awake atm
03:06:41 <drac_boy> well before they finally rusted away I recall that due to the 1970's style low maintenance a lot of the FL9's "lost" their 3rd rail shoes to the point that even sometimes they would still run into Grand Terminal etc under full diesel power even although this was technically supposed to be banned!
03:06:58 <drac_boy> talk about treating a FL9 as an almost-FP9 unit :)
03:07:52 <sim-al2> Yeah, New York seems to have bad luck with the dual mode diesels, only the P32 is any good at it
03:08:23 <sim-al2> FL9's system was not reliable, a DM30AC actually burned out due to a short caused by a shopping cart
03:08:48 <sim-al2> P32AC-DM, Amtrak and Metro-North have them
03:09:42 <drac_boy> ohhh the genesis units .. hrm I see
03:09:54 <sim-al2> The third Genesis variant, same body as the P40/P42 but with AC traction and a 12 cylinder engine
03:09:54 <drac_boy> say that photo of them reminds me of something perhaps similar . one sec...
03:10:15 <sim-al2> Also they have an inverter HEP system, so the engine doesn't have to run at a constant speed
03:11:59 <drac_boy> yep .. I thought LIRR had something and they do .. but from emd instead .. I remember reading a story about the initial batch of them ... one of the many problems crew found with them was a silly one: their horn was TOO LOUD
03:13:07 <drac_boy> who would had thought you could make a horn too loud tho? still makes me wonder sometimes
03:13:07 <sim-al2> They seem to run ok now, but were quite a mess at introduction
03:14:03 <sim-al2> Apparantly the FL9AC and the DE/DM have similar traction equipment
03:14:27 <drac_boy> sim-a12 btw unrelated as always but I remember a 'classic trains day' kind of article from LIRR ....
03:15:52 <drac_boy> it was of a platform conductor (forgot exact job name) during the 1950-1960's era and he actually mullied about not knowing much about different locomotives but did find in general that the frequently-alco diesel locomotives and various 3rd rail electric coaches often had lot of problem with winter especially unplowed routes while steam (which was often taken from PRR sheds so it would be the like of K4, etc) always soldered
03:16:47 <drac_boy> I probably could maybe believe his viewpoint there given the technology conditions that existed in the early 1950's
03:17:31 <sim-al2> Probably, the crews knew how to keep the steam engines running, and not so much about the engines
03:18:32 <sim-al2> 3rd rail can also get iced up and cause arcing/brief power losses
03:19:26 <drac_boy> thats why some above-ground 3rd rail trains actually had under-contact shoes as this was a bit more immune to buildups (assuming the shoes were not riding too low to the ground in first place)
03:19:42 <drac_boy> I forgot if this was just specific to some europe areas or usa even tried it too
03:20:03 <sim-al2> Yeah, around New York on Metro-North that have under running
03:20:20 <sim-al2> And sometimes boards above the rails to try to keep snow off
03:21:35 <drac_boy> sim-a12 again another half-related topic .. can you name where they run commuter 3rd rail trains with special sideway-triggered trackside automatic brakes?
03:22:20 <sim-al2> As in the trip-cock emergency valves or something else?
03:24:31 <sim-al2> Hmm, I guess they would need that for extra clearence, must be a nightmare to get mechanical stops to work with those 3rd rail shoes sticking out
03:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> [Franklin]: yes, there is a git mirror you can use for all your personal development needs
03:27:32 <drac_boy> not sure what their timeline was but eventually these would be all gone (I still wonder if that means the classic ET167 etc wouldn't be able to run as-is? no clue tbh)
03:27:53 <drac_boy> the newer trains don't use the old tripcock system as I recall
03:28:03 <drac_boy> might be wrong from memory tho on that ^
03:30:20 <drac_boy> heh actually geeze .. that reminds me of a rather strange yet real photo I found from one of these train .. hang on
03:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i think in Berlin they refit new tracks with some version of ETCS, so the old trains can't use them. new trains support both the mechanical and the ETCS way of security braking
03:33:46 <drac_boy> even me I wouldn't even care if I was standing near the door and a pony suddenly walked in either :)
03:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the museum vehicles will need refitting to ETCS at some point
03:34:13 <drac_boy> eddi..ah thanks for explaining that, cheers
03:35:10 <sim-al2> I like how the passengers barely look
03:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> they need some special exception permission for using the mechanical brakes
03:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause> as it's not used on any other part of the rail network
03:35:58 <drac_boy> sim-a12 like I said "if its not something causing danger then why bother" mentality :)
03:36:03 <Eddi|zuHause> this is about the S-Bahn, it works differently on the U-Bahn
03:36:41 <sim-al2> Some of the Tokyo private railways used to allow merchants to use one of the cars for transporting their stuff, but those were either bales of stuff or a cart
03:36:54 <sim-al2> Not, you know, animals
03:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the pony might need a ticket
03:38:10 <drac_boy> sim-a12 you should see the few people that actually loaded their horse (both 1 and 2 of them) right into the back of their pickup (which could be anything even a 4-inline diesel single-cab Datsun Truck) like they didn't care for it at all
03:38:25 <drac_boy> most people usually expect a trailer
03:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i think in our local network there's a rule about animals need a ticket if they are not carried in a box
03:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and if they are in a box, the size-of-carry-on rule decides whether it needs a ticket
03:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, 90% of animals carried in public transport are dogs...
03:50:41 <drac_boy> I've seen the infrequent ferrets too (for OC Transpo in ottawa) personally
03:54:22 <drac_boy> anyway going off for now so have fun sim-a12? and maybe we'll find yet more new topics to keep talking about next time ok :P
03:55:10 <Flygon> Ah! sim, I was suppose to talk to you about something
03:55:25 * drac_boy throws an aussie pan at flygon before running off :P
03:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i just looked it up, and the exact wording is "dogs must be kept on a short leash, other animals must be kept in a suitible container", so a pony might not be completely legal
03:58:41 <Flygon> Here, people've pushed the law before
03:59:00 <Flygon> A guy here got on the news for literally dressing a goat up and paying for it's myki ticket to ride around the Tram network
03:59:09 <Flygon> Yarra Trams didn't even bother booting him off
04:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm fairly sure you're not getting in a lot of trouble as long as the animal behaves itself, and is not significantly bigger than a large dog
04:02:21 <Flygon> I do note, DOGS aren't allowed on here unless they're guide Dogs
04:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the rules aren't nearly that strict here.
04:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> although guide dogs generally travel for free
04:35:00 * Mazur is merely begging for reactions.
04:37:01 <Mazur> Everyone gone to bed... *weep*
04:37:37 <Flygon> Mazur: Needs more Shining Force
04:38:15 * Mazur does not know what Shining Force means.
04:38:27 <Flygon> You asked for reactions!
04:38:48 <Mazur> Yes, I did, and I reacted to your reaction.
04:40:43 <Mazur> What it actually might need, is a picture of Terry Pratchett overlaid on it, if it does not spoil the grid.
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13:46:42 <Mazur> This looks interesting. Anyone know where the newgrf can be found?
13:53:52 <Alberth> could have a look in bananas, otherwise, probably not
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14:10:11 <Mazur> Hey, I got no Bananas, I got no Bananas, to day.
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14:19:45 * Mazur feels quite overwhelmed by all the praise and admiration.
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14:22:53 <Alberth> andy leaves quite often at random times :)
14:23:33 <Alberth> but euhm, not sure what to make of your work, the prtrait is perhaps a bit too invisible?
14:23:41 <Mazur> Just to avoid my previous utterance.
14:24:03 <Alberth> the channel is logged :p
14:24:44 <Mazur> Alberth: it is a playing board for Thud, hence the barely visible portrait, it's only to refer to/remind of Pratchett.
14:25:00 <Mazur> The dquares are the important bit.
14:26:34 <_dp_> Mazur, that grf is called either novapolis or luukland special event
14:27:32 <Mazur> Yes, been looking everywhere for it, but caan;t seem to find it. Not in Bananas, not in Crawler.
14:27:48 <Mazur> Hoped one of you might have an inkling.
14:27:49 <_dp_> it is on bananas, search for "specail event"
14:30:53 <_dp_> hm, doesn't seem to show up if you search ingame though...
14:40:01 <Alberth> could be limited to some specific game version
14:40:13 <Mazur> Ha! Figured how to countereffect the fading of the board itself due to making the top layer (the board) somewhat opaque to reveal the image shining through. Add another, fully opaque, underneath, as well.
14:41:21 <Mazur> Yes, I know, possibly only on Luukland/Novapolis/Citymania binaries.
14:41:44 <Mazur> Can't hurt to try,though.
14:41:57 <Alberth> they couldn't use normal clients?
14:42:37 <Alberth> what I meant is that the newgrf may be limited to eg 1.3 only
14:42:47 <_dp_> it works fine with current version
14:42:59 <Mazur> Well, hteyn used it end of 2014...
14:43:06 <_dp_> and citymania client is compatible with vanila openttd
14:43:27 <Alberth> no idea why it doesn't show in-game then
14:44:00 <_dp_> mb it's somehow not marked as compatible on bananas?
14:44:31 <Mazur> Newer version, with more Pterry, as well.
14:44:35 <andythenorth> does this give me % loaded for a vehicle? o_O var[0x61, 0, 0x0000FFFF, 0xBC]*100/var[0x61, 0, 0x0000FFFF, 0xBA]
14:45:50 <Alberth> load * 100 / max_load will
14:46:04 <Alberth> ie load = max_load gives 100
14:46:38 <Mazur> Alberth: I like how I found oug how to cut alternating squares from a single image of a wood surface, and combine two of those for the board.
14:46:41 <Alberth> but I don't know all the magic numbers between []
14:47:26 <Alberth> Mazur: there's fascinating puzzles everywhere :)
14:48:41 <Mazur> Yes, but for where I'm coming from, this is high computer art. And I followed through.
14:49:32 <Alberth> there is no section about "var" in the manual?
14:50:09 <andythenorth> I am too lazy too look them up :)
14:50:14 <andythenorth> it _appears_ to work :)
14:50:35 <Alberth> I wonder what the comma means, tbh
14:50:57 <andythenorth> it’s probably var, shift, mask at a guess
14:50:58 <Alberth> maybe it's a grf primitive
14:51:01 <andythenorth> it’s all in the nml docs :)
14:51:10 <andythenorth> I even have them open, somewhere, in a tab :P
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15:23:30 <drac_boy> eddi you any chance still awake? ;) heh
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15:43:25 <andythenorth> shame more people don’t make GS
15:43:35 <andythenorth> or at least, non-City-Growth GS
15:46:45 <Flygon> I'd love if Gamescripts could found towns
15:51:58 <drac_boy> heh hows you anyway?
15:53:50 <drac_boy> and flygon you want see an interesting one-time experimental emu with a nice sculptured nose?
15:54:35 <Flygon> I'm watching Red Dwarf atm tho xP
15:57:10 <drac_boy> I got to say the test unit looks a bit ... different :)
15:57:41 <drac_boy> its not often you'll find a cone-nose dual-end unit (instead of a more flat body style)
16:00:06 <Flygon> Only thing I really know the Pendos for is their utter initial failure in Finrand
16:03:46 <drac_boy> flygon heh well actually the swiss people eventually stopped scheduling the ETR 470 anymore .. even although italy (or at least a neighbouring country I forgot which one) was still running the same sets on their own routes next to the border
16:04:04 <Flygon> Finland DOES still run the Pendos
16:04:11 <Flygon> They've just had the hell modified out of them
16:05:13 <drac_boy> flygon btw it appears pendo built the ICE T for germany ..
16:05:39 <drac_boy> wiki seem to only mention some axle crack faults but not much else so I dunno if they somehow are reliable or not
16:06:09 <drac_boy> btw did finland use a lot of bailing wires and liberal amount of tape+putter?
16:06:59 <Flygon> I'd argue that axle cracks are a general indicator
16:07:14 <Flygon> Finland prolly did what Victoria did with the Siemens
16:07:21 <Flygon> Rip their guts out and put new ones in
16:10:00 <drac_boy> ah metro emu...mm I see
16:11:12 <oskari89> Actually, the things that were/are problematic with Finnish Sm3/Pendolino, are: Tilting system, as it was/is still poorly shielded against snow and ice, amongst other failures in that system, batteries and the couplings
16:11:54 <oskari89> Last two are already done, first one is still in progress afaik
16:13:14 <drac_boy> flygon there is also that long-overdue and still-very-troublesome (last I saw an article about it in europe magazine a few months ago anyhow) IC4 sets built by ansaldo and some of these "re-built again" by bombardier and I think another unrelated company too
16:14:42 <drac_boy> flygon yeah .. theres still a lot of court proceedings going on especially over refusing to pay for trains at least once and one time an agreement to basically build n train at n/2 price (aka half of it for free)
16:15:18 <drac_boy> I'm still wondering when it will finally come to an end considering the IC4 was *supposed* to have been running by 2004
16:15:41 <drac_boy> (I don't mean just the first train .. the order was supposed to be all completed by then)
16:16:12 <drac_boy> sure does make you wonder about it with big eyes doesn't it flygon
16:16:45 <Flygon> Mate, I've seen enough ridiculousness to kinda grownumb
16:16:46 <drac_boy> oskari umm it looks like someone's ass pointing at you? (no offence meant btw)
16:17:03 <drac_boy> flygon np..just had to be sure
16:19:18 <drac_boy> flygon also hmm I forgot the name but I recall there were some dmu or emu set (small one...2-5 cars each I believe) that worked well...if you did not try couple them together (buggered MU computer system apparently) .. eventually they *could* MU only if a dedicated locomotive was hauling them
16:19:32 <drac_boy> was probably 2014 or late 2013 anyhow ^
16:19:59 <oskari89> Which did look good, but didn't work at winter conditions
16:20:03 <drac_boy> oskari well at least that looks better with the cover on
16:21:31 <drac_boy> oh yeah flygon btw I kinda forgot to save the link but you mind posting the name of that tiny little 20kph (I believe thats what you mentioned?) shunter from australia?
16:22:53 <drac_boy> well it was blue with angled hood? :)
16:22:54 <Flygon> Or the one that went a bit faster than the Railtractor?
16:23:00 <Flygon> Okay not the railtractor
16:23:25 <drac_boy> we were talking about the Y and N locomotives then you mentioned that tiny 20kph one just shortly before I left
16:24:04 <Flygon> I'm about to sleep, tbh
16:25:44 <drac_boy> ah heh yep...little bug :)
16:26:00 <drac_boy> flygon btw you want know what that reminded me of again when I saw it yesterday? :P
16:26:15 <Flygon> A 1px wide loco in OpenTTD?
16:27:31 <drac_boy> NS Class 200 aka the "Sik"
16:27:40 <Alberth> 1km/h train is useless in openttd
16:28:10 <drac_boy> the large space behind cab is where the crane would had gone if it was fitted btw
16:28:26 <drac_boy> these thing didn't even have airbrake
16:29:16 <Flygon> Alberth: It can go 16km/h
16:29:26 <Flygon> Just limited to 1km/h while going through the washing machine
16:29:31 <Alberth> like that is more useful :p
16:29:41 <Flygon> drac_boy: British as hell it looks
16:30:49 <drac_boy> flygon well the man who ran the builder company also ran Fokker Aerospace too .. so I wouldn't be surprised if he had been britian born
16:31:12 <drac_boy> bye flygon, have fun sleeping till next time ;)
16:32:20 <drac_boy> oskari what you think of the Dv16 anyway? (seeing you must like VR trains)
16:34:35 <oskari89> Dv16? Hadn't had seen those in their daily use. I have seen them in museum trains
16:35:22 <drac_boy> heh well a 'train' of a few of them was seen last year ... but theres still a few being maintained tho
16:35:37 <drac_boy> they seem to be still going .. even as the number dwindles
16:35:59 <oskari89> Two are actually alive yet
16:37:09 <drac_boy> the dv12 on the other hand...seem to be all over the place :P
16:37:41 <oskari89> I think the most intresting one is Dr18, of the Fenniarail :)
16:37:54 <drac_boy> fenniarail? hmm let me see
16:38:09 <oskari89> First finnish private operator
16:40:00 <drac_boy> ah that almost looks like the vossloh diesel-hydraulic locomotive they showed at the yearly rail expo one or two years ago
16:40:34 <oskari89> That is based on CME3, fully modernized by CZ Loko
16:41:40 <drac_boy> cme3? uhh let me guess, russia?
16:42:09 <drac_boy> figured, I've became a little bit familiar with the russia naming system
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16:44:08 <drac_boy> theres always the 2T** series too .. especially the green one with old 2-stroke engines .. these seem to love black exhaust cloud all the times :)
16:44:53 <drac_boy> and heh there is always an Alco RSD in russia too (american locomotive in russia eh?)
16:44:58 <oskari89> Dr18 is 744.7f subversion of 744.7
16:50:03 <drac_boy> for usa I only know of one or two american (wild west dated) 4-4-0 that are still wood fired but everything else is only coal or the small number of oil
16:50:21 <oskari89> Yes there is, few operators
16:51:54 <drac_boy> of course I also recall at least two short movies that used wood fired steam locomotives as part of the slapstick .. go figure with that
16:53:09 <drac_boy> one of them .. well .. believe this .. the man toss various pieces into firebox .. he stops at one piece and look at it and see it has large knots in it .. he shrugs thinking its no good for the fire .. throws it right out of the cab without looking .. and it KO's an operator who was waiting to hand him a revised meet order
16:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <drac_boy> eddi you any chance still awake? ;) heh <-- highlighting works way better when you use my actual name...
16:53:27 <drac_boy> you can probably guess what happened soon anyway :)
16:54:38 <__ln___> you have a highlight for Johannes?
16:57:08 <oskari89> Dr18 is intresting locomotive, because Co'Co and AC/DC transmission (DC traction motors)
16:58:23 <oskari89> Last time DC transmission and Co'Co' arrangement was used in Finland, was Dr12 in the 1950's/1960's
16:58:42 <drac_boy> oskari...umm why is there no train for that cz 774 unit? ;)
16:59:10 <sim-al2> DC generators started to disappear around the 1960's to 1970's
16:59:10 <oskari89> They are on testing phase :P
16:59:23 <sim-al2> In favor of alternators with rectification
16:59:50 <oskari89> Yes, that Dr18 has modern AC alternator with rectification
17:00:28 <Alberth> moin pm, between all the engines here :)
17:01:11 <sim-al2> Generators were reaching the peak of practical design, and some locomotives like the GP30 had very complex electrical systems to achieve their maximum power output
17:01:15 * drac_boy pokes sim-a12 (hi american)
17:02:42 <Alberth> he's clearly not sleeping :p
17:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: maybe i would, if anybody ever called me that :p
17:10:10 <drac_boy> and sim-a12 mm .. I don't mind no dc generator .. I still prefer all-dc electricals tho, but to our own :)
17:14:40 <drac_boy> alberth well I guess you've found someone who is sleeping then? ;)
17:17:07 <planetmaker> hehe, hiding successfully, I guess
17:25:12 <sim-al2> The GP30s either got scrapped or converted to alternators because the systems were unreliable with age
17:47:15 <drac_boy> anyway going for now as usual :)
18:08:59 <Mazur> Surreal. I'm following a train with it's window lining up to the map.
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18:43:01 <andythenorth> can someone figure out how I can export seafood in a FIRS economy, ta
19:45:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27453 trunk/src/lang/italian.txt (2015-11-21 19:45:08 +0100 )
19:45:18 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:19 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
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19:59:51 <Alberth> call it "goods" and bring it to a port?
20:07:25 <andythenorth> where’s Eddi when I need him :P
20:18:19 * andythenorth wonders what the vehicle factory should accept
20:18:27 <andythenorth> currently ‘vehicle parts’ and ‘metal’
20:18:32 <andythenorth> seems not enough inputs tbh
20:18:42 <andythenorth> maybe I split ‘vehicle parts’ and ‘tyres'?
20:18:51 <andythenorth> or make it also need manufacturing supplies?
20:22:26 <Alberth> ha,manuf supplies as regular cargo :)
20:22:29 * andythenorth considers a detailed industrieal economy :)
20:22:42 <andythenorth> I wonder about vehicle parts, tyres, mnsp
20:22:52 <andythenorth> for a basic economy, that’s probably enough
21:04:26 <andythenorth> Alberth: think we’ll ever fix Busy Bee repeating goals? o_O
21:06:54 <Alberth> I somewhat collected issues and wishes
21:07:04 <Alberth> if you have others to add, please feel free
21:07:21 <Alberth> as for implementation, not sure what to do; I am considering to start BB2
21:08:05 <andythenorth> v2 is always the best :P
21:08:09 * andythenorth nearly finished FIRS v2
21:08:17 <andythenorth> then started more :P
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21:21:27 <andythenorth> Alberth: I think it would be nice to have a small range of non-cargo goals
21:22:07 <andythenorth> maybe 1-3 other types of goal?
21:22:36 <Alberth> oh, like, make a million? :)
21:22:48 <andythenorth> but the main goals remain cargo transport
21:23:57 <Alberth> hmm, I would know any good such goals, but sure, open a ticket, and make a few suggestions as initial collection or so
21:25:04 <Alberth> Hmm, do you want to open a dbg session on a crashed program? "yeah sure". Ok, please download 1G debug info data :p
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21:47:13 <drac_boy> I have to haze its carrying small fuel supplies on the sides .. and the large shallow pot on roof is where the exhaust got to be :)
21:57:45 <drac_boy> I think I saw that in some magazine just once some time ago but mm you'll have to fill in the blanks yourself tho :)
22:03:02 <drac_boy> dates varies but it would appear to generally be around 1970-1980's
22:16:27 <drac_boy> talk about a bad crumple
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22:35:13 * drac_boy gives tina another beer jug to get tipsy on
22:48:18 <drac_boy> anyway going afk for a bit re slow-cooking supper to make :-s
continue to next day ⏵
